Ocasio-Cortez' wish-list
POSTED BY: SIGNYM
UPDATED: Friday, October 14, 2022 12:42
VIEWED: 26648
PAGE 1 of 4
Well, what is right with this wish-list, and what's wrong with it?
Before I pick this apart, I'm going to repeat my criticism of Venezuela, which has fallen apart in the most horrible ways.
When Chavez came to power he nationalized the oil industry, and used that oil wealth to "help" people: medical care and housing and food subsidies and education for "poor people". Now, these services are vital and - in a some cases (imho) the correct purview of government. But ...
The problem was that when oil prices fell, the Venezuelan government didn't have enough of an economy to take its place, and didn't have enough money to continue providing those services. IN ADDITION, the vast amounts of money flowing through the government to support these services led to a tremendous amount of corruption in government (and the military), so whatever money and goods were left after collapse were unfairly and inefficiently distributed. And since people had become dependent on government handouts, there were no alternate resources built up. And with sanctions on top of that, even with ginormous loans from China and help from Russia, Venezuela has become a clusterfuck.
I think you see where I'm going with this ...
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND
America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876
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Quote:Transcribing:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
1. Medicare for all.
2. Housing as a human right.
3. A Federal jobs guarantee.
4. Gun control / assault weapons ban.
5. Criminal Justice Reform, end private prisons.
6. Immigration justice / abolish ICE.
7. Solidarity with Puerto Rico.
8. Mobilizing against climate change.
9. Clean campaign finance.
10. Higher education For all.
11. Women's rights.
12. Support LGBTQIA+.
13. Support seniors.
14. Curb wall Street gambling: restore glass steagal.
I might be able to get behind #5. But she will certainly not have a solution.
But why are these missing:
Climate Justice.
Men's Rights.
Universal Government Handouts, Dependency on The Nanny State for All.
Federal Income Guarantee.
Federal Hot Wife/Boytoy Guarantee.
Federal Phone Guarantee.
Federal Cable Guarantee.
Federal Car Guarantee.
Support heteros.
Basic Education for All.
And won't mobilizing create more pollution?
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She is truly one of the stupidest people on the planet.
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You forgot her wish that the Commie Fairies will bring her the rent she needs for her new apartment.
Do Right, Be Right. :)
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Thanks for the transcription.
Quote:Yes. But. It needs reform on how services are paid (I've been told that Medicare pays for each procedure eg "skin ulcer debridement", which doesn't reward doctors for treating the whole patient and root causes of disease eg "weight loss for diabetic control") plus it needs to be better-funded and it needs to negotiate better drug prices.
1. Medicare for all.
Quote:Not possible. How can the government possibly fund this during real estate bubbles?
2. Housing as a human right.
Quote:Great!!
3. A Federal jobs guarantee.
FUNDING???
Quote:Universal registration.
4. Gun control / assault weapons ban.
Quote:This I can agree with.
5. Criminal Justice Reform, end private prisons.
Quote:Good grief. Do you really want another exhaustive explanation how uncontrolled immigration is bad for us?
6. Immigration justice / abolish ICE.
Quote:"Solidarity". What the hell does THAT mean? Either offer PR statehood or cut them loose (gently, over time).
7. Solidarity with Puerto Rico.
Quote:"Mobilizing". ANOTHER fudgeword! Climate change needs to be addressed, both to mitigate the causes and to brace for effects.
8. Mobilizing against climate change.
Quote:I've never seen campaign finance reform work. Instead, require broadcasters, web-casters, and printed media to donate a certain amount of time (or space) to each viable candidate, reverse Citizen's United, and get rid of political parties.
9. Clean campaign finance.
Quote:Why? Not everyone is college material. Not everyone "needs" a "higher" education. But people SHOULD be trained in either school or the trades.
10. Higher education For all.
Quote:Equal rights for everyone. Calling out specific right for some leaves the impression that others will be denied theirs.
11. Women's rights.
12. Support LGBTQIA+.
13. Support seniors.
Quote:I can agree with this one. Dodd-Frank is so complex it disadvantages smaller banks. I would also add: Have the government print its own money instead of borrowing it from The Fed (a private institution) and require 100% banking reserve. That would eliminate a lot of speculative lending.
14. Curb wall Street gambling: restore glass steagal.
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND
America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876
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Quote:Isn't that really the Socialist Fairy?
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
You forgot her wish that the Commie Fairies will bring her the rent she needs for her new apartment.
Do Right, Be Right. :)
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Quote:Register every single Steak Knife, Box Cutter, Musket? I don't believe registering Cannon would even withstand the Michigan State Constitution.
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Thanks for the transcription.Quote:Yes. But. It needs reform on how services are paid (I've been told that Medicare pays for each procedure eg "skin ulcer debridement", which doesn't reward doctors for treating the whole patient and root causes of disease eg "weight loss for diabetic control") plus it needs to be better-funded and it needs to negotiate better drug prices.
1. Medicare for all.Quote:Not possible. How can the government possibly fund this during real estate bubbles?
2. Housing as a human right.Quote:Great!!
3. A Federal jobs guarantee.
FUNDING???Quote:Universal registration.
4. Gun control / assault weapons ban.
Quote:Sounds like the old Equal Time Doctrine,where the Liberal candidate gets 24/7 unpaid support and endorsements while any other candidate needed to pay in 15 second increments for " equal Time" in the media.Quote:This I can agree with.
5. Criminal Justice Reform, end private prisons.Quote:Good grief. Do you really want another exhaustive explanation how uncontrolled immigration is bad for us?
6. Immigration justice / abolish ICE.Quote:"Solidarity". What the hell does THAT mean? Either offer PR statehood or cut them loose (gently, over time).
7. Solidarity with Puerto Rico.Quote:"Mobilizing". ANOTHER fudgeword! Climate change needs to be addressed, both to mitigate the causes and to brace for effects.
8. Mobilizing against climate change.Quote:I've never seen campaign finance reform work. Instead, require broadcasters, web-casters, and printed media to donate a certain amount of time (or space) to each viable candidate, reverse Citizen's United, and get rid of political parties.
9. Clean campaign finance.
Quote:What other purpose do we have for College Grads who cannot read or write or add or multiply? The whole reason for Dept of Educamation is to provide 8 years worth of training in only 16 years of schooling.
Quote:Why? Not everyone is college material. Not everyone "needs" a "higher" education. But people SHOULD be trained in either school or the trades.
10. Higher education For all.
Quote:The Wisconsin Special Rights Act of 1986 worked out well enough, it made Madison the Gay & Lesbian Capital of the World within only 2 years, and got heterosexuals thrown into the hoosgow.Quote:Equal rights for everyone. Calling out specific right for some leaves the impression that others will be denied theirs.
11. Women's rights.
12. Support LGBTQIA+.
13. Support seniors.
Quote:Quote:I can agree with this one. Dodd-Frank is so complex it disadvantages smaller banks. I would also add: Have the government print its own money instead of borrowing it from The Fed (a private institution) and require 100% banking reserve. That would eliminate a lot of speculative lending.
14. Curb wall Street gambling: restore glass steagal.
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Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:Quote:Isn't that really the Socialist Fairy?
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
You forgot her wish that the Commie Fairies will bring her the rent she needs for her new apartment.
Do Right, Be Right. :)
Potato, potato.
Do Right, Be Right. :)
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Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
1. Medicare for all.
Yes. But. It needs reform on how services are paid (I've been told that Medicare pays for each procedure eg "skin ulcer debridement", which doesn't reward doctors for treating the whole patient and root causes of disease eg "weight loss for diabetic control") plus it needs to be better-funded and it needs to negotiate better drug prices.
Single Payer. With prices is big bold numbers for different procedures as if you were ordering an extra value meal at McDonalds too.
Quote:
2. Housing as a human right.
Not possible. How can the government possibly fund this during real estate bubbles?
Maybe we should ask Putin?
Quote:
3. A Federal jobs guarantee.
Great!!
FUNDING???
Maybe we should ask Putin?
Quote:
4. Gun control / assault weapons ban.
Universal registration.
I disagree. And so will millions of Americans who preserve their right to bear arms in the case our government becomes tyrannical.
Guns aren't the problem. There were tons of guns around before all these shootings started happening. I'd start looking into pharmaceuticals first if the actual end result that the government wants to see is the shootings to stop.
Quote:
5. Criminal Justice Reform, end private prisons. This I can agree with.
I'm 100% on board with this, and I have been for many, many years.
Quote:
6. Immigration justice / abolish ICE. Good grief. Do you really want another exhaustive explanation how uncontrolled immigration is bad for us?
To add to this, how do you think this list would have read if this one was at the top, right above free healthcare, housing and jobs for everybody?
... including Illegals.
Quote:
7. Solidarity with Puerto Rico.
"Solidarity". What the hell does THAT mean? Either offer PR statehood or cut them loose (gently, over time).
This doesn't mean anything. It's a feel good buzz word. Puerto Rico is largely in control if they're going to be a state or not. They never pushed for it before because they have the best of both worlds. I don't believe they want statehood now either, but they'll bitch and moan and cry racism when we don't save their non-tax-paying asses when disaster strikes.
Quote:
8. Mobilizing against climate change."Mobilizing". ANOTHER fudgeword! Climate change needs to be addressed, both to mitigate the causes and to brace for effects.
Another bullshit feel good expression.
I'm totally on board with this though. I'd love to put solar up all over my house if it didn't cost a fortune for the panels still.
Quote:
9. Clean campaign finance.I've never seen campaign finance reform work. Instead, require broadcasters, web-casters, and printed media to donate a certain amount of time (or space) to each viable candidate, reverse Citizen's United, and get rid of political parties.
Another bullshit wish here. Sure... we'd all love for this to happen. Hundreds and perhaps even thousands of politicians have promised it in the past to get elected. It will never happen. Never.
Quote:
10. Higher education For all. Why? Not everyone is college material. Not everyone "needs" a "higher" education. But people SHOULD be trained in either school or the trades.
Oh... more communist freebies?
Quote:
11. Women's rights.
12. Support LGBTQIA+.
13. Support seniors.
Equal rights for everyone. Calling out specific right for some leaves the impression that others will be denied theirs.
100% Agree.
Quote:
14. Curb wall Street gambling: restore glass steagal.
I can agree with this one. Dodd-Frank is so complex it disadvantages smaller banks. I would also add: Have the government print its own money instead of borrowing it from The Fed (a private institution) and require 100% banking reserve. That would eliminate a lot of speculative lending.[/qNOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
1. Medicare for all.
Yes. But. It needs reform on how services are paid (I've been told that Medicare pays for each procedure eg "skin ulcer debridement", which doesn't reward doctors for treating the whole patient and root causes of disease eg "weight loss for diabetic control") plus it needs to be better-funded and it needs to negotiate better drug prices.
Single Payer. With prices is big bold numbers for different procedures as if you were ordering an extra value meal at McDonalds too.Quote:
2. Housing as a human right.
Not possible. How can the government possibly fund this during real estate bubbles?
Maybe we should ask Putin?
Quote:
3. A Federal jobs guarantee.
Great!!
FUNDING???
Maybe we should ask Putin?Quote:
4. Gun control / assault weapons ban.
Universal registration.
I disagree. And so will millions of Americans who preserve their right to bear arms in the case our government becomes tyrannical.
Guns aren't the problem. There were tons of guns around before all these shootings started happening. I'd start looking into pharmaceuticals first if the actual end result that the government wants to see is the shootings to stop.Quote:
5. Criminal Justice Reform, end private prisons. This I can agree with.
I'm 100% on board with this, and I have been for many, many years.Quote:
6. Immigration justice / abolish ICE. Good grief. Do you really want another exhaustive explanation how uncontrolled immigration is bad for us?
To add to this, how do you think this list would have read if this one was at the top, right above free healthcare, housing and jobs for everybody?
... including Illegals.Quote:
7. Solidarity with Puerto Rico.
"Solidarity". What the hell does THAT mean? Either offer PR statehood or cut them loose (gently, over time).
This doesn't mean anything. It's a feel good buzz word. Puerto Rico is largely in control if they're going to be a state or not. They never pushed for it before because they have the best of both worlds. I don't believe they want statehood now either, but they'll bitch and moan and cry racism when we don't save their non-tax-paying asses when disaster strikes.Quote:
8. Mobilizing against climate change."Mobilizing". ANOTHER fudgeword! Climate change needs to be addressed, both to mitigate the causes and to brace for effects.
Another bullshit feel good expression.
I'm totally on board with this though. I'd love to put solar up all over my house if it didn't cost a fortune for the panels still.Quote:
9. Clean campaign finance.I've never seen campaign finance reform work. Instead, require broadcasters, web-casters, and printed media to donate a certain amount of time (or space) to each viable candidate, reverse Citizen's United, and get rid of political parties.
Another bullshit wish here. Sure... we'd all love for this to happen. Hundreds and perhaps even thousands of politicians have promised it in the past to get elected. It will never happen. Never.
