REAL world event discussions

POSTED BY: SignyM
UPDATED: Wednesday, December 2, 2009 00:43
VIEWED: 6855
PAGE 1 of 1

SIGNYM

Thursday, November 26, 2009 3:56 PM

John Lee: It would be nice if you limited your posts to real events, not paranoid delusions. Not that I expect you to- I'm sure the stuff in your head seems very real to you- but the first qualifier to this subforum starts with the word "real".

No response expected.

"Space aliens 'already exist on earth', Bulgarian govt has diplomatic relations"
www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=18&t=40971

KPO

Friday, November 27, 2009 12:50 AM

Good point, perhaps we could have a SURreal World Event forum and invite PN to post there as much as he pleases. Or just move his threads there.

Heads should roll

PIZMOBEACH

Friday, November 27, 2009 1:29 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
John Lee: It would be nice if you limited your posts to real events, not paranoid delusions. Not that I expect you to- I'm sure the stuff in your head seems very real to you- but the first qualifier to this subforum starts with the word "real".

No response expected.

"Space aliens 'already exist on earth', Bulgarian govt has diplomatic relations"
www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=18&t=40971

If everyone stops talking to him the voices get quieter - why does no one else seem to understand this? He posts stupid sh*t and 20 people reply, "that's stupid sh*t!" That's mission accomplished for Inbred Views.

Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com

BYTEMITE

Friday, November 27, 2009 2:20 AM

Can't say I agree.

In the matter of free speech, what's the difference between making PN go post on an alternate board or forbidding him from posting his crazy on here, versus making Democrat protestors go stand in barbed wire enclosed areas three miles from Bush?

KPO

Friday, November 27, 2009 3:50 PM

Quote:
In the matter of free speech, what's the difference between making PN go post on an alternate board or forbidding him from posting his crazy on here, versus making Democrat protestors go stand in barbed wire enclosed areas three miles from Bush?

Well here's my view of it:

People should be free to voice protests and criticisms against their elected leaders - they should be free to set up their own media outlet with that very aim. What those people shouldn't be allowed to do is hijack another media that exists without that stated aim (like CNN for example), to broadcast their views more widely, forcing it in the faces of people who would otherwise have the freedom to snub those broadcasts altogether.

This as I see it, is what PN is doing.

Heads should roll

BYTEMITE

Friday, November 27, 2009 4:35 PM

You don't have the freedom to snub his broadcasts? So I guess whenever Lou Dobbs came on to CNN, you were forced to watch it?

How often do you ignore his threads and posts, have you ever been to his site or listened to his broadcasts?

You have plenty of choice still. Nothing is being shoved in your face.

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT

Friday, November 27, 2009 4:46 PM

It does bother me, sometimes, to log on here and see all 4 topics in RWE be threads started by PN.
Kinda like seeing all 12 topics in the fanfic category used up by a flood from one poster. And we have generally agreed that it's pretty rude to post more than 2 items in a row there.
But there, and here, there's always the " Last 100" list to choose from, and of course, always the option of starting a new thread or posting something yourself to bump him off...

ECGORDON

Friday, November 27, 2009 5:10 PM

I think Jon Stewart should hire PN as a correspondent. Some of his crap is as funny as anything The Daily Show comes up with.

KPO

Friday, November 27, 2009 6:12 PM

Quote:
You don't have the freedom to snub his broadcasts?

Not 'altogether', as I said. The only way to ensure that would be to snub the whole fireflyfans site. Otherwise I *am* forced to encounter his tiresome and repulsive threads - I have to wade through them to get to the genuine RWED discussions (the purpose of a RWED forum).

"You have plenty of choice still"

The choice to stomach PN, or snub the site which doesn't effectively provide what many would come here for. It's the choice we all have, and I'll bet a lot of people, especially passing browsers, have opted for the latter.

Heads should roll

PIZMOBEACH

Friday, November 27, 2009 6:30 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
Can't say I agree.

In the matter of free speech, what's the difference between making PN go post on an alternate board or forbidding him from posting his crazy on here, versus making Democrat protestors go stand in barbed wire enclosed areas three miles from Bush?

Who said anything about making him go elsewhere?

Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com

BYTEMITE

Friday, November 27, 2009 6:38 PM

kpo did. He (or she?) suggested creating an entirely new, PN only board to keep him away from the RWED.

BYTEMITE

Friday, November 27, 2009 6:39 PM

Quote:
The choice to stomach PN, or snub the site which doesn't effectively provide what many would come here for. It's the choice we all have, and I'll bet a lot of people, especially passing browsers, have opted for the latter.

That assumes people come here for RWED, and not Firefly. I suspect it's the opposite, and PN's presence on other parts of the board are minimal and easy to overlook.

Now, I can understand the complaints about the spam and the pushing threads off the main page. That is inconsiderate, and most of us go along with with a non-verbal, non-written agreement to give everyone their chance to be heard. That is a valid complaint, and in this way PN does impose on other people's freedom of speech.

But this thread was started initially to complain about the CONTENT of PN's thread, not the QUANTITY, so on principle I MUST disagree.

PIRATENEWS

Friday, November 27, 2009 7:36 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:

John Lee: It would be nice if you limited your posts to real events, not paranoid delusions. Not that I expect you to- I'm sure the stuff in your head seems very real to you- but the first qualifier to this subforum starts with the word "real".

No response expected.

"Space aliens 'already exist on earth', Bulgarian govt has diplomatic relations"
www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=18&t=40971

You do comprehend that article is verbatim from the elitist Daily Telegraph newspaper, located in London England?

File your complaint with them:
www.telegraph.co.uk/topics/about-us/3519232/Editorial.html

BYTEMITE

Friday, November 27, 2009 7:39 PM

Aaaand with the death threats.

Sometimes I regret defending PN. ._.

OLDENGLANDDRY

Friday, November 27, 2009 8:55 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
You don't have the freedom to snub his broadcasts? So I guess whenever Lou Dobbs came on to CNN, you were forced to watch it?

How often do you ignore his threads and posts, have you ever been to his site or listened to his broadcasts?

You have plenty of choice still. Nothing is being shoved in your face.

It very much is shoved in your face on his site. I visited his site a couple of times and although things might have changed (doubtful) there was a complete lack of any facility to post feedback or opinions of his site or its views. PN is just a mouthpiece spouting off what he happens to believe at the moment and when challenged his almost innevitable responce is a death threat of some kind (see above).
Unfortunately PN won his little war against us some time ago because although we all know that simply ignoring him would solve the problem we are just not able to resist the temptation to respond and every few weeks or months a whole thread becomes dedicated to discussions about and around PN.This then gives him exactly what he wants - attention, and afirms his belief in himself and the ridiculous things he says and thinks.
Personally, I've never understood why the moderators ofthis site have allowed him to post in the first place, particularly the disgusting anti-semitism and threats of violence,but hey,what do I know?

BYTEMITE

Friday, November 27, 2009 9:10 PM

Well, the reason is because we actually don't have any moderators, and despite the complaints against PN, people around here want a moderator even less. The risk is with a moderator is that someone will start playing favourites with the remaining people around here, which will result in banning and discrimination for whichever partisan group is opposite from the moderator's personal stances. My past experience has shown this is pretty much inevitable, and I think a lot of people here would even agree with me, that's the impression I get.

When I made the "not forced to read" argument, though, my point was that if you visit FFF.net, you don't have to visit PN's site. As such, except maybe for the quantity of PN's posts here, it's not "shoved in the face" here, because they can be ignored or even counter-points can be presented.

NIKI2

Friday, November 27, 2009 10:55 PM

Quote:
If everyone stops talking to him the voices get quieter - why does no one else seem to understand this? He posts stupid sh*t and 20 people reply, "that's stupid sh*t!" That's mission accomplished for Inbred Views.

That's how I feel and my question. I scroll past his responses and don't open his threads (as it's usually pretty easy to tell what they are, and when I make a mistake and open one, I just back out), and sometimes post in wonderment why the above.

But at the same time, I DO find it a pain in the neck when so many of his pieces of insanity muck up the thread list and I have to search among them to find anything REAL to read. I find it offensive...the other site I was on had one exactly like him, tho' since it didn't have the capability of posting videos, only links, one didn't have to see the offensive images when scrolling past. I wouldn't be caught dead responding to him (except once or twice in all the time I've been here), those are precious minutes I'd never get back again and like pissing into the wind.

I DO consider what he does as shoving it in my face:

Quote:
What those people shouldn't be allowed to do is hijack another media that exists without that stated aim, to broadcast their views more widely, forcing it in the faces of people who would otherwise have the freedom to snub those broadcasts altogether.

Quote:
PN is just a mouthpiece spouting off what he happens to believe at the moment and when challenged his almost innevitable responce is a death threat of some kind. Unfortunately PN won his little war against us some time ago because although we all know that simply ignoring him would solve the problem we are just not able to resist the temptation to respond.

I couldn't have said it better. There are some people who just should not be allowed to spread their filth on websites (and many don't allow it); that's NOT prohibiting his free speech--"speech" on a website owned by someone isn't free, it's "permitted".

Just as Prejean bitched about her free speech, when it came down to it, her speech wasn't "free" on Miss America and she could have been curtailed if they'd wanted to. PN's free to speak his piece on his own website; nobody has the "right" to free speech on anything but public property. If he wants to stand on a street corner and hold up placards to spew his vile crap, I can walk by and ignore him. Here, I'm forced to scroll past him and hunt up stuff that IS real.

Personally I am disgusted and offended by his viciousness and would LOVE to see everyone ignore him as much as I do, because I believe without the attention he would go away. I firmly believe that is the one and only reason he is HERE. I don't expect it will happen, tho', so it is how it is: a shame.

DREAMTROVE

Friday, November 27, 2009 11:21 PM

Okay, I want to split this one in two:

1. John has the freedom to post his opinions, and I can say that he easily posts more real world events than any other user, and while, sure, they're laced with opinion on a level that would make Glenn Beck drool, sorry Sig, can't say that you have a high portion of opinion free, real world event posts in your total score. Nothing personal, just saying, glass houses, throwing stones, that sort of thing.

