Ocasio-Cortez' wish-list
POSTED BY: SIGNYM
UPDATED: Friday, October 14, 2022 12:42
VIEWED: 26648
PAGE 2 of 4
Quote:This is not a complete response, which I still need to get to, but I was reminded about this:
Originally posted by 1kiki:Quote:UH ... what areas in today's elementary school grads are lacking compared to 1895? I'd be interested in specifics.
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
The Department of Educamation has made so much improvement in re-education that a College Degree has been required in MA to work at McDonald's.
Remember, 70% of today's College Graduates cannot pass a test to graduate the 8th Grade from 1895.Quote:Perhaps you could elucidate. I know you think that just because Trump got elected it instantly improved unemployment. But overall, the overall civilian labor force participation rates haven't improved according to the BLS. https://www.bls.gov/charts/employment-situation/civilian-lab
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
And if there are not enough jobs, then why did everybody just vote against jobs in the election? Why are Dems campaigning against jobs, campaigning to get rid of jobs? AO-C is the spokesbimbo for the party that hates jobs and works against having more jobs - such comprehension does not compute.
or-force-participation-rate.htm And though the Brookings Institute has a different message about a limited population, it has figures not found in the raw BLS breakdown. https://www.brookings.edu/blog/up-front/2018/08/02/the-rec
ent-rebound-in-prime-age-labor-force-participation/ Meanwhile, Forbes indicates even less participation that the BLS. https://www.forbes.com/sites/eriksherman/2018/05/05/sur
e-unemployment-went-down-because-the-number-of-people-working-did/ Meanwhile, the WSJ reports a persistently long-term lower participation rate with only insignificant variation (I assume they got their numbers from the BLS). https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/august-2018-jobs-report
-analysis/card/1536324110
What do you make of these figures?
In 1980, when the Department of Educamation was created to dumb down all American children, the United States was ranked 2nd in the world in Education, behind only Australia. Since then DoE Libtards have successfully degraded American Education consistently and constantly.
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T 
President Donald Trump Lags In Two Economic Goals
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Don't laws already exist in the books covering "ideas." I know that deportation exists because right wingers took to calling Obama the Deporter-in-Chief. As I understand it, immigrants already pay taxes and they help stimualte the economy.
Besides, the ones breaking the law are the employers who hire undocumented workers.
Granted, lawbreakers should be punished, all and any. Any immigrant caught breaking the law goes back to square one, of course, depending upon the crime committed.
SGG
Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
So, SHINY, unfortunately this board doesn't support tabs and columns to make an example clear, but let me just toss out a few ideas to sketch out my ideas>
CITIZENS (ADULTS)
Responsibilities: Obey the law, pay taxes, defend the nation if necessary
Rights: Full Constitutional protections (free speech, habeas corpus, privacy, gun ownership, equality etc), vote, enter contracts etc
Consequences for failure: fine and/or jail after lawful proceedings
CITIZENS (MINORS)
Responsibilities: Obey the law
Rights: To be taken care of by a responsible adult, Constitutional protections for criminal proceedings
Consequences: detention or other actions after lawful proceedings
VISA-HOLDERS (ADULTS)
Responsibilities: Obey USA law; pay taxes, conform to the requirements of the visa
Rights: Full Constitutional protections EXCEPT in immigration matters, in which case violations will be tried in civil court
Consequences: fines, jail time, or deportation
See what I mean? That way, if you can do a cross-column comparison you won't accidentally wind up benefiting one "lesser" category over another one.
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND
America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .
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Quote:
See what I mean? That way, if you can do a cross-column comparison you won't accidentally wind up benefiting one "lesser" category over another one.
I wanted to respond to this as a sidebar:
I'm not sure what you mean lesser category, but I'm going to assume it has more to do with the columns, and less so with the category of people.
My suggestions, as with most of these matters, are submitted purely in layman terms than that of an expert (of which I am not). Having said that, it seems to me that much of our discussion leans heavily towards our individual experiences out there in the world, than by any professional, or educational,
ones.
Truth be told, I am hoping that this latest Blue Wave has a positive impact on the body politic. We, as a nation, can no longer afford stagnation because, as shocking as it may seem, there are those out there looking forward to our downfall (or at the very least, stumble) in regards to our standing as a shining example. Laugh if you will, but that notion of the U.S. as a moral compass does exist, no matter how misguided or overblown.
This is just my observation from current events around the world. But right here at home, our country has been steadily declining while these bumbling idiots continue to point at the opposition placing blame. Fuck that! Let's get something done instead of assigning blame. We have been slowly falling behind
as we continue to argue among ourselves. The greedy get richer, while the rest of us suffer in silence. Let's start by righting the ship, then focus on upgrading our infrastructure. Who the fuck gives a shit who rebuilds the country, it's all to our mutual benefit. Stop listening to and believing the
scumbags who say that this country is being invaded.
Look at the history of this country, and you'll see we are all immigrants. This recording has been played before, over and over again. That tune they're
playing, look who's playing DJ. Those that stand to benefit the most, the rich. That's how they became rich and how they're going to stay rich. Think
about it! Anytime a new influx of immigrants hit our shores - propaganda rears it's ugly head.
First it was the blacks, then Irish, then Italians, and Puerto Ricans etc.
New cheap labor. The new kid on the block. The media of the day would gin up the established labor by pointing at who was replacing them, blaming them for pushing out the established Americans. Who's doing the hiring? Is it you or me, the average Joe, No. It's the corporation or Big Boss looking to hire
the immigrant and pay them less because they are not established or savvy enough to know they are being used. And so is the established worker, he's being tossed aside. Want proof? Look at the history of the unions.
This latest immigrant bullshit is just that, a load of bullshit with a new fresh coat of paint. But it's the same old story...it's s.s.d.d. - same shit, different day. Bottom line, we need Immigration law to be brought forward to the 21st Century, but we must work with folk to benefit the nation in a fair and responsible way. The Republicans currently in Congress have far too much skin in the game to be fair and responsible in producing those laws, in other words, too many owners of businesses to help the nation. And I do mean the nation, not just a handful of people, the keeper of the keys.
SGG
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Quote:If you were to categorize people as ...
See what I mean? That way, if you can do a cross-column comparison you won't accidentally wind up benefiting one "lesser" category over another one.- SIGNY
I wanted to respond to this as a sidebar:
I'm not sure what you mean lesser category, but I'm going to assume it has more to do with the columns, and less so with the category of people.- SHINY
Citizens/naturalized citizens
Valid visa holders
Those requesting citizenship thru the front door
Those requesting asylum status thru the front door
Illegal immigrants
... you don't want to grant people further down on the list more rights, or burden those higher up on the list with more duties, otherwise you're simply rewarding illegal immigration.
Quote:Not sure that I agree. I have SOME experience in policy-making; also in programming. In some ways, they're very similar. One of the things you don't want to do when creating a policy is to create unintended consequences.
My suggestions, as with most of these matters, are submitted purely in layman terms than that of an expert (of which I am not). Having said that, it seems to me that much of our discussion leans heavily towards our individual experiences out there in the world, than by any professional, or educational, ones.
Quote:I think first of all, that MOST people in the world no longer think that USA is a shining example of anything except hypocrisy, especially after we destroyed nation after nation in quick succession. If you were to take a poll across the world and ask what the biggest risk is, the "USA" comes up more often than any other answer. And the LEADERS of other nations sure have no illusions about the USA!
Truth be told, I am hoping that this latest Blue Wave has a positive impact on the body politic. We, as a nation, can no longer afford stagnation because, as shocking as it may seem, there are those out there looking forward to our downfall (or at the very least, stumble) in regards to our standing as a shining example. Laugh if you will, but that notion of the U.S. as a moral compass does exist, no matter how misguided or overblown.- SHINY
But assuming that some people really do think of us as a shining example of "something" (BTW you never specified what that something is) ... What do you think would happen if the USA were to lose its "shining example" status? Would we be militarily invaded? Fail economically?
Quote:Bringing in cheap labor to destroy our labor market is exactly how "the greedy get richer". Who do you think came up with that plan in the first place?
This is just my observation from current events around the world. But right here at home, our country has been steadily declining while these bumbling idiots continue to point at the opposition placing blame. Fuck that! Let's get something done instead of assigning blame. We have been slowly falling behind as we continue to argue among ourselves. The greedy get richer, while the rest of us suffer in silence. Let's start by righting the ship, then focus on upgrading our infrastructure. Who the fuck gives a shit who rebuilds the country, it's all to our mutual benefit. Stop listening to and believing the scumbags who say that this country is being invaded.
Quote:The immigrants have ALWAYS been used to make the wealthy even more wealthy. They were exploited in sweatshops and coal mines for decades while the wealthy sailed on. The "Gilded Age" was made on their backs.
Look at the history of this country, and you'll see we are all immigrants. This recording has been played before, over and over again. That tune they're
playing, look who's playing DJ. Those that stand to benefit the most, the rich. That's how they became rich and how they're going to stay rich. Think about it! Anytime a new influx of immigrants hit our shores - propaganda rears it's ugly head.
We are no longer a na
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I heard AO-C ran into a buzz saw on The View. Even Whoopi Goldstein was ranting against AO-C. Always funny when fat old delusionals demand that hottie youngsters must conform to the expectations of the Old Fogies instead of thinking for themselves.
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Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
I heard AO-C ran into a buzz saw on The View. Even Whoopi Goldstein was ranting against AO-C. Always funny when fat old delusionals demand that hottie youngsters must conform to the expectations of the Old Fogies instead of thinking for themselves.
I don't think that's what happened.
What this perfectly puts on display for everyone is just how far extremist Left the Left has gone in the last 15 or so years.
Whoopi was pretty far to the left herself back in the 90's. Jenny from the Block just allowed Whoopi the opportunity to sound completely sane and rational.
I liked the Sister Act movies. Maybe this is a stunt to get Sister Act III finally made. I'll only watch it if they get Lauryn Hill to come back. Her voice made that sequel.
Do Right, Be Right. :)
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That's a brilliant list, and exactly what we need for a safe and prosperous America.
She's awesome!
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Here is my detailed response to her list
Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Thanks for the transcription.Quote:Yes. But. It needs reform on how services are paid (I've been told that Medicare pays for each procedure eg "skin ulcer debridement", which doesn't reward doctors for treating the whole patient and root causes of disease eg "weight loss for diabetic control") plus it needs to be better-funded and it needs to negotiate better drug prices.
1. Medicare for all.Quote:Not possible. How can the government possibly fund this during real estate bubbles?
2. Housing as a human right.
Quote:Great!!
3. A Federal jobs guarantee.
FUNDING???Quote:Universal registration.
