Dumbest thing in FF/Serenity...

POSTED BY: chrisisall
UPDATED: Monday, June 2, 2008 18:08
VIEWED: 23001
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CHRISISALL

Wednesday, May 14, 2008 9:34 PM

I'd say it was the idea that Inara could ever stand a guy like Atherton Wing.

Wow, hard to choose; the whole entity was so near-perfect IMO.

Over-analyzing Chrisisall

ZEEK

Wednesday, May 14, 2008 9:45 PM

"Capital City"

I hate when shows do that. Who cares if they said you're the finest doctor in all of "schumtzville"? We'd still assume it's a pretty good complement. If the alliance was really that lame with naming conventions then what's with "Ariel" and "Miranda". Why not "Planet #213"? Pssh Capital City. So dumb. It annoys me every time I watch Safe.

SUCCATASH

Thursday, May 15, 2008 12:45 AM

"We're in trouble! We better call Mr. Universe!"

and also

"I aim to misbehave."

Mal, you're so naughty! That is such tough talk for a hardened soldier.

"Gott kann dich nicht vor mir beschuetzen, weil ich nicht boese bin."

STAPLES

Thursday, May 15, 2008 1:16 AM

I agree - where did Mr. Universe come from?! He'd never been in any of the episodes...WTF?!

CHRISISALL

Thursday, May 15, 2008 1:28 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Staples:
I agree - where did Mr. Universe come from?! He'd never been in any of the episodes...WTF?!

He was more or less a humorous myth that no one took very seriously back in FF time, but after an incident where they discovered his true nature (not shown) they realized what help he could be in future, and made avail of it in Serenity.

Or so it's been said.

Bymeisall

MRUNIVERSE1

Thursday, May 15, 2008 1:43 AM

I think Mr. Universe was an awesome addition to the movie.

"Would be you get your most poetical about your pecker"

BLACKSHAMROCK5

Thursday, May 15, 2008 3:15 AM

"Lets moon 'em!" I love this show but...*shudder*

i guess there's no way to make love not break our hearts

Shamrock
www.myspace.com/clover718

SERGEANTX

Thursday, May 15, 2008 4:31 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Succatash:
"We're in trouble! We better call Mr. Universe!"

That one gets my vote. I cringed inside.

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

SPACEANJL

Thursday, May 15, 2008 1:31 PM

Dumbest thing overall - probably Jayne! (But we love the big man-ape-thing)

Mr Universe as a recurring figure could have worked, if he was a little less omnipotent, part of some bigger network. (But David K is just a star, anyhow - a couple of scenes, and you just knew what this guy was like...question, though - did this predate the start of Numb3rs? *muppet voiceover* Epps in space...'cos Peter McNichol would be a hoot in FF)

I have a bit of problem with the whole BDM, really, 'cos I would love to have seen the storyline played out over time with subtlety, instead of crammed into crude money shots. And a tech issue - if the retinal scan screens are in most places, then there is no place to hide once you get on the grid, and I assume the Cortex to be no different. Basically, there's no explanation for how a system that big and obviously well monitored could let folks disappear and appear at will. Unless that explains Simon's cool sunglasses in 'FF:Serenity 1'

DUG

Thursday, May 15, 2008 1:51 PM

There's something in Firefly that's been bugging me recently. Take this quote, for instance:

"I wanted to do a show about people who are not 'super,' just working-class people, the people history steps on." - Joss Whedon on Firefly

There are other quotes like that as well. Hearing that quote, how the h311 do I fit River Tam into this 'verse? Even if I think of Serenity as changed due to being a movie, the series was still headed in a decidedly non-ordinary person direction for her.

SPACEANJL

Thursday, May 15, 2008 2:01 PM

Everyone else was the ordinary, and it was their response to being swept up with the non-ordinary that was the story.

Again, it would have been better to see it over time, because the big 'superhero powers' mcguffin was a bit crude. But you really have a small ship, with a couple of folk on it who have some larger history (Mal and Zoe have records as 'war criminals'), but basically just another small transport concern with shady contacts. The big story is that they just happened to be parked up where a couple of fugutives needed a ride.

The idea really begins to unravel when folk start imputing big secrets to Book and Inara as well. That's where the storylines lose all credibility.

KNIGHTREYEDER

Thursday, May 15, 2008 4:19 PM

Ok, here goes.

Mr. Universe worked fine. Nothing wrong with introducing newness in Serenity, hell, how can we know everything when there were only 13 episodes and a pilot? Plenty of room for the unusual.

The real thing that bugs me doesn't really make Firefly flawed, it's an inconsistency with Serenity. Unless I understand it wrong, Simon paid people to smuggle Summer out of where she was held (in cryo, remember?) and sent her to him. In Serenity he did it himself. That has always bugged me.