So on point one, gotta side with John: He *does* post real world events and he *is* entitled to his own opinions.

As someone three times institutionalized myself, and long term guinea pig of the "mental health" establishment (see all advertising is a lie, if you have to say it in your name, it's a lie, ie, "department of defense," means "ministry of war.") But still, I had to become my own mental health expert in order to cure myself, but in such, I have to say something else, which is going to be double edged, so everyone duck:

John is not the craziest person here, not by a long shot. Okay, maybe he's not the sanest, but this means a couple of things:

First, let me say that I do not judge people by their level of sanity. People might be surprised by where I rank them, but I'm not going to share that information, just that John Lee is a relative sane individual.

However, and here comes the backhand, that means:

John, You are a relatively sane individual which means you are perfectly aware of what you are doing and that you *do* "at times" manipulate the format of the this "free society" to gain maximum exposure.

Sure, people who encourage this might be idiots, in just using your posts for a flame war... BUT

You post two high a number of threads. Can you please, as a favor to me, and the other members of the forum who actually do listen to what you have to say, keep the number of new threads down?

Yes, absolutely, if you have a new topic, and it's a real world event, or it's about the nature of conduct on the forum, post a new thread!

But a lot of times you post subjects that are already being discussed, either because you're not reading the threads, or because this will get you more traffic. It's minorly annoying. Try to limit it

Secondly, you often post 6 new threads at once. This is really annoying at times, because people are trying to follow threads that get burried. Combine them when logical, and post in as few new threads as possible.

Really, and I think this sincerely: It's not the *content* of threads that draws ire, it's the quantity. They at times reach a level that one might call "spam" and I undoubtedly have.

That said, I want to hear what you have to say. I also want to hear what other people have to say, and say some things myself

Finally, I think that like your stance against jews, your format of posting is injurious to your argument. If you want to oppose certain parts of Talmudic scripture, fine, it's easily attackable. So is the bible, which at some point contains a line that reads something like this "and so they went forth and killed all the men, their wives, and their children, and even down to their animals, and God saw this, and he said that it was good" okay, it's not an exact quote, but it's in either kings or Chronicles. If someone can't attack that, then there is no free speech.

But calling for the exterminiation of jewish people or culture is not free speech, since free speech has never covered incitement to criminal activity. I'm not calling you out on this because I think you intend to incite activity against jews, or should be barred from doing so, but in a purely self serving manner you should recognize that it does discredit your argument.

Furthermore, posting in a manner which constitutes the original definition of spam also discredits your argument.

So, yes, Sig has a half of a point, you should let others speak, you swing your arms to a point where the noses of others are just slightly swiped.

That said...

Sig, John has the other half of a point. It's free speech, and he has s

KPO

Saturday, November 28, 2009 12:08 AM

Quote:
But this thread was started initially to complain about the CONTENT of PN's thread, not the QUANTITY

True, it's the content that really upsets people - but my complaint against PN is not that his posts are foul, but that I am forced to wade through them. The foulness just makes it worse.

So I am not complaining about 'content' or 'quantity' (there are other prodigous posters here in RWED that I have nothing against) of his threads, but the NATURE of them - which is propoganda/proselytising spam. I am genuinely quite happy for people to try to convert me to their views through reason and debate (even repugnant views) - but not through propoganda bombardment from an un-engagable spewing mouthpiece.

It is only PN that does it, and he does it to the extent of nuisance.

I think we can and should draw the line here, on the grounds that an internet (discussion) forum is not meant as a platform for a spam-spewing mouthpiece. Why have a Troll country but not a Spam country? Nobody complains about the free-speech infringements on the trolls - are spammers less annoying?

Heads should roll

BYTEMITE

Saturday, November 28, 2009 12:41 AM

And the problem I see with this is the inevitable outcome. In order to make up for every post that gets moved to a hypothetical spam country, PN will have to post MORE.

Until either 1) he decides to leave (which he won't, and if you want to keep the moral high-ground here, instituting a change which will force someone to leave is... not that), or 2) the rest of US leave.

He has the energy and ability to keep up, I have no doubts about it. So I'd ask yourself which you think is worse, a PN who posts away with some inconvenience, or a PN who thinks his free speech is impinged and decides to go on the attack.

KPO

Saturday, November 28, 2009 12:54 AM

Steps to take, until the nuisance (including any 'fight back') is contained:

1) Move his threads to Spam Country
2) Disable his ability to post threads
3) Disable his account (ability to post at all)
4) Repeat steps 1-3, for any spam-account that appears in the future and reaches nuisance value.

Heads should roll

BYTEMITE

Saturday, November 28, 2009 1:06 AM

...It's just making a bigger problem, though. The steps you outline seem to suggest that you want to wage some kind of war on PN, and that the point IS chasing PN away. There would be collateral damage, and I can't agree with the chasing away part.

I know that sounds hypocritical coming from me, because there was someone that I waged a war on myself here who I thought was a troll and now I'm not so sure about. But I am speaking from experience here. And compared to the person I was fighting with, PN isn't near as frustrating.

KWICKO

Saturday, November 28, 2009 1:15 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
Can't say I agree.

In the matter of free speech, what's the difference between making PN go post on an alternate board or forbidding him from posting his crazy on here, versus making Democrat protestors go stand in barbed wire enclosed areas three miles from Bush?

DINGDINGDINGDING! Byte for the win!

PN's tripe is generally pure garbage, but last time I checked, garbage has the right to be garbage. I'll ignore, I'll snark, I'll poke fun, but I won't censor.

Mike

Work is the curse of the Drinking Class.
- Oscar Wilde

KPO

Saturday, November 28, 2009 1:51 AM

Quote:
The steps you outline seem to suggest that you want to wage some kind of war on PN

The steps are just a series of measures of blocking spam, they're nothing vindictive. And I think it's a sound approach to take towards any nuisance spammer (at the moment PN is the only one).

Quote:
the point IS chasing PN away

I'm quite happy for PN to stay, minus the spamming bombardment. It's up to PN whether he is. A compromise would be for PN to reduce his spamming to below nuisance levels, but I reckon it's his strategy (and maybe he thinks his 'right') to get in people's faces alot.

Quote:
there was someone that I waged a war on myself

I can't imagine you waging war on anyone Byte.

Heads should roll

BYTEMITE

Saturday, November 28, 2009 3:00 AM

Well... all right, then, just so long as the intention isn't to single out any one user, because any of us could then become a target based on popularity.

I still would be very uneasy about your proposal because of what it might cause and mean, but I suppose it's up to Haken.

Quote:
I can't imagine you waging war on anyone Byte.

I think you've probably met KINGIECHOLS. He caught a lot of flak over his boastful, insulting posting style, but what pushed me over the edge was when he started complaining non-stop over his threads being moved to Troll County because of said boasting and insulting. So the two of us started a spam war against each other.

He stopped, but I've always felt ashamed over how I acted. I've since been mostly trying to leave King alone, but if he posts something good, I try to be nice to him.

FREMDFIRMA

Saturday, November 28, 2009 5:01 AM

BYTE

Quote:
Now, I can understand the complaints about the spam and the pushing threads off the main page. That is inconsiderate, and most of us go along with with a non-verbal, non-written agreement to give everyone their chance to be heard. That is a valid complaint, and in this way PN does impose on other people's freedom of speech.

Of course, PN is not alone in that, since I have felt the same way about certain other intolerant folk around here spewing hate at other cultures and beliefs, something I find every bit as offensive, at least PN is bonkers, what's their excuse ?

Quote:
Sometimes I regret defending PN.

You ain't alone in that either, but it's the price of free speech, PN, Fred Phelps, and the mighty-whitey-righties, alas.

Quote:
Well, the reason is because we actually don't have any moderators, and despite the complaints against PN, people around here want a moderator even less. The risk is with a moderator is that someone will start playing favourites with the remaining people around here, which will result in banning and discrimination for whichever partisan group is opposite from the moderator's personal stances. My past experience has shown this is pretty much inevitable, and I think a lot of people here would even agree with me, that's the impression I get.

When I made the "not forced to read" argument, though, my point was that if you visit FFF.net, you don't have to visit PN's site. As such, except maybe for the quantity of PN's posts here, it's not "shoved in the face" here, because they can be ignored or even counter-points can be presented.

Which, if worth discussing at all, some of the topics he raises can be discussed WHILE ignoring him, as has happened - or we could post kitties or recipies in the thread if it's otherwise "useless", which has also been done.

Dream

Quote:
John, carpet bombing *does* ultimately, discredit the attacker. You're a fighter pilot, you know this. This ain't a war that can be won through superior firepower, it's only through respect that you can get anyone to listen.

You presume that's what he wants - he ain't goin for respect, he's going for enragement, which depends muchly on your target audience.
The same way the mighty-whitey-righty types try to enrage and wind up the ignorant and weak willed against the enemy of the week, you know ?

On the other hand, I have suspected at least one of them, and most certainly PN, of false-flagging such a "message" in order to completely discredit it - think about it, you howl rage and hate against a culture or belief in someones face with a bullhorn, you're more likely to convince them that you and your message are completely despicable and encourage them to either dismiss it, or lash out against it.

Which is, perhaps, his goal - I might call him bonkers, but I ain't never called him stupid.

Although the actions of the mighty-whitey-righty crowd indirectly blind folk to some very real dangers presented by religious fanatics of any stripe, when they poison the whole argument with intolerant hate.

KPO

Quote:
It is only PN that does it, and he does it to the extent of nuisance.

If only that were true, KPO - I've come here a few times in the past month to see the top threads all containing intolerant hate, although that is comparatively rare, now.

But it didn't used to be, and I do remember that less than fondly, too, cause it drove off many of the original posters.