4. Gun control / assault weapons ban.Quote:This I can agree with.
5. Criminal Justice Reform, end private prisons.Quote:Good grief. Do you really want another exhaustive explanation how uncontrolled immigration is bad for us?
6. Immigration justice / abolish ICE.Quote:"Solidarity". What the hell does THAT mean? Either offer PR statehood or cut them loose (gently, over time).
7. Solidarity with Puerto Rico.Quote:"Mobilizing". ANOTHER fudgeword! Climate change needs to be addressed, both to mitigate the causes and to brace for effects.
8. Mobilizing against climate change.Quote:I've never seen campaign finance reform work. Instead, require broadcasters, web-casters, and printed media to donate a certain amount of time (or space) to each viable candidate, reverse Citizen's United, and get rid of political parties.
9. Clean campaign finance.
Quote:Why? Not everyone is college material. Not everyone "needs" a "higher" education. But people SHOULD be trained in either school or the trades.
10. Higher education For all.Quote:Equal rights for everyone. Calling out specific right for some leaves the impression that others will be denied theirs.
11. Women's rights.
12. Support LGBTQIA+.
13. Support seniors.Quote:I can agree with this one. Dodd-Frank is so complex it disadvantages smaller banks. I would also add: Have the government print its own money instead of borrowing it from The Fed (a private institution) and require 100% banking reserve. That would eliminate a lot of speculative lending.
14. Curb wall Street gambling: restore glass steagal.
The original list as shown by FOX left out one important plank: A PEACE ECONOMY.
Now, that could mean a lot of things, but whether it means that the Federal government drastically reduces its military/security-state spending, or it means an actual conversion of "wartime" production (eg missiles) to "peacetime" production (improved means of solar power storage), I'm all for it.
BUT, GIVEN HOW THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY LEADERSHIP RESPONDED TO TRUMP'S ANNOUNCED SYRIA WITHDRAWAL (like the fucking sellout warhawk/Zionist neocons that they are) it will be interesting to see how far OC gets with her plan, or whether she winds up being schooled by TPTB, like so many freshmen Congresspeople.
Also, she did not mention infrastructure and manufacturing. A nation can't have a solid future unless it can produce for itself, otherwise it becomes a dependent.
Here's a thought: An Ocasio-Cortez/Tulsi Gabbard ticket.
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND
America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .
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Fox & Friends keeps pushing misinformation about Ocasio-Cortez’s tax idea
Conservatives have consistently demonstrated that they don’t understand how taxes work — or are intentionally misrepresenting it to the public.
Ironically, she did this during an interview that focused on how Democrats supposedly don’t understand economics.
At one point, Earhardt referred to Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez’s (D-NY) idea to increase the top marginal tax rate to 70 percent. But the way Earhardt described it, she said it would result in the government “taxing 70 percent of your paycheck.”
This is, of course, not true. For one, top marginal tax rates have been much higher at other points in American history, and a 70 percent top rate might actually be low for what some economic studies suggest would be fair.
https://www.vox.com/2019/1/14/18182006/fox-friends-ocasio-cortez-margi
nal-tax-rates
T
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BTW, I think what will probably happen to Ocasio-Cortez is that she'll be given some committee membership and be absolutely ignored. ie She'll be the token lefty to satisfy populist sentiment, and get absolutely nothing accomplished.
*****
THUGR
I agree that was a wild misinterpretation of how taxes work, but I think there's a much larger problem at work with taxes. First of all, the very wealthy don't get rich from ordinary "income", they get capital gains and all of the games that go along with them. If you want to capture wealth and at the same time discourage speculation (by algos, for example) just start taxing gains made on trades that occur within one day. That'll discourage the use of algos which trade by the microsecond and make fractional gains each trade.
But capital (money) is so fluid that if you start taxing heavily, more profits will simply be transferred to tax havens. There has to be a better way for the government to collect revenues. Maybe from tariffs, direct lending, and nationalization of important resources?
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND
America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .
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Quote:No, Signym. The IRS knows perfectly well "a better way". And Congress knows perfectly well how to thwart the IRS -- by reducing it's budget for audits of the wealthy.
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
But capital (money) is so fluid that if you start taxing heavily, more profits will simply be transferred to tax havens. There has to be a better way for the government to collect revenues. Maybe from tariffs, direct lending, and nationalization of important resources?
www.foxbusiness.com/politics/irs-asks-for-extra-cash-are-americans-mor
e-at-risk-of-being-audited
www.taxcontroversy360.com/2018/03/irs-funding-woes-realized-audit-rate
-at-15-year-low/
www.forbes.com/sites/cameronkeng/2015/04/02/irs-budget-cuts-decreases-
tax-audit-for-the-wealthy-increases-audits-on-low-to-mid-income-families/
The capital gains tax rates are lower than the earned income tax rates. www.irs.gov/taxtopics/tc409
These rates should be the same and the arguments made by the wealthy to have different rates should be ignored by Congress, but won’t be. Equalizing the rates would cause exploding tax cheating by the wealthy. They will argue that enforcement should depend on the wealthy to report honestly and truthfully their incomes. That argument should also be ignored. http://fortune.com/2016/04/29/tax-evasion-cost/
I forgot to mention that during the government shutdown there are no tax audits of the wealthy. The wealthy are feeling perfectly fine about the shutdown and no audits. They hope it goes on forever. Continue to make America great again, IRS auditors, by remaining at home!
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly
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You're thinking like a national industry, SECOND. And all that might work for you, but it won't work for transnationals like Exxon Mobil.
When you can "buy" your oil cheaply in Nigeria and "sell" it expensively in Panama (since you also own the shipping company) and declare your profits in Panama - and Panama charges no taxes at all - then Exxon Mobil makes out like a bandit.
Apple does the same thing: It declares its profits in Ireland.
For someone who claims to know how business operates, you really don't know about the REALLY big businesses, do you?
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND
America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .
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Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Here's a thought: An Ocasio-Cortez/Tulsi Gabbard ticket.
lol. That's what America needs. A 31 year old president who can't even afford her apartment rent without crowdsourcing it.
Do Right, Be Right. :)
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What America needs is someone with a 30-year vision.
1) Stop our endless wars, cut our ties to freeloading alliances, and break up the deep state
2) Protect our borders and deport illegals
3) Stay out of sovereignty-destroying "free trade" deals
4) Bypass the Fed, and create our own currency instead of borrowing it (at interest) from private banks
5) Restore our infrastructure and manufacturing
6) Restore our environment and mitigate climate change
7) Crush health insurances and big pharma, and make our healthcare system work
Failing that, AT LEAST what American needs is someone who will end our endless wars. I mean, hell, we spend HALF of our taxes on war. We could cut the deficit in half, or improve our infrastructure AND fund medical care, and still come out ahead. But unless we stop interfering everywhere (Pompeo, the pompous ass, just threatened "regime change" in Venezuela) we will never be able to improve our nation because we'll be hemorrhaging money overseas.
America first. Not banks. Not Israel. Not (fill in the blank) disadvantaged foreign group. Not Saudi Arabia.
America.
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND
America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .
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Quote:Signym, if a solution must solve every problem, it will solve no problems; it will not be implemented. Beside that, this thread is about the Ocasio-Cortez wish-list. Even she does not give gorramn about solving the tax collection problems of other countries that are not America.
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
You're thinking like a national industry, SECOND. And all that might work for you, but it won't work for transnationals like Exxon Mobil.
When you can "buy" your oil cheaply in Nigeria and "sell" it expensively in Panama (since you also own the shipping company) and declare your profits in Panama - and Panama charges no taxes at all - then Exxon Mobil makes out like a bandit.
Apple does the same thing: It declares its profits in Ireland.
For someone who claims to know how business operates, you really don't know about the REALLY big businesses, do you?
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly
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Quote:If a company is headquartered here, should it not declare its profits here?
Even she does not give gorramn about solving the tax collection problems of other countries that are not America.
It's just a thought. I know THINKING is hard for you, but I tossed that out with the idea that it might spark some THOUGHTS on the topic. Because people who promote and implement policies without thinking about unintended consequences are just stupid.
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND
America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .
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Quote:So, she crowdsourced it, did she?
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Here's a thought: An Ocasio-Cortez/Tulsi Gabbard ticket.
lol. That's what America needs. A 31 year old president who can't even afford her apartment rent without crowdsourcing it.
Do Right, Be Right. :)
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Quote:There would be no unintended consequences if Ocasio-Cortez (or the GOP controlled Senate) passed a law increasing the frequency and detail of tax audits by the IRS. There is a half trillion dollars per year of uncollected taxes from wealthy individuals and corporations who cheated and lied and mislead the IRS. The IRS is forced by the GOP in Congress to audit the poor and the middle-class more than the wealthy. (I have been audited . . . never.)
Originally posted by SIGNYM:Quote:If a company is headquartered here, should it not declare its profits here?
Even she does not give gorramn about solving the tax collection problems of other countries that are not America.
It's just a thought. I know THINKING is hard for you, but I tossed that out with the idea that it might spark some THOUGHTS on the topic. Because people who promote and implement policies without thinking about unintended consequences are just stupid.
www.forbes.com/sites/cameronkeng/2015/04/02/irs-budget-cuts-decreases-
tax-audit-for-the-wealthy-increases-audits-on-low-to-mid-income-families/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_evasion_in_the_United_States
Two Republican US Treasurers were guilty of tax evasion:
1987: Robert Bernard Anderson (R) former United States Secretary of Treasury (1957–1961) pleaded guilty to tax evasion while operating an offshore bank.
1992: Catalina Vasquez Villalpando (R), Treasurer of the United States, pleads guilty to obstruction of justice and tax evasion.
The IRS is a bureau of the Department of the Treasury. Funny about the Treasurers cheating the IRS. Did guilt of tax evasion motivate the GOP in Congress to weaken IRS enforcement to protect themselves? We will never know their true motives.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_evasion_in_the_United_States#Histori
cal_U.S._tax_evasion_cases
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I heard that some Libtards "Fact Checked" AO-C in the last few days, and gave her 3 Pinocchios.
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Pinocchio this!
Quote:
Born to a working-class Puerto Rican family in the Bronx, New York, Ocasio-Cortez graduated from Boston University, majoring in economics and international relations, and later worked for Senator Ted Kennedy's office where she focused on immigration issues.
She took out one of the most powerful Dems in recent history. She's exactly
what America needs right now; a swift kick in the pants!
So, she's making the dildos over at Fox a little nervous, eh! Good. The more those idiots make fun of her, the more powerful she becomes. They claim that she's vapid and inane...stupid even. Well, those vapid and inane sword-swallowers at Fox only wish they had half her brains and charisma. Even if
she doesn't pass a single law, she's ahead of the game.
By the way, she has a seat on the Financial Services Committee, not bad for a "dumb" broad and rookie Congress member eh! Some have spread ugly rumors and
falsehoods against her. My question is: Why?
