Real World Event Discussions
The Definition of Hyprocracy
POSTED BY: Redlava
UPDATED: Sunday, December 31, 2006 14:57
VIEWED: 5835
PAGE 3 of 7
Saturday, December 23, 2006 9:57 AM
Or suing a gun company when their product works and successfully kills someone.
Or making Dow and Monsanto pay out money to the vets sprayed by Agent Orange, when really they just developed an effective product and the government exercised the option to broadly use it.
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Wisconsin sucks. I don't want to be here.
~Forsaken Forever
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Saturday, December 23, 2006 10:16 AM
Quote:No they don't, I'm not American so how could the US Federal Trade commission disagree with my memory of events I didn't witness? How do you mean they were marketed to children under the certification age? Adverts during Childrens programs on TV, in games magazine aimed at Children, saying "Buy it if your under age"? What were they're criteria? I ask because of all the people most guilty for blaming games for their own failings Government commissions are right up there with neglective parents.
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
Well, the US Federal Trade Commission disagrees with your memory. According to a 2000 study they found that most video games with a mature rating are marketed to children under 17.
Quote:More adults buy games than Children. So obviously children aren't the largest Audiance.
But the real problem is that people don’t care. The software developers and retailers just want to sell their product to the largest audience who will buy it and in many cases that means children.
Quote:I'm curious as to how a Parents neglect is the fault of the game?
And many parents are just happy to plant their children down in front of a computer to keep them quiet and out of their hair.
More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.
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Saturday, December 23, 2006 10:35 AM
Quote:You’ll have to take that up with the FTC.
Originally posted by citizen:
No they don't, I'm not American so how could the US Federal Trade commission disagree with my memory of events I didn't witness? How do you mean they were marketed to children under the certification age? Adverts during Childrens programs on TV, in games magazine aimed at Children, saying "Buy it if your under age"? What were they're criteria? I ask because of all the people most guilty for blaming games for their own failings Government commissions are right up there with neglective parents.
http://www.ftc.gov/reports/violence/vioreport.pdf
Quote:Oh, well in that case, I guess there’s no children buying mature video games.
Originally posted by citizen:
More adults buy games than Children. So obviously children aren't the largest Audiance.
Quote:Why does it have to be the fault of the game? The parent’s neglect is sufficient.
Originally posted by citizen:
I'm curious as to how a Parents neglect is the fault of the game?
Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.
Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.
-- Cicero
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Saturday, December 23, 2006 10:53 AM
Quote:The Link is sufficient, the sarcy reply is not.
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
You’ll have to take that up with the FTC.
http://www.ftc.gov/reports/violence/vioreport.pdf
Quote:You said the largest audience were children, implying certificated games are defiantly marketed to children because they were the largest audience. I pointed out that adults are in fact the largest audience, I didn't say children didn't buy games, please don't set me up as a strawman for you to tear down. If you could refrain from the childish sarcasm when you have no rhetorical response I'd really appreciate it as well.
Oh, well in that case, I guess there’s no children buying mature video games.
Quote:I believe that's my point, you are the one implying the blame is with the games and there developers, not I.
Why does it have to be the fault of the game? The parent’s neglect is sufficient.
More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.
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Saturday, December 23, 2006 11:19 AM
Quote:You’ll get over it.
Originally posted by citizen:
The Link is sufficient, the sarcy reply is not.
Quote:That adults may be a large audience for many games doesn’t mean children aren’t a very large segment of the market, and in fact in some cases they may even be a larger segment of the market. Nonetheless, the developers and the retailers are largely only interested in selling their product to as many people as will buy it, and that does often mean children.
Originally posted by citizen:
You said the largest audience were children, implying certificated games are defiantly marketed to children because they were the largest audience. I pointed out that adults are in fact the largest audience, I didn't say children didn't buy games, please don't set me up as a strawman for you to tear down. If you could refrain from the childish sarcasm when you have no rhetorical response I'd really appreciate it as well.
Report From The NPD Group Shows 45 Percent Of Heavy Video Gamers Are In The Six - To 17-Year-Old Age Group
http://www.npd.com/press/releases/press_060919a.html
Quote:I think I quite clearly laid the blame on the marketing and the parents. But regardless of who is to blame, the developers made the game to be violent, the marketers advertise it to children and the retailers sell it, largely, without regard for the age of the costumer. So the blame doesn’t lie solely on the parents. In the end, the real problem, as I said earlier, is the apathy. From one side to other, no one cares, and that includes the software developers, the marketers and the retailers.
Originally posted by citizen:
I believe that's my point, you are the one implying the blame is with the games and there developers, not I.
Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.
Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.
-- Cicero
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Saturday, December 23, 2006 12:01 PM
Quote:Well since sarcastic comments are okay, at least you're capable of discussing things maturely.
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
You’ll get over it.
Quote:I pointed out the adult market was larger than the child market, which was you're assertion. You respond by trying to set me up as a strawman and throwing around sarcastic comments, alarm bells are ringing.
That adults may be a large audience for many games
Quote:Was never my assertion, I asked you once to stop straw manning my argument, now I'm asking again. You can either acquiesce or show yourself up.
doesn’t mean children aren’t a very large segment of the market,
Quote:Like in games aimed at children? Like say Petz for instance?
and in fact in some cases they may even be a larger segment of the market.