Quote:
10. Higher education For all. Why? Not everyone is college material. Not everyone "needs" a "higher" education. But people SHOULD be trained in either school or the trades.
Oh... more communist freebies?Quote:
11. Women's rights.
12. Support LGBTQIA+.
13. Support seniors.
Equal rights for everyone. Calling out specific right for some leaves the impression that others will be denied theirs.
100% Agree.Quote:
14. Curb wall Street gambling: restore glass steagal.
I can agree with this one. Dodd-Frank is so complex it disadvantages smaller banks. I would also add: Have the government print its own money instead of borrowing it from The Fed (a private institution) and require 100% banking reserve. That wNOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by captaincrunch:
You have an open bold bracket code boy (I've chosen not to fix it in this post).
Once again, something I'm not going to apologize for since this is due to replying on this ancient website which makes quotes needlessly a chore in 2018, and not due to an intentional and/or idiotic oversight when putting in a stupid tag at the end of every post I make.
Keep backing up your retarded friend. I find it very funny.
Do Right, Be Right. :)
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Quote:
1. Medicare for all.
SIGNYM: Yes. But. It needs reform on how services are paid (I've been told that Medicare pays for each procedure eg "skin ulcer debridement", which doesn't reward doctors for treating the whole patient and root causes of disease eg "weight loss for diabetic control") plus it needs to be better-funded and it needs to negotiate better drug prices.
6IXSTRINGJACK: Single Payer. With prices is big bold numbers for different procedures as if you were ordering an extra value meal at McDonalds too.
1kiki: I agree single-payer, with medical personnel including doctors receiving a yearly salary instead of getting reimbursed by piecework; and vigorous drug price negotiations. As it is now, doctors are 'upcoding' (your hacking cough becomes viral pneumonia and asthma with the stroke of a pen) in order to get reimbursed to the level they think is necessary. I don't think prices matter in terms of usage either. One of the things that is sinking 'Obamacare' is simply the scale of unmet need which is driving usage. Even shoveling healthy young'uns and their premiums into the system couldn't create enough income to offset the burden of existing need. I don't see single-payer reducing usage rates until most people have had their medical issues either resolved or turned into unremarkable chronically managed items.
Quote:
2. Housing as a human right.
SIGNYM: Not possible. How can the government possibly fund this during real estate bubbles?
6IXSTRINGJACK: Maybe we should ask Putin?
1kiki: Do you have an 'in' with him?
Quote:
3. A Federal jobs guarantee.
SIGNYM: Great!! FUNDING???
6IXSTRINGJACK: Maybe we should ask Putin?
1kiki: How about we re-purpose the army?
Quote:
4. Gun control / assault weapons ban.
SIGNYM: Universal registration.
JEWELSTAITEFAN: Register every single Steak Knife, Box Cutter, Musket? I don't believe registering Cannon would even withstand the Michigan State Constitution.
6IXSTRINGJACK: I disagree. And so will millions of Americans who preserve their right to bear arms in the case our government becomes tyrannical.
Guns aren't the problem. There were tons of guns around before all these shootings started happening. I'd start looking into pharmaceuticals first if the actual end result that the government wants to see is the shootings to stop.
Quote:
5. Criminal Justice Reform, end private prisons.
SIGNYM: This I can agree with.
6IXSTRINGJACK: I'm 100% on board with this, and I have been for many, many years.
1kiki: At least stop using the jails as drug addict warehouses! And yeah, ge jails out of corporate hands.
Quote:
6. Immigration justice / abolish ICE.
SIGNYM: Good grief. Do you really want another exhaustive explanation how uncontrolled immigration is bad for us?
6IXSTRINGJACK: To add to this, how do you think this list would have read if this one was at the top, right above free healthcare, housing and jobs for everybody?
... including Illegals.
1kiki: what DOES she mean by 'justice', one wonders cynically.
Quote:
7. Solidarity with Puerto Rico.
SIGNYM: "Solidarity". What the hell does THAT mean? Either offer PR statehood or cut them loose (gently, over time).
6IXSTRINGJACK: This doesn't mean anything. It's a feel good buzz word. Puerto Rico is largely in control if they're going to be a state or not. They never pushed for it before because they have the best of both worlds. I don't believe they want statehood now either, but they'll bitch and moan and cry raci
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Quote:
Originally posted by captaincrunch:
You have an open bold bracket code boy (I've chosen not to fix it in this post).
Oh... and to go further into why this happens, I usually remove Sig's signature line because it ends in a link and screws everything else up. Looks like sometimes I forget to leave the closing bold bracket in when I do this.
I've asked her to fix it now, and I ask anybody else not to finish their posts or signatures with links because it plays hell when somebody is trying to quote you. I will try to remember not to finish a post with a link in the future myself.
Do Right, Be Right. :)
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It's Trumps agenda we need to focus on. Not a first term congresswoman. T 
Hey, you guys know what white supremacist hate more than Jews, Polaks. Who here fits that description? kiki and sig to name two. Who loves the Polak hater Trump, kiki and sig to name two.
Fucking dummies
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I'm in support of Trump's agenda. You go worry about it for us, T.
Do Right, Be Right. :)
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Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
I'm in support of Trump's agenda. You go worry about it for us, T.
We know Jack. That's because you too are a racist and you racists have to stick together. Is the caravan here yet.
T
Hey, you guys know what white supremacist hate more than Jews, Polaks. Who here fits that description? kiki and sig to name two. Who loves the Polak hater Trump, kiki and sig to name two.
Fucking dummies
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Here's a synopsis of the video, so y'all don't have to listen to it:
1) IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE OP
2) AFTER GWB destroyed Afghanistan and Iraq and attempted to destroy a few more,
AFTER we killed a million people in the Mideast,
AFTER Madeline Albright said killing a half-million Iraq children was "worth it"
AFTER Hillary giggled We came, we saw, he died
AFTER Obama destroyed Libya and developed an assassination list (which included an American citizen) and started killing innocent people with our flying killing machines...
After all that ...
THEN these guys start spewing "moral standards" and "values" about Khashoggi??
The hypocrisy is sickening.
*****
You see, THUGR? I was right! Hypocrisy doesn't need to "begin" because it's alive and well, right here on FFF.net!
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND
America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876
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Quote:Oh? Huh, I'll look into it.
Oh... and to go further into why this happens, I usually remove Sig's signature line because it ends in a link and screws everything else up.
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND
America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876
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OK, I think problem fixed. That's because the closed bracket was the very last character on that line, and if your post begins right after that it tends to bonk your entry IIRC.
I added a couple of characters at the end, let me know if that fixes the problem.
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So, do none of the liberals here want to discuss the SUBSTANCE of Ocasio-Cortez' wishlist?
I mean, as you can see there are points in it where we could probably get 9 of the 10 people here to agree on, and other points where we could provisionally agree. And finally, the points where we disagree are probably worthwhile discussing.
Or dn't you want agreement and discussion?
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND
America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .
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Quote:
Originally posted by THG:
Is the caravan here yet.
No. It's in Tijuana. They're in the process of kicking them out of Mexico.
Fucking brown nationalists, huh?
Do Right, Be Right. :)
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Quote:No, those are autodeleted. Try one hard return.
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
OK, I think problem fixed. That's because the closed bracket was the very last character on that line, and if your post begins right after that it tends to bonk your entry IIRC.
I added a couple of characters at the end, let me know if that fixes the problem.
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For example.
Quote:Oh? Huh, I'll look into it.
Oh... and to go further into why this happens, I usually remove Sig's signature line because it ends in a link and screws everything else up.
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND
America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876
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Quote:Yep, that worked.
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
For example.Quote:Oh? Huh, I'll look into it.
Oh... and to go further into why this happens, I usually remove Sig's signature line because it ends in a link and screws everything else up.
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND
America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876
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Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:Quote:Yep, that worked.
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
For example.Quote:Oh? Huh, I'll look into it.
Oh... and to go further into why this happens, I usually remove Sig's signature line because it ends in a link and screws everything else up.
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND
America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876
Disregard my reply to you in the other thread then, JSF. Seems we got our signals crossed.
Thanks Sigs. :)
Do Right, Be Right. :)
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Quote:McAllen TX was the closest Crossing, so Tijuana was the greatest distance. Could the busses only go where the cameras were?
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:Quote:
Originally posted by THG:
Is the caravan here yet.
No. It's in Tijuana. They're in the process of kicking them out of Mexico.
Fucking brown nationalists, huh?
Do Right, Be Right. :)
I heard that without busses, it would take them til February to arrive.
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After that thorough rout, Democrats have all the power and all the responsibility No matter what happens, change is on the horizon.
Having decimated the Colorado Republican party in the midterm elections, Democrats are now firmly in control of every branch of state government. They don’t need a single Republican to accomplish their goals, and Republicans can’t pass a single bill without significant help from the Democrats.
https://www.denverpost.com/2018/11/23/after-that-thorough-rout-democra
ts-have-all-the-power-and-all-the-responsibility/
T
Hey, you guys know what white supremacist hate more than Jews, Polaks. Who here fits that description? kiki and sig to name two. Who loves the Polak hater Trump, kiki and sig to name two.
Fucking dummies
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Quote:
Originally posted by THG:
After that thorough rout, Democrats have all the power and all the responsibility No matter what happens, change is on the horizon.
Having decimated the Colorado Republican party in the midterm elections, Democrats are now firmly in control of every branch of state government. They don’t need a single Republican to accomplish their goals, and Republicans can’t pass a single bill without significant help from the Democrats.
https://www.denverpost.com/2018/11/23/after-that-thorough-rout-democra
ts-have-all-the-power-and-all-the-responsibility/
Poor T. His limited reading skills got him all excited when he "read" this and thought it was on the national level.
Do Right, Be Right. :)
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OMFG.
THUGR.
What in god's name does your post have to do with Ocasio-Cortez?
ASIDE FROM the fact that you seem to have completely misinterpreted the article: Do you pick WHERE you post at random? Throw darts at a dart-board, or something?
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND
America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .
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Quote:Trolls need to post their random nonsense in active threads, because their own threads where they circle jerk have no traffic.
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
OMFG.
THUGR.
What in god's name does your post have to do with Ocasio-Cortez?
ASIDE FROM the fact that you seem to have completely misinterpreted the article: Do you pick WHERE you post at random? Throw darts at a dart-board, or something?
Or, they are the sockpuppet of second.
Did you notice the Troll also states that you are an effing dummy? Irony might escape them.
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Funny, I called all three of you dummies. Yep, funny...
T
Hey, you guys know what white supremacist hate more than Jews, Polaks. Who here fits that description? kiki and sig to name two. Who loves the Polak hater Trump, kiki and sig to name two.
Fucking dummies
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Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:Quote:
Originally posted by THG:
After that thorough rout, Democrats have all the power and all the responsibility No matter what happens, change is on the horizon.
Having decimated the Colorado Republican party in the midterm elections, Democrats are now firmly in control of every branch of state government. They don’t need a single Republican to accomplish their goals, and Republicans can’t pass a single bill without significant help from the Democrats.
https://www.denverpost.com/2018/11/23/after-that-thorough-rout-democra
ts-have-all-the-power-and-all-the-responsibility/
Poor T. His limited reading skills got him all excited when he "read" this and thought it was on the national level.
Did you read it dummy? It says Colorado in the paragraph I quoted. Stupid is as stupid does. Or in your case, no reading comprehension, hey dummy.
T
Hey, you guys know what white supremacist hate more than Jews, Polaks. Who here fits that description? kiki and sig to name two. Who loves the Polak hater Trump, kiki and sig to name two.
Fucking dummies
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Judge rules Trump charity lawsuit can proceed
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/judge-rules-trump-charity-lawsui
t-can-proceed
T
Hey, you guys know what white supremacist hate more than Jews, Polaks. Who here fits that description? kiki and sig to name two. Who loves the Polak hater Trump, kiki and sig to name two.
Fucking dummies
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Quote:
Originally posted by THG:Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:Quote:
Originally posted by THG:
After that thorough rout, Democrats have all the power and all the responsibility No matter what happens, change is on the horizon.
Having decimated the Colorado Republican party in the midterm elections, Democrats are now firmly in control of every branch of state government. They don’t need a single Republican to accomplish their goals, and Republicans can’t pass a single bill without significant help from the Democrats.
https://www.denverpost.com/2018/11/23/after-that-thorough-rout-democra
ts-have-all-the-power-and-all-the-responsibility/
Poor T. His limited reading skills got him all excited when he "read" this and thought it was on the national level.
Did you read it dummy? It says Colorado in the paragraph I quoted. Stupid is as stupid does. Or in your case, no reading comprehension, hey dummy.
I read it. It's meaningless to anybody outside of Colorado, and doesn't hold any bearing in this thread at all.
It's fine if you don't want to admit that you didn't know what the article was about until after I pointed it out to you.