Quote:
Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D-NY) became a favorite target of conservative trolls after winning election to the U.S. House of Representatives in November 2018. The freshman lawmaker was subjected to a number of false rumors, most of which focused on her inexperience (at age 29 she was the youngest woman ever elected to Congress), her financial status (she was a bartender before running for election), or, inexplicably, her dance moves.
On 16 January 2019, a day after Ocasio-Cortez announced that she would be joining the House Financial Services Committee, Facebook user Donn Johnson posted a message alleging that Ocasio-Cortez was an ill fit for this position and claimed, without evidence, that she had had two checking accounts closed, that she had been the subject of two “sheriff evictions,” and that her credit score was a lowly 430:
Although this message was posted without any evidence to support its claims, many viewers accepted its unverified information as fact and spread it around Facebook. The rumor was also picked up by an army of Twitter trolls who continued to parrot the claim as if it were based on some sort of credible reporting:
Repeating this claim over and over again, however, did not make it true.
We encountered several dozen accounts spreading this rumor, yet not a single one pointed to any sort of news report, interview, financial record, witness statements, or anything else even slightly resembling evidence. In addition to a lack of evidence, it should be noted that it is highly unlikely that Johnson, a security officer living in Florida, would have access to information regarding Ocasio-Cortez’s credit score, as this information cannot be obtained by a third party without written consent under the Fair Credit Reporting Act.
Johnson claimed that Ocasio-Cortez had been evicted from her home twice with the help of a sheriff’s office. We did a background check on the congresswoman and found no mention of such an incident, no court cases tied to her living arrangements, and no irregularities in her housing history.
She was a rising political star in 2018. As such, a number of news outlets published profiles about her that detailed Ocasio-Cortez’s upbringing, her education, and her political motivations. We examined several of these stories and also found no mention of her alleged “sheriff evictions,” closed bank accounts, or low credit score.
Fox News, for instance, published an article headlined “Who is Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez? 5 things to know about the New York congresswoman.” That article briefly went into Ocasio-Cortez’s financial history and stated that, rather than facing evictions and account closures, she worked multiple jobs to help support her family after the death of her father:
She grew up in the Bronx and helped support her family after the death of her dad.
'Born in the Bronx, Ocasio-Cortez was raised by a mother from Puerto Rico and a father who was a small business owner. After her father passed away from cancer in 2008, OcasiNOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
Pinocchio this!Quote:
Born to a working-class Puerto Rican family in the Bronx, New York, Ocasio-Cortez graduated from Boston University, majoring in economics and international relations, and later worked for Senator Ted Kennedy's office where she focused on immigration issues.
She took out one of the most powerful Dems in recent history. She's exactly
what America needs right now; a swift kick in the pants!
So, she's making the dildos over at Fox a little nervous, eh! Good. The more those idiots make fun of her, the more powerful she becomes. They claim that she's vapid and inane...stupid even. Well, those vapid and inane sword-swallowers at Fox only wish they had half her brains and charisma. Even if
she doesn't pass a single law, she's ahead of the game.
Fuggin' A, SGG.
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Ah... I see we have a few fans of Socialism on this thread.
We already knew that, and they already denied it, but here we are...
Do Right, Be Right. :)
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Everyone is a fan of socialism.
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We know that you are.
Everyone else here will continually try to deny it.
Do Right, Be Right. :)
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Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez thinks concentrated wealth is incompatible with Democracy.
So Did Our Founders.
In 1835, Alexis de Tocqueville produced one of the earliest accounts of the American dream. In his famous study of the Jacksonian U.S., the Frenchman wrote that Americans possessed “the charm of anticipated success” — a ubiquitous optimism that he attributed to our country’s democratic character, and to the “general equality of condition” that prevailed among its “people.”
On Wednesday night, Sean Hannity took de Tocqueville to task. In the Fox News’ host’s telling, general economic equality is not a precondition for the American dream, but rather, an insurmountable obstacle to it — because the American dream is (apparently) to earn more than $10 million year without having to pay a top marginal tax rate higher than 37 percent.
Of course, Hannity did not actually frame his argument as a rebuke of de Tocqueville. His true target was Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez.
More at http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/01/ocasio-cortez-aocs-billionaires
-taxes-hannity-american-democracy.html
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly
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Sorry, AOC Is Right
The Washington Post tried to fact check Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez yet again. And yet again, the paper instead made a fool of itself.
https://jacobinmag.com/2019/01/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-fact-check-kes
sler
Washington Post blogger Glenn Kessler has had his ego wounded over the past few months because his style of amateurish fact–checking has been mocked by a number of public figures, most prominently Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez. Because Kessler’s blog is mostly a place for him to work out his personal beefs, he has decided to frequently accuse AOC of lying when she isn’t.
The most recent example of this behavior was yesterday when Kessler awarded the congresswoman three Pinocchios on his inscrutable truth scale for making the following remark:
I think it’s wrong that (1) a vast majority of the country doesn’t make a living wage, I think it’s wrong that (2) you can work one hundred hours and not feed your kids. I think it’s wrong that (3) corporations like Walmart and Amazon can get paid by the government, essentially experience a wealth transfer from the public, for (4) paying people less than a minimum wage.
Kessler concedes that (2) is accurate. But he says the other three claims are inaccurate. But they really aren’t.
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Quote:
Originally posted by reaverfan:
Sorry, AOC Is Right
The Washington Post tried to fact check Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez yet again. And yet again, the paper instead made a fool of itself.
https://jacobinmag.com/2019/01/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-fact-check-kes
sler
Washington Post blogger Glenn Kessler has had his ego wounded over the past few months because his style of amateurish fact–checking has been mocked by a number of public figures, most prominently Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez. Because Kessler’s blog is mostly a place for him to work out his personal beefs, he has decided to frequently accuse AOC of lying when she isn’t.
The most recent example of this behavior was yesterday when Kessler awarded the congresswoman three Pinocchios on his inscrutable truth scale for making the following remark:
I think it’s wrong that (1) a vast majority of the country doesn’t make a living wage, I think it’s wrong that (2) you can work one hundred hours and not feed your kids. I think it’s wrong that (3) corporations like Walmart and Amazon can get paid by the government, essentially experience a wealth transfer from the public, for (4) paying people less than a minimum wage.
Kessler concedes that (2) is accurate. But he says the other three claims are inaccurate. But they really aren’t.
If anything, I would say that (2) is the only technically inaccurate one. At least if it was worded "100 hours in a week", which it isn't. Kind of foggy on the message there. Did she mean 100 hours in a month? A year?
If you were making the national minimum wage and worked 100 hours a week, your take home pay for the month would be $2,900.00 minus taxes. Unless you're absolutely terrible with money, you shouldn't have any problems feeding your kids. The problem here though is you're doing a TON of extra work for The Man here, and now you've lost all of your government benefits, likely including any medical care assistance you were getting for your kids, and now you're probably going to get a substantial decrease in the EIC payout for any kids you have as well. (I'd have to check the charts in the 1040 Instructions to verify that).
And who is watching those kids while you're working 100 hours a week and trying to fit in maybe 25 hours of sleep if you're lucky? Are they working for free?
(4) is true, with two caveats. People who waitress/buss are legally paid under minimum wage and rely on your tips, and illegals get paid less than minimum wage. TIP YOUR SERVICE PEOPLE!
Number (1) is certainly true, and is made worse because of the illegal part of Number (4).
Number (3) is the most true on the list. Most employees that work at a Wal-Mart or Amazon or anywhere making part time money with no benefits and don't have a second job are on food stamps, medicaid or some form of Obamacare, receive energy assistance and can actually double their takehome pay by getting up to $12k per year in EIC credits depending on the number of kids they have.
There have been news articles that Wal-Mart will give all of their new part time employees all of the information and training they need to get on these programs. I can't speak for that myself, having never worked there. I will say that K-Mart didn't even do that though. Not that I am giving any credit to K-Mart here though... They just absolutely don't give a shit at all about their employees and don't have the time or money to even bother doing this while in their death throws.
I'd actually say of all the crazy shit that comes out of her mouth, we are in total agreement about numbers (3) and (1).
Do Right, Be Right. :)
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Absolutely brilliant.
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Quote:2,900 per 4 weeks would be 725 per week. This is 100 hours, with a Wage of $5.58 per hour for 40 hours and Overtime for 60 hours. Is Minimum Wage $5.58?
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:Quote:
Originally posted by reaverfan:
Sorry, AOC Is Right
The Washington Post tried to fact check Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez yet again. And yet again, the paper instead made a fool of itself.
https://jacobinmag.com/2019/01/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-fact-check-kes
sler
Washington Post blogger Glenn Kessler has had his ego wounded over the past few months because his style of amateurish fact–checking has been mocked by a number of public figures, most prominently Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez. Because Kessler’s blog is mostly a place for him to work out his personal beefs, he has decided to frequently accuse AOC of lying when she isn’t.
The most recent example of this behavior was yesterday when Kessler awarded the congresswoman three Pinocchios on his inscrutable truth scale for making the following remark:
I think it’s wrong that (1) a vast majority of the country doesn’t make a living wage, I think it’s wrong that (2) you can work one hundred hours and not feed your kids. I think it’s wrong that (3) corporations like Walmart and Amazon can get paid by the government, essentially experience a wealth transfer from the public, for (4) paying people less than a minimum wage.
Kessler concedes that (2) is accurate. But he says the other three claims are inaccurate. But they really aren’t.
If anything, I would say that (2) is the only technically inaccurate one. At least if it was worded "100 hours in a week", which it isn't. Kind of foggy on the message there. Did she mean 100 hours in a month? A year?
If you were making the national minimum wage and worked 100 hours a week, your take home pay for the month would be $2,900.00 minus taxes. Unless you're absolutely terrible with money, you shouldn't have any problems feeding your kids. The problem here though is you're doing a TON of extra work for The Man here, and now you've lost all of your government benefits, likely including any medical care assistance you were getting for your kids, and now you're probably going to get a substantial decrease in the EIC payout for any kids you have as well. (I'd have to check the charts in the 1040 Instructions to verify that).
And who is watching those kids while you're working 100 hours a week and trying to fit in maybe 25 hours of sleep if you're lucky? Are they working for free?
(4) is true, with two caveats. People who waitress/buss are legally paid under minimum wage and rely on your tips, and illegals get paid less than minimum wage. TIP YOUR SERVICE PEOPLE!
Number (1) is certainly true, and is made worse because of the illegal part of Number (4).
Number (3) is the most true on the list. Most employees that work at a Wal-Mart or Amazon or anywhere making part time money with no benefits and don't have a second job are on food stamps, medicaid or some form of Obamacare, receive energy assistance and can actually double their takehome pay by getting up to $12k per year in EIC credits depending on the number of kids they have.