All in all, if PN is the price of free speech, that's damn cheap for it's value, leastways in my opinion.

-Frem

There always has to be a price.

PIZMOBEACH

Saturday, November 28, 2009 12:33 PM

I honestly don't really care if he posts or not, it's easy to do an eye roll and ignore them as others suggest. He was entertaining back when I first saw them, good for WTF?! sensationalism, but it got stale pretty quick and now he seems kind of out of ideas and reposts a lot of stuff.

I think Signym's request is a good one.

Dream, please! PN does not really *discuss* real world events! Here's a sample of his last threads:

****************************

Pentagon wants Hunter Killer robots in ICBMs to start WW3

Nazi gay porn star Swarzenegger causes riots, raises college tuition 32%

Hackers leak email from 'Global Warming' scammers, Obama perps treason at Hopehagen

Space aliens 'already exist on earth', Bulgarian govt has diplomatic relations

Merck brags Vioxx killed more people than Americans killed in the Vietnam War

Crazy Muslim ampatuans carry out huge Bloodbath in Philippines? worldmedia afraid to mention phrase 'muslim extremists'

Britain Sux: Cops arrest blokes 'just for the DNA'

Britain Sux: Soldiers in Iraq only given 5 bullets, no body armor

Scotland Yard says Obama is not the president

Bill O'Reilly's Crotch: 'I don't care about the Constitution'

Fascist pig cops taser 10-yr-old- girl for refusing shower in her own home

Worried pimp called off Rabbi's three-day coke orgy

Obama orders US troops to protect opium fields, wants new tax to pay Taliban in gold to attack US troops

Attack from outer space 'lit up the whole freakin neighborhood'

Mack Daddy sends CIA and NYPD to arrest Paster Manning re Obama's lack of birth certificate

Ron Paul aide forces TSA Nazis to back off at airports

Britain Sux: Soldier gets 5 years prison for finding gun in his yard

****************************

Those look familiar? The person who called them spam was absolutely right. It is definitely NOT a Free Speech issue. Should spammers be able to send you spam?

In the end it's Haken's board and he's nice enough to let us play here.

Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com

ANTHONYT

Saturday, November 28, 2009 2:27 PM

Hello,

The issue here isn't free speech. It's technology.

A good forum software would allow you to flag people who don't interest you, and it would conceal all of their threads and posts from your view, thus ending the distraction.

It would also prevent subject line changes.

If we really really cared about PN, we could take up a collection for Haken so that he could upgrade to programmable-filter forum technology.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

OLDENGLANDDRY

Saturday, November 28, 2009 3:09 PM

I think Anthony has hit the nail on the head. If there were a reliable way of flagging PN (or others) posts it would enable us to simply steer round him and make ignoring him so much easier.
I think this has been a very good thread with some very engaging comments from all sides. It's certainly caused me to go away and think about how I view the whole issue. I will try one more time to ignore PN's threads, although I cant guarantee the level of success.

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT

Saturday, November 28, 2009 3:15 PM

The issue is content vs quantity. 90 % of his stuff is gose , some of it is hateful, some of it is incitement to criminal behavior

But he's got a free- speech right.

And I can just plain skip his threads-- I usually do. So Haken shouldn't ban him, nor restrict his right to post or start new threads.

Problem comes when he starts 4 threads the same day, and pushes other topics or viewpoints off the RWED list and onto " Top 100"-- that's rude.

Dunno, maybe Haken could implement a policy of only 1 thread a day in RWED? Probably a software or patch somewhere that could do that, for all users, not just PN. And I dunno if even that is a restriction I'd want to see on a political speech board-- some political junkie ( like me, fer instance...) might find 2 different topics in the news the same day that deserved posting and discussion.

A while back , somebody proposed adding "Not PN" to thread titles that were wacky-sounding. Maybe we all need to do that. And if we could get PN to head his with " PN sez--" or something, it'd be pretty close to a better world...

SIGNYM

Saturday, November 28, 2009 4:19 PM

DREAMTROVE

Quote:
Sig, can't say that you have a high portion of opinion free, real world event posts in your total score. Nothing personal, just saying, glass houses, throwing stones, that sort of thing... John is not the craziest person here, not by a long shot. Okay, maybe he's not the sanest, but this means a couple of things... People might be surprised by where I rank them, but I'm not going to share that information, just that John Lee is a relative sane individual.

I also have my list of who's sane(r) and who's not, and who is more opinion-free and who's not. And I suspect we ALL have lists like that in our heads. ETA: But I'd be curious as to what your list looks like. Care to share?

Also, you seem to have developed a grotch against me for no reason that I can tell, sideswiping me in various threads that I haven't even posted in, name-calling etc. Why is that?

JOHN LEE
Saying "It's in the Telegraph" does not absolve YOU of the responsibility of sifting the dreck from the real. Hell, man, I saw an article about a mink coat which came to life, bit its owner to death and ran away. (Word!) But I'm not gonna post it as "Secret Jewish-Nazi-British zombie experiment run amok in Budapest". If you depend on your "sources" to sift the real from the unreal, don't you realize that you have just given "them" the power? For your own safety, try to keep at least one foot in the real, real world. Retain that power for yourself, m'kay?

ALL
I suspect that PN is using this site as an alternate "news outlet", possibly to get around being blocked by other outlets. I believe he is abusing the intent of the forum. Nonetheless, I don't think he should be banned or even shifted off to the malicious thread. I WOULD like his posts be tagged though, so that I can scroll past them instead of having to open some of them up to see who originated it or - WORSE, IMO - scanning past other posts because they "sound" like PN. A little organization can get us past his forum abuse.

NIKI2

Saturday, November 28, 2009 5:15 PM

Quote:
I suspect that PN is using this site as an alternate "news outlet", possibly to get around being blocked by other outlets. I believe he is abusing the intent of the forum. Nonetheless, I don't think he should be banned or even shifted off to the malicious thread. I WOULD like his posts be tagged though, so that I can scroll past them instead of having to open some of them up to see who originated it

On the nose, as far as I'm concerned. And the idea that he offers much "real world" material is almost as funny as the concept that he WANTS to "discuss" anything he puts up.

And I LOVE Anthony's idea:

Quote:
A good forum software would allow you to flag people who don't interest you, and it would conceal all of their threads and posts from your view, thus ending the distraction.

The other forum I was on did that, and made it SO much easier; my only problem was the delight in some I had blocked in going after me, so I would read someone else's response and curiosity would get the better of me, which always turned out badly...that's on me, nobody else.

The software there didn't hide the THREADS, tho', only the posts, so it doesn't change his spamming the list with sometimes MANY (4?!?!?) threads in one day and knocking everything else down. But it solves half the problem, and since his threads are pretty easy to spot, and/or back out of if I don't realize they're him, that would be a GREAT idea!

Anyone tell me where to send Haken the contribution, I'm in!

I repeat, just for the sake of argument, however, that "legally" speech isn't "free" here because it is a privately-owned site. Many sites block "forbidden" words, and a large percentage of what PN posts would be blocked.

DREAMTROVE

Saturday, November 28, 2009 6:00 PM

Frem,

I take your point that PN may be going for anger, I know that the US bombing has chaos as its goal, rather than conquest.

That said, I don't buy PN as a jewish mole. I've seen this done before, but only within the neonazi set. John ties zionists to the Nazis, and even if he makes errors in doing so, he is not entirely wrong. This is a secret that a jewish elite would *not* want to spill, even in the process of trying to discredit a message.

It's possible tho.

Pizmo,

I never said that he "discussed" real world events, only that he posts them. He discusses very little. He carpetbombs. The initial posts are often real world events. Sure, he posts a lot of pure opinion threads, but as I said, he fires a lot, so he's bound to hit something. He posts more real world events than most of us, maybe than anyone, even if it's not more by % of posts.

And no, he doesn't discuss them, in general. Occasionally he does

SignyM

I concur, I just don't think it's relevant to the issue at hand. It's not a question of whether a poster is bonkers, politically slanted, or opinionated, but whether or not they post real world events vs. opinion.

Pirate News posts a lot of real world events, and yes, he also posts a lot of opinion. But I don't see a lot of fire here coming from people who post significantly more real world events, and a lot of people here post a lot of opinion. Whether or not that opinion is more cogent was not the issue at hand. It was just a matter of posting real world events.

If you disagree with John's opinions, you're probably close to a unanimous majority. Myself, I avoid major disagreements altogether, and only nitpick whether or not Moloch is an owl, etc. In short, factual disagreements. I'm not going to debate the validity of the state of Israel.

FREMDFIRMA

Saturday, November 28, 2009 6:31 PM

Gotta take issue, here, Pizmo.

Some of those, despite his ludicrous titles, were actually quite worthy of discussion, particular the cop tasering that kid, and the TSA being forced to back off - sometimes folk around here are a little too quick to dismiss the message cause of the messenger.

I don't blame em too much, but Sturgeons law does have that ten percent, yanno.

Anthony ?

I already use software that allows such a blacklist, but I question the utility of incorporating it into the forum itself - not just because of the technical difficulty, but because some folk wanna bang their little drums without ever hearing a word of dissent, and that would allow them to ensure it, which would not only cripple discussion, but would actually ENCOURAGE them to spout off their intolerant hate, because they'd not be forced to deal with us mocking it and picking it apart.

That's one of those things that only sounds like a good idea till you think it all the way through.

That's *almost* as bad as the hate-friendly "moderation" on certain boards ( THR comes to mind ) which not only allows such things to fester, but actively bans calling folk out on it.

Yeah, I got banned offa THR for calling out someone who was advocating the death of all muslims, pointing out that he was essentially calling for genocide, and suggesting that helping them throw out their own radicals was a better idea - and the mod in question took MORE issue with that than he did for the genocide comment...

I did find amusement that their server admin, who was arabic and muslim in descent, pulled a fast on one them when they tried some funny business with potential financial support from some hard-right wackjobs, although he was no more innocent of anything than they were, not even Oleg - given that was the first time I've ever known him to lie to me.