While we're on about things that are annoying. I love Firefly but the BDH thing, how Mal is supposed to have this big serious warrior rep (i.e. I start fighting a war, I guarantee you'll see something new) amongst other occurances, and yet he's this corny boyish hotdog in Zoe's battle recollections in The Message. Doesn't go with the rep very well and just made for a dorky humor moment. I'd have much preferred Mal's rep was supported with stuff like how bad he was in battle like when he manned the twin 50's in the pilot, or how 'maybe' he killed a whole squad hand to hand or something similar.

I need to rant once more. Inara's crying in Heart of Gold, what about that crap? Morena is a very capable actress and a very subtle quiet scene in her room with a dejected look and a single tear would have impressed me a lot more than that little girl moment that completely shoots down her companion training and experience. That's not a dig at her character or her acting, it's the writing I'm displeased with.

Having said all this stuff, I find way more flaws with other movies and series I watch, Firefly still has my vote as the GREATEST ever. Just needed that to go on record so as not to be misunderstood.

_________________________________________________
Mal's expression in the scrapyard when he first see's Serenity says it all.

DAVESHAYNE

Thursday, May 15, 2008 4:53 PM

In character: Not telling Tracy the plan. Seriously all Mal has to do is say, "We're not turning you over to the Feds" and Wash doesn't get shot, Kaylee doesn't get taken hostage, and Tracy gets a chance to maybe learn a lesson and move on.

Out of character: The trash bin from Trash. The way they present it it looks like they send this huge dumpster off to the landfill every time somebody drops a half empty bag of crap down the chute. And why would the guidance be in the bin instead of the drone?

David

'Geeks can't admit that anything worthwhile was invented before 1981. Soon, "making cocoa" will be called "milk hacking."' - Lore Sjoberg

http://xkcd.com/386/

I has myspace - http://www.myspace.com/daveshayneforpresident

JONGSSTRAW

Thursday, May 15, 2008 5:03 PM

Lot's of dumb things in Firefly verse...not that any of them bother me enough to not love the show, but just some dumb things :

ARIEL :
Mal & Zoe attempt to use their forged ID cards with their thumbprints to gain access to the store room with all the drugs...but they don't work. So Mal takes the unconscious doctor's ID card, and with his own thumb gets in. I thought they should have dragged the doc to the sensor and used his thumb.

There just happened to be an un-attended and charged de-fib machine handy for Zoe to zap the obnoxious doc with? How convenient!

Hands of Blue guys kill an entire squad of Allliance officers...and there is no problem with that?

SAFE :

Mrs. Tam's staunch refusal to even accept the possibilty of her daughter being in danger & her naive assurrance that everything will be alright in a few months is a bit unbelieveable for me.

BDM :

Mal's shooting of the Alliance pilot who was trying to surrender was nothing but murder...didn't sit well with me...yes he killed Book and all the others, but he was trying to surrender.

How could the Operative have known all of the BDH's hideouts in such a short time? Seems a bit hard to believe for me.

Mr Universe : first wave ..ok I believe....second wave, when he was luring Mal in for the Operative I don't believe..he seemed just a bit too eager to please, and Mal's instict would have smelled it.

SHINDIG :
Boy that Mal & Kaylee can sure get around quickly! In the time Inara was dancing with Wing...Mal took Kaylee to get that dress, got a "suit" himself, dressed, shaved, showered(?) and then arrived in the ballroom while Inara was still dancing.

The young guy who was standing there when Kaylee came up and said " Don't you just love them?....bits of wrapping paper...." I thought she was sweet & charming...but that twit said nothing, just bowed and walked away...how rude! Like he had something better than Kaylee waiting for him? He was alone throughout the entire scene...maybe he was checking out the guys.

JAYNESTOWN :

Magistrate Higgins : now that's one screwed-up-in-the-head dude!
Was upset that he couldn't watch his son get laid? Yikes!

Stitch should have shot him and the prod foreman right on the spot the minute he got the shotgun.
I would have if someone had kept me in a 5X5 box for 4 years.

NBZ

Thursday, May 15, 2008 5:56 PM

Quote:
Mr Universe : first wave ..ok I believe....second wave, when he was luring Mal in for the Operative I don't believe..he seemed just a bit too eager to please, and Mal's instinct would have smelled it.

He did. Hence he got the reavers involved. (Let's face it, the whole scenario was contrived - Joss wanted a big space battle and the film needed a conclusion. Mr Universe popped out of nowhere. I still enjoyed it very much.)

Most of the things on that list, I actually liked. Thought they added character (except for timing stuff). They did not seem "dumb", overlooked to me, rather well thought out.

As for shindig, I guess there is probably some sort of servant's etiquette to follow. (you hear of celeb's who do not want the paid labour to be in the same room as them... and these are supposed to be the super rich.)