There have been news articles that Wal-Mart will give all of their new part time employees all of the information and training they need to get on these programs. I can't speak for that myself, having never worked there. I will say that K-Mart didn't even do that though. Not that I am giving any credit to K-Mart here though... They just absolutely don't give a shit at all about their employees and don't have the time or money to even bother doing this while in their death throws.
I'd actually say of all the crazy shit that comes out of her mouth, we are in total agreement about numbers (3) and (1).
Do Right, Be Right. :)
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Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
2,900 per 4 weeks would be 725 per week. This is 100 hours, with a Wage of $5.58 per hour for 40 hours and Overtime for 60 hours. Is Minimum Wage $5.58?
Nope.
Minimum wage is $7.25. I would reckon you won't find a single person in the entire country that is getting paid minimum wage that is full time. Not only does this mean that they don't get any benefits or health insurance, but in many cases after the ACA was enacted, they can't even get 30 hours a week on the regular, otherwise their employer would be forced to provide them with health insurance.
Somebody making minimum and working 100 hours a week would be required to hold down 3 jobs to get those hours. Last I checked, your employer doesn't give a shit how many hours you've worked at your other job(s).
Everything I just said above also goes against any of the great job numbers you keep posting about in that other thread too. I've just stopped replying to it because it bores me to talk to a wall.
Do Right, Be Right. :)
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Quote:For your #3, where is the Government making payments to Amazon and Walmart? Your convoluted theory previous does not explain when these payments are made.
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
2,900 per 4 weeks would be 725 per week. This is 100 hours, with a Wage of $5.58 per hour for 40 hours and Overtime for 60 hours. Is Minimum Wage $5.58?
Nope.
Minimum wage is $7.25. I would reckon you won't find a single person in the entire country that is getting paid minimum wage that is full time. Not only does this mean that they don't get any benefits or health insurance, but in many cases after the ACA was enacted, they can't even get 30 hours a week on the regular, otherwise their employer would be forced to provide them with health insurance.
Somebody making minimum and working 100 hours a week would be required to hold down 3 jobs to get those hours. Last I checked, your employer doesn't give a shit how many hours you've worked at your other job(s).
Do Right, Be Right. :)
For #2, I agree it is inaccurate. At Dollar Tree, a week's worth of jam can be purchased, as well as peanut butter, loaf of bread. $3 per kid could prevent a week of hunger. $6 or $9 per week could likely stuff a kid, although boring fare lacking variety. A can of fruit and can of veg per day adds maybe $15 per kid per week from the grocery store. A $5 already cooked chicken can stuff a kid for days, so maybe add $10 per week, if $5 doesn't make it. Starting with $23 per week as a baseline, further food for your kids starts cutting into your Cable/Internet package, your hair extensions and manicure, stiletto collection, etc.
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Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
For your #3, where is the Government making payments to Amazon and Walmart? Your convoluted theory previous does not explain when these payments are made.
I think I explained it pretty well. I will repost it here:
Quote:
Number (3) is the most true on the list. Most employees that work at a Wal-Mart or Amazon or anywhere making part time money with no benefits and don't have a second job are on food stamps, medicaid or some form of Obamacare, receive energy assistance and can actually double their takehome pay by getting up to $12k per year in EIC credits depending on the number of kids they have.
There have been news articles that Wal-Mart will give all of their new part time employees all of the information and training they need to get on these programs. I can't speak for that myself, having never worked there. I will say that K-Mart didn't even do that though. Not that I am giving any credit to K-Mart here though... They just absolutely don't give a shit at all about their employees and don't have the time or money to even bother doing this while in their death throws.
I'll add for clarification here that I never said that the Government was giving payments directly to Amazon or WalMart. That would be a lie if I did say that, since they aren't.
You hate food stamps though. So I would think it would bother you that most people working part time shit jobs at WalMart and Amazon receive them. EIC is an unspoken Welfare payout that equals up to $3,000 per child, per year up to 4 children. Even easier to get on than the food stamps in most states is expanded medicaid, and you're usually put on that list when you apply for food stamps. If you qualify for food stamps, you certainly qualify for medicaid.
There is no direct payouts to these companies, but your tax dollars as a middle class worker goes to subsidize the livelihood of millions of American working class that do not get livable wages otherwise.
Quote:
For #2, I agree it is inaccurate. At Dollar Tree, a week's worth of jam can be purchased, as well as peanut butter, loaf of bread. $3 per kid could prevent a week of hunger. $6 or $9 per week could likely stuff a kid, although boring fare lacking variety. A can of fruit and can of veg per day adds maybe $15 per kid per week from the grocery store. A $5 already cooked chicken can stuff a kid for days, so maybe add $10 per week, if $5 doesn't make it. Starting with $23 per week as a baseline, further food for your kids starts cutting into your Cable/Internet package, your hair extensions and manicure, stiletto collection, etc.
Yup.
EDITED TO UPDATE TO NEW TAX LAWS:
https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/i1040gi.pdf
I'm looking at page 55 right now. It looks as though you only max out at 3 children now, and the maximum payout caps off at $6,431 for three children if your gross pay is between $14,250 and $18,650.
I'd never checked it back when the woman I knew told me she was getting $12,000 for 4 kids, so she might have been exaggerating or been uninformed when she told me that. This would have been around 5 years ago now.
Still though, that is the exact definition of a government subsidy. She wouldn't get any of that money if she didn't work a shitty, part time job, but because she did and she had more than 3 kids (assuming she worked last year), she will have recieved a $6,431 tax credit for having worked.
That's not a deduction. That is a check written out to her for $6,431 above whatever her normal return would have been.
I'm not even arguing against it on any principal. Kids aren't cheap to pay for and raise. That money is probably keeping them off the streets and out of the gang life.
My point here is that because she didn't get paid enough money while working to raise those kids without assistance at her shitty part time near minimum wage job, you ended up helping her raise her kids with your t
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Our girl's been busy.
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez's first month in Congress: A list
https://www.cnn.com/2019/02/03/politics/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-aoc-f
irst-month-in-congress/index.html?utm_medium=social&utm_content=2019-02-03T18%3A32%3A02&utm_source=fbCNNp&utm_term=link&fbclid=IwAR2RIhk57SXYgPhndGqN5LVgkOOK85cyCCz1AtkjAWcymDZMRW4RttoW-do
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Quote:
Originally posted by THG:
It's Trumps agenda we need to focus on. Not a first term congresswoman. T
Hey, you guys know what white supremacist hate more than Jews, Polaks. Who here fits that description? kiki and sig to name two. Who loves the Polak hater Trump, kiki and sig to name two.
Fucking dummies
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You're focused on it enough for all of us T.
There's a lot more to this conversation than Jenny from the Block.
Did you even read any of my recent posts here? You probably would agree with them.
Do Right, Be Right. :)
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Shoo troll
T
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Quote:You don't do right, and you aren't right. STFU.
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
You're focused on it enough for all of us T.
There's a lot more to this conversation than Jenny from the Block.
Did you even read any of my recent posts here? You probably would agree with them.
Do Right, Be Right. :)
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This country FYI, is a Democratic Socialist society.
A Democracy:
Quote:
control of an organization or group by the majority of its members.
Democratic socialism:
Quote:
is a political philosophy that advocates political democracy alongside social ownership of the means of production with an emphasis on self-management and democratic management of economic institutions within a market or some form of decentralized planned socialist economy.
Countries that have democratic socialism:
Armenia, Bolivia, Brazil, Croatia, Denmark, Ecuador, Finland, France, Germany, Greenland, Iceland, Ireland, Italy, Luxembourg, Moldova, Netherlands, Nicaragua, Northern Ireland, Norway, Peru, Portugal, Serbia, Slovenia, Sweden,
Tunisia, Turkey, United Kingdom, Venezuela.
Just to name a few.
SGG
Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Ah... I see we have a few fans of Socialism on this thread.
We already knew that, and they already denied it, but here we are...
Do Right, Be Right. :)
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She has indeed.
Thanks for posting.
SGG
Quote:
Originally posted by reaverfan:
Our girl's been busy.
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez's first month in Congress: A list
https://www.cnn.com/2019/02/03/politics/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-aoc-f
irst-month-in-congress/index.html?utm_medium=social&utm_content=2019-02-03T18%3A32%3A02&utm_source=fbCNNp&utm_term=link&fbclid=IwAR2RIhk57SXYgPhndGqN5LVgkOOK85cyCCz1AtkjAWcymDZMRW4RttoW-do
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Quote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
For your #3, where is the Government making payments to Amazon and Walmart? Your convoluted theory previous does not explain when these payments are made.
I think I explained it pretty well. I will repost it here:Quote:
Number (3) is the most true on the list. Most employees that work at a Wal-Mart or Amazon or anywhere making part time money with no benefits and don't have a second job are on food stamps, medicaid or some form of Obamacare, receive energy assistance and can actually double their takehome pay by getting up to $12k per year in EIC credits depending on the number of kids they have.
There have been news articles that Wal-Mart will give all of their new part time employees all of the information and training they need to get on these programs. I can't speak for that myself, having never worked there. I will say that K-Mart didn't even do that though. Not that I am giving any credit to K-Mart here though... They just absolutely don't give a shit at all about their employees and don't have the time or money to even bother doing this while in their death throws.
I'll add for clarification here that I never said that the Government was giving payments directly to Amazon or WalMart. That would be a lie if I did say that, since they aren't.
You hate food stamps though. So I would think it would bother you that most people working part time shit jobs at WalMart and Amazon receive them. EIC is an unspoken Welfare payout that equals up to $3,000 per child, per year up to 4 children. Even easier to get on than the food stamps in most states is expanded medicaid, and you're usually put on that list when you apply for food stamps. If you qualify for food stamps, you certainly qualify for medicaid.
There is no direct payouts to these companies, but your tax dollars as a middle class worker goes to subsidize the livelihood of millions of American working class that do not get livable wages otherwise.Quote:
For #2, I agree it is inaccurate. At Dollar Tree, a week's worth of jam can be purchased, as well as peanut butter, loaf of bread. $3 per kid could prevent a week of hunger. $6 or $9 per week could likely stuff a kid, although boring fare lacking variety. A can of fruit and can of veg per day adds maybe $15 per kid per week from the grocery store. A $5 already cooked chicken can stuff a kid for days, so maybe add $10 per week, if $5 doesn't make it. Starting with $23 per week as a baseline, further food for your kids starts cutting into your Cable/Internet package, your hair extensions and manicure, stiletto collection, etc.
Yup.
EDITED TO UPDATE TO NEW TAX LAWS:
https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/i1040gi.pdf
I'm looking at page 55 right now. It looks as though you only max out at 3 children now, and the maximum payout caps off at $6,431 for three children if your gross pay is between $14,250 and $18,650.