Trust me, Anthony - incorporating the ability to blacklist anyone who disagrees with you would kill the value of this forum pretty quick.

Not that I am unsympathetic to peoples "issues" with the guy, but I kinda like our pet crazy even when he does get on our nerves - and just can't stomach the idea of pushin him out the airlock, yanno ?

-F

NIKI2

Saturday, November 28, 2009 6:38 PM

I don't think the comparison between being able to "block" offensive people if one chooses to and having a mod is accurate. I see a HUGE difference.

As to

Quote:
some folk wanna bang their little drums without ever hearing a word of dissent

those people go right on banging their drums whether they get dissent or not. Conversely, if they were blocked, fewer people would reply and they wouldn't get the attention they seek. PN being a prime example. Wouldn't stop them, but it would help in keeping their threads from rising to the top as much, and give those of us who would like it more peace.

I love a good discussion/debate, and could jump into one after it began if it was about something worthwhile, yet still not deal with the uglier parts. People like PN DO only want to bang their drum and spend hours posting long diatribes, complete with videos. Blocked by each individual who doesn't want to deal with it would reduce their posts to one line, which would be nice, in my opinion.

SIGNYM

Saturday, November 28, 2009 6:40 PM

DT: There are several parts to the Real World Events Discussion header. One is that the events posted are in the real world. The other is that they're posted for discussion. John's posts are (by percentage) neither real, nor is he open to discussing them.

Quote:
.. only nitpick whether or not Moloch is an owl, etc. In short, factual disagreements.

I can see discussing whether Moloch is normally represented as an owl although it seems a pointless topic. But isn't discussing whether Moloch "is" an owl like discussing how many angels can dance on the head of a pin? Unless you accept the actuality of Moloch (or angels) it hardly seems factual. I think what you're saying is that you're not going to challenge people's basic vision of reality, but work within it. ETA: But that defeats the purpose of the forum. If PN is here to challenge our view of reality then we can challenge his.

I understand "insanity" is a dangerous political concept. What most of us consider as "reality" is often what is "socially acceptable"- what we are TOLD is real by our parents, teachers, businesses, and government. It's far too easy to label rebellion or paradigm-challenging insight as insane. Freud labeled HIS patients insane when they recalled childhood abuse, and came up with a twisted theory about the psyche to explain away the inconvenient fact that proper, middle-class parents were abusive monsters. Today, people are called "depressed" when they respond very naturally to their powerlessness in our current dystopia, and handed little pills to bring them back to the unrealistic optimism which is considered "normal" in this fucked-up society.

Also, we have this trope (trope, right?) of the insane who is really wise, who sees things that most people don't. Maybe there's some truth in that... maybe it takes a touch of "insanity" to reject the paradigms we're so immersed in we can't see any differently.

Which is why I don't want PN banned from the forum, simply labeled. That way, we could do what we normally do in face-to-face life: We could identify right away who was talking without having to listen to them first.

NIKI2

Saturday, November 28, 2009 7:03 PM

Sig: Ooo, well spoken...I agree with every word. And right on with

Quote:
John's posts are (by percentage) neither real, nor is he open to discussing them.

, which is the point several of us have been trying to make, but not nearly as cogently.

BYTEMITE

Saturday, November 28, 2009 8:07 PM

Quote:
Also, we have this trope (trope, right?) of the insane who is really wise, who sees things that most people don't. Maybe there's some truth in that... maybe it takes a touch of "insanity" to reject the paradigms we're so immersed in we can't see any differently.

Hmm, if you're asking, it could be a few tropes.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CassandraTruth

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MadOracle

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AgentMulder

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/YouHaveToBelieveMe

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CryingWolf

RUE

Saturday, November 28, 2009 8:45 PM

I think people misunderstand the concept of 'free speech'. It's NOT a blanket right to say whatever you want, wherever you want, whenever you want, however you want. I cannot punch you in the face and claim it is my 'free expression' of what I think of you.

This is what's in the constitution:

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

YOUR free speech rights go only as far as lack of federal law abridging them. Any other abridgement by any other entity is fair game. That is, at least, according to the 'strict constitutionalists' who are the current Supreme Court majority.

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

FREMDFIRMA

Saturday, November 28, 2009 9:04 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
Quote:
Also, we have this trope (trope, right?) of the insane who is really wise, who sees things that most people don't. Maybe there's some truth in that... maybe it takes a touch of "insanity" to reject the paradigms we're so immersed in we can't see any differently.

Hmm, if you're asking, it could be a few tropes

Actually (the DB is down right now..) it would be CloudCuckooLander and The CloudCuckooLander was right.

Which is all the more amusing since technically imma loon as well and my original monniker was C-6/Cuckoobird.

-F

SIGNYM

Saturday, November 28, 2009 9:14 PM

RUE: I'm with George Carlin on this one. There ARE no "rights"... at least not "god-given", "natural" or "inalienable". They're the flip side of "obligations".

ANTHONYT

Saturday, November 28, 2009 9:16 PM

"Trust me, Anthony - incorporating the ability to blacklist anyone who disagrees with you would kill the value of this forum pretty quick."

Hello,

I don't think so, Frem. If people on this forum weren't open to disagreement, they'd move to a forum populated exclusively by people who agreed with them. Such places do exist, for any community of like-minded souls.

I find that people on this forum are generally open to having a good discussion and even a civil argument on a variety of issues. In fact, most people here actually look forward to such things.

What they don't like is loony tunes behavior or conversation that is all expletives and no content.

Moreover, anyone who does want nothing more than unopposed drum banging would be happily isolated in their own little universe... which is where they live anyhow.

Programmable filters are the epitome of something rarely discussed. Free speech is often brought up. The freedom to choose who to listen to isn't. In the past, the best we can do is put ear plugs on or play a song in our walkman. But the world of modern technology now lets us fast forward through commercials, and even pre-select the sort of material we want to watch later on.

That's Freedom, baby, and no Anarchist is gonna talk me out of it being a good thing. ;-)

(That was a bit of a humorous irony, since I assume anarchists are actually in favor of more choice, and less of being a forced audience.)

People often discuss the wonderful things Piratenews does in bringing things to the attention of people here. What they fail to realize is that in the absence of Piratenews, other more reasonable people would be talking about tasering kids and etc. It was on my list of things to investigate already when Piratenews posted it here. I mean, the bloody thing was on CNN.

Not to mention that Piratenews is such an effective Man In Black that anything he posts is almost instantly dismissed by the vast majority. Which is a disservice to the limited amount of valid news he does bring here.

If I could filter here, I could happily read the same information he posts, but instead posted by someone reasonable in a new thread, sans Nazis or Jews or any of his usual nonsense.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

ANTHONYT

Saturday, November 28, 2009 9:21 PM

"I cannot punch you in the face and claim it is my 'free expression' of what I think of you."

Hello,

I don't think face punching is a remotely valid allegory to free speech.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

RUE

Saturday, November 28, 2009 9:36 PM

Well, people have made all sorts of links between 'free speech' (one presumes actual verbal speech) and non-verbal 'freedom of expression' like, say, flag burning, visual art, letters and other non-press written text etc.

I'm just trying to reiterate a point - there is a line that was drawn, is drawn, and will always be drawn when it comes to free speech. Our free speech is to some extent an oxymoron - we have permitted free speech. And then there is speech which is not.

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

ANTHONYT

Saturday, November 28, 2009 9:42 PM

Hello,

Generally that line has been drawn at speech which incites immediate verifiable harm to other human beings or their property. That's a narrow focus of limited behavior.

The exception has lamentably sometimes involved nudity, which I don't agree with. In other countries, Free Speech has been abridged so horribly that merely advocating a certain belief system is not permitted. That is just horrible.

And of course Free Speech guarantees only protect you in areas controlled by the government. They will do little to protect you at my dining room table, where insulting my wife will find you expelled from the premises.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

RUE

Saturday, November 28, 2009 9:59 PM

"Generally that line has been drawn at speech which incites immediate verifiable harm to other human beings or their property. That's a narrow focus of limited behavior."

Well, there is also slander and libel. There is criticizing a company or product (beef). There is discussing information which a company claims is proprietary (it doesn't have to be). There is the NSA monitoring phone calls with context-sensitive software. (WHAT ??! They're not keeping you from saying anything, are they ?) There is criticizing your boss - even on-line, even if not by name. Even if it's true.

There are so MANY restrictions on free speech, large and small. And they go far beyond the 'immediate verifiable harm' condition.

Please note I'm not supporting these restrictions. (I feel I have to bold this b/c I guarantee someone - cough frem - will claim I'm a jackboot.) I'm just pointing out that 'free speech' is not what people seem to think it is. And I'm hoping for a little bit more accuracy in the arguments.

***************************************************************

Silence is consent.

DREAMTROVE

Saturday, November 28, 2009 10:19 PM

Sig

John may have had mental health issues due to Gulf War syndrome in the past, but he is far from the craziest among us.

Moloch *does* exist, and that's important. If you take the position of "God doesn't exist" than you are left with a terrible conundrum trying to explain the existence of religion.

Unless you're going to argue that Judaism doesn't exist.

Gods exist because they have believers. People believe in Moloch. John believes in Moloch. Whether or not there are people who believe in Moloch and choose to follow him is up to debate. I suspect there probably are, but that their power, influence and numbers are exaggerated by judeo-christians (to differentiate from strict new-testament or 1st c. style christians, to whom Moloch/Molech is not an issue.)

But banning users and having a mod amounts to the same thing: A limit on free speech. I vote against it. I'm in the overwhelming majority here.

Nik,

I concur with Frem above, not much else to say.

Kathy,

This is not about law or the constitution. The forum has its own rules. I had a long discussion with Haken over this very point and he made it very clear that unless a user was a liability to the site, a legal or financial liability, or otherwise costing a large number of users, then there were no limits on speech. He made it quite clear that nothing posted by Pirate News or River6213 in his opinion was outside of the spectrum of the Forum TOS. And he had reviewed posts before making that decision, and so he saw everything we saw, and said that said users were perfectly in their rights, etc.