(I liked Mal murdering that soldier - it showed that Mal is not a "hero". He does questionable things, has questionable morals. When he gets too much into a situation he wants to do the right thing, but I would suggest that is not the norm.)

BIGDAMNNOBODY

Thursday, May 15, 2008 8:29 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Stitch should have shot him and the prod foreman right on the spot the minute he got the shotgun.
I would have if someone had kept me in a 5X5 box for 4 years.

Yeah, that has always struck me as kinda odd as well.

BIGRICHARD

Thursday, May 15, 2008 11:31 PM

ARIEL:
Always confused me as well, though I guess it could be explained by saying that the thumbprint is simply logged, not some form of login? Though then, wouldn't Mal's thumbprints be on the system as a Thief/War Criminal?
Perhaps his thumbprint was put in the system with the ID card, but the ID card wasn't given adequate access, and thus he used the doctors, but his own thumbprint worked.

As for the HOB guys, I assumed they were some high level of Government/Blue Sun, and so they had all sorts of clearance, so that never bothered me so much.

SAFE :

River was away at a special school for the gifted, run by a government Mrs. Tam probably voted for, why would she have any reason to believe River was in trouble? She simply chose to believe in her government.

BDM :

I agree with the fact that Mal is a flawed character, and is meant to be questionable. He probably believes that the pilot isn't sorry for what he did, and so shouldn't be given another chance. Let's not forget that Mal saw some terrible things in the war, so he probably has little sympathy for anyone in the Alliance.

SHINDIG :
Pretty sure that was just manipulated timing, I don't think Mal ACTUALLY told Kaylee about it all at the same time Inara was dancing. Just because it cuts to that scene while they dance, it doesn't mean it's simultaneous, just means that you find out that Mal and Kaylee are going to the ball, when you're meant to.

That would be because he's a servant, and most of the people at the party would expect him not to talk to them, and would probably be angry and cruel if he did. Just think of those girls that Kaylee started talking to, imagine if the SERVANT talked to them.

JAYNESTOWN :

Pretty sure Magistrate Higgins was just making sure his son "turned into a man", he didn't want to watch, he just wanted to make sure that Inara just skipped all her Companion stuff and slept with him. Basically, he wanted a prostitute rather than a Companion.

yeah, i have too much time on my hands clearly, and most people probably thought some of that was obvious, but I'm at uni and I'm kinda bored, so yeah....

"Never f$@% with a browncoat dude...." - Kevin Smith

CHARLIEBZ

Thursday, May 15, 2008 11:46 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by BigRichard:

That would be because he's a servant, and most of the people at the party would expect him not to talk to them, and would probably be angry and cruel if he did. Just think of those girls that Kaylee started talking to, imagine if the SERVANT talked to them.

I got the impression that he took one look at Kaylee's store bought dress and skeedadled. He struck me as slightly more polite than the girls in that he didn't verbally insult her but acted gentlemanly by bowing and walking away.

It could also be that Persephone society discourages talking to someone you haven't been properly introduced to. This would be keeping in tune with the whole Jane Austen influence.

RIVERLOVE

Friday, May 16, 2008 12:26 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by BigRichard:
ARIEL:
Always confused me as well, though I guess it could be explained by saying that the thumbprint is simply logged, not some form of login? Though then, wouldn't Mal's thumbprints be on the system as a Thief/War Criminal?
Perhaps his thumbprint was put in the system with the ID card, but the ID card wasn't given adequate access, and thus he used the doctors, but his own thumbprint worked.

As for the HOB guys, I assumed they were some high level of Government/Blue Sun, and so they had all sorts of clearance, so that never bothered me so much.

SAFE :

River was away at a special school for the gifted, run by a government Mrs. Tam probably voted for, why would she have any reason to believe River was in trouble? She simply chose to believe in her government.

BDM :

I agree with the fact that Mal is a flawed character, and is meant to be questionable. He probably believes that the pilot isn't sorry for what he did, and so shouldn't be given another chance. Let's not forget that Mal saw some terrible things in the war, so he probably has little sympathy for anyone in the Alliance.

SHINDIG :
Pretty sure that was just manipulated timing, I don't think Mal ACTUALLY told Kaylee about it all at the same time Inara was dancing. Just because it cuts to that scene while they dance, it doesn't mean it's simultaneous, just means that you find out that Mal and Kaylee are going to the ball, when you're meant to.

That would be because he's a servant, and most of the people at the party would expect him not to talk to them, and would probably be angry and cruel if he did. Just think of those girls that Kaylee started talking to, imagine if the SERVANT talked to them.

JAYNESTOWN :

Pretty sure Magistrate Higgins was just making sure his son "turned into a man", he didn't want to watch, he just wanted to make sure that Inara just skipped all her Companion stuff and slept with him. Basically, he wanted a prostitute rather than a Companion.

yeah, i have too much time on my hands clearly, and most people probably thought some of that was obvious, but I'm at uni and I'm kinda bored, so yeah....