I'd never checked it back when the woman I knew told me she was getting $12,000 for 4 kids, so she might have been exaggerating or been uninformed when she told me that. This would have been around 5 years ago now.
Still though, that is the exact definition of a government subsidy. She wouldn't get any of that money if she didn't work a shitty, part time job, but because she did and she had more than 3 kids (assuming she worked last year), she will have recieved a $6,431 tax credit for having worked.
That's not a deduction. That is a check written out to her for $6,431 above whatever her normal return would have been.
I'm not even arguing against it on any principal. Kids aren't cheap to pay for and raise. That money is probably keeping them off the streets and out of the gang life.
My point here is that because she didn't get paid enough money while working to raise those kids without assistance at her shitty part time near minimum wage job, you ended up hel
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Quote:
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
This country FYI, is a Democratic Socialist society.
Um... no.
The US is a Democratic Republic.
Do Right, Be Right. :)
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Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
So you must in fact agree that she is absolutely lying on #3.
She stated that the Government is issuing payments to Corporations such as Amazon and Walmart, and that is clearly not true.
I don't agree with the way she worded it, but I wouldn't exactly call it a lie either. She's just an idiot. Either that, or she's speaking to idiots so she feels that she has to speak like one.
At the end of the day though, hundreds of thousands of minimum wage part time shitty jobs are being subsidized by the Goverment (ie: your tax dollars). Just because Jeff Bezos and the Walton family aren't being cut a huge check every year by the government doesn't mean that it's not the exact same thing on their books in the end.
In fact, it works out even BETTER for Bezos and the Walton family in the end. Because they aren't directly being cut a check, they don't have to pay any taxes on it. They get the government subsidized labor absolutely tax free.
Quote:
I had already read your convoluted rambling, and mentioned so, which did not change the fact of this lie.
It wasn't convoluted and it wasn't rambling. If you're still confused, I'll clear things up for you. Maybe my Dunning/Kruger Syndrome is kicking in and I just assume that people I'm talking to are as smart as I am.
Quote:
Also, since Trolls have clearly not been educated, it should be pointed out that The United States of America is a Republic form of Government, a Federation of States. Each of the States within the Republic currently selects their Representatives through democratic Election, for the most part.
Yes. I just posted that to SGG before I read your reply.
Do Right, Be Right. :)
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re·pub·lic
a state in which supreme power is held by the people and their elected representatives, and which has an elected or nominated president rather than a monarch.
That's us
T
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Quote:There is a very straight forward way, suggested by Ocasio-Cortez, to do away with the tax free part for the wealthy, but GOP Congressmen and the President are strongly opposed:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
At the end of the day though, hundreds of thousands of minimum wage part time shitty jobs are being subsidized by the Goverment (ie: your tax dollars). Just because Jeff Bezos and the Walton family aren't being cut a huge check every year by the government doesn't mean that it's not the exact same thing on their books in the end.
In fact, it works out even BETTER for Bezos and the Walton family in the end. Because they aren't directly being cut a check, they don't have to pay any taxes on it. They get the government subsidized labor absolutely tax free.
Do Right, Be Right. :)
The prospect of 70 percent tax rates for multimillionaires and special levies on the super-rich draw howls about creeping socialism and warnings of economic disaster in much of Washington.
But polling suggests that when it comes to soaking the rich, the American public is increasingly on board.
Surveys are showing overwhelming support for raising taxes on top earners, including a new POLITICO/Morning Consult poll released Monday that found 76 percent of registered voters believe the wealthiest Americans should pay more in taxes. A recent Fox News survey showed that 70 percent of Americans favor raising taxes on those earning over $10 million — including 54 percent of Republicans.
The numbers suggest the political ground upon which the 2020 presidential campaign will be fought is shifting in dramatic ways, reflecting the rise in inequality in the United States and growing concerns in the electorate about the fairness of the American system.
More at www.politico.com/story/2019/02/04/democrats-taxes-economy-policy-2020-
1144874
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly
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I'm on board for those over 10 Million, but it can't just be an income tax. It has to be restructuring on Capital Gains, where they make most of their money.
It would also have to be adjusted for inflation every year, because there's probably a decent chance that in my nieces lifetime every American will be a Millionaire.
Do Right, Be Right. :)
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Here’s How to Enact a Wealth Tax (not just a Capital Gains Tax) That the Supreme Court Won’t Kill
www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2019/01/heres-how-to-enact-a-wealth-tax
-that-the-supreme-court-wont-kill/
Let’s say that we don’t want to risk a showdown with a conservative Supreme Court that would probably find some way to strike down a wealth tax regardless of what legal scholars say about it. How can we enact the equivalent of a wealth tax but do it in a way that’s constitutionally unassailable?
Ari Glogower of Ohio State makes a case that the Supreme Court, even if it desperately wanted to, simply couldn’t overturn a tax like the one he proposes. The short explanation of why it can't be overturned is that overturning it would blow up too many settled areas of tax law.
More at www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2019/01/heres-how-to-enact-a-wealth-tax
-that-the-supreme-court-wont-kill/
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly
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Quote:Yes, because less jobs is always the best way to solve problems.
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
I'm on board for those over 10 Million, but it can't just be an income tax. It has to be restructuring on Capital Gains, where they make most of their money.
It would also have to be adjusted for inflation every year, because there's probably a decent chance that in my nieces lifetime every American will be a Millionaire.
Do Right, Be Right. :)
Why not 90%? Or 100%?
How much is too high?
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Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Yes, because less jobs is always the best way to solve problems.
Why not 90%? Or 100%?
How much is too high?
We're living in Post-Capitalism America.
Our government has not done its job and has allowed monopolistic companies to thrive to the point that we're all going to be working for the same 2 or 3 companies once they've pushed all the little guys out.
Your DOW Jones you ramble on about all the time is the main impetus for this.
Capitalism is great. It doesn't exist in America anymore though.
Do Right, Be Right. :)
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Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Yes, because less jobs is always the best way to solve problems.
Why not 90%? Or 100%?
How much is too high?
"But they're job creators!!!!1!!!"
Spare me!
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Quote:Elected officials need to ask themselves a very simple question: Who do I represent?
Originally posted by THG:
re·pub·lic
a state in which supreme power is held by the people and their elected representatives, and which has an elected or nominated president rather than a monarch.
That's us
T
The people who give me campaign money, or the people who elected me?
I know where AOC stands. In her case, she represents both at once. She eschewed corporate money, and funded herself with the grassroots. She'll have that job as long as she wants it.
Where does your Republican rep. stand? I know where mine stand. They love their dark money and they hate to speak to their constituents, and will only do so in the most controlled settings.
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Quote:Was any of that supposed to be answer to any of the questions I posed?
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Yes, because less jobs is always the best way to solve problems.
Why not 90%? Or 100%?
How much is too high?
We're living in Post-Capitalism America.
Our government has not done its job and has allowed monopolistic companies to thrive to the point that we're all going to be working for the same 2 or 3 companies once they've pushed all the little guys out.
Your DOW Jones you ramble on about all the time is the main impetus for this.
Capitalism is great. It doesn't exist in America anymore though.
Do Right, Be Right. :)
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Quote:
Where does your Republican rep. stand? I know where mine stand. They love their dark money and they hate to speak to their constituents, and will only do so in the most controlled settings.
Those Reps are the Mitch McConnells of the world. That slimy representative that shills for the corporate entities and thwarts any kind of progress for the people. They barely do enough to keep their seats. The rule of law does not apply to them.
SGG
Quote:Elected officials need to ask themselves a very simple question: Who do I represent?
Originally posted by reaverfan:Quote:
Originally posted by THG:
re·pub·lic
a state in which supreme power is held by the people and their elected representatives, and which has an elected or nominated president rather than a monarch.
That's us
T
The people who give me campaign money, or the people who elected me?
I know where AOC stands. In her case, she represents both at once. She eschewed corporate money, and funded herself with the grassroots. She'll have that job as long as she wants it.
Where does your Republican rep. stand? I know where mine stand. They love their dark money and they hate to speak to their constituents, and will only do so in the most controlled settings.
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Quote:Thanks for such an excellent display of your ignorance, fool.
Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
This country FYI, is a Democratic Socialist society.
A Democracy:Quote:
control of an organization or group by the majority of its members.
Democratic socialism:Quote:
is a political philosophy that advocates political democracy alongside social ownership of the means of production with an emphasis on self-management and democratic management of economic institutions within a market or some form of decentralized planned socialist economy.
Countries that have democratic socialism:
Armenia, Bolivia, Brazil, Croatia, Denmark, Ecuador, Finland, France, Germany, Greenland, Iceland, Ireland, Italy, Luxembourg, Moldova, Netherlands, Nicaragua, Northern Ireland, Norway, Peru, Portugal, Serbia, Slovenia, Sweden,
Tunisia, Turkey, United Kingdom, Venezuela.
Just to name a few.
SGGQuote:
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
Ah... I see we have a few fans of Socialism on this thread.
We already knew that, and they already denied it, but here we are...
Do Right, Be Right. :)
A Socialist Government is one which controls all aspects of Production. Like Nazi Germany, for example. This form of Government has failed every time it has been tried. Many consider Venezuela to be the most recent example of this.
No Free Enterprise, no Free Market, and usually no other Freedoms or Liberties.
Maybe your own little world is Socialist, like the company you run, but America is not that way. Yet.
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This troll is entirely laughable. ^ Doesn't even try to hide it.
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Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez Releases Green New Deal Outline
https://www.npr.org/2019/02/07/691997301/rep-alexandria-ocasio-cortez-
releases-green-new-deal-outline?utm_campaign=storyshare&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=social
Whether it's a deadly cold snap or a hole in an Antarctic glacier or a terrifying new report, there seem to be constant reminders now of the dangers that climate change poses to humanity.
POLITICS
Ocasio-Cortez To Unveil Ambitious Plan To Combat Climate Change
Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, D-N.Y., and Sen. Ed Markey, D-Mass., think they have a start to a solution. Thursday they are introducing a framework defining what they call a "Green New Deal" — what they foresee as a massive policy package that would remake the U.S. economy and, they hope, eliminate all U.S. carbon emissions.
That's a really big — potentially impossibly big — undertaking.
"Even the solutions that we have considered big and bold are nowhere near the scale of the actual problem that climate change presents to us," Ocasio-Cortez told NPR's Steve Inskeep in an interview airing Thursday on Morning Edition.
She added: "It could be part of a larger solution, but no one has actually scoped out what that larger solution would entail. And so that's really what we're trying to accomplish with the Green New Deal."
Heaven must be missing an angel.
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THE ICE AGE IS COMING!!!!