Since this is Haken's page, and he made the point perfectly clear, I felt there was nothing more to discuss. I get flack for defending above mentioned users, but I am sticking to my guns.

Besides...

Why are we still talking about what's already been decided?

PIZMOBEACH

Saturday, November 28, 2009 10:34 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
Gotta take issue, here, Pizmo.

Some of those, despite his ludicrous titles, were actually quite worthy of discussion, particular the cop tasering that kid, and the TSA being forced to back off - sometimes folk around here are a little too quick to dismiss the message cause of the messenger.

Frem - I hear you but as you suggest, I'm not going to wade through his posts to get to any so called *facts* since in my experience he doesn't really bring any. I wouldn't trust his *facts* anyway - would you?
True, he uses current events to construct his threads, but so do spammers.

47 posts into the thread, lots of people have weighed in with some good insights. A good discussion on Freedoms and Rules and Banning but nothing from Pirate News.

I'd kind of like to hear from him instead of us all talking about him in third person.

How about it John Lee/Pirate News - how's this sittin' with you? You have an equal share here - no one wants to talk for you.

Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com

BYTEMITE

Saturday, November 28, 2009 10:56 PM

Quote:
That was a bit of a humorous irony, since I assume anarchists are actually in favor of more choice, and less of being a forced audience.

Oh, I'm pretty sure Frem is the last person anyone would like to try to force an audience with.

Which is partially why the whole forced audience thing is a question here. The person PN should MOST bother, if PN is what you say, that SHOULD be Frem. That it doesn't bother him is significant.

Perhaps we all have very different definitions of "forced."

The guy yelling on the streetcorner (PN) is creating excessive noise pollution that you might catch an earful of, but is also relatively easy to ignore... even without headphones. If there's a guy yelling on EVERY street corner, I grant you it can be tougher, but still ignorable.

PIRATENEWS

Saturday, November 28, 2009 11:02 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by pizmobeach:

47 posts into the thread, lots of people have weighed in with some good insights. A good discussion on Freedoms and Rules and Banning but nothing from Pirate News.

I'd kind of like to hear from him instead of us all talking about him in third person.

How about it John Lee/Pirate News - how's this sittin' with you? You have an equal share here - no one wants to talk for you.

You failed to read my previous post on this thread:

Quote:
Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:

John Lee: It would be nice if you limited your posts to real events, not paranoid delusions. Not that I expect you to- I'm sure the stuff in your head seems very real to you- but the first qualifier to this subforum starts with the word "real".

No response expected.

"Space aliens 'already exist on earth', Bulgarian govt has diplomatic relations"
www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=18&t=40971

You do comprehend that article is verbatim from the elitist Daily Telegraph newspaper, located in London England?

File your complaint with them:
www.telegraph.co.uk/topics/about-us/3519232/Editorial.html

Everything I post is Real World History, which of course is insane history, perped by insane people who want to be our dictators. All psychiatrists and courts define insanity as denial.

Quote:
"A dictatorship would be a heck of a lot easier, no question about it."
—George Bush Jr
youtube.com/watch?v=A09Ha5M82us

"I don't give a goddamn! I'm the President and the Commander-in-Chief. Do it my way! Stop throwing the Constitution in my face!. It's just a goddamned piece of paper!"
—George Bush Jr, Capital Hill Blue, Bush on the Constitution: 'It's just a goddamned piece of paper, December 5, 2005
www.capitolhillblue.com/artman/publish/article_7779.shtml

"You can fool some of the people all of the time, and those are the ones you want to concentrate on."
-George W Bush, Gridiron Dinner, March 2001

"If the people knew what we had done, they would chase us down the street and lynch us.”
—President George H. W. Bush Sr Knight of the British Empire, conversation with US Army Intelligence agent and White House press corps Sarah McClendon, December 1992

The Operatives on this board and the internet are doing everything they can to wage Weapons of Mass Distration this week, to enable Hussein Obama Soetoro to overthrow USA once and for all at the Nazi Hopenhagen United Nations Corp Global Warming Tax Scam CONference this next week. This illegal "treaty" will ban 85% of all jobs, genocide 85% of the population, and double taxes on the survivors. THIS IS WAR.
http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=18&t=40913

BTW "moderator" is code name for police Operative, and is the #1 tool for censorship of the internet by the govt. The mission for mods is to kill forums, which are kicking the a$$ets of the corporate media.

Obama meets his Jewish brother who lives in Communist China with his Chinese wife, says their father was a wife-beating alcoholic bigamist
/ www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/11/18/obama.half.brother/index.html
http://edition.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/11/04/obama.half.brother/index.ht
ml

"Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it."
-Famous Dead Guy

PIZMOBEACH

Saturday, November 28, 2009 11:12 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by piratenews:
Quote:
Originally posted by pizmobeach:

47 posts into the thread, lots of people have weighed in with some good insights. A good discussion on Freedoms and Rules and Banning but nothing from Pirate News.

I'd kind of like to hear from him instead of us all talking about him in third person.

How about it John Lee/Pirate News - how's this sittin' with you? You have an equal share here - no one wants to talk for you.

You failed to read my previous post on this thread:

Yeah, no, I did read it. It was as unilluminating then as now. It makes me think you are unconcerned with what these people think of your threads. That certainly is your choice, thanks for posting.

Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com

PIRATENEWS

Saturday, November 28, 2009 11:28 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by pizmobeach:
Quote:
Originally posted by piratenews:
Quote:
Originally posted by pizmobeach:

47 posts into the thread, lots of people have weighed in with some good insights. A good discussion on Freedoms and Rules and Banning but nothing from Pirate News.

I'd kind of like to hear from him instead of us all talking about him in third person.

How about it John Lee/Pirate News - how's this sittin' with you? You have an equal share here - no one wants to talk for you.

You failed to read my previous post on this thread:

Yeah, no, I did read it. It was as unilluminating then as now. It makes me think you are unconcerned with what these people think of your threads. That certainly is your choice, thanks for posting.

I care not what insane criminals think about me nor the facts, other than I shoot them when need be in lawful self defense. BTW every human being is born with a License To Kill -- it's called the 2nd Amendment in USA. I do get death threats and bullet holes in my car from govt employees, who don't like it when I get them arrested and convicted of murder.
http://piratenews.org/how-to-catch-a-govt-hitman.html

Quote:
"A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and he carries his banners openly. But the traitor moves among those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not traitor, he speaks in the accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their garments, and he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of a city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murderer is less to be feared."
-Cicero, 42 B.C.

"You know what happened to the Romans? The last six Roman emperors were fags. Neither in a public way. You know what happened to the popes? They were layin' the nuns; that's been goin' on for years, centuries. But the Catholic Church went to hell three or four centuries ago. It was homosexual, and it had to be cleaned out. That's what's happened to Britain. It happened earlier to France. Let's look at the strong societies. The Russians. Goddamn, they root 'em out. They don't let 'em around at all. The upper class in San Francisco is that way. The Bohemian Grove, which I attend from time to time--it is the most faggy goddamned thing you could ever imagine, with that San Francisco crowd. I can't shake hands with anybody from San Francisco." [because they hold each other's penises while they stand naked and urinate on the giant redwood trees]
-President Richard Nixon, White House audiotapes
www.prisonplanet.com/032604nixontape.html

"Shit's gettin way too complicated for me. There are white folks, and then there are ignorant mutherfuckers like you! You can put lipstick on a pig. Sorry ass mutherfucker's got nuttin on me. I inhaled frequently - that was the point. Pot helped, and booze. A little blow when you could afford it. Junkie, pothead. That's where I'd been headed. You ain't my bitch nigger, git your own damn fries!"
-Barack Hussein Obama Soetoro, Dreams From My Father
www.archive.org/details/ObamaInauguralMashup/

Gay foreign exchange student and cocaine dealer Barack Hussein Obama Soetoro smoking dope

CIA opium kingpin Obama increased heroin production 12,000% in Afghanistan

If you don't like "my" topics (quoted from the news corporations), then post your own. Hint: Threads dedicated to me don't count.

SIGNYM

Sunday, November 29, 2009 12:49 AM

DT-

Quote:
Sig

John may have had mental health issues due to Gulf War syndrome in the past, but he is far from the craziest among us.

Moloch *does* exist, and that's important. If you take the position of "God doesn't exist" than you are left with a terrible conundrum trying to explain the existence of religion. Unless you're going to argue that Judaism doesn't exist.

People are very good at thinking up things which don't exist at all. For example, the flying spaghetti monster. Purple dragons. Harvey the six-foot rabbit. That's my explanation for religion.

Quote:
Gods exist because they have believers.

Nope, can't create stuff just by believing in it.

Quote:
People believe in Moloch. John believes in Moloch. Whether or not there are people who believe in Moloch and choose to follow him is up to debate. I suspect there probably are, but that their power, influence and numbers are exaggerated by judeo-christians (to differentiate from strict new-testament or 1st c. style christians, to whom Moloch/Molech is not an issue.)

People certainly behave as if various ideas exist, but that doesnt' bring them into actual existence. I can pray to god until I'm 120 to turn on the light for me, but in the end I'm gonna have to get up and flick the damn switch myself.

SIGNYM

Sunday, November 29, 2009 12:52 AM

Quote:
This illegal "treaty" will ban 85% of all jobs, genocide 85% of the population, and double taxes on the survivors. THIS IS WAR.

Hey John, any predictions as to WHEN this is gonna happen? 'Cause if you predict some time in the next two years, I'm gonna start a betting pool on it.

PIRATENEWS

Sunday, November 29, 2009 1:11 AM

In 8 days, USA will cease to exist...

Quote:

Obama Will Attend Copenhagen - Dec 7-18, 2009

The New York Times is reporting that President Obama will stop in Copenhagen on his way to Oslo to accept the Nobel Peace Prize.