"Never f$@% with a browncoat dude...." - Kevin Smith

Your explanations are terrific! I also think the comments that brought them forth, and the thread in general are great.

SPINEBITE

Friday, May 16, 2008 12:55 AM

The only thing that ever really bothered me was that Stitch had a loaded shotgun, and yet he didn't shoot the people who kept him in tiny box for years on end(Magistrate Higgins and the Foreman).

"Pain is scary."

CHRISISALL

Friday, May 16, 2008 1:18 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Riverlove:

Your explanations are terrific!

I second that! This BigRichard is my kind of scum; fearless and inventive

!

Chrisisall

DANCINGOTTER

Friday, May 16, 2008 1:21 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by spinebite:
The only thing that ever really bothered me was that Stitch had a loaded shotgun, and yet he didn't shoot the people who kept him in tiny box for years on end(Magistrate Higgins and the Foreman).

"Pain is scary."

The problem that I had with the scene is that after years in a small box, Stitch was able to stand, walk and within a couple of hours, go toe to toe with a man who works out regularly. His muscles should have been so atrophied that every movement should have been horrifically painful.

~Otter

SPINEBITE

Friday, May 16, 2008 1:23 AM

Quote:
DancingOtter:The problem that I had with the scene is that after years in a small box, Stitch was able to stand, walk and within a couple of hours, go toe to toe with a man who works out regularly. His muscles should have been so atrophied that every movement should have been horrifically painful.

Indeed.

"Pain is scary."

DANCINGOTTER

Friday, May 16, 2008 1:27 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Knightreyeder:

The real thing that bugs me doesn't really make Firefly flawed, it's an inconsistency with Serenity. Unless I understand it wrong, Simon paid people to smuggle Summer out of where she was held (in cryo, remember?) and sent her to him. In Serenity he did it himself. That has always bugged me.

While we're on about things that are annoying. I love Firefly but the BDH thing, how Mal is supposed to have this big serious warrior rep (i.e. I start fighting a war, I guarantee you'll see something new) amongst other occurances, and yet he's this corny boyish hotdog in Zoe's battle recollections in The Message. Doesn't go with the rep very well and just made for a dorky humor moment. I'd have much preferred Mal's rep was supported with stuff like how bad he was in battle like when he manned the twin 50's in the pilot, or how 'maybe' he killed a whole squad hand to hand or something similar.

I had a problem with the change in story with River's breakout and it broke the wall for me briefly.

As for Mal's behavior in the recollection in the Message, I assumed it was fairly early in the war, before he became so hard. I also didn't think it was too terribly inconsistent with his behavior in the beginning of the pilot episode.

~Otter

BIGRICHARD

Saturday, May 17, 2008 10:13 AM

Well glad my comments were appreciated.

"While we're on about things that are annoying. I love Firefly but the BDH thing, how Mal is supposed to have this big serious warrior rep (i.e. I start fighting a war, I guarantee you'll see something new) amongst other occurances, and yet he's this corny boyish hotdog in Zoe's battle recollections in The Message. Doesn't go with the rep very well and just made for a dorky humor moment. I'd have much preferred Mal's rep was supported with stuff like how bad he was in battle like when he manned the twin 50's in the pilot, or how 'maybe' he killed a whole squad hand to hand or something similar. "

I think that Mal's character was a hard leader in the war, he was a hero, but I think the fact that he was quite boyish doesn't change this. The fact that he keeps making little jokes, in my opinion, is his way of being brave. These little jokes make others believe that he's not at all worried, and it's not as bad as they're thinking. Mal keeps the morale in his troops up this way....not to mention that, like DancingOtter said, it could be different points in the war, The Message flashbacks possibly being set near the start of the war, thus making Mal less 'hardened'. Perhaps in the beginning, the war was more of a game to Mal, and he just wanted to see some action, and then by the end of the war, he realised what he was fighting for.
Plus I'm sick of those "he killed a whole squad with nothing but his hands" things, as it's just so unlikely, and doesn't go well with Joss' vision of following 'ordinary people' in his 'verse. Mal isn't supposed to be particularly special, he isn't supposed to be some super hardened ex-soldier with nothing but a grudge and a gun, taking down everyone who stands in his way. This isn't The Punisher in space.

and now i'm just rambling again, so i'll shhhh...

"Never f$@% with a browncoat dude...." - Kevin Smith

KNIGHTREYEDER

Saturday, May 17, 2008 2:05 PM

I will accept your take on Mal's character and understand it was the intent of the writing. I guess my previous comments were, well, just my comments.