Brought to you by Russia.
Do Right, Be Right. :)
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The ice is melting. The world is heating up. Way too fast for most species to evolve and adapt.
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WATERWORLD IS COMING!!!!
Brought to you by Russia.
Do Right, Be Right. :)
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Human self-entitlement does not seem to recognize that we are only here as guests of stable macro-forces. We destabilize them, we revoke our right to be here, and there isn't anywhere else to go.
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Yup.
Do Right, Be Right. :)
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Billionaires who hate Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez's 70% tax on the super-rich are adamant it will hurt the economy — but history suggests otherwise
https://www.businessinsider.com/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-70-percent-ma
rginal-tax-fix-impact-on-economy-2019-2?utm_source=reddit.com
New Deal policies were Eisenhower-era ideas which are now "radical leftist" ideas today.
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This woman is a force of nature.
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Quote:
Originally posted by reaverfan:
This woman is a force of nature.
So was Hurricane Katrina.
Do Right, Be Right. :)
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People confuse socialism with a welfare state. Altho in reality there's a lot of overlap, the two are not the same. JSF is correct in saying
Quote:"Nazi" is in fact a contraction of "national socialism". Ocasio-Cortez seems more interested in creating a welfare state.
A Socialist Government is one which controls all aspects of Production. Like Nazi Germany, for example.
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND
America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .
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Quote:There you go again, trolling with lies, Russian troll.
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
People confuse socialism with a welfare state. Altho in reality there's a lot of overlap, the two are not the same. JSF is correct in sayingQuote:"Nazi" is in fact a contraction of "national socialism". Ocasio-Cortez seems more interested in creating a welfare state.
A Socialist Government is one which controls all aspects of Production. Like Nazi Germany, for example.
Do I need to prove you're lying, or do you already know that, and will just concede that you are lying?
You are a sad POS.
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Quote:Yes.
Do I need to prove you're lying
But let's get one thing out of the way first: Nazi = Nationalsozialismus
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazism
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND
America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .
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Well, if you call Social Security and Unions a welfare state. Then yes.
SGG
Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
People confuse socialism with a welfare state. Altho in reality there's a lot of overlap, the two are not the same. JSF is correct in sayingQuote:"Nazi" is in fact a contraction of "national socialism". Ocasio-Cortez seems more interested in creating a welfare state.
A Socialist Government is one which controls all aspects of Production. Like Nazi Germany, for example.
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND
America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .
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Quote:Let's get one thing out of the way first: Socialism = Democratic Party.
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Let's get one thing out of the way first: Nazi = Nationalsozialismus
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazism
- Donald Trump, 2nd SOTU
In 1961, America faced what conservatives considered a mortal threat: calls for a national health insurance program covering senior citizens. In an attempt to avert this awful fate, the American Medical Association launched what it called Operation Coffee Cup, a pioneering attempt at viral marketing.
Here’s how it worked: Doctors’ wives (hey, it was 1961) were asked to invite their friends over and play them a recording in which Ronald Reagan explained that socialized medicine would destroy American freedom. The housewives, in turn, were supposed to write letters to Congress denouncing the menace of Medicare.
Obviously the strategy didn’t work; Medicare not only came into existence, but it became so popular that these days Republicans routinely (and falsely) accuse Democrats of planning to cut the program’s funding. But the strategy — claiming that any attempt to strengthen the social safety net or limit inequality will put us on a slippery slope to totalitarianism — endures.
And so it was that Donald Trump, in his State of the Union address, briefly turned to warnings about the threat from socialism (from Ocasio-Cortez' wish-list).
More at www.nytimes.com/2019/02/07/opinion/trump-socialism-state-of-the-union.
html
Trump Versus the Socialist Menace: The Commies are coming for your pickup trucks.
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly
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Quote:Let's tackle the last first: I don't consider unions to be part of a welfare state because they are not at all funded by government: They're self-organized and self-funded groups of workers who've banded together for better bargaining leverage. The only government involvement is the "freedom of association" clause under the First Amendment, which makes these organizations legal. (Originally, the US government was anti-union and very much in the strike-breaking mode.)
Well, if you call Social Security and Unions a welfare state. Then yes.
Yes, Social Security is one part of a welfare state. Welfare state-ism included Medicare, Medicaid, food stamps, free education, unemployment, school lunches, housing vouchers and housing assistance, disability payments, and other transfers of wealth or provision of services by the government. Medicare for All, and free post-high-school education would represent a large increase in the money committed to welfare state-ism.
Just to be clear: The institution of unemployment and Social Security was NOT to destroy capitalism, but to preserve it. FDR was facing a revolt by the people; in order to quell unrest he HAD to provide relief to people whom the capitalist system has so utterly failed. If he hadn't instituted state welfare, the capitalist system may have been overthrown.
WELFARE STATE-ISM IS ENTIRELY COMPATIBLE WITH CORPORATISM by serving as a buffer which makes an exploitative system more tolerable. Bread and circuses keep people quiet.
I don't have a huge problem with the government providing some services ... it's clear that the health insurances, big pharma, and hospital corporations have fucked up healthcare beyond all recognition. HOWEVER, I think it would be far better to understand how it is that ordinary people can no longer afford the basics of life, and how the wealth gap got so out-of-hand to being with, and SOLVE those problems instead of the government stepping in and softening the blow.
In fact, if anyone is proposing socialism, it's me, because (like JFK) I propose the government get actively involved in providing capital to businesses which will invest in essential categories of production, and not just take that money for stock buybacks and other financial speculation.
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND
America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .
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Ocasio-Cortez has a NEW wish-list: The New Green Deal
Quote:
WASHINGTON (CNN) - The Green New Deal, which has so far been a campaign catchphrase about solving climate change and inequality in one fell swoop, just got real.
Democratic New York Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and Sen. Ed Markey of Massachusetts are introducing a joint resolution Thursday laying out the main elements of a legislative plan. It describes a 10-year "economic mobilization" that would phase out fossil fuel use and overhaul the nation's infrastructure while building whole new layers into the existing social safety net.
The 14-page resolution envisions a shift to 100% renewable and zero-emission energy sources, and calls for the creation of millions of new high-wage jobs to help wipe out poverty.
While calling for the elimination of pollution and greenhouse gas emissions in agriculture, transportation, manufacturing and construction, the resolution contains no mention of bans or regulation, as other plans have described.
The closest it comes is a provision for existing and new laws to take into account the negative impacts of climate change — an approach that the Obama administration had taken through incorporating the "social cost of carbon" into rulemaking, which the Trump administration has pulled back on.
Instead, the document emphasizes massive public investment in wind and solar production, zero-emission vehicles and high-speed rail, energy-efficient buildings, and smart power grids, as well as "working collaboratively" with farmers and ranchers to move towards sustainable agriculture techniques.
The resolution also fleshes out something that's been core to the idea of the Green New Deal from the beginning: Remedying historic injustices visited upon the poor and people of color.
Public investments should prioritize what the resolution calls "frontline and vulnerable communities," which include people in rural and de-industrialized areas as well as those that depend on carbon-intensive industries like oil and gas extraction.
And in a move that may draw support from a broad range of advocacy groups, the resolution sweeps in the full range of progressive policy priorities: Providing universal healthcare and affordable housing, ensuring that all jobs have union protections and family-sustaining wages, and keeping the business environment free of monopolistic competition.
The cost of all this, and where the money to pay for it will come from, remains unclear.
Ocasio-Cortez and the groups supporting her push for the Green New Deal have declined to put a price tag on the plan, and it still lacks enough specifics to estimate with any kind of precision.
An analysis of another, similar plan by the conservative American Action Forum found pegged the regulatory burden at about $1 trillion, before any new investments.
Still, the New Dealers argue that a federally-funded energy transition would stimulate growth by providing jobs, improving public health, and reducing waste. In addition, they argue that the government could capture more return on investment by retaining equity stakes in the projects they build. More generally, however, they brush off cost concerns by pointing to unquestioned government spending on wars and tax cuts, which have ballooned deficits in the past.
"The question isn't how will we pay for it, but what is the cost of inaction, and what will we do with our new shared prosperity created by the investments in the Green New Deal," reads a fact sheet distributed along with the resolution.
In recent weeks, people ranging from Beto O'Rourke to Mike Bloomberg have professed support for the general idea. But the sheer scale of the resolution, which would entail a much larger role for the federal government than has been seen since the Great Depression, may make it difficult for more moderate politicians to claim they support the Green New Deal as now defined.
https://www.wsls.com/news/politics/ocasiocortezs-green-new-deal-w
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Quote:Trump attacked Ocasio-Cortez, both old and new wish-list, in the SOTU:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Ocasio-Cortez has a NEW wish-list: The New Green Deal
Quote:
PRESIDENT: Here in the United States, we are alarmed by the new calls to adopt socialism in our country.
AUDIENCE: Booo —
THE PRESIDENT: America was founded on liberty and independence, and not government coercion, domination, and control. (Applause.) We are born free and we will stay free. (Applause.)
AUDIENCE: USA! USA! USA!
THE PRESIDENT: Tonight, we renew our resolve that America will never be a socialist country. (Applause.)
AUDIENCE: USA! USA! USA!
Quote:
And we have unleashed a revolution in American energy. The United States is now the number-one producer of oil and natural gas anywhere in the world. (Applause.) And now, for the first time in 65 years, we are a net exporter of energy. (Applause.)
After 24 months of rapid progress, our economy is the envy of the world, our military is the most powerful on Earth, by far, and America — (applause) — America is again winning each and every day. (Applause.)
Members of Congress: The state of our union is strong. (Applause.)
AUDIENCE: USA! USA! USA!
THE PRESIDENT: That sounds so good. (Laughter.)
www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-statements/remarks-president-trump-state-
union-address-2/
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly
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Your lies, utterly destroyed, Russian troll.
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The above video proves you completely wrong and a liar, Russian troll.
So does this.
https://www.snopes.com/news/2017/09/05/were-nazis-socialists/
Now please, stop posting lies.
That means you should stop posting, period.
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lol Snopes
Do Right, Be Right. :)
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Quote:Is Snopes "left wing?"
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
lol Snopes
Do Right, Be Right. :)
It is true that reality has a left bias.
You should just watch the video, then. No reading required.
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Trump Jr. rips Ocasio-Cortez’s Green New Deal As ‘Socialism’
Ocasio-Cortez and Sen. Ed Markey (D-Mass.) outlined an ambitious “ten-year national mobilization” plan to build “smart grids” and boost power generated from the sun and wind to as close to 100 percent as possible over the next decade.
Donald Jr. scoffed at the inevitable failure of the idea that sounded to him like “socialism.”
www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/donald-trump-jr-ocasio-cortez-green-new-d
eal-socialism_us_5c5d02cfe4b0e01e32aaff06
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly
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Quote:
Originally posted by reaverfan:
Your lies, utterly destroyed, Russian troll.
