For all those who believe in Christianity or Some form of it...
POSTED BY: RiveR6213
UPDATED: Wednesday, May 23, 2007 10:10
VIEWED: 25834
PAGE 14 of 16
Well, with that I think the posts here in this thread is over. Good one everyone, and have a nice day.
-River
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Quote:
Originally posted by RiveR6213:
You guys it's just a topic. In the end it really means nothing, and is nothing more than words on a screen. Not worth getting into a conflict over.
-River
You trip me out. In a good way.
On the one hand, you talk about nuking all of humanity and completing your "revenge mission against humanity". On the other hand, you worry about Causal and FutureMrsFillion doing each other hurt over a simple matter of semantics...
That's just plain erratic, but in a way, very sweet.
So, I figure you are one (or more) of the following (in no particular order):
1. Not taking your meds as prescribed
2. Really a big softy, but who takes out her frustrations with the day-to-day by fantasizing online that she's an evil bitch
4. Actually an evil bitch, but just can't quite shake the instinct to care about others
12. Able to count much better than I.
In any case, you are very mysterious, in a Mata Hari sort of way; you never knew if she was going to belly-dance or poison everyone's drinks. So you've got that going for you...
Mesmerized-ly,
zoid
P.S.
To Causal:
Are you a successfully married man? How can you possibly be missing all of FMF's cues like this? When a woman says 'no', she means 'NO!'.
Your response makes perfect sense to me, but you must realize that by persisting in questioning her, you are pushing yourself on her in a way that feels like violation, to her.
There comes a time (or a million) when every married man comes up against his wife's steadfast refusal to 'make sense' to our satisfaction. The successfully married man knows when to drop the subject like a hunk o' molten lead and go outside and wash her car (because we are curs for not realizing this sooner). With any sort of luck -- and a proper demeanor of contrition -- she will eventually begin to talk to us again (hopefully, before we get a first-hand answer to the topic of this thread).
Sheesh! Some guys can be so obtuse!
_________________________________________________
"I aim to misbehave." -Capt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity, a.k.a. 'the BDBOF'
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Quote:
Originally posted by zoid:Quote:
Originally posted by RiveR6213:
You guys it's just a topic. In the end it really means nothing, and is nothing more than words on a screen. Not worth getting into a conflict over.
-River
You trip me out. In a good way.
On the one hand, you talk about nuking all of humanity and completing your "revenge mission against humanity". On the other hand, you worry about Causal and FutureMrsFillion doing each other hurt over a simple matter of semantics...
That's just plain erratic, but in a way, very sweet.
So, I figure you are one (or more) of the following (in no particular order):
1. Not taking your meds as prescribed
2. Really a big softy, but who takes out her frustrations with the day-to-day by fantasizing online that she's an evil bitch
4. Actually an evil bitch, but just can't quite shake the instinct to care about others
12. Able to count much better than I.
In any case, you are very mysterious, in a Mata Hari sort of way; you never knew if she was going to belly-dance or poison everyone's drinks. So you've got that going for you...
Mesmerized-ly,
zoid
Erratic?
Yes, I admit that I'm erratic, but It's better than being predictable would you not agree? And yes, I have gone off of my anti-depressants and bipolar medications. Is it that obvious? Also, I would not, or do not see myself as a "Big softy" in any way, shape or form, and yes I am a total, evil bitch, but since this is not a black and white universe even I have layers. Sure I want to nuke humanity into dust, but watching that handsome Casual, and that wonderful FutureMrsFillion go at it the way they were got too me on a personal level. They were also turning a thread that had been humming along quite well for two days into a fight ready to happen that would have tumbled it off into Troll Country, which in a strange way would have bothered me.
I can understand Causal's need to understand where FMF was coming from but she made it clear that for now at least she was not going to give up her hand. Causal's mistake was he attempted to push to get the information to the end. FMF drew a line in the sand and said "This far and no further" and Causal did not heed it. He does not come off as a bad guy in any way...he just seems to think a lot and is VERY opinionated about his thoughts and position, though I do think, and believe in this case he did have good intentions, it didn't produce the result that he was looking for, and it put FMF in a defensive position to justify her belief structure to him, which can seem to come off as an arrogant move and make anyone want to back off from the situation. Over all if allowed to continue would have ended this thread into Troll Country.