Since we're talking about states that have nothing to do with New York or the thread title, here's one that actually might have a much larger cultural impact:
Democrats Nearly Got Wiped Out In Ohio And Can’t Figure Out What To Do Next (Source: Buzzfeed News)
https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/henrygomez/ohio-democrats-2020-sh
errod-brown-cordray
What Buzzfeed failed to mention, or perhaps research:
Ohio, When It Comes to Choosing Presidents, You're It. No Doubt About It
http://www.wvxu.org/post/ohio-when-it-comes-choosing-presidents-youre-
it-no-doubt-about-it#stream/0
Quote:
We know this because Kyle Kondik, managing editor of Sabato’s Crystal Ball, a weekly politics newsletter published by the University of Virginia’s Center for Politics, looked at presidential elections dating back to 1896 and found that no state had a higher percentage of picking the winner – 28 of 30, for 93 percent.
But good to hear about Colorado though...
Do Right, Be Right. :)
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Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:Quote:
Originally posted by THG:Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:Quote:
Originally posted by THG:
After that thorough rout, Democrats have all the power and all the responsibility No matter what happens, change is on the horizon.
Having decimated the Colorado Republican party in the midterm elections, Democrats are now firmly in control of every branch of state government. They don’t need a single Republican to accomplish their goals, and Republicans can’t pass a single bill without significant help from the Democrats.
https://www.denverpost.com/2018/11/23/after-that-thorough-rout-democra
ts-have-all-the-power-and-all-the-responsibility/
Poor T. His limited reading skills got him all excited when he "read" this and thought it was on the national level.
Did you read it dummy? It says Colorado in the paragraph I quoted. Stupid is as stupid does. Or in your case, no reading comprehension, hey dummy.
I read it. It's meaningless to anybody outside of Colorado, and doesn't hold any bearing in this thread at all.
It's fine if you don't want to admit that you didn't know what the article was about until after I pointed it out to you.
Since we're talking about states that have nothing to do with New York or the thread title, here's one that actually might have a much larger cultural impact:
Democrats Nearly Got Wiped Out In Ohio And Can’t Figure Out What To Do Next (Source: Buzzfeed News)
https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/henrygomez/ohio-democrats-2020-sh
errod-brown-cordray
Quote:
National party operatives frightened by Donald Trump’s eight-point win in 2016 and equally dreadful midterm election results this month have begun to consider writing off the once-indisputable battleground state, no longer confident it is worthy of substantial investment in future elections.
What Buzzfeed failed to mention, or perhaps research:
Ohio, When It Comes to Choosing Presidents, You're It. No Doubt About It
http://www.wvxu.org/post/ohio-when-it-comes-choosing-presidents-youre-
it-no-doubt-about-it#stream/0
Quote:
We know this because Kyle Kondik, managing editor of Sabato’s Crystal Ball, a weekly politics newsletter published by the University of Virginia’s Center for Politics, looked at presidential elections dating back to 1896 and found that no state had a higher percentage of picking the winner – 28 of 30, for 93 percent.
But good to hear about Colorado though...
Do Right, Be Right. :)
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Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:Quote:
Originally posted by THG:Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:Quote:
Originally posted by THG:
After that thorough rout, Democrats have all the power and all the responsibility No matter what happens, change is on the horizon.
Having decimated the Colorado Republican party in the midterm elections, Democrats are now firmly in control of every branch of state government. They don’t need a single Republican to accomplish their goals, and Republicans can’t pass a single bill without significant help from the Democrats.
https://www.denverpost.com/2018/11/23/after-that-thorough-rout-democra
ts-have-all-the-power-and-all-the-responsibility/
Poor T. His limited reading skills got him all excited when he "read" this and thought it was on the national level.
Did you read it dummy? It says Colorado in the paragraph I quoted. Stupid is as stupid does. Or in your case, no reading comprehension, hey dummy.
I read it. It's meaningless to anybody outside of Colorado, and doesn't hold any bearing in this thread at all.
So dummy, according to your logic Ocalio Cortez's district in New York’s 14th Congressional District, which includes the eastern Bronx and northern Queens, is not relevant or important to anyone outside her district. Yet here you are discussing her and her politics.
You, discussing a single district in New York as though it is important while insisting the democrats routing the republican party in the entire state of Colorado is meaningless to anyone other than people residing in the state. More Jack, more proof of your stupidity.
Wow Jack wow, you are stupid.
T
Hey, you guys know what white supremacist hate more than Jews, Polaks. Who here fits that description? kiki and sig to name two. Who loves the Polak hater Trump, kiki and sig to name two.
Fucking dummies
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To restart an actual topical discussion after the thread got turned into THUGGER's personal crap-hole:
Quote:
1. Medicare for all.
SIGNYM: Yes. But. It needs reform on how services are paid (I've been told that Medicare pays for each procedure eg "skin ulcer debridement", which doesn't reward doctors for treating the whole patient and root causes of disease eg "weight loss for diabetic control") plus it needs to be better-funded and it needs to negotiate better drug prices.
6IXSTRINGJACK: Single Payer. With prices is big bold numbers for different procedures as if you were ordering an extra value meal at McDonald's too.
1kiki: I agree single-payer, with medical personnel including doctors receiving a yearly salary instead of getting reimbursed by piecework; and vigorous drug price negotiations. As it is now, doctors are 'upcoding' (your hacking cough becomes viral pneumonia and asthma with the stroke of a pen) in order to get reimbursed to the level they think is necessary. I don't think prices matter in terms of usage either. One of the things that is sinking 'Obamacare' is simply the scale of unmet need which is driving usage. Even shoveling healthy young'uns and their premiums into the system couldn't create enough income to offset the burden of existing need. I don't see single-payer reducing usage rates until most people have had their medical issues either resolved or turned into unremarkable chronically managed items.
Quote:
2. Housing as a human right.
SIGNYM: Not possible. How can the government possibly fund this during real estate bubbles?
6IXSTRINGJACK: Maybe we should ask Putin?
1kiki: Do you have an 'in' with him?
Quote:
3. A Federal jobs guarantee.
SIGNYM: Great!! FUNDING???
6IXSTRINGJACK: Maybe we should ask Putin?
1kiki: How about we re-purpose the army?
Quote:
4. Gun control / assault weapons ban.
SIGNYM: Universal registration.
JEWELSTAITEFAN: Register every single Steak Knife, Box Cutter, Musket? I don't believe registering Cannon would even withstand the Michigan State Constitution.
6IXSTRINGJACK: I disagree. And so will millions of Americans who preserve their right to bear arms in the case our government becomes tyrannical.
Guns aren't the problem. There were tons of guns around before all these shootings started happening. I'd start looking into pharmaceuticals first if the actual end result that the government wants to see is the shootings to stop.
Quote:
5. Criminal Justice Reform, end private prisons.
SIGNYM: This I can agree with.
6IXSTRINGJACK: I'm 100% on board with this, and I have been for many, many years.
1kiki: At least stop using the jails as drug addict warehouses! And yeah, ge jails out of corporate hands.
Quote:
6. Immigration justice / abolish ICE.
SIGNYM: Good grief. Do you really want another exhaustive explanation how uncontrolled immigration is bad for us?
6IXSTRINGJACK: To add to this, how do you think this list would have read if this one was at the top, right above free healthcare, housing and jobs for everybody?
... including Illegals.
1kiki: what DOES she mean by 'justice', one wonders cynically.
Quote:
7. Solidarity with Puerto Rico.
SIGNYM: "Solidarity". What the hell does THAT mean? Either offer PR statehood or cut them loose (gently, over time).
6IXSTRINGJACK: This doesn't mean anything. It's a feel good buzz word. Puerto Rico is largely in control if they're going to be a state or not. They never pushed for it before because they have the
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Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
To restart an actual topical discussion after the thread got turned into THUGGER's personal crap-hole
Yup. He's on full ignore for the rest of this thread.
Quote:
1. Medicare for all.
SIGNYM: Yes. But. It needs reform on how services are paid (I've been told that Medicare pays for each procedure eg "skin ulcer debridement", which doesn't reward doctors for treating the whole patient and root causes of disease eg "weight loss for diabetic control") plus it needs to be better-funded and it needs to negotiate better drug prices.
6IXSTRINGJACK: Single Payer. With prices is big bold numbers for different procedures as if you were ordering an extra value meal at McDonald's too.
1kiki: I agree single-payer, with medical personnel including doctors receiving a yearly salary instead of getting reimbursed by piecework; and vigorous drug price negotiations. As it is now, doctors are 'upcoding' (your hacking cough becomes viral pneumonia and asthma with the stroke of a pen) in order to get reimbursed to the level they think is necessary. I don't think prices matter in terms of usage either. One of the things that is sinking 'Obamacare' is simply the scale of unmet need which is driving usage. Even shoveling healthy young'uns and their premiums into the system couldn't create enough income to offset the burden of existing need. I don't see single-payer reducing usage rates until most people have had their medical issues either resolved or turned into unremarkable chronically managed items.
6IXSTRINGJACK: Agreed.
Quote:
2. Housing as a human right.
SIGNYM: Not possible. How can the government possibly fund this during real estate bubbles?
6IXSTRINGJACK: Maybe we should ask Putin?
1kiki: Do you have an 'in' with him?
6IXSTRINGJACK: Nah. I'm the Nazi here, remember? I only speak to Hitler's ghost. Thought maybe G had a direct line to Putin since he's an actual Communist now.
Quote:
3. A Federal jobs guarantee.
SIGNYM: Great!! FUNDING???
6IXSTRINGJACK: Maybe we should ask Putin?
1kiki: How about we re-purpose the army?
6IXSTRINGJACK: Maybe. I think Halliburton/Blackwater or whatever they're calling themselves today would put a hit out on anybody involved in that though, regardless of party affiliation.
Quote:
4. Gun control / assault weapons ban.
SIGNYM: Universal registration.
JEWELSTAITEFAN: Register every single Steak Knife, Box Cutter, Musket? I don't believe registering Cannon would even withstand the Michigan State Constitution.
6IXSTRINGJACK: I disagree. And so will millions of Americans who preserve their right to bear arms in the case our government becomes tyrannical.
Guns aren't the problem. There were tons of guns around before all these shootings started happening. I'd start looking into pharmaceuticals first if the actual end result that the government wants to see is the shootings to stop.
6IXSTRINGJACK: Don't want to wade in these waters Kiki?
Quote:
5. Criminal Justice Reform, end private prisons.
SIGNYM: This I can agree with.
6IXSTRINGJACK: I'm 100% on board with this, and I have been for many, many years.
1kiki: At least stop using the jails as drug addict warehouses! And yeah, ge jails out of corporate hands.
6IXSTRINGJACK: You should watch the show "Maron". One of the funniest bits I've ever seen was a slow pan out from a correctional officer's belt as comedian Marc Maron was talking to an "Indian" employee at his cable company trying to get his internet fixed and he was becoming extremely irate. The whole tim
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Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
To restart an actual topical discussion after the thread got turned into THUGGER's personal crap-hole:Quote:
1. Medicare for all.
SIGNYM: Yes. But. It needs reform on how services are paid (I've been told that Medicare pays for each procedure eg "skin ulcer debridement", which doesn't reward doctors for treating the whole patient and root causes of disease eg "weight loss for diabetic control") plus it needs to be better-funded and it needs to negotiate better drug prices.
6IXSTRINGJACK: Single Payer. With prices is big bold numbers for different procedures as if you were ordering an extra value meal at McDonald's too.
1kiki: I agree single-payer, with medical personnel including doctors receiving a yearly salary instead of getting reimbursed by piecework; and vigorous drug price negotiations. As it is now, doctors are 'upcoding' (your hacking cough becomes viral pneumonia and asthma with the stroke of a pen) in order to get reimbursed to the level they think is necessary. I don't think prices matter in terms of usage either. One of the things that is sinking 'Obamacare' is simply the scale of unmet need which is driving usage. Even shoveling healthy young'uns and their premiums into the system couldn't create enough income to offset the burden of existing need. I don't see single-payer reducing usage rates until most people have had their medical issues either resolved or turned into unremarkable chronically managed items.Quote:
2. Housing as a human right.
SIGNYM: Not possible. How can the government possibly fund this during real estate bubbles?
6IXSTRINGJACK: Maybe we should ask Putin?
1kiki: Do you have an 'in' with him?Quote:
3. A Federal jobs guarantee.
SIGNYM: Great!! FUNDING???
6IXSTRINGJACK: Maybe we should ask Putin?
1kiki: How about we re-purpose the army?Quote:
4. Gun control / assault weapons ban.
SIGNYM: Universal registration.
JEWELSTAITEFAN: Register every single Steak Knife, Box Cutter, Musket? I don't believe registering Cannon would even withstand the Michigan State Constitution.
6IXSTRINGJACK: I disagree. And so will millions of Americans who preserve their right to bear arms in the case our government becomes tyrannical.
Guns aren't the problem. There were tons of guns around before all these shootings started happening. I'd start looking into pharmaceuticals first if the actual end result that the government wants to see is the shootings to stop.Quote:JEWELSTAITEFAN: This one I can get behind.
5. Criminal Justice Reform, end private prisons.
SIGNYM: This I can agree with.