UPDATE: Along with the announcement that President Obama will travel to Copenhagen, the White House said today that the President will pledege to cut 2005-level greenhouse gas emmissions by 17% by 2020. Obama has already set a goal of cutting emissions by 83% by 2050; along with the 2020 pledge, the White House is also setting targets of 30% by 2025 and 42% by 2030.

Hopenhagen is a movement generated by the International Advertising Association representing the global advertising indutry in support of the United Nations.

http://hopenhagen.org/blogEntry/60922

Obama pardons a turkey, sends 40,000 more troops to die, wins Nobel Peace Prize
http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=18&t=40952

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Quote:
This illegal "treaty" will ban 85% of all jobs, genocide 85% of the population, and double taxes on the survivors. THIS IS WAR.
Hey John, any predictions as to WHEN this is gonna happen? 'Cause if you predict some time in the next two years, I'm gonna start a betting pool on it.

Without "fossil" fuels, it's impossible to grow food, thus sheeple starve to death by the billions. Do you own your own garden? If not, you and your family will soon be dead, forever, if Gore and Obama have their way with you.

Quote:
United Nations Framework on Climate Change

15 Sept 2009

The quantified global goal of greenhouse gas emissions reductions agreed upon, for the short (2020) and the long (2050) terms, with the associated stabilization levels of greenhouse gases and global mean temperature rises. As well, the year of maximum global emissions and the differentiated contribution to the goal of all the groups of countries, Parties to the Convention and lead by developed countries.

Requires reversing the trend of increasing global greenhouse gas emissions by 2020 at the latest. For this purpose, the Parties shall collectively reduce global emissions by at least 85 per cent from 1990 levels by 2050.

Full text of UN treaty: http://wattsupwiththat.files.wordpress.com/2009/10/un-fccc-copenhagen-
2009.pdf

British House of Lords: "The Treaty In Copenhagen Will Create A Communist One World Government, Terminate the UN, Arrest All Global Warming Taxers"
www.prisonplanet.com/lord-monckton-end-the-un.html
www.wattsupwiththat.com/2009/10/16/obama-poised-to-cede-us-sovereignty
-in-copenhagen-claims-british-lord-monckton/

Are you angry yet? If not, you're already dead

FREMDFIRMA

Sunday, November 29, 2009 1:49 AM

Just a few quick notes.

Yes, this country and society places more restrictions on free speech than it should, than legally allowable - I know this, more than any.
That is one reason I happen to be so staunch in defending it even when I happen to be completely offended by how someone uses it - cause it's all too easy to go down an ugly road that way.

Besides, I believe in the IDEAL of america, what we should be striving for, reaching for, not this halfassed hypocritical flimflam sham of it we practice, that ain't good enough for me, civilization was a beginning, not the ending.

And nah, I don't have much trust in PN's "Facts" - but then, given how often and how severely mainstream news lies through their teeth to us, I don't trust anyones without some level of review or verification.

Byte seems to have the salient point, I don't wanna shut him up, but ain't nothin makin me pay a mind to him neither, if I really don't want to - if I click on a thread or scroll to a post of his without intention, what's it cost me ?
Less than two seconds, maybe ?
Cheap at the damn price, really it is - although it does amuse me how impatient people are these days, watching my niece stand in front of the microwave tapping her foot waiting for her popcorn cracked me up, and I could not for the life of me explain the why of it to her.

Maybe I am just more patient, I dunno.

And lastly, on a positive note...

Quote:
Nope, can't create stuff just by believing in it.

Maybe not, but if you really, truly believe - and are willing to put action behind that belief, you can accomplish miracles, both personally and professionally.

And as noted, as of Feb 2009, Pathway was put out of commission good and proper - despite the entire idea having been blatantly "impossible" from the start.

Even childhood dreams, like owning my own arcade games, which due to expense and other concerns was shattered at one time, technology lended a hand with the MAME Emulator and 535 original Arcade ROMS, everything from Pacman and Space Invaders to Roadblasters is mine to play whenever the hell I please.

So no, I do not believe in "impossible" - but I do wish that those who claim to believe in peace and tolerance would both quit lying to themselves about it and actually put FAITH in it, and act on that faith in a real way instead of mumbling conscience-soothing platitudes.

To crib from Book, I do believe in what I do, and I believe hard - but I also ask why, and how, for without those questions belief means nothing.

-Frem
"You summoned me..."

SIGNYM

Sunday, November 29, 2009 3:16 AM

Quote:
sheeple starve to death by the billions.

Hey JOHN- I can predict too!

Yellowstone super-volcano wakes up, destroys earth!

San Andres fault rips California in two!

Stocks plunge 30% in one week!

Mass starvation hits globe as fossil fuels run dry!

Sun goes dim! Planet doomed!

FREM

Quote:
Maybe not, but if you really, truly believe - and are willing to put action behind that belief

IMHO I don't think that's what DT was referring to.

DREAMTROVE

Sunday, November 29, 2009 4:06 AM

Nice

I like the tower

Sig

You are correct. I meant that a deity is an idea. It possesses values, ideas, beliefs and motivates people action.

We all accept the existence of religions. Everyone believes that Judaism and Christianity and Islam exist. If I ask someone "Judaism, bring me Judaism, I want to look at it." It'll be difficult. But try some others

"Can I pick up the Democracy around 8:00? I'll swing by your place and we can put it in the trunk."

I'm sorry, but I just filled the trunk with Doubt, I'm not sure Democracy will fit.

Oh, don't worry, we can take Capitalism and put it in the back seat next to Hope and Potential, as long as it doesn't squash Evolution.

Sorry dude, I forgot Evolution and left it at home with Relationships.

Not everything that exists is a tangible object. I never said that Moloch was a tangible object. That statue of an owl is a tangible object.

Yesterday I saw a Bald Eagle. I believe America exists, I just don't know where I put it. I saw this Eagle, and he wasn't America, but he was in America, but he didn't care. He was a bird, hunting for food. But America is a bald Eagle, just like the Iroquois. They exist too. I'm not sure where. There are no Iroquois. There never were. It's a confederacy. It doesn't have a location. There was no Iroquois nation, no land, no document, no chief, it was just an idea, that 5, who are now 6 (for about 500 years or so) decided to believe in. Because they believe in it, it exists. Because it exists, there is an eagle clutching five arrows on the back of the quarter, the US seal and all over the place. Because of that, when I saw this bird, I thought of American, and now I think of the Iroquois, who, like America, don't exist, except through belief. The tribes that believe in them, become them, and may need a health inspector, because I ate at a tribal restaurant quite recently, and the food was good but I got sick.

The food was real, as were the members of the tribe who served it. The tribe itself, I'm not sure, it might be an idea, but it could be a collection of people. Their confederation is an idea. It is a bald eagle. It is not a cow.

Loki is a dragon. Sometimes.

Moloch, in Hebrew, is MLK, which means King, and symbolized King David. So all those Blvds are really called MLK aren't they? Well now that's curious. MLK is not his real name, it's Michael King. "Martin Luther" and MLK to go with "King" is a construct. MLK changed his name when he was inspired to do so by a Lutheran minister while visiting Nazi Germany. Lutheran was the state religion of Reich, in spite of Catholic support. Sure, much of this man's life is fiction, including how he died, but this is freely admitted by everyone, without anyone noting anything the least bit odd about it.

So, sure, I'd at least listen to a conspiracy theory that followed a line where MLK was killed by people who used him, and then used his name, to name things after themselves. Such people might govt., they could be Nazis, or zionists, or all of the above, hell, they even follow Moloch... who would still not be an owl.

Well, that aside, molech is god of the ammonites, a nautilus is an ammonite, but the reason for that is that the nautilus, last of the ammonites who became extinct 65 million years ago, (discover why this is and you will know what really killed the dinosaurs) resembles a curled horn, nautilus does.

The Nautilus resembles the horn of a Ram, and for this reason, he was called an ammonite, as was found in many fossils of the "extinct" order of ammonites, except than the nautilus is still with us. But that aside, it was the ram's horn, which caused them to adopt the name ammonite from the god of the ammonites.

You can watch wikipedia argue the difference between malcolm and molech as possible derivations of different deities, but it's fairly likely that they are the same. Moloch reappears in europe as a bull, indicating perhaps a connection with the golden calf, but this is supposition, just as it was in the 16th century.

Note the Buffy episode

KWICKO

Sunday, November 29, 2009 6:01 AM

Quote:
...he fires a lot, so he's bound to hit something.

And that, in the parlance of a shooter, is NOT what you'd call a "marksman". He's a spray-n-pray shooter. Popping off 200 rounds and randomly hitting the broad side of a barn isn't something you get a "Good shot!" attaboy for. It's garbage, as is PN's posting here. Yes, he OCCASIONALLY, rarely, posts up something that is actually correct, and really happened, but even in that, he has to muck it all up with his gay-nazi-jewish-british-queen-porn-ho bullshit, so it becomes just so much more dross.

But as I've said before, garbage has the right to be garbage. Do I *wish* PN wouldn't use this site as the clearinghouse for all the crazy that's flowing out of his ears? Sure. And I wish it would rain gold coins, too. Neither of those is going to happen, so we're stuck with PN. Might as well have some fun with him and his posts.

Mike

Work is the curse of the Drinking Class.
- Oscar Wilde

GINOBIFFARONI

Sunday, November 29, 2009 7:16 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:
...he fires a lot, so he's bound to hit something.

And that, in the parlance of a shooter, is NOT what you'd call a "marksman". He's a spray-n-pray shooter. Popping off 200 rounds and randomly hitting the broad side of a barn isn't something you get a "Good shot!" attaboy for. It's garbage, as is PN's posting here. Yes, he OCCASIONALLY, rarely, posts up something that is actually correct, and really happened, but even in that, he has to muck it all up with his gay-nazi-jewish-british-queen-porn-ho bullshit, so it becomes just so much more dross.