How about this one then? In Bushwhacked, why did the kid turn into a Reaver? Do they carry around concentrated portable cans of the PAX to give to someone so they have a mate left on board when they come back or in case they missed someone in hiding? Pretty sure the animals don't even know why they're Reavers. I'm not buying that the only way to deal with a thing is to become it. We know what makes the Reavers and it ain't purely psychological.

_________________________________________________
Mal's expression in the scrapyard when he first see's Serenity says it all.

LEOPARDFLAN

Saturday, May 17, 2008 4:46 PM

My question is, if Reavers are such raging animals, how the heck are they able to fly space ships? And how would they be noticing "That dude's a fellow Reaver, he don't get ate", if they're crazy?

#~%~~*~~~&~~~*~~%~#\/#~%~~*~~~&~~~*~~%~#

\~~~*~~^~~*~~~/$$\~~~*~~^~~*~~~/
98% of teens have smoked pot, if you are one of the 2% that haven't, copy this into your signature.

DASHILE

Saturday, May 17, 2008 5:16 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Knightreyeder:

In Bushwhacked, why did the kid turn into a Reaver? Do they carry around concentrated portable cans of the PAX to give to someone so they have a mate left on board when they come back or in case they missed someone in hiding?

I don't think they meant he literally became a Reaver. He saw the horror that was done by the Reavers, and the only way to survive was to mimic, to "become it" as far as he could: cutting flesh, tongue, violence, and so on. He did not become a true Reaver, he just made himself as close to one as he could, in appearance and action.

COSMICFUGITIVE

Saturday, May 17, 2008 5:24 PM

The flashing 'low battery' sign on Rance Burgess' laser gun, from 'Heart Of Gold', was quite tacky.

---

KNIGHTREYEDER

Sunday, May 18, 2008 8:50 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by CosmicFugitive:
The flashing 'low battery' sign on Rance Burgess' laser gun, from 'Heart Of Gold', was quite tacky.

---

You have a point and with all those upgrades to that weapon how did he manage to miss Mal on a horse?

Not that I wanted our BDH hit mind you.....

_________________________________________________
Mal's expression in the scrapyard when he first see's Serenity says it all.

AURAPTOR

Sunday, May 18, 2008 12:10 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Zeek:
"Capital City"

I hate when shows do that. Who cares if they said you're the finest doctor in all of "schumtzville"? We'd still assume it's a pretty good complement. If the alliance was really that lame with naming conventions then what's with "Ariel" and "Miranda". Why not "Planet #213"? Pssh Capital City. So dumb. It annoys me every time I watch Safe.

Capital CIty reminds me of The Simspsons.

For me, things which stand out the most...

- Heart of Gold : The 'chase' scene where Mal , on a horse, tracks down Rance in his hover craft, jumps off the horse and lands on the hover craft, to punch Rance unconscious. Riiiiight.

- Jaynestown: The 'landing pad' was nothing more than a dirt field. Why not spend a few hundred $$$ to make it LOOK like there's some proper pad. It'd make the whole 'land lock' scenario easier to take....I mean, wtf is keeping them from taking off in the first place ? The weeds ?

- Our Mrs Reynolds: You'll note early in the show when Serenity takes off, there's all sorts of vegetation around the ship, but when the shot pulls back , the ship is out in a desert, with no sign of plants or settlement to be seen.

- The Message: The afore mentioned part about simply TELLING Tracy about the plan. 'nuff said.

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

PLATONIST

Sunday, May 18, 2008 5:12 PM

Heart of Gold...dumb, dumb

Rance owns a moon and has access to instant DNA testing, but he can't find a surrogate willing to carry his kid, and because of this he gets his head blown off by a reluctant whore that doesn't use birth control?

dumb

SHAMELESS

Monday, May 19, 2008 9:52 AM

Well, be fair - "The United States of America" isn't a very interesting name. Or half the names of towns. A lot of towns don't get named because the name sounds cool and interesting and different - it often has something to do with a characteristic of the town. Port Orchard - it has a port and it has orchards. Capital City - it's the capital and it's a city. But I think with planets... getting a new planet would be such a big deal in comparison to a new town (which usually starts as... a house - unless it's an organized effort, "Hey, let's randomly start a town! All together now!") that there would be a lot more interest in the name.

------------------------------------------
RPG launcher bought in third world country illegally - $10
Landmines - $50 per
Attack/track dogs bred 1st class - $250-500 per
Highpowered assault rifles - $600 per
The look on your face when I show up on your doorstep with a bigfoot - ... Priceless

"You gotta love that the first pirated HD DVD is the one about space pirates who broadcast a video that the government wants to keep secret.

Can't stop the signal."
-reavers_ate_my_dvd

LWAVES

Monday, May 19, 2008 6:49 PM

I have no problem with the character of Mr. Universe but that name just sucks.

This would be followed by the 'low battery' light on the the laser in HOG, as mentioned above.