6IXSTRINGJACK: I'm 100% on board with this, and I have been for many, many years.
1kiki: At least stop using the jails as drug addict warehouses! And yeah, ge jails out of corporate hands.Quote:
6. Immigration justice / abolish ICE.
SIGNYM: Good grief. Do you really want another exhaustive explanation how uncontrolled immigration is bad for us?
6IXSTRINGJACK: To add to this, how do you think this list would have read if this one was at the top, right above free healthcare, housing and jobs for everybody?
... including Illegals.
1kiki: what DOES she mean by 'justice', one wonders cynically.Quote:
7. Solidarity with Puerto Rico.
SIGNYM: "Solidarity". What the hell does THAT mean? Either offer PR statehood or cut them loose (gently, over time).
6IXSTRINGJACK: This doesn't mean anything. It's a feel good buzz word. Puerto Rico is largely in control if they're goNOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
To restart an actual topical discussion after the thread got turned into THUGGER's personal crap-hole:Quote:
1. Medicare for all.
SIGNYM: Yes. But. It needs reform on how services are paid (I've been told that Medicare pays for each procedure eg "skin ulcer debridement", which doesn't reward doctors for treating the whole patient and root causes of disease eg "weight loss for diabetic control") plus it needs to be better-funded and it needs to negotiate better drug prices.
6IXSTRINGJACK: Single Payer. With prices is big bold numbers for different procedures as if you were ordering an extra value meal at McDonald's too.
1kiki: I agree single-payer, with medical personnel including doctors receiving a yearly salary instead of getting reimbursed by piecework; and vigorous drug price negotiations. As it is now, doctors are 'upcoding' (your hacking cough becomes viral pneumonia and asthma with the stroke of a pen) in order to get reimbursed to the level they think is necessary. I don't think prices matter in terms of usage either. One of the things that is sinking 'Obamacare' is simply the scale of unmet need which is driving usage. Even shoveling healthy young'uns and their premiums into the system couldn't create enough income to offset the burden of existing need. I don't see single-payer reducing usage rates until most people have had their medical issues either resolved or turned into unremarkable chronically managed items.Quote:
2. Housing as a human right.
SIGNYM: Not possible. How can the government possibly fund this during real estate bubbles?
6IXSTRINGJACK: Maybe we should ask Putin?
1kiki: Do you have an 'in' with him?Quote:
3. A Federal jobs guarantee.
SIGNYM: Great!! FUNDING???
6IXSTRINGJACK: Maybe we should ask Putin?
1kiki: How about we re-purpose the army?Quote:
4. Gun control / assault weapons ban.
SIGNYM: Universal registration.
JEWELSTAITEFAN: Register every single Steak Knife, Box Cutter, Musket? I don't believe registering Cannon would even withstand the Michigan State Constitution.
6IXSTRINGJACK: I disagree. And so will millions of Americans who preserve their right to bear arms in the case our government becomes tyrannical.
Guns aren't the problem. There were tons of guns around before all these shootings started happening. I'd start looking into pharmaceuticals first if the actual end result that the government wants to see is the shootings to stop.Quote:JEWELSTAITEFAN: This one I can get behind.
5. Criminal Justice Reform, end private prisons.
SIGNYM: This I can agree with.
6IXSTRINGJACK: I'm 100% on board with this, and I have been for many, many years.
1kiki: At least stop using the jails as drug addict warehouses! And yeah, ge jails out of corporate hands.Quote:
6. Immigration justice / abolish ICE.
SIGNYM: Good grief. Do you really want another exhaustive explanation how uncontrolled immigration is bad for us?
6IXSTRINGJACK: To add to this, how do you think this list would have read if this one was at the top, right above free healthcare, housing and jobs for everybody?
... including Illegals.
1kiki: what DOES she mean by 'justice', one wonders cynically.Quote:
7. Solidarity with Puerto Rico.
SIGNYM: "Solidarity". What the hell does THAT mean? Either offer PR statehood or cut them loose (gently, over time).
6IXSTRINGJACK: This doesn't mean anything. It's a feel good buzz word. PueNOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Funny G
T
Hey, you guys know what white supremacist hate more than Jews, Polaks. Who here fits that description? kiki and sig to name two. Who loves the Polak hater Trump, kiki and sig to name two.
Fucking dummies
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"6IXSTRINGJACK: Don't want to wade in these waters Kiki?"
Honestly, I haven't thought about it enough.
murder rate by country
It's obviously not about economic development, because in terms of murder rates the US soars far above the other first-world nations, and even far above many 'backwards' ones.
1 El Salvador 82.84
2 Honduras 56.52
3 Venezuela 56.33
4 Virgin Islands 49.26
5 Jamaica 47.01
10 South Africa 33.97
20 Mexico 19.26
30 South Sudan 13.90
40 Barbados 10.91
50 Panama 9.67
60 Dominica 8.37
70 Ethiopia 7.56
80 Ukraine 6.34
90 United States 5.35
100 Kyrgyzstan 4.49
110 Timor-Leste 3.95
120 New Caledonia 3.23
130 Martinique 2.78
140 Myanmar 2.27
141 Fiji 2.26
142 Kurdistan Region (Iraq) 2.20
143 Syria 2.20
144 Nepal 2.16
145 Azerbaijan 2.14
149 Belgium 1.95
157 Canada 1.68
169 France 1.35
173 England and Wales 1.22
174 United Kingdom 1.20
175 Germany 1.18
176 Scotland 1.18
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Which means it's not necessarily about poverty rates, since poorer countries are more pacifist.
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gun ownership seems to be one factor
If I had the time I'd graph one vs the other just to see what kind of line there was.
https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/countries-with-the-highest-rate-of
-gun-ownership.html
1 United States 101
2 Serbia 58.21
3 Yemen 54.8
4 Cyprus 36.4
5 Saudi Arabia 35.0
6 Iraq 34.2
7 Uruguay 31.8
8 Norway 31.3
9 France 31.2
10 Canada 30.8
11 Austria 30.4
12 Iceland 30.3
13 Germany 30.3
14 Finland 27.3
15 Oman 25.5
16 Bahrain 24.8
17 Kuwait 24.8
18 Switzerland 24.45
19 Republic of Macedonia 24.1
20 Montenegro 23.1
21 New Zealand 22.6
22 Greece 22.5
23 United Arab Emirates 22.1
24 Croatia 21.7
25 Panama 21.7
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https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/
2172rank.html
it's possible not poverty rates but GINI index is also involved - after Hong Kong the US has the second highest index of first world counties.
1 Lesotho 63.2 1995
2 South Africa 62.5 2013 est.
3 Micronesia, Federated States of 61.1 2013 est.
4 Haiti 60.8 2012
5 Botswana 60.5 2009
6 Namibia 59.7 2010
7 Zambia 57.5 2013
8 Comoros 55.9 2004 est.
9 Hong Kong 53.9 2016
10 Guatemala 53.0 2014 est.
11 Paraguay 51.7 2014
12 Colombia 51.1 2015
13 Papua New Guinea 50.9 1996
14 Panama 50.7 2014 est.
15 Chile 50.5 2013
16 Rwanda 50.4 2013 est.
17 Eswatini 50.4 2001
18 Gambia, The 50.2 1998
19 Brazil 49.0 2014
20 Congo, Republic of the 48.9 2011 est.
21 Nigeria 48.8 2013
22 Costa Rica 48.5 2014
23 Kenya 48.5 2016 est.
24 Mexico 48.2 2014
25 Dominican Republic 47.1 2013 est.
26 Nicaragua 47.1 2014
27 Honduras 47.1 2014
28 Bolivia 47.0 2016 est.
29 China 46.5 2016 est.
30 Malaysia 46.2 2009
31 Malawi 46.1 2010
32 Togo 46.0 2011
33 South Sudan 46.0 2010 est.
34 Ecuador 45.9 December 2017
35 Singapore 45.9 2017
36 Saudi Arabia 45.9 2013 est.
37 Mozambique 45.6 2008
38 Peru 45.3 2012
39 United States 45.0 2007
40 Cameroon 44.6 2001
41 Guyana 44.6 2007
42 Thailand 44.5 2015
43 Iran 44.5 2006
44 Philippines 44.4 2015 est.
45 Central African Republic 43.6 2003 est.
46 Chad 43.3 2011 est.
47 Zimbabwe 43.2 2011 est.
48 Israel 42.8 2013
49 Angola 42.7 2008 est.
50 Burundi 42.4 1998
51 Ghana 42.3 2012-13
52 Gabon 42.2 2005 est.
53 Congo, Democratic Republic of the 42.1 2012 est.
54 Argentina 41.7 2017 est.
55 Uruguay 41.6 2014
56 Cote d'Ivoire 41.5 2008
57 Russia 41.2 2015
58 Madagascar 41.0 2012
59 Morocco 40.9 2007 est.
60 Djibouti 40.9 2002
61 Turkmenistan 40.8 1998
62 Senegal 40.3 2011
63 Turkey 40.2 2010
64 Bulgaria 40.2 2017
65 Georgia 40.1 2014
66 Mali 40.1 2001
67 Tunisia 40.0 2005 est.
68 Jordan 39.7 2007
69 Uganda 39.5 2013
70 Burkina Faso 39.5 2007
71 Guinea 39.4 2007
72 Sri Lanka 39.2 2012 est.
73 Venezuela 39.0 2011
74 Bhutan 38.8 2012
75 Serbia 38.7 2014 est.
76 Maldives 38.4 2009 est.
77 Cambodia 37.9 2008 est.
78 Japan 37.9 2011
79 Yemen 37.9 2009 est.
80 Lithuania 37.9 2015
81 Tanzania 37.6 2007
82 Mauritania 37.0 2014
83 Indonesia 36.8 2009
84 Uzbekistan 36.8 2003
85 Greece 36.7 2012 est.
86 Laos 36.7 2008
87 Benin 36.5 2003
88 New Zealand 36.2 1997
89 El Salvador 36.0 2016 est.
90 Falkland Islands (Islas Malvinas) 36.0 2015
91 Mauritius 35.9 2012 est.
92 Spain 35.9 2012
93 Korea, South 35.7 2016 est.
94 Algeria 35.3 1995
95 India 35.2 2011
96 Jamaica 35.0 2016
97 Macau 35.0 2013
98 Vietnam 34.8 2014
99 Estonia 34.8 2015
100 Cyprus 34.8 2014 est.
101 West Bank 34.5 2009 est.
102 Latvia 34.5 2015
103 Sierra Leone 34.0 2011
104 Niger 34.0 2014
105 Mongolia 34.0 2017
106 Greenland 33.9 2015 est.
107 Portugal 33.9 2015 est.
108 Bosnia and Herzegovina 33.8 2011
109 Azerbaijan 33.7 2008
110 Macedonia 33.7 2015
111 Taiwan 33.6 2014
112 Kyrgyzstan 33.4 2007
113 Ethiopia 33.0 2011
114 Nepal 32.8 2010
115 Tajikistan 32.6 2006
116 United Kingdom 32.4 2012
117 Canada 32.1 2005
118 Bangladesh 32.1 2010
119 Liberia 32.0 2014
120 Montenegro 31.9 2014 est.
121 Italy 31.9 2012 est.
122 Timor-Leste 31.9 2007 est.
123 Egypt 31.8 2015
124 Armenia 31.5 2014
125 Ireland 31.3 2013 est.
126 Poland 30.8 2015
127 European Union 30.8 2016 est.
128 Sao Tome and Principe 30.8 2010 est.
129 Croatia 30.8 2015 est.
130 Pakistan 30.7 FY2013
131 Austria 30.5 2015
132 Luxembourg 30.4 2013 est.
133 Netherlands 30.3 2015 est.
134 Australia 30.3 2008
135 Switzerland 29.5 2014 est.
136 France 29.3 2016
137 Denmark 29.0 2016 est.
138 Albania 29.0 2012 est.
139 Hungary 28.2 2015 est.
140 Malta 2
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But the back-end idea that we need guns in case we want a revolution is, I believe, sadly outdated. With the government tapped into private communications, and with heavy armament and crowd-control weapons on its side, I don't believe an armed citizenry will be effective, even if - or maybe especially if - the government becomes blatantly repressive.
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In practical terms, no, I don't believe that there's a political mechanism for universal gun registration.
But if we want to solve our extreme murder rate, I do believe we need to reduce the number of guns, and equally, create a society that works to more equitably benefit its members.
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Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
In practical terms, no, I don't believe that there's a political mechanism for universal gun registration.
But if we want to solve our extreme murder rate, I do believe we need to reduce the number of guns, and equally, create a society that works to more equitably benefit its members.
I think if you create a society that works to equitably benefit its members then the gun issue becomes moot.
Do Right, Be Right. :)
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The biggest fault is that you have not defined "Assault Weapon" and all of the Steak Knives, screwdrivers, and Boxcutters included.
Comparing Gun Ownership to countries without a 2nd Amendment is a faulty foundation.