I have no idea what your video is trying to say. In any case, I wasn't even posting about "fascism" - which seems to be what this video is all about (except dissing Prager U) - so your post is entirely misdirected. We were discussing socialism versus the welfare state. JSF's definition of socialism is correct. You brains must have exploded out of your head a long, long time ago.
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND
America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .
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Quote:Having been totally destroyed again, the Russian troll backpedals, embarrassed by my victory over their lies. The deep shame of defeat burns in their weak mind.
Originally posted by SIGNYM:Quote:
Originally posted by reaverfan:
Your lies, utterly destroyed, Russian troll.
I have no idea what your video is trying to say. In any case, I wasn't even posting about "fascism" - which seems to be what this video is all about (except dissing Prager U) - so your post is entirely misdirected. We were discussing socialism versus the welfare state. JSF's definition of socialism is correct. You brains must have exploded out of your head a long, long time ago.
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND
America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .
You lose, yet again. I crushed you.
The Nazis weren't socialists. They murdered socialists.
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Quote:Dumb as his dad.
Originally posted by second:
Trump Jr. rips Ocasio-Cortez’s Green New Deal As ‘Socialism’
Ocasio-Cortez and Sen. Ed Markey (D-Mass.) outlined an ambitious “ten-year national mobilization” plan to build “smart grids” and boost power generated from the sun and wind to as close to 100 percent as possible over the next decade.
Donald Jr. scoffed at the inevitable failure of the idea that sounded to him like “socialism.”
www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/donald-trump-jr-ocasio-cortez-green-new-d
eal-socialism_us_5c5d02cfe4b0e01e32aaff06
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly
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Quote:Many realize overlap is not merely coincidence, but that Socialism is the cause of the Welfare State effect. This Cause and Effect is a delayed overlap, a time-offset overlap.
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
People confuse socialism with a welfare state. Altho in reality there's a lot of overlap, the two are not the same. JSF is correct in sayingQuote:"Nazi" is in fact a contraction of "national socialism". Ocasio-Cortez seems more interested in creating a welfare state.
A Socialist Government is one which controls all aspects of Production. Like Nazi Germany, for example.
America may not be converted to Nazism, but not due to lack of trying from Democrats.
The Democrat Party Platform is not most closely aligned with Elected Democrats. The Democrat Platform is most closely aligned with Elected Socialists. This is the Democrat Party of America.
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Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Ocasio-Cortez has a NEW wish-list: The New Green DealQuote:
WASHINGTON (CNN) - The Green New Deal, which has so far been a campaign catchphrase about solving climate change and inequality in one fell swoop, just got real.
Democratic New York Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and Sen. Ed Markey of Massachusetts are introducing a joint resolution Thursday laying out the main elements of a legislative plan. It describes a 10-year "economic mobilization" that would phase out fossil fuel use and overhaul the nation's infrastructure while building whole new layers into the existing social safety net.
The 14-page resolution envisions a shift to 100% renewable and zero-emission energy sources, and calls for the creation of millions of new high-wage jobs to help wipe out poverty.
While calling for the elimination of pollution and greenhouse gas emissions in agriculture, transportation, manufacturing and construction, the resolution contains no mention of bans or regulation, as other plans have described.
The closest it comes is a provision for existing and new laws to take into account the negative impacts of climate change — an approach that the Obama administration had taken through incorporating the "social cost of carbon" into rulemaking, which the Trump administration has pulled back on.
Instead, the document emphasizes massive public investment in wind and solar production, zero-emission vehicles and high-speed rail, energy-efficient buildings, and smart power grids, as well as "working collaboratively" with farmers and ranchers to move towards sustainable agriculture techniques.
The resolution also fleshes out something that's been core to the idea of the Green New Deal from the beginning: Remedying historic injustices visited upon the poor and people of color.
Public investments should prioritize what the resolution calls "frontline and vulnerable communities," which include people in rural and de-industrialized areas as well as those that depend on carbon-intensive industries like oil and gas extraction.
And in a move that may draw support from a broad range of advocacy groups, the resolution sweeps in the full range of progressive policy priorities: Providing universal healthcare and affordable housing, ensuring that all jobs have union protections and family-sustaining wages, and keeping the business environment free of monopolistic competition.
The cost of all this, and where the money to pay for it will come from, remains unclear.
Ocasio-Cortez and the groups supporting her push for the Green New Deal have declined to put a price tag on the plan, and it still lacks enough specifics to estimate with any kind of precision.
An analysis of another, similar plan by the conservative American Action Forum found pegged the regulatory burden at about $1 trillion, before any new investments.
Still, the New Dealers argue that a federally-funded energy transition would stimulate growth by providing jobs, improving public health, and reducing waste. In addition, they argue that the government could capture more return on investment by retaining equity stakes in the projects they build. More generally, however, they brush off cost concerns by pointing to unquestioned government spending on wars and tax cuts, which have ballooned deficits in the past.
"The question isn't how will we pay for it, but what is the cost of inaction, and what will we do with our new shared prosperity created by the investments in the Green New Deal," reads a fact sheet distributed along with the resolution.
In recent weeks, people ranging from Beto O'Rourke to Mike Bloomberg have professed support for the general idea. But the sheer scale of the resolution, which would entail a much larger role for the federal government than has been seen since the Great Depression, may make it difficult for more moderate politicians to claim they support the Green New Deal as now defined.
https://www.wsls.com/newsNOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Your lies, utterly destroyed, Russian troll.
I have no idea what your video is trying to say. In any case, I wasn't even posting about "fascism" - which seems to be what this video is all about (except dissing Prager U) - so your post is entirely misdirected. We were discussing socialism versus the welfare state. JSF's definition of socialism is correct. You brains must have exploded out of your head a long, long time ago.
The Nazis weren't socialists. They murdered socialists.REAVERBOT
Oh because socialists would never murder socialists??
That's about as ridiculous as saying that Christians would never murder Christians (see 100 Years War).
I could go into great detail about the vying power structures in Germany between the national socialists (Nazis) and the international socialists ("communists") but it would be lost on you. Your argument is as devoid of reality as arguing about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin, or whether the wine and bread REALLY become the blood and body of Christ or merely represent it,
Wars have been fought over less.
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND
America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .
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Quote:Has the Trollbot made any attempt to prove?
Originally posted by SIGNYM:Quote:Yes.
Do I need to prove you're lying
But let's get one thing out of the way first: Nazi = Nationalsozialismus
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazism
Other than claiming that Socialists are not Socialists?
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No, REAVERBOT has not proved anything.
Back to the topic at-hand. With AOC's new wishlist, she has moved from welfare statist to actual socialist, as it seems she wants to control energy production and energy conservation.
However, she's still relying on The Fed, which is a fatal flaw in her thinking. There are a three reasons why its a terrible idea, environmentally, financially, and ideologically, to contntinue to allow The Fed's continued existence, but I'm not going to go into that now... just too busy.
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND
America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .
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Quote:The GOP does not believe that greenhouse gases change the climate. Since CO2 is not a problem in the opinion of the GOP, fossil fuels are not a problem and the cheapest energy will be burning fossil fuel for power. Trump administration on Wednesday (Feb. 6) moved to roll back an Obama-era rule that would make light bulbs more efficient. More CO2. https://qz.com/1546400/ Trump did the same with vehicle mileage standards. More CO2. And coal. More CO2.
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Back to the topic at-hand. With AOC's new wishlist, she has moved from welfare statist to actual socialist, as it seems she wants to control energy production and energy conservation.
However, she's still relying on The Fed, which is a fatal flaw in her thinking. There are a three reasons why its a terrible idea, environmentally, financially, and ideologically, to continue to allow The Fed's continued existence, but I'm not going to go into that now... just too busy.
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly
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Anybody who uses "Socialism" or "Socialist" because they know the lowbrows will consider it a smear, are just dead in the head. That's ancient, backward, minimal thinking at best. Think first of the problem and then how to solve it. Be as creative and inventive as you can, everything is on the table. It's called a "Wish List" for a reason. I'd call it a "Should List." We should have energy independence, we should have Health Care for all. And not just average HC, but leading the world health care. We should have free college, we should have... on and on. If you don't put the goals out there you have what we have now - old selfish crabbie rich f*cking white dudes just hanging and f*ck everyone else.
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Quote:
Back to the topic at-hand. With AOC's new wishlist, she has moved from welfare statist to actual socialist, as it seems she wants to control energy production and energy conservation.
However, she's still relying on The Fed, which is a fatal flaw in her thinking. There are a three reasons why its a terrible idea, environmentally, financially, and ideologically, to continue to allow The Fed's continued existence, but I'm not going to go into that now... just too busy. SIGNY
The GOP does not believe that greenhouse gases change the climate. Since CO2 is not a problem in the opinion of the GOP, fossil fuels are not a problem and the cheapest energy will be burning fossil fuel for power. Trump administration on Wednesday (Feb. 6) moved to roll back an Obama-era rule that would make light bulbs more efficient. More CO2. https://qz.com/1546400/ Trump did the same with vehicle mileage standards. More CO2. And coal. More CO2.
Well this is one area where I profoundly disagree with Trump specifically and the GOP in general. I also disagree with the LaRouche end of the Libertarians on that issue, since they believe that there is no limit to human growth and development because technology will always find new energy sources. Sorry, but what does that have to do with the topic? I'm not a single-issue voter, and IMHO the first thing that ANY President needs to do BEFORE instituting environmental regulations is to not make them hostage to "free trade" agreements. So AOC can thank Trump for keeping us out of two of the worst free trade boondoggles, and preserving her ability to dream big about possible solutions to the problem, and so can you and REAVERBOT.
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND
America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .
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Quote:
Originally posted by captaincrunch:
Anybody who uses "Socialism" or "Socialist" because they know the lowbrows will consider it a smear, are just dead in the head. That's ancient, backward, minimal thinking at best. Think first of the problem and then how to solve it. Be as creative and inventive as you can, everything is on the table. It's called a "Wish List" for a reason. I'd call it a "Should List." We should have energy independence, we should have Health Care for all. And not just average HC, but leading the world health care. We should have free college, we should have... on and on. If you don't put the goals out there you have what we have now - old selfish crabbie rich f*cking white dudes just hanging and f*ck everyone else.
Before people used "socialism" as a smear, they used "commie". (Now, they use "Russian".) Then, when "socialism" became a smear, left-wing Democrats called themselves "Liberals". When "liberal" became a smear, they opted to call themselves "progressives". Now, I don't know WTF the left-end of the Democratic Party calls themselves, since they've allowed themselves to be pushed off their nomeclature.