Anyhow. I do care about some things in this life even though I'm completely evil. Evil people need love too in case you haven't noticed. Just because I'm going to go to hell doesn't mean that I have lost the capacity to love or have compassion.
The whole Causal and FMF situation was really an empty affair with no winners and no losers. It was just an unfortunate misunderstanding, or that's how I see it, but what do I know?
Thank you for your observation and opinion.
P.S. BTW, the character "Xander" was able to stop Dark Willow from destroying the planet by telling her that he loved her and triggering off that spark of humanity within her. It would not have been the same if I had been all "Juiced up" with Dark magicks, and was dead set on destroying the world. There would have been no one to stop me; not one soul. There would have been no trusting soul that I knew that would show up and say "I love you so I'm going to die with you even though you are about to destroy the world"
I say this to you because I want you to get a clear picture of my mind set. Are we all on the same page now?
And with that said i believe that this thread has concluded itself, and once again thank you everyone for having participated in it.
-River
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Hello Constance, and I agree...this kind of discussion shouldn't ever be, and certainly doesn't have to be nasty on any level, and the obvious truth is that no one will even want to believe something when the person representing it doesn't practice what they preach, and certainly will not want to believe if something is forced on them, or compelled in any way. We all have an innate desire to learn the truth...and the Bible says if we seek God we will find Him. So, it is the questioning, the seeking that is most important. Please never stop.
I know that each person, if they will come to have faith in Christ, will do so when they are meant to, and it can be a completely different set of experiences or turn of events that lead a person there, but I do pray that one day you will come to believe Christ and what He did for the world, for you. It is never too late while you live and I pray you live a long and fruitful life.
Other than my prayers for you and any others who does not believe in Christ...I believe you are a sincere person, from what I have seen, and I only wish you the best that life has to offer.
Take Care and Be Safe!!
Until next time,
God Bless you.
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Sorry, everybody. This seems to be my fault, so before I bow out completely, I'll just say: I'm sorry.
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< decided it was better to let sleeping dogs lie. deleted. >
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Im not the one with the long answers and the most knowledge of these matters. I only know that the only thing I can call myself is an atheist, cause I dont believe in any deity of any kind. It is a belief, but im not shure I would call it a religion... And I didnt arrive at this by a leap of faith.. I have never believed in God, I have never belonged to a church (Im not christened or however you spell it), my parents werent religious. 6 years of saying the lords prayer everyday as a start of the school day, saying grace before lunch and haveing a rather good education when the bible and christianity was concerned did nothing to change that either. I have never felt the need to believe in something higher than myself, I have wanted too cause it seemed so comforting and interesting but no religion gave any ressonance in my heart or "soul" (we can debate the existense of the soul another time). I called myself an agnostic for several years because it seemed so boring and final to call one self an atheist.. but I had to face it in the end.. I dont believe in any god. That does not mean I never will.
But yes atheism is a belief. Noone can be sure. I only believe there is no god, I cant say that I know there is no god.
Constance
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I think that the only way to leave here with any kind of integrity left is to own up to my mistakes. Then, at least, I can have a clear conscience about the thing.
FMF, I was wrong to pursue you with questions--to badger you with them, in fact--when it was clear that you didn't want to talk about it. My motives in doing so are entirely immaterial; I should just have accepted that you didn't want to discuss it and left it at that. I was pushy, and not very sensitive to your desires, and for that I am deeply sorry. I don't know how you're feeling in the aftermath of all this, but I do hope that you can find the grace to forgive my insensitivity.
To the rest of the folks on this thread, I'm sorry that I let things go downhill so very badly. I feel pretty awful about wrecking what was otherwise a pretty nice discussion. Again, motives are entirely immaterial. The fact of the matter is that I let my desire to understand overwhelm my desire to keep the tone of the discussion at a manageable level. I feel terrible for having done so, and I hope that I can receive the grace of forgiveness for it.
--Caleb
________________________________________________________________________
- Grand High Poobah of the Mythical Land of Iowa, and Keeper of State Secrets
- Captain, FFF.net Grammar Police
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Quote:
Originally posted by Constance:Quote:
Originally posted by Kayna:
Wow...
I must say that I am impressed. Even with the differeing viewpoints, everones posts are so coalm and respectful.