Comparing Murder Rates to countries without widespread psychotropic drug usage is also faulty and disingenuous. How many El Salvadorans are on Lexipro, Xanax, Risperdal?
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Quote:UH ... what areas in today's elementary school grads are lacking compared to 1895? I'd be interested in specifics.
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
The Department of Educamation has made so much improvement in re-education that a College Degree has been required in MA to work at McDonald's.
Remember, 70% of today's College Graduates cannot pass a test to graduate the 8th Grade from 1895.
Quote:Perhaps you could elucidate. I know you think that just because Trump got elected it instantly improved unemployment. But overall, the overall civilian labor force participation rates haven't improved according to the BLS. https://www.bls.gov/charts/employment-situation/civilian-labor-force-p
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
And if there are not enough jobs, then why did everybody just vote against jobs in the election? Why are Dems campaigning against jobs, campaigning to get rid of jobs? AO-C is the spokesbimbo for the party that hates jobs and works against having more jobs - such comprehension does not compute.
articipation-rate.htm And though the Brookings Institute has a different message about a limited population, it has figures not found in the raw BLS breakdown. https://www.brookings.edu/blog/up-front/2018/08/02/the-recent-rebound-
in-prime-age-labor-force-participation/ Meanwhile, Forbes indicates even less participation that the BLS. https://www.forbes.com/sites/eriksherman/2018/05/05/sure-unemployment-
went-down-because-the-number-of-people-working-did/ Meanwhile, the WSJ reports a persistently long-term lower participation rate with only insignificant variation (I assume they got their numbers from the BLS). https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/august-2018-jobs-report-analysis/card
/1536324110
What do you make of these figures?
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The biggest fault is that you have not defined "Assault Weapon" and all of the Steak Knives, screwdrivers, and Boxcutters included. And syringes, for that matter.
Comparing Gun Ownership to countries without a 2nd Amendment is a faulty foundation.
Comparing Murder Rates to countries without widespread psychotropic drug usage is also faulty and disingenuous. How many El Salvadorans are on Lexipro, Xanax, Risperdal?
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Not getting your drift there, JSF.
We're talking about murder, which involves motivation and means. When motivation is high it overcomes the lack of easy, efficient means (guns). Motivated people will go through the extra effort with knives and so on. When motivation is moderate but means are high, even lower level motivation results in death. It's too quick and easy to pull out a gun and kill someone in under a handful of seconds. It doesn't allow for second thoughts.
As for the second amendment, I wasn't trying to make a case that there's something 'wrong' with people in the US for owning so many guns. It's that when so many people have access to guns, naturally enough, guns will figure more in their violence.
As for psychotropic drugs, I think you're making a case that people on those drugs aren't fully in control of themselves, and so shouldn't be allowed to own guns.
So, I think I've addressed your post. But if not, I'm happy enough to read your reply as to why not.
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I have a question Signym. Who compiled this list? Was this put together by Fox or is this a list that she has cobbled together to affect change?
In the meantime, I'm going to do a little research on my own to see what's up.
SGG
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Quote:Ocasio2018.com/issues lists these, plus one missing.
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
I have a question Signym. Who compiled this list? Was this put together by Fox or is this a list that she has cobbled together to affect change?
In the meantime, I'm going to do a little research on my own to see what's up.
SGG
Original #3, now #15 for our discussion: A Peace Economy.
https://www.ocasio2018.com/issues/
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Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Comparing Murder Rates to countries without widespread psychotropic drug usage is also faulty and disingenuous. How many El Salvadorans are on Lexipro, Xanax, Risperdal?
I don't know - do you? Sounds like Rush or infowars would insinuate without any data or facts to back it up.
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Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
I think if you create a society that works to equitably benefit its members then the gun issue becomes moot.
Talk about some fairy SJW BS! Damn, don't hurt your feels too much.
Meanwhile, back in the real world...
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Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
But the back-end idea that we need guns in case we want a revolution is, I believe, sadly outdated. With the government tapped into private communications, and with heavy armament and crowd-control weapons on its side, I don't believe an armed citizenry will be effective, even if - or maybe especially if - the government becomes blatantly repressive.
"Sadly?" Huh? Why would anyone in the US want a revolution? Despite it's many flaws it's one of the best countries to live in for many reasons. Do you not think so?
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Quote:
Originally posted by captaincrunch:Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
I think if you create a society that works to equitably benefit its members then the gun issue becomes moot.
Talk about some fairy SJW BS! Damn, don't hurt your feels too much.
There is nothing about this statement that makes any sense.
Nobody hurt my feelings, and I don't even understand how that would be your takeaway here.
Also, you'll never find an SJW in the country that would support gun rights.
Do Right, Be Right. :)
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Quote:
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
I have a question Signym. Who compiled this list? Was this put together by Fox or is this a list that she has cobbled together to affect change?
In the meantime, I'm going to do a little research on my own to see what's up.
SGG
Good question! It was aired by FOX, but it's also on her website:
Quote:
Medicare For All
Housing As a Human Right
A Peace Economy
A Federal Jobs Guarantee
Gun Control / Assault Weapons Ban
Criminal Justice Reform, End Private Prisons
Immigration Justice / Abolish ICE
Solidarity with Puerto Rico
Mobilizing Against Climate Change
Clean Campaign Finance
Higher Education / Trade School for All
Women's Rights
Support LGBTQIA+
Support Seniors
Curb Wall Street Gambling: Restore Glass Steagall
https://www.ocasio2018.com/issues/
So to be fair, compare to what FOX aired
Quote:there are a few differences.
1. Medicare for all.
2. Housing as a human right.
3. A Federal jobs guarantee.
4. Gun control / assault weapons ban.
5. Criminal Justice Reform, end private prisons.
6. Immigration justice / abolish ICE.
7. Solidarity with Puerto Rico.
8. Mobilizing against climate change.
9. Clean campaign finance.
10. Higher education For all.
11. Women's rights.
12. Support LGBTQIA+.
13. Support seniors.
14. Curb wall Street gambling: restore glass steagal.
Ocasio-Cortez' website mentions a "peace economy" which is not in the FOX list but is important when thinking about funding. Her website also mentions higher education/trade school for all, "trade school" not in the FOX list but addresses one of my criticisms.
So FOX aired mostly an accurate list but left out one critical item (peace economy) and one minor item (trade school).
*****
But I see JSF beat me to the punch.
*****
And my questions about her platform still stand. For example, even if you were to take the ENTIRE Pentagon budget and turn it over to civilian use, it wouldn't pay for Medicare for all AND a jobs guarantee AND a housing guarantee AND mobilizing against climate change.
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND
America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .
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Quote:Once again GSTRING, you just can't seem to help being a troll and a liar.
But the back-end idea that we need guns in case we want a revolution is, I believe, sadly outdated.- KIKI
"Sadly?" Huh? Why would anyone in the US want a revolution? Despite it's many flaws it's one of the best countries to live in for many reasons. Do you not think so?- GSTRING
It's possible to be "sad" that the forces of violent compulsion wielded by our government are so much stronger than the people which the government presumably represents.
Did you ever actually WATCH Firefly, GSTRING?
"A government is a body of people usually notably ungoverned."
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND
America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .
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Thanks for posting her platform agenda. Because of work, I have been unable to really delve into researching her although I can see that it certainly is ambitious.
I don't think that all of her proposals will be implemented, but, at first glance, they seem to address some of the issues mentioned by other Democrats, and a handful of Republicans.
SGG
Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:Quote:
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
I have a question Signym. Who compiled this list? Was this put together by Fox or is this a list that she has cobbled together to affect change?
In the meantime, I'm going to do a little research on my own to see what's up.
SGG
Good question! It was aired by FOX, but it's also on her website:Quote:
Medicare For All
Housing As a Human Right
A Peace Economy
A Federal Jobs Guarantee
Gun Control / Assault Weapons Ban
Criminal Justice Reform, End Private Prisons
Immigration Justice / Abolish ICE
Solidarity with Puerto Rico
Mobilizing Against Climate Change
Clean Campaign Finance
Higher Education / Trade School for All
Women's Rights
Support LGBTQIA+
Support Seniors
Curb Wall Street Gambling: Restore Glass Steagall
https://www.ocasio2018.com/issues/
So to be fair, compare to what FOX airedQuote:there are a few differences.
1. Medicare for all.
2. Housing as a human right.
3. A Federal jobs guarantee.
4. Gun control / assault weapons ban.
5. Criminal Justice Reform, end private prisons.
6. Immigration justice / abolish ICE.
7. Solidarity with Puerto Rico.
8. Mobilizing against climate change.
9. Clean campaign finance.
10. Higher education For all.
11. Women's rights.
12. Support LGBTQIA+.
13. Support seniors.
14. Curb wall Street gambling: restore glass steagal.
Ocasio-Cortez' website mentions a "peace economy" which is not in the FOX list but is important when thinking about funding. Her website also mentions higher education/trade school for all, "trade school" not in the FOX list but addresses one of my criticisms.
So FOX aired mostly an accurate list but left out one critical item (peace economy) and one minor item (trade school).
*****
But I see JSF beat me to the punch.
*****
Still, my questions about her platform still stand. For example, even if you were to take the ENTIRE Pentagon budget and turn it over to civilian use, it wouldn't pay for Medicare for all AND a jobs guarantee AND a housing guarantee AND mobilizing against climate change.
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND
America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .
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Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:Quote:Once again GSTRING, you just can't seem to help being a troll and a liar.
But the back-end idea that we need guns in case we want a revolution is, I believe, sadly outdated.- KIKI
"Sadly?" Huh? Why would anyone in the US want a revolution? Despite it's many flaws it's one of the best countries to live in for many reasons. Do you not think so?- GSTRING
It's possible to be "sad" that the forces of violent compulsion wielded by our government are so much stronger than the people which the government presumably represents.
Did you ever actually WATCH Firefly, GSTRING?
"A government is a body of people usually notably ungoverned."
Ah, I see why you have so much trouble understanding how the world and real life actually works: Firefly was a TV show. It was fictional. Not real.
Curious: which violent compulsion are you referring to? When were they last wielded in this country?
Here's your Cyber Monday bonus: following your brain free logic...how would citizenry ever have more power than a government with the largest military on the planet? I'm guessing you didn't even bother to think of that. A tank in every garage? Jet fighter on every lawn? You don't do well with the "bloody obvious," do you?
What lie did I tell? You and Friki keep saying that but you can't point to one. It's like you are the one that's lying - interesting.
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Quote:AHA! Your brain finally crawled around to the very problem I was lamenting!
how would citizenry ever have more power than a government with the largest military on the planet?- GSTRING
In the Founding Father's version of things, the USA was to be protected by militias. We were never supposed to have a ginormous permanent standing army, much less have a ginormous permanent standing army that outclassed the next ten armies COMBINED and which had 1000 or more installations all over the world. We were supposed to avoid alliances and foreign military adventures.
So much for the Founding Fathers' version!
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND
America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .
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Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:Quote:AHA! Your brain finally crawled around to the very problem I was lamenting!
how would citizenry ever have more power than a government with the largest military on the planet?- GSTRING
In the Founding Father's version of things, the USA was to be protected by militias. We were never supposed to have a ginormous permanent standing army, much less have a ginormous permanent standing army that outclassed the next ten armies COMBINED and which had 1000 or more installations all over the world. We were supposed to avoid alliances and foreign military adventures.
So much for the Founding Fathers' version!
AHA! You're an idiot that got caught in your own bullsh*t. Again. Really, you have zero shame.
BTW - Where was my lie?
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AHA! GSTRING, you just made no sense at all!
Quote:If you don't know where you lied no explanation on my part is going to help you. But if you haven't figured it out in a week or so and you STILL want to know I'll explain it for you.
BTW - Where was my lie?- GSTRING
Here's a hint: How long have you been beating your boyfriend?
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND
America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .
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Quote:Did you mean: have you stopped beating your boyfriend?
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Here's a hint: How long have you been beating your boyfriend?
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Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
AHA! GSTRING, you just made no sense at all!
I'm not surprised you are going with the ignorance defense. What you said about a standing army - just more of your fantasy, "you know what would be great? If no one ever got sick!" lameness.
Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
If you don't know where you lied no explanation on my part is going to help you. But if you haven't figured it out in a week or so and you STILL want to know I'll explain it for you.
Here's a hint: How long have you been beating your boyfriend?
Yeah, you've become even more feeble - I have no idea what you're talking about other than you like to use gay slurs.
So go ahead, "I'll explain it for you."
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Quote:Generally speaking, I'd say that's true: You have NO IDEA what I'm posting about.
I have no idea what you're talking about- GSTRING
Quote:Being called "gay" is only a slur if you think there's something wrong with being gay. Otherwise, it's like being called a woman, or black, or a liberal ... shouldn't raise any hackles in any direction. I'm surprised that you didn't object to the "beating" part, tho, which would seem to be a more serious insinuation about your character.
you like to use gay slurs
Quote:Remind me in a week.
So go ahead, "I'll explain it for you."