I suggest that people use the already-established definitions, as I do. If you believe that government should have a large hand in funding and determining production, you're a socialist; and if you believe in a national character to socialism (as opposed to global or international socialism) you're a national socialist. If you believe that such a government should be under control of the popular vote, you're a democratic socialist. If you believe that corporations should control government, you're a fascist. If you believe that governments should be under the control of international banks and corporations, you're an international fascist, AKA globalist. If you believe that corporatism is the right economc system but that government needs to step in to ameliorate its worst excesses, then you believe in the welfare state.
Just keep in mind that there are political and economic dimensions to any description of government, and try not to confuse the two. There are democracies (with votes) and authoritarian governments (without votes, like China), there are centralizing forces (Like the international bank cartel) and decentralizing ones (in the current push towards globalism, nationalism counts as a decentralizing force, as does separatism) there are economic systems where the government controls almost all aspects of production (like the defunct USSR) or is a majority stakeholder in most production (China, own more than 50% of production as State Owned Enterprises or SOEs, plus does NOT have a private central bank), and economic systems where the government does not control or own even the most basic production like energy (the USA).
In reality, nations are a mix of the above.
Also, "Communism" has never existed, since it is international/ global socialism, so calling someone a communist is like calling them a purple dragon. Even socialism has never been instituted 100%. The closest any nations have gotten to socialism are the USSR, China, and Cuba. China is still closer to socialism than Russia or Cuba.
So when I call AOC a "socialist" I mean that she truly wants to control how energy iss produced and used, which means that she wants to control large aspects of production (what is produced, and how) since energy threads its way through every productive ctivity.
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND
America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .
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Quote:You disagree with something specific from the GOP or Trump? Or you disagree with what second posits as the viewpoint of somebody else?
Originally posted by SIGNYM:Quote:
Back to the topic at-hand. With AOC's new wishlist, she has moved from welfare statist to actual socialist, as it seems she wants to control energy production and energy conservation.
However, she's still relying on The Fed, which is a fatal flaw in her thinking. There are a three reasons why its a terrible idea, environmentally, financially, and ideologically, to continue to allow The Fed's continued existence, but I'm not going to go into that now... just too busy. SIGNY
The GOP does not believe that greenhouse gases change the climate. Since CO2 is not a problem in the opinion of the GOP, fossil fuels are not a problem and the cheapest energy will be burning fossil fuel for power. Trump administration on Wednesday (Feb. 6) moved to roll back an Obama-era rule that would make light bulbs more efficient. More CO2. https://qz.com/1546400/ Trump did the same with vehicle mileage standards. More CO2. And coal. More CO2.
Well this is one area where I profoundly disagree with Trump specifically and the GOP in general. I also disagree with the LaRouche end of the Libertarians on that issue, since they believe that there is no limit to human growth and development because technology will always find new energy sources. Sorry, but what does that have to do with the topic? I'm not a single-issue voter, and IMHO the first thing that ANY President needs to do BEFORE instituting environmental regulations is to not make them hostage to "free trade" agreements. So AOC can thank Trump for keeping us out of two of the worst free trade boondoggles, and preserving her ability to dream big about possible solutions to the problem, and so can you and REAVERBOT.
Second never tells the truth when ranting in his tangential diatribes.
So what are you disagreeing with?
Is CO2 your concern? I have not heard mention of rainforests lately. Do you feel wildfires add CO2? Instead of growing a little wood and then burning it in wildfires, would it not be better to harvest the wood and restart the wood growth before it is lost to wildfire? The harvested wood would displace some of the need for rainforest lumber.
I have forgotten the answer to this: does a mature wood consume more CO2, or a growing wood or saplings in a similar footprint? We know that for fauna, the growth stage consumes far more essential resources than the full grown adult - is that the same for flora?
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Quote:Tell me if I am wrong: the GOP knows that billions of tons of CO2 are released by the USA every year, but the GOP claims that CO2 should increase because it makes no difference to climate. Last week, Trump said it was too cold in a wisecrack about NOT limiting CO2. It is about money. It will cost money to reduce CO2 and the GOP doesn't want to pay, therefore it argues that ever increasing CO2 is not a problem. I saw the same from Republicans about dumping sewage into Galveston Bay. The Federal government had to take dozens of utility districts to court, litigating for decades, to get them to build properly functioning sewage treatment facilities. The districts saved money by not treating their sewage and claiming that the Gulf of Mexico would clean it up. It's cheaper to dump raw sewage into the bayou and let Nature take care of it. Now it is cheaper to let Nature take care of CO2.
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
You disagree with something specific from the GOP or Trump? Or you disagree with what second posits as the viewpoint of somebody else?
Second never tells the truth when ranting in his tangential diatribes.
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly
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Quote:You lied, and got owned. Man up, Russian troll. Liars lose when they try to tangle with their betters.
Originally posted by SIGNYM:Quote:
Your lies, utterly destroyed, Russian troll.
I have no idea what your video is trying to say. In any case, I wasn't even posting about "fascism" - which seems to be what this video is all about (except dissing Prager U) - so your post is entirely misdirected. We were discussing socialism versus the welfare state. JSF's definition of socialism is correct. You brains must have exploded out of your head a long, long time ago.
The Nazis weren't socialists. They murdered socialists.REAVERBOT
Oh because socialists would never murder socialists??
That's about as ridiculous as saying that Christians would never murder Christians (see 100 Years War).
I could go into great detail about the vying power structures in Germany between the national socialists (Nazis) and the international socialists ("communists") but it would be lost on you. Your argument is as devoid of reality as arguing about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin, or whether the wine and bread REALLY become the blood and body of Christ or merely represent it,
Wars have been fought over less.
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND
America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .
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Tucker gets his ass handed to him, yet again.
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Quote:Yes
Back to the topic at-hand. With AOC's new wishlist, she has moved from welfare statist to actual socialist, as it seems she wants to control energy production and energy conservation.
However, she's still relying on The Fed, which is a fatal flaw in her thinking. There are a three reasons why its a terrible idea, environmentally, financially, and ideologically, to continue to allow The Fed's continued existence, but I'm not going to go into that now... just too busy. SIGNY
The GOP does not believe that greenhouse gases change the climate. Since CO2 is not a problem in the opinion of the GOP, fossil fuels are not a problem and the cheapest energy will be burning fossil fuel for power. Trump administration on Wednesday (Feb. 6) moved to roll back an Obama-era rule that would make light bulbs more efficient. More CO2. https://qz.com/1546400/ Trump did the same with vehicle mileage standards. More CO2. And coal. More CO2. - SECOND
Well this is one area where I profoundly disagree with Trump specifically and the GOP in general. I also disagree with the LaRouche end of the Libertarians on that issue, since they believe that there is no limit to human growth and development because technology will always find new energy sources. Sorry, but what does that have to do with the topic? I'm not a single-issue voter, and IMHO the first thing that ANY President needs to do BEFORE instituting environmental regulations is to not make them hostage to "free trade" agreements. So AOC can thank Trump for keeping us out of two of the worst free trade boondoggles, and preserving her ability to dream big about possible solutions to the problem, and so can you and REAVERBOT.- SIGNY
You disagree with something specific from the GOP or Trump? Or you disagree with what second posits as the viewpoint of somebody else?
Second never tells the truth when ranting in his tangential diatribes.
So what are you disagreeing with?
Is CO2 your concern?
Quote:I have.
I have not heard mention of rainforests lately.
Quote:The problem with wood harvesting is that the lumber companies promote clear-cutting even in old=growth forests, not the forest-thinning (clearing out the many small trees crowding the landscape) which is completely non-economic from a timber POV. That is why I have suggested producing biochar and biofuel in situ for forest-thinning operations ... at least you can get SOME economic recovery from that.
Do you feel wildfires add CO2? Instead of growing a little wood and then burning it in wildfires, would it not be better to harvest the wood and restart the wood growth before it is lost to wildfire? The harvested wood would displace some of the need for rainforest lumber.
Also, rainforests aren't being cleared for timber, they're being cleared for agriculture. In Brazil, for soy and cattle, in Indonesia and maylaysia for palm oil.
Quote:IIRC large trees store more carbon per footprint than small ones. It's a difficult measurement to make, but studies have been done. I'll look it up again when I get the chance.
I have forgotten the answer to this: does a mature wood consume more CO2, or a growing wood or saplings in a similar footprint? We know that for fauna, the growth stage consumes far more essential resources than the full grown adult - is that the same for flora?
One way to look at it tho.. while a young sapling can grow 2' per year, a large mature tree can add thirty pounds in one season ... carbon storage unlikely to be matched by a younger, smaller tree.
-----------
Pity would be no more,
If we did not MAKE men poor - William Blake
"The messy American environment, where most people don't agree, is perfect for people like me. I CAN DO AS I PLEASE." - SECOND
America is an oligarchy http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=57876 .
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We should probably start harvesting hemp again, now that weed is being legalized all over the country.
Why isn't that at thing?
Do Right, Be Right. :)
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It should be. Hemp is great for absorbing CO2 and putting out oxygen.
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Quote:Probably because it is Illegal, all over the country. There is no place in America where it is not Illegal.
Originally posted by 6IXSTRINGJACK:
We should probably start harvesting hemp again, now that weed is being legalized all over the country.
Why isn't that at thing?
Do Right, Be Right. :)
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Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Before people used "socialism" as a smear, they used "commie". (Now, they use "Russian".) Then, when "socialism" became a smear, left-wing Democrats called themselves "Liberals". When "liberal" became a smear, they opted to call themselves "progressives". Now, I don't know WTF the left-end of the Democratic Party calls themselves, since they've allowed themselves to be pushed off their nomeclature.
Why do "they" have to call themselves something? Do they do it or does the opposition do it to smear? I think we know the answer (I do). > Insert Monty Python skit here <
Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
I suggest that people use the already-established definitions, as I do. If you believe that government should have a large hand in funding and determining production, you're a socialist; and if you believe in a national character to socialism (as opposed to global or international socialism) you're a national socialist. If you believe that such a government should be under control of the popular vote, you're a democratic socialist. If you believe that corporations should control government, you're a fascist. If you believe that governments should be under the control of international banks and corporations, you're an international fascist, AKA globalist. If you believe that corporatism is the right economc system but that government needs to step in to ameliorate its worst excesses, then you believe in the welfare state.
^Yep - you subscribe to old, limited, simple minded ways of thinking. That's the past - cya bye.
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Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Probably because it is Illegal, all over the country. There is no place in America where it is not Illegal.
Or...
https://www.vox.com/the-goods/2018/12/13/18139678/cbd-industry-hemp-le
galization-farm-bill
Hemp is now legal. That’s huge for the CBD industry.
Legalizing hemp may also be important for scientists who want to study CBD’s effects.
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