But as I've said before, garbage has the right to be garbage. Do I *wish* PN wouldn't use this site as the clearinghouse for all the crazy that's flowing out of his ears? Sure. And I wish it would rain gold coins, too. Neither of those is going to happen, so we stuck with PN. Might as well have some fun with him and his posts.

Mike

Work is the curse of the Drinking Class.
- Oscar Wilde

Obviously he learned to shoot in the American military...

spray and pray is what he knows

Either your with the terrorists, or ... your with the terrorists

Lets party like its 1939

OLDENGLANDDRY

Sunday, November 29, 2009 11:01 AM

Bump to prevent dissapearance from the homepage.

PIZMOBEACH

Sunday, November 29, 2009 1:23 PM

I see Participant is quick to voice his/her/it's opinion on being able to post spam to this board, "Tiger Woods...."

It reminds me of the signs of what happens right before a board dies. Seriously, not trying to be melodramatic, but as a board is less taken care and real posting and posters dwindle, spam posts grow and start to out number the real information, real discussion.

There was a FireFlyDay board that went that way. I went back after a year and it was a ghost town, but the spammers were still posting spam posts with their bots. I've seen help desks go the same way too, over run and then abandoned. It gets to be too labor intensive to clean them up.

I hope that's not what we're seeing here.

Mike said: "Do I *wish* PN wouldn't use this site as the clearinghouse for all the crazy that's flowing out of his ears? Sure. And I wish it would rain gold coins, too. Neither of those is going to happen, so we stuck with PN. Might as well have some fun with him and his posts."

So is this becoming HIS board then? The Pirate News Forums?

I think PN has it right: we all need to start more threads ourselves (and ignore his more), and I'm down with a donation to Haken for sure (long over due).

Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com

SIGNYM

Sunday, November 29, 2009 4:19 PM

Dwindling has nothing to do with PN IMHO. There used to be a lot more/ frequent posters here: Auraptor, Finn, Geezer (who posts only occasionally now), Ghoulman, HK, Succatash, SargeX, Drakon, Soupcatcher, Citizen, Phoenixrose... Some of them came here to proselytize, not knowing what a stubborn cussed bunch we are. Others had deeply felt, sincere views for which they couldn't create cogent arguments. Still others, I think, felt that they had simply said everything they wanted to say, and didn't feel like repeating themselves. The initial attraction (Firefly) has faded. And, it's the holidays. Traffic is slow, folks have other things to do.

The reason why PNs posts occupy so much real estate IS bc other peeps are not posting, for various reasons. Boards go through ups and downs. this may be just a slow time, or perhaps it IS winding down for good, but don't put this on PN or Haken. The board has been lovely and the community has moderated itself very well.

DREAMTROVE

Sunday, November 29, 2009 4:34 PM

I gotta 1/2 agree with sig here. I'd disagree with that long a list, but rap, citizen, finn, sure. Some of those others were just "posting" as you are suggesting people do.

I try to refrain unless there's a new topic. I thought the private little war was newsworthy. Afgh thread I just created for Niki to rant, I do hand out soap boxes every once in a while.

This particular thread I'm afraid is essentially a personal attack thread, and I'm going to abandon it.

Mike, sure, he's not Cho, but the guy who fires 1000 times and hits 20 is going to do better than an ace with a single round and six shooter

KWICKO

Sunday, November 29, 2009 4:47 PM

Quote:
Mike, sure, he's not Cho, but the guy who fires 1000 times and hits 20 is going to do better than an ace with a single round and six shooter

See, that's a fundamental point of disagreement between us, it would seem. I'm more for the "one shot, one kill" line of attack, versus the "launch 20 Hellfire missiles and kill over 700 Pakistanis, and call it a win if you get the ONE guy you were trying for for all those months." The latter is our current policy, by the way. If that's what you consider "better", I'd hate to think what "worse" looks like. ;)

The guy who fires 1000 times isn't necessarily doing "better", he's just doing more damage and hurting more people. That a few of them might DESERVE the hurt tends to not really be a great comfort to the family who just lost their 8-year-old son as a consequence.

Ya nam sang? (Y'know what I'm saying?)

Mike

Work is the curse of the Drinking Class.
- Oscar Wilde

PIZMOBEACH

Sunday, November 29, 2009 4:53 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Dwindling has nothing to do with PN IMHO. There used to be a lot more/ frequent posters here: Auraptor, Finn, Geezer (who posts only occasionally now), Ghoulman, HK, Succatash, SargeX, Drakon, Soupcatcher, Citizen, Phoenixrose... Some of them came here to proselytize, not knowing what a stubborn cussed bunch we are. Others had deeply felt, sincere views for which they couldn't create cogent arguments. Still others, I think, felt that they had simply said everything they wanted to say, and didn't feel like repeating themselves. The initial attraction (Firefly) has faded. And, it's the holidays. Traffic is slow, folks have other things to do.

The reason why PNs posts occupy so much real estate IS bc other peeps are not posting, for various reasons. Boards go through ups and downs. this may be just a slow time, or perhaps it IS winding down for good, but don't put this on PN or Haken. The board has been lovely and the community has moderated itself very well.

Wasn't suggesting PN was chasing people away, and I think your 2 points are right: holidays and some people have just moved on. It feels like what it feels like, my references may be different than yours.
Nor am I putting this on Haken - I thought both points were clear ("we should donate" "we should post more").
Haken does have less to take care of here with less traffic and he has other boards that are most likely taking up more of his time.

Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com

KWICKO

Sunday, November 29, 2009 5:29 PM

Don't forget, we're also not in an election cycle at the moment. Elections seem to really amp up the traffic in RWED.

PIZMOBEACH

Sunday, November 29, 2009 5:43 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Don't forget, we're also not in an election cycle at the moment. Elections seem to really amp up the traffic in RWED.

Like Mal, Patience is not one of my strong points.

Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com

KWICKO

Sunday, November 29, 2009 6:01 PM

Thing is, it's not just PN, and it's not just RWED. It's spreading, with crap like KingEicholz and Jameron4eva in the General Discussions area, and all the just pure JUNK they post up in places where it absolutely doesn't belong.

I'd vastly prefer that they put that crap in the RWED area, because as has been posited before, it really IS the "scum filter" of the site, the place that catches all the junk that might otherwise gum up the more Whedon-centric areas of the board.

Mike

Work is the curse of the Drinking Class.
- Oscar Wilde

NIKI2

Sunday, November 29, 2009 8:26 PM

Quote:
It makes me think you are unconcerned with what these people think of your threads.

Of course he is.

Quote:
I care not what insane criminals think about me nor the facts, other than I shoot them when need be in lawful self defense.

says it all.

SIGNYM

Sunday, November 29, 2009 9:21 PM

Quote:
the guy who fires 1000 times and hits 20 is going to do better than an ace with a single round and six shooter

The Kill 'em all and let god sort 'em out? approach to posting? Erm... I value my time, so I value those who ARE capable of sorting wheat from chaff. And I figure "wheat" is an on-target model which predicts accurately. If I just wanted to be bombarded with random facts, 95% of which are made up, I'd just go hit the checkstand at my grocery store!

NIKI2

Monday, November 30, 2009 12:39 AM

Today's threads: 11
Idiotic ones started by PN: 5
Idiotic ones started by Participant: 1

Over half. About normal. It's spamming and wastes our time.

DREAMTROVE

Monday, November 30, 2009 2:20 AM

Mike,

I actually agree with you. I think I said the solution to Iraq was a 50mm one.

I was just arguing that the carpet bomber was effective, and often won the conflict. Check US vs. Japan. We won, not because we were morally superior, but more evil. I think that is a problem we *do* actually need to address.

An evolution away from "more death" towards a new kind of engagement that would replace total destruction as an effective means...

FREMDFIRMA

Monday, November 30, 2009 3:47 AM

Convert their followers, at least enough to bog them down in an internal brawl which you make sure winds up with your people on top and deposing their leader, then co-opt the remaining forces into your own - simple, cheap, effective.

Only problem is our intel goons are both no good at it, and beholden to the mil-industry complex and political factions that actually WANT a bloody crusade, for a multitude of reasons, just like Johnson prolonging vietnam when he knew it was lost as a way to clean the "undesirables" out of "his" society by getting them killed over there.

But just because our supposed professionals are so damned bad at it - don't mean everyone is.

-Frem

There always has to be a price.

KWICKO

Monday, November 30, 2009 3:53 AM

Frem, the only real issue I have with the Johnson analogy is that while he was "cleaning out the undesirables", he was also allowing the alphabet goons to bring in heroin from the area to distribute onto American streets, thereby creating even more "undesirables" - so if he WAS planning on using the war to clear out the scum, then he was also at the same time feeding the meat-grinder by creating addicts who could then be sent into it.

FREMDFIRMA

Monday, November 30, 2009 4:42 AM

There's that, yeah - funny how they're own stupid plans are so short sighted they work at cross purposes, ain't it ?

Another note:

I was thinkin about free speech, and trying to ponder an example, any example, that might incline me to hypocrisy about the idea, just for a reference, you know ?

And I did come up with one.

Those friggin salvation army santas and their hellspawned, nerve racking bells, I completely HATE that, consider it so irritating it borders on auditory terrorism/extortion.

But I grit my teeth, suck it up, and go on, NOT because of my fervor for free speech, but because it seems to make other people happy, and trying to silence them (which you likely COULD manage, given that they're often operating on private property) would take that happiness from those people.

That's what Tolerance really is, folk - putting up with things you'd rather not because you wish other people to be happy.

I figure there's a lesson in there somewhere, other than throttling them with a bell cord would probably upset people.

-Frem

PIRATENEWS

Monday, November 30, 2009 10:30 PM

Haken can just shut down this entire forum, like Alex Jones closed down the PrisonPlanet.com forum and Infowars.com comments today. Some caller to the radio show complained about something, so AJ just shut it down immediately.

http://forum.prisonplanet.com

That's free speech for ya. I'm already banned on that forum last month, for posting links to this forum regarding V.