*****
I'm a lot more interested in discussing Ocasio-Cortez' ideas. Not that they have a snowball's chance in hell of being implemented, but since a lot of liberals here seem to back her and there are some ideas I think are worth pursuing, it looks like there might be some room for agreement.
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND
America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .
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I heard today that AO-C stated that Border Enforcement and Integrity is the same as Nazi Holocaust.
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Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
I heard today that AO-C stated that Border Enforcement and Integrity is the same as Nazi Holocaust.
Well, that's ONE part of her platform that I disagree with!
But yanno, it IS possible to agree with parts of somebody's plan and disagree with other parts.
Take Trump, for example. There are three things that I thought it was absolutely vital for him to do, and that those three things were so fundamental for the USA to retain its sovereignty and to make progress that I was willing to overlook the roughly dozen things that I most likely would disagree with strenuously.
As long as Trump accomplishes those three things ... well, there's life after Trump, and we can start working on some of those other things. So while I "support" Trump, I don't support him in everything.
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND
America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .
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Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
I heard today that AO-C stated that Border Enforcement and Integrity is the same as Nazi Holocaust.
Cites? Voices in your head? You and SIG are the greatest offenders here when it comes to not providing citations for where you "heard" things.
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Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
But yanno, it IS possible to agree with parts of somebody's plan and disagree with other parts.
Take Trump, for example. There are three things that I thought it was absolutely vital for him to do, and that those three things were so fundamental for the USA to retain its sovereignty and to make progress that I was willing to overlook the roughly dozen things that I most likely would disagree with strenuously.
As long as Trump accomplishes those three things ... well, there's life after Trump, and we can start working on some of those other things. So while I "support" Trump, I don't support him in everything.
Way to take a strong stand!
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Quote:A simple search for "ocasio Cortez holocaust border" generated pages of spot on results.
Originally posted by captaincrunch:Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
I heard today that AO-C stated that Border Enforcement and Integrity is the same as Nazi Holocaust.
Cites? Voices in your head? You and SIG are the greatest offenders here when it comes to not providing citations for where you "heard" things.
So sorry that algore's interwebs invention is too complicated for you to do basic tasks.
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Here you go buddy: https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/the-simple-thing-alexandria
-ocasio-cortez-doesnt-get-about-the-migrant-caravan
I'm sure you guys LOVE her. Been called a Nazi countless times by almost all of you since Trump was elected. Further trivializing what the Jews went through during WWII by comparing economic "refugees" looking for free handouts and storming our border while waving their own country's flag should be right up your ally.
Do Right, Be Right. :)
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I'm even going to do something that I rarely ever do here, which is post the article in full. It was that good.
Quote:
Rep.-elect Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, D-N.Y., has managed to, once again, show up quite how little she knows about the world. In this case, it’s concerning that migrant caravan knocking at the unopened door in Tijuana, Mexico. We do actually have international law on this subject and it says that they don’t have the right of entry to the U.S. — not even as refugees, and especially not as asylum seekers.
In the process, she has managed to show how little she grasps of history too. Her comparison of Central Americans to Jewish refugees running from Hitler forgets what was actually done to those very refugees fleeing the Holocaust.
I should note that I’m entirely in favor of young women in politics, just as I am of any other activity that 50 percent of the species might want to perform in the flower of their youth. It’s Ocasio-Cortez that I have a problem with.
She tells us that asking to be considered a refugee isn’t a crime. Well, that’s not quite wholly and entirely true these days. But to then compare this to it not having been a crime for Jewish refugees causes a certain enragement.
What did actually happen to Jewish refugees from Germany and Austria? The U.S. maintained its strict controls on the number of migrants it would accept in those years up to entry into the war in 1941. There was also no difference made between simple migrants and refugees. Thus, with strict numerical controls on who could come, many couldn’t and thereby perished.
Actually, it was worse than this. One shipload on a ship named the St. Louis actually arrived but were sent back to Europe. Those who went back to mainland Europe then largely did die in the Holocaust. The U.S. took no part in the Kindertransport that saved tens of thousands of children (one of the finest TV clips you’ll ever see is on this subject) to the shame of the administration of the time, that of the great liberal President Franklin Roosevelt. It’s thought this resulted in 20,000 extra deaths.
Not knowing all this shows Ocasio-Cortez’s knowledge of history. Of course, after all of these events, we all had a look around the world and decided that we ought to do it differently. Which we do today, as apparently Ocasio-Cortez doesn’t know. Perhaps this is just my mansplaining ways, but I would hope that public pontification concerning the rights of asylum-seekers and refugees would at least be lightly informed by the rights of asylum-seekers and refugees under the international law which governs those rights — which is that there is no right for them to enter the U.S. at all.
Assume that they really are in fear of their lives in their home countries. Under the usual international conventions, they thus have a right (note, a right, an absolute one) to be welcomed into a safe country. This is as it should be if only on that reciprocal basis that we, or some of ours, might need that refuge at some point. There is little to no distinction made about why this right might exist. Issues of gender, sexuality, political activity, race, religion — the distinction isn’t really made. You’re in well-founded fear to your life and safety? You have that right, again right, to refuge. This is just.
However, it comes with a caveat. You must seek and accept that right in the first safe place you can reach. No, it doesn’t have to be geographically adjacent, it’s the first you can reach. If the path to safety is a flight from Phnom Penh to Seattle, then Seattle is the place of refuge and it must indeed be granted. If it’s to walk from one Central American country to another, then it’s the first safe place that is reached.
Mexico is a safe country for those fleeing specific horrors in Central America. Thus that’s where that refuge should be sought. And, as it happens, yes, seeking such asylum beyond that first safe place reached is indeed a breach of these rules. Perhaps it's not quite a crime, but under any strict application of the rules it'NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
A simple search for "ocasio Cortez holocaust border" generated pages of spot on results.
That's not the point, dill weed. You showing what link you are quoting tells us what your source is. If it's Fux it's Sh*t. It also gives us a chance to see if you quoted accurately or made sh*t up, which a number of your clown team often do.
Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
So sorry that algore's interwebs invention is too complicated for you to do basic tasks.
You mean like searching for "how many elephants are killed each day?" - something like that, that you couldn't do?
You see the difference? One is a political opinion that you are presenting as fact, and the other is just a search for facts and data. Sources for the first are much more important (shouldn't have to explain such basic sh*t).
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Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Here you go buddy: https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/the-simple-thing-alexandria
-ocasio-cortez-doesnt-get-about-the-migrant-caravan
I'm sure you guys LOVE her. Been called a Nazi countless times by almost all of you since Trump was elected. Further trivializing what the Jews went through during WWII by comparing economic "refugees" looking for free handouts and storming our border while waving their own country's flag should be right up your ally.
You're such a simpleton.
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Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
I'm even going to do something that I rarely ever do here, which is post the article in full. It was that good.Quote:
Rep.-elect Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, D-N.Y., has managed to, once again, show up quite how little she knows about the world. In this case, it’s concerning that migrant caravan knocking at the unopened door in Tijuana, Mexico. We do actually have international law on this subject and it says that they don’t have the right of entry to the U.S. — not even as refugees, and especially not as asylum seekers.
In the process, she has managed to show how little she grasps of history too. Her comparison of Central Americans to Jewish refugees running from Hitler forgets what was actually done to those very refugees fleeing the Holocaust.
I should note that I’m entirely in favor of young women in politics, just as I am of any other activity that 50 percent of the species might want to perform in the flower of their youth. It’s Ocasio-Cortez that I have a problem with.
She tells us that asking to be considered a refugee isn’t a crime. Well, that’s not quite wholly and entirely true these days. But to then compare this to it not having been a crime for Jewish refugees causes a certain enragement.
What did actually happen to Jewish refugees from Germany and Austria? The U.S. maintained its strict controls on the number of migrants it would accept in those years up to entry into the war in 1941. There was also no difference made between simple migrants and refugees. Thus, with strict numerical controls on who could come, many couldn’t and thereby perished.
Actually, it was worse than this. One shipload on a ship named the St. Louis actually arrived but were sent back to Europe. Those who went back to mainland Europe then largely did die in the Holocaust. The U.S. took no part in the Kindertransport that saved tens of thousands of children (one of the finest TV clips you’ll ever see is on this subject) to the shame of the administration of the time, that of the great liberal President Franklin Roosevelt. It’s thought this resulted in 20,000 extra deaths.
Not knowing all this shows Ocasio-Cortez’s knowledge of history. Of course, after all of these events, we all had a look around the world and decided that we ought to do it differently. Which we do today, as apparently Ocasio-Cortez doesn’t know. Perhaps this is just my mansplaining ways, but I would hope that public pontification concerning the rights of asylum-seekers and refugees would at least be lightly informed by the rights of asylum-seekers and refugees under the international law which governs those rights — which is that there is no right for them to enter the U.S. at all.
Assume that they really are in fear of their lives in their home countries. Under the usual international conventions, they thus have a right (note, a right, an absolute one) to be welcomed into a safe country. This is as it should be if only on that reciprocal basis that we, or some of ours, might need that refuge at some point. There is little to no distinction made about why this right might exist. Issues of gender, sexuality, political activity, race, religion — the distinction isn’t really made. You’re in well-founded fear to your life and safety? You have that right, again right, to refuge. This is just.
However, it comes with a caveat. You must seek and accept that right in the first safe place you can reach. No, it doesn’t have to be geographically adjacent, it’s the first you can reach. If the path to safety is a flight from Phnom Penh to Seattle, then Seattle is the place of refuge and it must indeed be granted. If it’s to walk from one Central American country to another, then it’s the first safe place that is reached.
Mexico is a safe country for those fleeing specific horrors in Central America. Thus that’s where that refuge should be sought. And, as it happens, yes, seeking such asylum beyond that first safe place reached is indeed a breach of these rules. Perhaps it's not quite a crime, but uNOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by captaincrunch:Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Here you go buddy: https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/the-simple-thing-alexandria
-ocasio-cortez-doesnt-get-about-the-migrant-caravan
I'm sure you guys LOVE her. Been called a Nazi countless times by almost all of you since Trump was elected. Further trivializing what the Jews went through during WWII by comparing economic "refugees" looking for free handouts and storming our border while waving their own country's flag should be right up your ally.
You're such a simpleton.
Communist says what?
Do Right, Be Right. :)
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https://jewishweek.timesofisrael.com/jewish-democrats-contend-with-a-w
ave-of-progressives-who-criticize-israel/
She's the type of person that Alyssa Milano and Debra Messing have just come out against and said they would no longer be a part of the Woman's March movement until they either step down or denounce the antisemitism that plagues the top tiers of the movement.
This is your party now. Throwing around the word Nazi to anybody who disagrees with you out of one side of your face while actively engaging in antisemitism on the other.
Your'e a bunch of clowns.
BTW... Where's reaverfan? I haven't heard from him since CNN has come out and called Antifa a violent fringe movement.
Do Right, Be Right. :)
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Quote:
Originally posted by captaincrunch:Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
I'm even going to do something that I rarely ever do here, which is post the article in full. It was that good.
I don't see any quotes from her...? How come? You think that would be the first thing they'd do. Curious. We're just suppose to believe what this person thinks she said or meant?
Ah, I see her tweet about it and I see nothing wrong with it, maybe you can explain.
I find it too funny in a sad way, that the party of, "Jews will not replace us!" is now defending Jews in a nothing story. You guys are desperate morons.
No need to quote all of Jacks nonsense so I'll get right to the point. Their sickness is complete G.
T
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Quote:It's the same stand I had before the 2016 election. Since I haven't changed it, I guess it IS pretty strong! But it' also why your (collective) arguments with "Trump supporters" who "believe" Trump kinda piss me off ... basically, you're arguing with someone who doesn't exist; at least not me.
Way to take a strong stand!-GSTRING
Quote:
You and SIG are the greatest offenders here when it comes to not providing citations for where you "heard" things. - GSTRING
CITES?
LINKS?
Now. Do you suppose you can actually DISCUSS ISSUES instead of making PERSONAL ATTACKS? Or is that beyond you?
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND
America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .
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Quote:Here G-String reveals his common Libtard Delusion. A Libtard's Delusional Political Opinion must be considered Fact, while actual Real World FACTS are merely opinions for them to ignore.
Originally posted by captaincrunch:Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
A simple search for "ocasio Cortez holocaust border" generated pages of spot on results.
That's not the point, dill weed. You showing what link you are quoting tells us what your source is. If it's Fux it's Sh*t. It also gives us a chance to see if you quoted accurately or made sh*t up, which a number of your clown team often do.Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
So sorry that algore's interwebs invention is too complicated for you to do basic tasks.
You mean like searching for "how many elephants are killed each day?"
You see the difference? One is a political opinion that you are presenting as fact, and the other is just a search for facts and data. Sources for the first are much more important (shouldn't have to explain such basic sh*t).
The Fact that somebody said words is, to them, an Opinion. The Fact that something that happened (spoke words, posted a twit) actually did happen is merely an Opinion of the reasonable people who oppose Libtards. Actual real Facts are, to them, just Opinion.
