Renouncing my ways...
POSTED BY: deepgirl187
UPDATED: Thursday, October 19, 2006 08:18
VIEWED: 18012
PAGE 7 of 13
Thanks, sweetserendipity. 
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"See, this is a sign of your tragic space dementia. All paranoid and crotchety, it breaks the heart."
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Who needs drugs when you have Joss?
I enthusiastically devoured the latest episodes of Buffy (I'm on the first disc of season 3). It seems that Joss was finally able to start handling more adult themes with this season (at least moreso than he had before).
There was only one beef I had with the new season. When Buffy returned home, almost everyone treated her as if she had stabbed them in the back by leaving. It was like everything she went through didn't matter (granted, no one knew about Angel at first). Maybe leaving wasn't the best thing to do, but I can see why she chose to. She was kicked out of school, thrown out of her house, and she killed her boyfriend. If I were in her position, I'd feel like I had nothing left. But instead of having some empathy for what she went through, everyone (except Oz and Giles) was more concerned about what she did to them. More than a little unfair, if you ask me.
On a lighter note, Faith seems pretty cool. Of course, knowing Joss, I'm probably going to be very wrong about this.
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"See, this is a sign of your tragic space dementia. All paranoid and crotchety, it breaks the heart."
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I totally agree DeepGirl! The scoobie gang should have taken it easy on her - they should trust her enough to know she wouldn't run away for no reason.
I'm really enjoying reliving the Buffy experience thru your posts! So much goodness still to come for you... And Faith just keeps getting better, IMO.
Good lord, SweetSerendipity - where did you get that shirtless Spike picture? Yikes, and add more drooling here!
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I'm the president. I don't need to listen.
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Quote:
Originally posted by christhecynic:
[Angel represents protection and redemption, Buffy represents vengance and destruction.
Interesting observations. I dont disagree...but I find it interesting that in my opinion, Angel is a much 'darker' show, and character, which is in direct contrast to how you have just summed up the characters. Hmmmm
Also - on the original topic, I think you will find the series 'matures' as the characters do. I remember it changed timeslots when
Select to view spoiler:
Buffy first slept with Angel
And the later series are much darker, and more mature storylines. And yet I love some of the 'fun' scenes in the early series. One of my favourite scenes is "Hey, Juice!..." 'macho macho man...' just cos its silly.
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its lots of fun hearing your posts as you discover Buffy - that was my first love in the jossverse, and I think I have to agree with the earlier statement, that although I belive firefly is better and I fell in love with the characters, there are 7 shiny seasons of buffy plu 5 of angel - all of which I have on dvd....
I am happy to rewatch things over and over...but 14 episodes doesnt last very long. :(
Hey, on another note, Bones starts here in australia this week, and I had no idea David was in it. I will tune in now I know.
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Firefly is still my first love as well, and always will be. My mother, who has been watching Buffy with me, does not share the same sentiments, unfortunately. She just can't see the genius that is Firefly. And yet, I can have extensive discussions with her about Buffy. I don't know why it is that people can't be as attached to Firefly as they are to other shows in the Joss-verse.
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"See, this is a sign of your tragic space dementia. All paranoid and crotchety, it breaks the heart."
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Geez Deb! Between the coffee I just spit all over my desk and the subsequent drooling - I'd say that picture of Spike is gonna cost me a new keyboard - but hey - the boss will understand after she is done cleaning up her own coffee!
Can I have one of those while I await my BDH?
We are The Forsaken - We aim to burn! and we don't need no stinkin levels!
one of the Forsaken TM
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FMF, absolutely! Did you really kill a keyboard?
Mal4Prez, I stole...um,borrowed them all on photobucket. Feel free to copy and paste,y'all!
From season 6, 
Deb
http://serendipityagain.com/
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Quote:
Originally posted by SuzFromOz:Quote:
Originally posted by christhecynic:
Angel represents protection and redemption, Buffy represents vengance and destruction.
Interesting observations. I dont disagree...but I find it interesting that in my opinion, Angel is a much 'darker' show, and character, which is in direct contrast to how you have just summed up the characters. Hmmmm
I've tried to type this post more than a few times but I haven't been satisfied with it. What I want to say is simple:
I don't think Angel being darker is in contrast to what I said I think it is instead the reason for it.
The problem is that I also want to explain why I think that.
I guess the first thing is that where (in my opinion) Buffy often acts out of vengance Angel acts out of a desire for redemption. Well the lightest character in the world could act out of vengance, you just hurt them, someone they care about, something they care about, or convince them that there is a wrong that must be avenged.
But to want to be redeemed means that the character must have personally done something wrong. It isn't, "Hello, my name is Inigo Montoya, you killed my father, prepare to die," it is instead, "Hello, my name is Count Rugen, I've killed a lot of people and taken joy in it, what can I do to wash away the guilt and pain." You need a dark character if he or she is going to be redeemed.
Then there's a question of protection vs. destruction. Destruction is something we show to kids in large quantities, "Hey look there's the hero killing off the bad guys and saving the day," whether you think we should or should not let kids watch such things you have to admit that we don't consider the topic all that dark.
On the other hand watch a movie about someone being stalked, or tortured, or simply kept in a hole waiting to be killed, and all of a sudden it's dark and disturbing.
It doesn't matter that 500 people died so the hero could save the world in the first movie where the only one in the second movie to die was the bad guy, it doesn't matter if the one being stalked is never even in pain in the second movie. When you're killing the bad guys you're just seeing the bad guys, and they're dying, which is good. When you're protecting someone you're seeing the victim, you're seeing their pain, whether it is physical or mental, and their fear, you're seeing what it is that makes the bad guys worthy of death, and that is far darker than simply killing those same bad guys.
Redemption and protection, which I believe Angel to be about, are inherently dark topics because for them to exist there must be darkness in plain sight.
How many times have you seen something where it says, "Worse than Hitler,"? I've seen it in a lot of movies and I have to say it means nothing, you hear that, see a bad guy, he loses, all are happy. Nothing dark at all. That's not a problem for me because I like lighter movies as well as darker ones, more so most of the time.
But if it is the other way around, if instead of killing the bad guy who is, "Worse than Hitler," you are saving the person in one of his camps all of a sudden that means something, not the words which are still hollow and empty, but now, because you are saving a victim, you see what makes the person worse than Hitler. The movie, book, comic, or whatever has to take you into the concentration camp and show you the horrors that are there because it focuses on the one in pain, not the one causing it.
That different focus, the difference between the one causing the pain and the one in the pain, is what it all comes down to. If you're killing the pain causer you need not see the pain itself, you can see it, but there isn't a need. If you're saving the one doing the suffering you have to see the suffering, you don't have a choice about it, and that makes for a darker tv show.
It also makes for a character more likely to decide, "This isn't working, I'll ditch morality for a while," because he isn't saying, "Today was a good day,
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i certaibly dont disagree with you at all. I guess I was thinking of an 'at first glance' kind of observation, you would expect something full of death to be darker, but I entirely can see your point.
Then of course there is season 3 or 4 (?not sure) of Angel - when he definately is about more than just protection, or redemption....
And to my mind, thats even darker, because there is a chance that he has lost himself....
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