"I don't believe in suicide, but if you'd like to try it it might cheer me up to watch."

SIRTHOMAS

Tuesday, May 20, 2008 3:09 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by dug:
There's something in Firefly that's been bugging me recently. Take this quote, for instance:

"I wanted to do a show about people who are not 'super,' just working-class people, the people history steps on." - Joss Whedon on Firefly

There are other quotes like that as well. Hearing that quote, how the h311 do I fit River Tam into this 'verse? Even if I think of Serenity as changed due to being a movie, the series was still headed in a decidedly non-ordinary person direction for her.

River and Simon are definitely a big part of the story, but I think what Joss meant by what he was saying was kind of a way to show that the real crew are Mal, Zoe, Inara, Jayne, Wash, and Kaylee.

Even though the episode one starts with all the characters. This is the way I see it, and you might disagree but that’s cool cause my thought is just that, Mal and the others that I wrote out just above have obviously been together for awhile. The episode “Out of Gas” shows Mal and Zoe picking out the ship and then filling all the spots of the crew. I see it as the main crew here is who the story really is about, and River, Simon, and Book are things that have come into the “working class peoples” lives. If it was for these three, mainly Simon and River, then their lives would be just the same old thing every day you know.

Again just kinda how I can see what Joss was getting at. I think its Serenity that really focuses more on the whole River thing, but Joss was having to tell the whole story, instead of getting years to tell it.

Sua Sponte

ANOTHERSKY

Tuesday, May 20, 2008 4:59 AM

I'm going to keep this to "dumb" things, not things-I-wish-didn't-happen, or things-concievably-in-character-once-in-a-blue-moon, or "minor plot holes"---mostly "improbabilities".
This is the really "ouch" stuff.

That said:
SERENITY

1.) Kaylee's "nethers" line---I think Mal voiced everyone's opinion.

2.) The Operative wimping out at the end, in combination with Mal's "what a whiner" line. Uh, like that was epic. Yes the show/movie is self-depricating, but that was just a major downer for plotline. Like Joss said, movies have to be different. It wasn't like the guy was some Rim baron they just owned, this was the destroy-the-world-as-we-know-it Operative.
If you're gonna raise the tough questions, be ready to have the guts to go there.

3.)Boom-flash effects vs. quality storytelling---NOT tapping Book, Wash and Inara, the three least explored characters, but killing off two of them instead.

FIREFLY

1.) Yes, we've all commented on the "The Message" stupid pills apparently imbibed by the whole crew when they make port and pick up Tracey. That was a major plot hole--we needed another restraint as to why they couldn't tell Tracey.

I'll think of more later and be annoyed that I didn't post...

Going for a ride.

Another Sky

ANOTHERSKY

Tuesday, May 20, 2008 5:02 AM

Yeah, that was a little harsh, maybe not as polite as I'd like. Things have flaws. Hope nobody took it personal or nothin'. Cause I've got Vera.
:)

Going for a ride.

AnotherSky

KNIGHTREYEDER

Tuesday, May 20, 2008 9:45 AM

Quote:

That said:
SERENITY

1.) Kaylee's "nethers" line---I think Mal voiced everyone's opinion.

Another Sky

Yeah but Jaynes response deadened the awkwardness pretty well I thought.....He is such a bummer sometimes and yet the real comic relief at others. I think I laugh at him more than I did at Wash.....

_________________________________________________
Mal's expression in the scrapyard when he first see's Serenity says it all.

MALACHITE

Tuesday, May 20, 2008 1:34 PM

One of the dumbest things to me is the line, "We're humped", which is not used once, but three times in the pilot. Makes me cringe every time I hear it, especially when I'm showing the pilot to someone who has never seen it before and they go, "This is the intelligent, witty, creative dialogue you were referring to??" :)

CHRISISALL

Tuesday, May 20, 2008 2:48 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AnotherSky:

Kaylee's "nethers" line---I think Mal voiced everyone's opinion.

Really? I thought Jayne voiced everyone's opinion....

Never kiss 'em on the mouth Chrisisall

WASHNWEAR

Tuesday, May 20, 2008 5:53 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by daveshayne:
In character: Not telling Tracy the plan. Seriously all Mal has to do is say, "We're not turning you over to the Feds" and Wash doesn't get shot, Kaylee doesn't get taken hostage, and Tracy gets a chance to maybe learn a lesson and move on.

YES - that's bugged me (and apparently a few others in this thread) since I first saw The Message. Thought it was just me...

That, and the climax of War Stories, where Mal and Torture-Guy are fighting on the balcony-type thing and Zoe and Co. burst in, Zoe saying that Mal must kick Torture-Guy's butt hisownself, etc. Hate that whole scene - it's a disservice to what is otherwise one of my favorite episodes.

It was like nit-picking for the soul when we got here!