How can any reasonable, rational person imagine that they can effectively communicate with such an immensely flawed basis of comprehension which defines Libtards?
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Quote:
Originally posted by SIGHOLE:Quote:
You and SIG are the greatest offenders here when it comes to not providing citations for where you "heard" things.
CITES?
LINKS?
SURE!
JSF: In this thread
I heard today that AO-C stated that Border Enforcement and Integrity is the same as Nazi Holocaust.
JACK: http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=62745
We're talking about 4,000 people (or 14,000 now I've heard) walking thousands of miles, with children, who always seem to be wearing brand new clothes and don't look to be going hungry.
JSF: ^same thread
I heard there is supposed to be a special crossover unified episode of this show.
SIGHOLE: http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=62745&p=5
Most of the anti-illegal pro-Trump comments that I heard that were by LEGAL IMMIGRANTS ... who emigrated from Japan, Taiwan, Burma, China, Hungary, Mexico, Armenia etc.
SIGHOLE: http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=62813
For example, I have heard - more than once- that the NSA has a giant database of illegally-gathered information on pretty much everyone of any importance/ interest (Remember that big data center in Utah?
Quote:
Originally posted by SIGHOLE:
Now. Do you suppose you can actually DISCUSS ISSUES instead of making PERSONAL ATTACKS? Or is that beyond you?
I can do both, actually.
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Quote:I HEARD these personally, from the individuals themselves. I have mentioned them before: the Japanese-English professional translator that I walk dogs with; the Taiwanese, Burmese, and Chinese technicians and chemists with whom I worked; the Chinese wife of one of my "white-boy" colleagues who was livid about the scams that Chinese immigrants pull; hubby's Armenian and Mexican colleagues. Sorry, but there is no way in hell I can provide links to anything they said.
Most of the anti-illegal pro-Trump comments that I heard that were by LEGAL IMMIGRANTS ... who emigrated from Japan, Taiwan, Burma, China, Hungary, Mexico, Armenia etc.- SIGNY
Quote:I've also posted about the NSA database before, WITH THE APPROPRIATE LINKS. If you want a link ... AGAIN ... here is another one.
For example, I have heard - more than once- that the NSA has a giant database of illegally-gathered information on pretty much everyone of any importance/ interest (Remember that big data center in Utah?)
Quote:
Explosive Revelation of Obama Administration Illegal Surveillance of Americans
https://www.nationalreview.com/2017/05/nsa-illegal-surveillance-americ
ans-obama-administration-abuse-fisa-court-response/
So I'll go back to your original comment, with which I agree:
YOU HAVEN'T A CLUE WHAT I'M POSTING ABOUT. That is probably the one factual thing you've ever posted.
*****
ALSO, I'd like to add: It seems you'll do ANYTHING to avoid discussing the topic. And so I have to wonder: What the hell is wrong with you, boy? You've had more than one oppty to derail yourself from this grudge-match that you seem bent on, and yet you can't seem to let it go.
Let it go. Be the change you wish to see. Let it begin with you.
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND
America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .
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So I guess none of you want to discuss the platform of a politician that you support?
Huh. Why is that?
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND
America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .
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First to begin (as a former co-worker use to say), you are an impatient person, aren't you?
To be honest, I didn't know much about AO-C, just heard about her here and there, before I began to follow her in late summer, early fall. But I'm beginning to understand why she has made an impact and, hopefully, will continue to do so. I'm attaching a video of a recent interview, I found her to be well spoken and intelligent, and very energetic. I can see why Fox and the right are singling her out.
I know that she's a disciple of Bernie Sanders (I'm not quite convinced about him and find him a bit tedious), but I get the feeling she follows her gut more than anything. As far as her platform goes, it is an ambitious undertaking and may seem a bit naive, but I like her spirit; she has a "damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead" attitude. I like that. And she's not easily
scared off by criticism and ridicule (Fox learned that).
Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
So I guess none of you want to discuss the platform of a politician that you support?
Huh. Why is that?
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND
America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .
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Captain,
This is much more an opinion piece than a news article, and, as I glossed over it, had some "interesting" things to say, I didn't fully understand, but interesting nonetheless. Weird to say the least.
sgg
Quote:
Originally posted by captaincrunch:Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
I'm even going to do something that I rarely ever do here, which is post the article in full. It was that good.Quote:
Rep.-elect Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, D-N.Y., has managed to, once again, show up quite how little she knows about the world. In this case, it’s concerning that migrant caravan knocking at the unopened door in Tijuana, Mexico. We do actually have international law on this subject and it says that they don’t have the right of entry to the U.S. — not even as refugees, and especially not as asylum seekers.
In the process, she has managed to show how little she grasps of history too. Her comparison of Central Americans to Jewish refugees running from Hitler forgets what was actually done to those very refugees fleeing the Holocaust.
I should note that I’m entirely in favor of young women in politics, just as I am of any other activity that 50 percent of the species might want to perform in the flower of their youth. It’s Ocasio-Cortez that I have a problem with.
She tells us that asking to be considered a refugee isn’t a crime. Well, that’s not quite wholly and entirely true these days. But to then compare this to it not having been a crime for Jewish refugees causes a certain enragement.
What did actually happen to Jewish refugees from Germany and Austria? The U.S. maintained its strict controls on the number of migrants it would accept in those years up to entry into the war in 1941. There was also no difference made between simple migrants and refugees. Thus, with strict numerical controls on who could come, many couldn’t and thereby perished.
Actually, it was worse than this. One shipload on a ship named the St. Louis actually arrived but were sent back to Europe. Those who went back to mainland Europe then largely did die in the Holocaust. The U.S. took no part in the Kindertransport that saved tens of thousands of children (one of the finest TV clips you’ll ever see is on this subject) to the shame of the administration of the time, that of the great liberal President Franklin Roosevelt. It’s thought this resulted in 20,000 extra deaths.
Not knowing all this shows Ocasio-Cortez’s knowledge of history. Of course, after all of these events, we all had a look around the world and decided that we ought to do it differently. Which we do today, as apparently Ocasio-Cortez doesn’t know. Perhaps this is just my mansplaining ways, but I would hope that public pontification concerning the rights of asylum-seekers and refugees would at least be lightly informed by the rights of asylum-seekers and refugees under the international law which governs those rights — which is that there is no right for them to enter the U.S. at all.
Assume that they really are in fear of their lives in their home countries. Under the usual international conventions, they thus have a right (note, a right, an absolute one) to be welcomed into a safe country. This is as it should be if only on that reciprocal basis that we, or some of ours, might need that refuge at some point. There is little to no distinction made about why this right might exist. Issues of gender, sexuality, political activity, race, religion — the distinction isn’t really made. You’re in well-founded fear to your life and safety? You have that right, again right, to refuge. This is just.
However, it comes with a caveat. You must seek and accept that right in the first safe place you can reach. No, it doesn’t have to be geographically adjacent, it’s the first you can reach. If the path to safety is a flight from Phnom Penh to Seattle, then Seattle is the place of refuge and it must indeed be granted. If it’s to walk from one Central American country to another, then it’s the first safe place that is reached.NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:Yes I am. Sorry.
First to begin (as a former co-worker use to say), you are an impatient person, aren't you?
Quote:I don't know much about here myself, but I think every single one of her "planks" deserves deep, deep discussion. Not because "she" is so interesting but because the discussion would help us understand each other better. As I mentioned, there are points that I support, there are points that I provisionally support (yes, but only if ....) and points that I disagree with.
To be honest, I didn't know much about AO-C, just heard about her here and there, before I began to follow her in late summer, early fall. But I'm beginning to understand why she has made an impact and, hopefully, will continue to do so. I'm attaching a video of a recent interview, I found her to be well spoken and intelligent, and very energetic. I can see why Fox and the right are singling her out.
I know that she's a disciple of Bernie Sanders (I'm not quite convinced about him and find him a bit tedious), but I get the feeling she follows her gut more than anything. As far as her platform goes, it is an ambitious undertaking and may seem a bit naive, but I like her spirit; she has a "damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead" attitude. I like that. And she's not easily scared off by criticism and ridicule (Fox learned that).
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND
America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .
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Quote:
I don't know much about here myself, but I think every single one of her "planks" deserves deep, deep discussion. Not because "she" is so interesting but because the discussion would help us understand each other better. As I mentioned, there are points that I support, there are points that I provisionally support (yes, but only if ....) and points that I disagree with.
Okay, I think we have a discussion going on here. I'm not sure how "deep" I want to go here at this site...you see, for me, a truly deep discussion is better served in a face-to-face meeting where we could "argue" her planks and
our take on said planks. But that's me. There's only so much that can be
"argued" on a site like this - a conversation is much more free flowing and
generally more satisfying (again, my preference). But, having said that, I willing to give it a shot.
First, I need to go back and read over her platform again to get a better grip as to her approach. I must say that this is my first foray into a "progressive" platform, and so I am still learning about it as I go.
Well, democracy who knew. Listen, I gotta go (I'm at work), but I'm will look to comment on her platform piecemeal, meaning one topic at a time (work's been
really busy this last month, and I expect it to stay that way until right before the holiday).
SGG
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Quote:
First to begin (as a former co-worker use to say), you are an impatient person, aren't you?
Yes I am. Sorry.
I almost forgot to respond to this. Just an observation and not meant as a criticism. I too get impatient from time to time, it all depends upon who and what. Anyway, such is life.
SGG
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I saw mention that there was confusion about this list, so I am reposting this, from the first couple posts:
Quote:Transcribing:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
1. Medicare for all.
2. Housing as a human right.
3. A Federal jobs guarantee.
4. Gun control / assault weapons ban.
5. Criminal Justice Reform, end private prisons.
6. Immigration justice / abolish ICE.
7. Solidarity with Puerto Rico.
8. Mobilizing against climate change.
9. Clean campaign finance.
10. Higher education For all.
11. Women's rights.
12. Support LGBTQIA+.
13. Support seniors.
14. Curb wall Street gambling: restore glass steagal.
Added:
15. A peace economy.
I might be able to get behind #5. But she will certainly not have a solution.
But why are these missing:
Climate Justice.
Men's Rights.
Universal Government Handouts, Dependency on The Nanny State for All.
Federal Income Guarantee.
Federal Hot Wife/Boytoy Guarantee.
Federal Phone Guarantee.
Federal Cable Guarantee.
Federal Car Guarantee.
Support heteros.
Basic Education for All.
And won't mobilizing create more pollution?
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Healthcare - from Wikipedia
Quote:
She (sic) supports transitioning to a single-payer healthcare system, calling healthcare a human right. She says that a single government insurer should ensure that every American has insurance, while reducing costs overall. On her campaign website, Ocasio-Cortez says "Almost every other developed nation in the world has universal healthcare. It's time the United States catch up to the rest of the world in ensuring all people have real healthcare coverage that doesn't break the bank."
I too believe in Universal Healthcare, like the type they have in Canada (if it's good enough for Sarah Palin...). Okay that's an easy one.
Immigration
Ocasio-Cortez supports a "path to citizenship" for immigrants who entered the United States legally and illegally (I share in her thoughts on this).
She supports abolishing the U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement agency (ICE), calling it "a product of the Bush-era Patriot Act suite of legislation" and "an enforcement agency that takes on more of a paramilitary tone every single day" (Again, I share in her views of ICE and the current immigration policy of this administration, if you could call it that).
She later clarified that this does not mean abolishing deportations (Again, agree). She has called immigration detention centers operated by the Department of Homeland Security "black sites", citing limited public access
to those locations (Agree. We should have an elected official or Immigration Czar - no pun intended - running the Immigration Department that responds solely to Congress. There should be public access and any detention of children should have proper psychoanalysis and must meet certain mental health requirements. Any children held in any detention center must be allowed to see their parents on a weekly basis while immigration status is being considered
by Immigration officials and judges).
Any abuse, physical or otherwise, should be dealt with immediately, for any and all involved regardless of position or condition.
I also want there to be a citizen process in place for all immigrants, legal or illegal. Of course, the illegals must pay a penalty, perhaps a 5 year delay in citizenship. Each should be provided work Visas that must be renewed every 7 years and they must pay taxes during that period, but no social security until they become citizens (as an incentive to the path to citizenship). The work visas would be picture and fingerprint ID, government issued. This would
limit any counterfeits (and put a stop to Republican bullshit about fake IDs).
Children born in the U.S. would also have to apply to Path to Citizenship
procedures, once they graduate from high school the clock starts counting down toward citizenship which would be 5 years, unless they pursue college, then it would be 2 years upon completion of their studies. If they join the armed forces - then 3 years. For each 7-year period of having a work visa, all must pay a $500 fee to continue to work in the U.S. If they go 21 years with a work visa and do not apply for citizenship; then it will extend by 5 years for legal immigrants and 7 years for illegal immigrants plus a $1000 fee.
The work visas shall afford all immigrants, both legal and illegal, the right to be paid minimum wage, according to labor laws.