I avoided the thread for some time becaus, in my experience, religion threads aren't very pleasant places to be. Even after I checked it out though I refrained from commenting because all of these posts are so well thought out. My thoughts on the subject are not nearly so well organized but I rarely have anyone to discuss them with so that's not a huge surprise. Anyway, my thoughts are a little scattered andI really hope I don't sound trollish at any point but I just working out how to put some of this in words as I type it so please bear with me. Also, forgive me my horrible typing and spelling. Much as I love the written word, I can't seem to master it.
Op: You're fighting a war you've already lost.
Mal: Yeah, well I'm known for that.
isn't it nice though? To be able to discuss these things in an orderly and civil manner? I'm so happy to be able to converse with these wonderful and intelligent people.
And raidok: If I ever find myself believing in some higher power I will stand for that too. I am a very proud person (one of my sins) but I'm not as proud that I cant admit to a change in beliefs. I'm not sure I will seek out faith. Faith being what it is it will come to me I think. I do not know what is holding me back from as you say accepting the freedom offered by Christ, except me being a very materialistic person (not in the I love things and stuff way, but the other kind) and frightfully independent. Those two combined makes it hard to believe in anything
Constance
I wouldn't actually call myself religious, nor do I consider myself a Christian. I think you can believe some aspects of a religion without actually believing in that religion. I'm not certain when I picked up all the Heaven and Hell stuff, but it seems to feel right based on how I see humanity as a whole and it's collective behaviors, plus my own contribution to this half-way house of a place we like to call Earth. The whole idea of Heaven and Hell seems about right, though I can't prove any of it.
The whole idea of the Christian God and his son who is God at the same time plus them both being this holy spirit is a little confusing, but there is no way that I can accept that this God has my best interest in mind. Taking a nice look at this world, and I can easily see that if there is a god, he's out taking lunch and forgot to come back. I don't believe that this Christian God watches over his creations and protects them at all. There may be a God because this is a big universe, but I suspect if there is one that God creates things and then move on. Perhaps Earth is just another toy lost under the bed?
Whenever the subject of Christianity comes up people are quick to say that you have "choices" as the foundation of their argument, and the second saying I hear over and over again is that you have to have "faith." The latter is the one that gets thrown around a lot when someone asks a very difficult to answer question of the Christian, and when the Christian can't answer it they say "You must have faith!"
I started this thread to see what people had to say regarding Heaven and Hell. To answer the question one didn't need to believe in the Christian religion. It was more of a IF YOU DID believe in the idea of heaven and hell, which one would you end up in based on your actions, behaviors, world views, or acts of mercy, kindness, or cruelty that you have demonstrated in your life? This wasn't a topic for debating ideological, or theological theories and ideas. It simply was a "Where do you think you are going based on the Judeo-Christian religion?"
Its amazing how we can sometimes take a simple question and transform it into an ego match. don't get me wrong. I myself have been guilty of just this sort of thing in the past so I am not passing judgment on anyone.
Any way. I have this 5 alarm h
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Quote:
Originally posted by Causal:
I think that the only way to leave here with any kind of integrity left is to own up to my mistakes. Then, at least, I can have a clear conscience about the thing.
FMF, I was wrong to pursue you with questions--to badger you with them, in fact--when it was clear that you didn't want to talk about it. My motives in doing so are entirely immaterial; I should just have accepted that you didn't want to discuss it and left it at that. I was pushy, and not very sensitive to your desires, and for that I am deeply sorry. I don't know how you're feeling in the aftermath of all this, but I do hope that you can find the grace to forgive my insensitivity.
To the rest of the folks on this thread, I'm sorry that I let things go downhill so very badly. I feel pretty awful about wrecking what was otherwise a pretty nice discussion. Again, motives are entirely immaterial. The fact of the matter is that I let my desire to understand overwhelm my desire to keep the tone of the discussion at a manageable level. I feel terrible for having done so, and I hope that I can receive the grace of forgiveness for it.
--Caleb
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Causal,
You and MrsFutureFillion didn't wreck the thread or take the interest out of this thread; the thread itself is not wrecked. When I was thanking everyone for joining the thread that was for my own benefit. It meant that I was going to move on to either make another thread, or chat it up in someone else's subject thread.
FutureMrsFillion and yourself did nothing wrong but have a disagreement on certain points. Like none of us are guilty that??? I think this thread was winding down anyway because everyone said what they felt they needed to say. If people feel they need to say more in this thread they will, so save your guilt and remorse for something better like if you accidentally run over your next door neighbors cat with your car.
With that I am going to go out.
-River
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