Quote:From your earlier link:
Nonetheless, the developers and the retailers are largely only interested in selling their product to as many people as will buy it, and that does often mean children.
Unlike the movie and music recording industries, the electronic game industry does prohibit
marketing targeted to children under the age suggested in the game’s rating. Since 1995, the
IDSA Adcode has barred industry members from “specifically target(ing) advertising . . . for
entertainment software products rated Teen, Mature, or Adults Only to consumers for whom the
product is not rated as appropriate.”
So the Computer Games industry is better than either the Music or Film industry, so what makes the games industry so special to be singled out for the most derision?
Quote:It doesn't mean they're playing 'M' rated games, you're jumping around between 'M' rated and all games as if they're the same.
Report From The NPD Group Shows 45 Percent Of Heavy Video Gamers Are In The Six - To 17-Year-Old Age Group
http://www.npd.com/press/releases/press_060919a.html
Quote:Did you really, well that's all right then.
I think I quite clearly laid the blame on the marketing and the parents.
Quote:If a parent buys their child a game clear marked as rated beyond their age group and allows them to play it then responsibility is solely with the parent.
But regardless of who is to blame, the developers made the game to be violent, the marketers advertise it to children and the retailers sell it, largely, without regard for the age of the costumer. So the blame doesn’t lie solely on the parents.
Quote:I don't think anything should be advertised to anyone without personal buying power, which would include toys and video games for children, having said that the only people resoncible for bring up your children is you. Scapegoats need not apply.
From one side to other, no one cares, and that includes the software developers, the marketers and the retailers.
More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.
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Saturday, December 23, 2006 12:19 PM
Quote:Who said it was being singled out?
Originally posted by citizen:
So the Computer Games industry is better than either the Music or Film industry, so what makes the games industry so special to be singled out for the most derision?
Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.
Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.
-- Cicero
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Saturday, December 23, 2006 12:27 PM
Quote:They're singled out all the time, and I rather suspect you know that. Much of this very discussion is a testamount to that. I don't see anyone questioning Films or Music here, or in any other thread ever created in the RWED or on any other board I have frequented at all and certainly with no where near the voraciousness leveled at computer games.
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
Who said it was being singled out?
More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.
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Saturday, December 23, 2006 1:07 PM
Quote:My first post in this thread questioned violence in TV, and I’ve criticized violence on TV several times on this board. And I’ve seen films and music, particularly music, criticized for its violent content all the time in the news.
Originally posted by citizen:
They're singled out all the time, and I rather suspect you know that. Much of this very discussion is a testamount to that. I don't see anyone questioning Films or Music here, or in any other thread ever created in the RWED or on any other board I have frequented at all and certainly with no where near the voraciousness leveled at computer games.
Also this is the only time I’ve seen video games criticize for violence on this board, but this thread wasn’t even intended as a criticism of video games, as much as a criticism of Christians. So I don’t know what you’re talking about.
Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.
Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.
-- Cicero
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Saturday, December 23, 2006 1:39 PM
Quote:You mentioned the word TV once, in a post that dealt with games near exclusively, furthermore how:
Originally posted by Finn Mac Cuhmal:
My first post in this thread questioned violence in TV
Quote:Can be seen as a criticism is utterly beyond me.
I like this new trend towards realistic images in TV
Quote:I don't recall seeing a news story about how a film or music made someone kill a bunch of people. Pretty much every time something like that happens the finger is pointed at games.
And I’ve seen films and music, particularly music, criticized for its violent content all the time in the news.
Quote:Because no thread ever goes off topic in the RWED? I said much of this thread, indicating the content not necessarily the first post. Maybe you'd like to reread what most of the content of this thread has been about since you're having trouble with this.
Also this is the only time I’ve seen video games criticize for violence on this board, but this thread wasn’t even intended as a criticism of video games, as much as a criticism of Christians.
Quote:I said much of this thread is talking about how bad video games and their marketing is, and it is, plainly so. Why do you act like you don't know this?
So I don’t know what you’re talking about.
Quote:Like I said, since when has a thread in the RWED stayed on topic, I know you know this, so I'm at a loss to explain why you feign ignorance of this fact here.
but this thread wasn’t even intended as a criticism of video games, as much as a criticism of Christians.
I think the major problem here is how often Christian groups are damning violent video games, I imagine Cartoon is often nodding along to these sentiments too. However when the game includes a Christian message there's not a peep, and indeed Cartoon pops up to defend the game. That would be hypocrisy.
GTA may be more violent, I don't know I haven't played this game, however I do know that GTA does not moralise the violence within it. You could argue it desensitises to violence, but not that it makes it moral. In fact not many games do moralise killing, save the one here, which makes killing non-Christians a moral, even 'good' act as long as you do a bit of prayer to the Christian God afterwards. That's a pretty fundamental difference.
I wonder what the reaction to a game aimed at Muslims, where the player has to destroy the followers of Satan, would be like if it justified the killing of people as long as you whipped out the prayer mat afterwards?
More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.
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