That's my take on immigration, I'm not entirely sure what her take on Path To Citizen is, but there you have it. Well, at least some of my ideas. Let me share something with you regarding immigrants and their economic contributions; this for people who think that they just take, take, take.
The Economics of Immigration: Crash Course Econ #33
or this:
What If Robert Reich Told You That Immigration Reform Would SAVE Our Economy?
SGG
Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:Quote:
First to begin (as a former co-worker use to say), you are an impaNOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Did you read this part of the article?
Quote:
Using Israel as a political blunt instrument is nothing new in American politics. What is new and particularly dangerous is today’s spirit of unrestrained and bitter partisanship that sees no goals beyond narrow political gain, no tactic beyond the pale. And what’s new is an Israeli prime minister who has so closely tied himself to one American political party and to a president many see as aggressively working to widen the partisan divide.
Or this?:
Quote:
It is fully appropriate to challenge Democrats whose support may be waning, and to aggressively fight those who are hostile. Whenever possible, though, the goal should be to stem the ebbing tide of support through education and persuasion, not build an ever-longer enemies list. Making unqualified support for every Israeli policy the benchmark of what it means to be “pro-Israel,” and using that in the partisan wars, can only hurt a Jewish state that needs the broadest possible support in Washington.
Quote:
Ms. Ocasio-Cortez’s stunning upset and indications that Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.), who has ratcheted up his own criticism of Israeli policy in Gaza, is setting the stage for another presidential run are matters of legitimate concern for pro-Israel leaders. There is little question that a major battle is shaping up for control of the party as it seeks an effective response to a GOP now fully committed to the Trump agenda.
Israel is worried about the Trump Agenda.
Quote:
But Jewish leaders need to be careful to avoid buying into Republican efforts to castigate the entire Democratic Party as “anti-Israel,” and every Democratic politician who voices any criticism as symptomatic of a raging anti-Israel virus. Just as critical, they cannot afford to write off a progressive electorate that still may include a majority of American Jews.
American electorate, including Jews, involved in the Progressive party...Hmmmmmmm
Quote:
Doing so would put many Jews in the position of having to choose between their values on core, close-to-home issues such as civil rights and economic justice and an Israel that is increasingly remote and troubling to some.
What are they saying, that maybe American Jews should consider some of the criticisms?
Quote:
Strong U.S-Israel ties need the active involvement of Democrats and Republicans, liberals and conservatives.
Now there's an interesting philosophy. Consider all comers and valid criticisms. This article speaks volumes.
Quote:
When support sags, the first goal should be to revive it, not wall off and punish those deemed not fully supportive. The success of a lobby rests not only in who it successfully fights, but who it wins over.
Well, it seems that our Jewish friends have given this some thought.
Quote:
That’s a message the current leadership in Jerusalem needs to take to heart, as well.
Makes a good point. Not everyone that criticizes Israel is out for blood.
Note: criticism of government policy is not anti-semitism.
What was that saying again: Blut und Boden.
Oh, and there was that little slogan:
"Jews will not replace us" - now that there is anti-semitic.
SGG
Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
https://jewishweek.timesofisrael.com/jewish-democrats-contend-with-a-w
ave-of-progressives-who-criticize-israel/
She's the type of person that Alyssa Milano and Debra Messing have just come out against and said they would no longer be a part of the Woman's March movement until they either step down or denounce the antisemitism that plagues the top tiers of the movement.
This is your party now. Throwing around the word Nazi to anybody who disagrees with you out of one side of your face while actively engaging in antisemitism on the other.
Your'e a bunch of clowns.
BTW... Where's reaverfan? I haven't heard from him since CNN has come out and called Antifa a violent fringe movement.
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Quote:
She (sic) supports transitioning to a single-payer healthcare system, calling healthcare a human right. She says that a single government insurer should ensure that every American has insurance, while reducing costs overall. On her campaign website, Ocasio-Cortez says "Almost every other developed nation in the world has universal healthcare. It's time the United States catch up to the rest of the world in ensuring all people have real healthcare coverage that doesn't break the bank." I too believe in Universal Healthcare, like the type they have in Canada (if it's good enough for Sarah Palin...). Okay that's an easy one.
I agree with most of that. However, it's not because I think that healthcare is a human right, but because OUR COSTS on healthcare are distorting our entire economy, similarly to our military costs. When you see one sector taking up a disproportionate share of an economy for piss-poor results, it's time to step in.
There are two possible solutions to the problem:
1) Government takeover of healthcare, displacing the cartel-like parasitic insurances, pharmaceuticals, and healthcare corporations which dominate the system, or
2) Aggressive breakup of the oligopolies which make up health care. I've never seen a breakup accomplish what it was supposed to ... instead of paying Ma Bell for phone service I now pay T-mobile AND Spectrum twenty times as much. But if someone can tell me how to break up insurances, hospital corporations and big pharma into competitive units, and make it stick, I'm all ears!
Quote:To some extent, I do too. But this path IMHO should only be open to long-term residents (20+ years or more) otherwise you just create ANOTHER incentive to rush the border! Right?
Immigration
Ocasio-Cortez supports a "path to citizenship" for immigrants who entered the United States legally and illegally (I share in her thoughts on this).
IN ADDITION, people should not be given the "option" to apply for citizenship, but a "mandate" ... on pain of deportation. Otherwise, what happens to the people who DON'T choose citizenship? Are they allowed to stay? What status are they?? And if they obtain some sort of semi-legal status. without the pain and bother of becoming citizens, we have created just another amnesty program which is yet another incentive for people sliding past their obligations to the nation is which they've chosen to earn a living. Frankly, I don't think it's in the USA's best interest to have a large group of ambiguously-loyal people living and working in the USA.
Quote:Whether you call it "ICE" or "Immigration" or whatever, it is merely a reflection of the policies that it's been charged to enforce. Change the policies, and the organization changes. Getting rid of ICE is pointless.
She supports abolishing the U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement agency (ICE), calling it "a product of the Bush-era Patriot Act suite of legislation" and "an enforcement agency that takes on more of a paramilitary tone every single day" (Again, I share in her views of ICE and the current immigration policy of this administration, if you could call it that).
Now, tell me which policies you disagree with.
Quote:"And must meet certain mental health requirements"
She later clarified that this does not mean abolishing deportations (Again, agree). She has called immigration detention centers operated by the Department of Homeland Security "black sites", citing limited public access to those locations (Agree. We should have an elected official or Immigration Czar - no pun intended - running the Immigration Department that responds solely to Congress. There should be public access and any detention of children should have proper psychoanalysis and must meet certain mental health requirements.
... or what? If the children don't meet certain mental health requirem
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So, SHINY, unfortunately this board doesn't support tabs and columns to make an example clear, but let me just toss out a few ideas to sketch out my ideas>
CITIZENS (ADULTS)
Responsibilities: Obey the law, pay taxes, defend the nation if necessary
Rights: Full Constitutional protections (free speech, habeas corpus, privacy, gun ownership, equality etc), vote, enter contracts etc
Consequences for failure: fine and/or jail after lawful proceedings
CITIZENS (MINORS)
Responsibilities: Obey the law
Rights: To be taken care of by a responsible adult, Constitutional protections for criminal proceedings
Consequences: detention or other actions after lawful proceedings
VISA-HOLDERS (ADULTS)
Responsibilities: Obey USA law; pay taxes, conform to the requirements of the visa
Rights: Full Constitutional protections EXCEPT in immigration matters, in which case violations will be tried in civil court
Consequences: fines, jail time, or deportation
See what I mean? That way, if you can do a cross-column comparison you won't accidentally wind up benefiting one "lesser" category over another one.
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Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND
America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .
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Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:Quote:
She (sic) supports transitioning to a single-payer healthcare system, calling healthcare a human right. She says that a single government insurer should ensure that every American has insurance, while reducing costs overall. On her campaign website, Ocasio-Cortez says "Almost every other developed nation in the world has universal healthcare. It's time the United States catch up to the rest of the world in ensuring all people have real healthcare coverage that doesn't break the bank." I too believe in Universal Healthcare, like the type they have in Canada (if it's good enough for Sarah Palin...). Okay that's an easy one.
I agree with most of that. However, it's not because I think that healthcare is a human right, but because OUR COSTS on healthcare are distorting our entire economy, similarly to our military costs. When you see one sector taking up a disproportionate share of an economy for piss-poor results, it's time to step in.
There are two possible solutions to the problem:
1) Government takeover of healthcare, displacing the cartel-like parasitic insurances, pharmaceuticals, and healthcare corporations which dominate the system, or
2) Aggressive breakup of the oligopolies which make up health care. I've never seen a breakup accomplish what it was supposed to ... instead of paying Ma Bell for phone service I now pay T-mobile AND Spectrum twenty times as much. But if someone can tell me how to break up insurances, hospital corporations and big pharma into competitive units, and make it stick, I'm all ears!Quote:To some extent, I do too. But this path IMHO should only be open to long-term residents (20+ years or more) otherwise you just create ANOTHER incentive to rush the border! Right?
Immigration
Ocasio-Cortez supports a "path to citizenship" for immigrants who entered the United States legally and illegally (I share in her thoughts on this).
IN ADDITION, people should not be given the "option" to apply for citizenship, but a "mandate" ... on pain of deportation. Otherwise, what happens to the people who DON'T choose citizenship? Are they allowed to stay? What status are they?? And if they obtain some sort of semi-legal status. without the pain and bother of becoming citizens, we have created just another amnesty program which is yet another incentive for people sliding past their obligations to the nation is which they've chosen to earn a living. Frankly, I don't think it's in the USA's best interest to have a large group of ambiguously-loyal people living and working in the USA.Quote:Whether you call it "ICE" or "Immigration" or whatever, it is merely a reflection of the policies that it's been charged to enforce. Change the policies, and the organization changes. Getting rid of ICE is pointless.
She supports abolishing the U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement agency (ICE), calling it "a product of the Bush-era Patriot Act suite of legislation" and "an enforcement agency that takes on more of a paramilitary tone every single day" (Again, I share in her views of ICE and the current immigration policy of this administration, if you could call it that).
Now, tell me which policies you disagree with.Quote:"And must meet certain mental health requirements"
She later clarified that this does not mean abolishing deportations (Again, agree). She has called immigration detention centers operated by the Department of Homeland Security "black sites", citing limited public access to those locations (Agree. We should have an elected official or Immigration Czar - no pun intended - running the Immigration Department that responds solely to Congress. There should be public access and any detention of children should have proper psychoanalysis and must meet certain mental health requirements.
... or what? If the children don&#NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
From 1846 to 1848, Mexico and the United States warred over Texas, California and what today is the American Southwest but was then part of Mexico. During this war, US. troops invaded and occupied parts of Mexico, including Veracruz and Mexico City.
... 1914 to 1917: Mexico conflict and Pancho Villa Expedition, U.S. troops entering northern portion of Mexico... and occupying Veracruz for six months
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND
America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .
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Quote:Hmmmm.
Originally posted by SIGNYM:Quote:
From 1846 to 1848, Mexico and the United States warred over Texas, California and what today is the American Southwest but was then part of Mexico. During this war, US. troops invaded and occupied parts of Mexico, including Veracruz and Mexico City.
... 1914 to 1917: Mexico conflict and Pancho Villa Expedition, U.S. troops entering northern portion of Mexico... and occupying Veracruz for six months
So, Mexico was recognized as Independent Nation in 1836, when Texas seceded as Independent Republic, in favor of becoming a United State. Due to Slavery issues, United States were reluctant to admit Texas until Texas Slaves were emancipated. United States had Declared Independence 60 years prior. Mexico also immediately confiscated all Church properties in current California.
During 10 years of Texas Independence, British and French negotiated and tried to finagle power and land in the region, to the Pacific Coast. Mexico refused to recognize Texas Independence.
Texas was finally able to gain admittance to The Union as a State in 1945/46. The United States also tried to negotiate purchase of land out to the Pacific, but the Mexico leadership changed hands between 4 and 25 times in 1 year.
In 1946 Mexico invaded The United States across the border of Rio Grande. United States responded by declaring War, to defend against Invasion.
To block attempts by British and French forces to take control of California, US quickly occupied the area during War Footing.
The Hidalgo Treaty consummated the transfer of land to USA, paid for, and also assuming Mexico Debt to Americans (from Mexican War of Independence).
So, you say that Mexico invading the United States is an example of USA meddling in Mexico affairs?
The Mexican Revolutionary War spanned 1910-1920. In 1914 the Mexican Federal Army was dissolved. Then Warmonger President Wilson ordered a blockade of a German ship of arms at Veracruz.
In 1916, amidst The World War to End all Wars, Pancho Villa invaded, attacked and plundered in New Mexico. And killed 16 American Citizens during a train attack.
Wilson responded by ordering Pershing to capture Villa, and Villa went into hiding and evading.
So, you consider Revolutionary Villa's invasion across the USA border amidst World War I to be America meddling in Mexico affairs?
Anything more recent than 101 years ago, or absent from Mexico arguing with itself?
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