WASHNWEAR

Tuesday, May 20, 2008 5:57 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:

Never kiss 'em on the mouth

Chrisisall

Yeah, about that...did Jayne ever elaborate on exactly where he does kiss 'em?

It was raisin' more questions than it answered when we got here!

DAVESHAYNE

Tuesday, May 20, 2008 6:09 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by WASHnwear:
Quote:
Originally posted by daveshayne:
In character: Not telling Tracy the plan. Seriously all Mal has to do is say, "We're not turning you over to the Feds" and Wash doesn't get shot, Kaylee doesn't get taken hostage, and Tracy gets a chance to maybe learn a lesson and move on.

YES - that's bugged me (and apparently a few others in this thread) since I first saw The Message. Thought it was just me...

The best light I can put on it is maybe they were doing some deep deconstruction thing with the usual trope of not telling the audience important parts of the plan to create drama (as seen in pretty much every episode of Mission Impossible and Inara's role in the caper from Trash) Kind of like, "See this is what happens if you don't spell out the plan in real life." It still seems mighty week.

Quote:
That, and the climax of War Stories, where Mal and Torture-Guy are fighting on the balcony-type thing and Zoe and Co. burst in, Zoe saying that Mal must kick Torture-Guy's butt hisownself, etc. Hate that whole scene - it's a disservice to what is otherwise one of my favorite episodes.

On this I disagree. That was just a wonderful way of showing how Mal differs from the usual Western Hero stereotype. Plus it was funny.

David

'Geeks can't admit that anything worthwhile was invented before 1981. Soon, "making cocoa" will be called "milk hacking."' - Lore Sjoberg

http://xkcd.com/386/

I has myspace - http://www.myspace.com/daveshayneforpresident

CHRISISALL

Tuesday, May 20, 2008 6:20 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by daveshayne:
That was just a wonderful way of showing how Mal differs from the usual Western Hero stereotype. Plus it was funny.

That was one of the greatest moments in the series IMO.

Chrisisall

MAL4PREZ

Tuesday, May 20, 2008 6:23 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by daveshayne:
In character: Not telling Tracy the plan. Seriously all Mal has to do is say, "We're not turning you over to the Feds" and Wash doesn't get shot, Kaylee doesn't get taken hostage, and Tracy gets a chance to maybe learn a lesson and move on.

Did you notice that Mal did the same with Simon in Bushwhacked? Told him to go get his sister without explaining that he'd be hiding them, not handing them over. Mal likes to test people. Simon passed, Tracy didn't. Too bad the test almost killed Kaylee - Mal's plans aren't so bright sometimes.

I'm not disagreeing though - the whole plot for The Message was swiss cheese. What was supposed to happen when Tracy delivered his fancy organs? Would his own be waiting in a cooler?

I like the character Mr. Universe, but the first mention of him is surely stupid as can be. "Let's call Mr. Universe!" If only the name was different, or the line was delivered in a yes, this is silly way, the way that Joss often made fun of thin plot points on Buffy and Angel. It's just not possible to take that seriously.

Low battery in HoG?

That whole bit of Mal chasing whatshisbutt down is just bad.

End of War Stories balcony exchange? Lacking, but not straight up dumb imho. Seems more like the dialogue or the timing or something could be adjusted and it'd work.

Now, Zoe doing her somersault and standing there in the line of fire for three hours while she draws her gun is dumb dumb dumb! I cringe every time.

-----------------------------------------------
hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left

WASHNWEAR

Tuesday, May 20, 2008 6:34 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:
Originally posted by daveshayne:
That was just a wonderful way of showing how Mal differs from the usual Western Hero stereotype. Plus it was funny.

That was one of the greatest moments in the series IMO.

Chrisisall

Well shoot, DS and CIA, maybe I just need to lighten up...which has been suggested before in other connections. It's just always struck me as a contrivedly goofy moment at the end of what was decidedly not (to me) a goofy episode. I was (and still am) in late adolescence before I forgave the old Batman TV series for it's campy-but-clever treatment of the Caped Crusader...

These fictional worlds and characters are SERIOUS STUFF, dammit (grr...snort...#%!*$)

It was damaging my willing suspension of disbelief when we got here!

CHARLIEBZ

Tuesday, May 20, 2008 8:36 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by mal4prez:
What was supposed to happen when Tracy delivered his fancy organs? Would his own be waiting in a cooler?

Thank you! This part never made any sense to me. They scooped out his insides? Won't he need those sometime? Where are they?

The low battery on the laser gun doesn't bother me. I view that as illustrating the problems of relying too much on technology. You just can't beat good old fashioned bullet-spewing guns. Or, maybe a slight dig at Star Trek?

What did bother me in HoG is when Mal knocked Burgess off the speeder thingy. Wasn't there a baby in there?