Infowars.net email was shut down last week by Rovin net for apparently intentional non-payment by Infowars, with millions of emails lost without warning...

Quote:
Twenty-Five Ways To Suppress Truth: The Rules of Disinformation

Includes The 8 Traits of A Disinformationalist

by H. Michael Sweeney
www.MKZine.com
Spring/Summer 2003

5. Sidetrack opponents with name calling and ridicule. This is also known as the primary 'attack the messenger' ploy, though other methods qualify as variants of that approach. Associate opponents with unpopular titles such as 'kooks', 'right-wing', 'liberal', 'left-wing', 'terrorists', 'conspiracy buffs', 'radicals', 'militia', 'racists', 'religious fanatics', 'sexual deviates', and so forth. This makes others shrink from support out of fear of gaining the same label, and you avoid dealing with issues.

6. Hit and Run. In any public forum, make a brief attack of your opponent or the opponent position and then scamper off before an answer can be fielded, or simply ignore any answer. This works extremely well in Internet and letters-to-the-editor environments where a steady stream of new identities can be called upon without having to explain criticism, reasoning -- simply make an accusation or other attack, never discussing issues, and never answering any subsequent response, for that would dignify the opponent's viewpoint.

9. Play Dumb. No matter what evidence or logical argument is offered, avoid discussing issues except with denials they have any credibility, make any sense, provide any proof, contain or make a point, have logic, or support a conclusion. Mix well for maximum effect.

17. Change the subject. Usually in connection with one of the other ploys listed here, find a way to side-track the discussion with abrasive or controversial comments in hopes of turning attention to a new, more manageable topic. This works especially well with companions who can 'argue' with you over the new topic and polarize the discussion arena in order to avoid discussing more key issues.

18. Emotionalize, Antagonize, and Goad Opponents. If you can't do anything else, chide and taunt your opponents and draw them into emotional responses which will tend to make them look foolish and overly motivated, and generally render their material somewhat less coherent. Not only will you avoid discussing the issues in the first instance, but even if their emotional response addresses the issue, you can further avoid the issues by then focusing on how 'sensitive they are to criticism.'

www.whale.to/m/disin.html
www.911review.org/Wiki/RulesOfDisinformation.shtml
www.whale.to/b/sweeney.html

Examples & response:
www.proparanoid.net/truth.htm

Quote:
Military report: secretly recruit or hire trolls, er, bloggers

Noah Shachtman at Danger Room finds a 2006 report written for U.S. Special Operations Command that suggests ways the military should deal with the blogosphere. One suggestion is for the military to hire bloggers to “pass the U.S. message“:

Information strategists can consider clandestinely recruiting or hiring prominent bloggers or other persons of prominence…to pass the U.S. message. … On the other hand, such operations can have a blowback effect, as witnessed by the public reaction following revelations that the U.S. military had paid journalists to publish stories in the Iraqi press under their own names. People do not like to be deceived, and the price of being exposed is lost credibility and trust.

An alternative strategy is to “make” a blog and blogger. The process of boosting the blog to a position of influence could take some time, however, and depending on the p

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME

SIGNYM

Monday, November 30, 2009 10:41 PM

Quote:
But I grit my teeth, suck it up, and go on

Heh. I like to toss in a quarter and when they say "God bless" I rather loudly reply "I'm not religious". Just me having fun!

STORYMARK

Monday, November 30, 2009 11:38 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
Can't say I agree.

In the matter of free speech, what's the difference between making PN go post on an alternate board or forbidding him from posting his crazy on here, versus making Democrat protestors go stand in barbed wire enclosed areas three miles from Bush?

Personally, I don't feel anyone here does, or should have the right to prevent PN from making his insane posts.

By the same token - the rest of us are well within our rights to say "Shut the fuck up!"

Whether he does or not is up to him - but we still get to say it.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

BYTEMITE

Tuesday, December 1, 2009 12:09 AM

Quote:
Personally, I don't feel anyone here does, or should have the right to prevent PN from making his insane posts.

By the same token - the rest of us are well within our rights to say "Shut the fuck up!"

Whether he does or not is up to him - but we still get to say it.

Yeah, true. It just seems like some of these proposed measures to make it so people "don't have to see PN" fall in the category of MAKING him shut up. Not just saying "post/quantity of posts are offensive, please stop overemphasizing opinion/posting in such quantity."

NIKI2

Tuesday, December 1, 2009 1:37 AM

Today's posts: 13
Idiotic posts by PN: 6

About normal.

Per Piz:

Quote:
If everyone stops talking to him the voices get quieter - why does no one else seem to understand this? He posts stupid sh*t and 20 people reply, "that's stupid sh*t!" That's mission accomplished for Inbred Views.

Per OldEngland

Quote:
Unfortunately PN won his little war against us some time ago because although we all know that simply ignoring him would solve the problem we are just not able to resist the temptation to respond and every few weeks or months a whole thread becomes dedicated to discussions about and around PN.This then gives him exactly what he wants - attention, and afirms his belief in himself and the ridiculous things he says and thinks.

About says it all.

DREAMTROVE

Tuesday, December 1, 2009 1:37 AM

John,

I've had this suspicion about AJ for a while, it's why I wasn't so gung ho to jump on his bandwagon. He seems more concerned with his image and having a following than about free speech and the truth. He reminds me a little of Michael Moore, only for the independent anti-establishment set, rather than for the democratic party loyalists.

Ultimately, the only way we will have freedom of information is redundancy. I likes the firefox 5th anniversary page, it was cute. Particularly this image:

DEADLOCKVICTIM

Tuesday, December 1, 2009 1:46 AM

damn, you did it again....

may as well provide PN his very own 'special place' on this site...

DREAMTROVE

Tuesday, December 1, 2009 4:32 PM

DLV

Lost me.

If it's PN overposting, I've suggested to him and will again that posting all of his posts in one post rather than trying to start 10 new threads would make a lot fewer enemies

KWICKO

Tuesday, December 1, 2009 5:42 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
DLV

Lost me.

If it's PN overposting, I've suggested to him and will again that posting all of his posts in one post rather than trying to start 10 new threads would make a lot fewer enemies

I think he was pointing out that starting another whole thread all about PN is really nothing more than just giving MORE publicity to PN, who does indeed thrive on it.

By the way, every time you click on one of the links that PN provides, he gets paid. That's why he's here, and that's why he puts so cussed many links in his every post. He's what he would refer to as a "manho". He's more than willing to prostitute himself, his site, and his "integrity" for some of those federal reserve IOUs that he doesn't believe in.

Mike

Work is the curse of the Drinking Class.
- Oscar Wilde

JAMERON4EVA

Tuesday, December 1, 2009 6:03 PM

I bet he even resembles a "mabnho", but i digress.

"Mom, he has her chip. He has her."
John Connor,"Born To Run", TSCC EP 2x22

STORYMARK

Tuesday, December 1, 2009 6:27 PM

Quote:

Yeah, true. It just seems like some of these proposed measures to make it so people "don't have to see PN" fall in the category of MAKING him shut up. Not just saying "post/quantity of posts are offensive, please stop overemphasizing opinion/posting in such quantity."

The other main message board I frequent has an "ignore" function. Click a tab next to a poster's name, and you won't ever see another of their posts again - just their name, and a tab to open the post should you choose to read it.

I wish more boards had that option.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

NIKI2

Tuesday, December 1, 2009 6:37 PM

Story, it sounds like you were on the same "other board" that I was on, and yes, I miss that feature. Especially if, as Mike says, he gets paid for every link he puts up that we go to! It ensures I won't be going to any, and explains partly the "why" of his volumnious posts!

My guess would be that JV might also have been referring to the fact that every time one of us responds to one of these threads about PN, it brings it to the top yet again, rather than letting it slide out of sight. There have been numerous ones recently, and personally I'd be just as happy not to respond to them and let them disappear. Gonna try not to from now on. That's just a guess tho', and amusing that JV himself just started yet another thread on the subject.

KWICKO

Tuesday, December 1, 2009 7:07 PM

Quote:
Especially if, as Mike says, he gets paid for every link he puts up that we go to! It ensures I won't be going to any, and explains partly the "why" of his volumnious posts!

That's the only reason I can find for WHY he would continue to put up links to articles that either don't say what he claims they say, or that outright REFUTE his claims at every turn. Why else would you purposely make yourself look like an ass, PN, if not purely for money?

Of course, if that's the case, then PN really IS nothing more than a common SPAM-bot. And if that's the case, then should he be banned?

For the record, I still vote "No" on banning. PN, whatever his failings (and they are legion), is still a human being, still typing in the words and inserting the links himself. If he's nothing more than a SPAM-bot, he's at least a human SPAM-bot, and so is doing a job. Heck, fella's gotta earn a living somehow, and though he hates "the gays", PN himself isn't above doing a little sucking for the long green.

It's been said that PN has his own agenda. I think his agenda is to get paid, and nothing more.

Mike

Work is the curse of the Drinking Class.
- Oscar Wilde

DEADLOCKVICTIM

Tuesday, December 1, 2009 7:10 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
I think he was pointing out that starting another whole thread all about PN is really nothing more than just giving MORE publicity...

bingo -

sorry Dream, i was not being clear - and not referring to anything you had posted...

JONGSSTRAW

Tuesday, December 1, 2009 8:46 PM

Best thing about PN's posts is that they are without political bias. He blasts Dems & Repubs the same, and I often times find that refreshing in this place. I also enjoy some of his pictures and artwork. My personal favorite is seing Sean Hannity in his rice-paddy hat. That just crack me up for some reason. Keep 'em comin' PN, just maybe not so many at once.

DREAMTROVE

Wednesday, December 2, 2009 12:43 AM

Mike

Interesting theory.

I think in the new economy money is meaningless. It is perhaps the traffic itself that he is after.