LEOPARDFLAN

Tuesday, May 20, 2008 8:38 PM

No, the whore had her baby with her (I think)

#~%~~*~~~&~~~*~~%~#\/#~%~~*~~~&~~~*~~%~#

\~~~*~~^~~*~~~/$$\~~~*~~^~~*~~~/
98% of teens have smoked pot, if you are one of the 2% that haven't, copy this into your signature.

DAVESHAYNE

Wednesday, May 21, 2008 12:00 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by mal4prez:
Did you notice that Mal did the same with Simon in Bushwhacked? Told him to go get his sister without explaining that he'd be hiding them, not handing them over.

Yes, though, of course, he explained the plan to Simon during the commercial break so it's more a case of hiding the plan from the audience. I didn't see it as a test particularly.

David

'Geeks can't admit that anything worthwhile was invented before 1981. Soon, "making cocoa" will be called "milk hacking."' - Lore Sjoberg

http://xkcd.com/386/

I has myspace - http://www.myspace.com/daveshayneforpresident

DANCINGOTTER

Wednesday, May 21, 2008 12:56 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by mal4prez:

I'm not disagreeing though - the whole plot for The Message was swiss cheese. What was supposed to happen when Tracy delivered his fancy organs? Would his own be waiting in a cooler?

-----------------------------------------------
hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left

Thank you! That bugged me too! Why would you steal from and run away from the people who have your innards? What was he going to do when he got to the black market dealers?

~Otter

MAL4PREZ

Wednesday, May 21, 2008 2:30 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by daveshayne:
Quote:
Originally posted by mal4prez:
Did you notice that Mal did the same with Simon in Bushwhacked? Told him to go get his sister without explaining that he'd be hiding them, not handing them over.

Yes, though, of course, he explained the plan to Simon during the commercial break so it's more a case of hiding the plan from the audience. I didn't see it as a test particularly.

Yeah, that commercial break trickiness... but here's the thing: Mal says go get your sister, Simon looks doubtful, then Book says: just do it son. Sure, at that point Mal might have explained, but I never imagine it that way. Mal's got that just do it cause I'm the captain and I said so dammit look and Simon's got that I don't like this but I guess I'm going to do it anyway look.

Maybe I'm just making that up. OK, I'm totally making it up, but I'd bet money that Mal didn't explain till Simon went and got River.

-----------------------------------------------
hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left

CHARLIEBZ

Wednesday, May 21, 2008 2:40 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by LeopardFlan:

oops, I messed up the quote - You said, and I'm paraphrasing here: "no, the whore had the baby (I think)"

After Rance killed Nandi, he took the baby and ran away. So, I'm pretty sure that newborn was in the speeder as it flew away with no one at the wheel (or whatever steers it!).

LEOPARDFLAN

Wednesday, May 21, 2008 3:00 AM

Oh.

Another excuse to watch the series again, then

#~%~~*~~~&~~~*~~%~#\/#~%~~*~~~&~~~*~~%~#

Stan: LF! Stuffed LF!
Stan: That didn't sound right.. sorry. I'm not some psycho taxidermist serial killer or anything.

BLINDOUTLAW

Wednesday, May 21, 2008 3:00 AM

What really bug me is the name Joey Blogs in the Train Job

What i mean is the name Joe Blogs is used to give a name to someone that has none, similar to the name John Doe given to unknown bodies at crime scenes. It just kinda seems that Joss and Tim were writing it and couldnt think of a name and just went "Joey Blogs, we'll come back and fix it later" but never did

either that or its just a fun way to say, Joey Blogs is dead so you don't feel bad when Mal says "So is his job open?"

----------------
That was when i found out my pants were on fire, and that's my Courageous story.

http://www.myspace.com/blindoutlaw

- Jimmy the Blindoutlaw

CHARLIEBZ

Wednesday, May 21, 2008 3:03 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by LeopardFlan:
Oh.

Another excuse to watch the series again, then

Don't ya just hate that?

DAVESHAYNE

Wednesday, May 21, 2008 12:04 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by CharlieBZ:
After Rance killed Nandi, he took the baby and ran away. So, I'm pretty sure that newborn was in the speeder as it flew away with no one at the wheel (or whatever steers it!).

No Rance just ran. Baby was elsewhere by that time.

David

'Geeks can't admit that anything worthwhile was invented before 1981. Soon, "making cocoa" will be called "milk hacking."' - Lore Sjoberg

http://xkcd.com/386/

I has myspace - http://www.myspace.com/daveshayneforpresident

DAVESHAYNE

Wednesday, May 21, 2008 12:08 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by mal4prez:
Maybe I'm just making that up. OK, I'm totally making it up, but I'd bet money that Mal didn't explain till Simon went and got River.

Well I won't take that bet though I still expect your wrong. Simon has an insane stubborn streak particularly as regards River.

David

'Geeks can't admit that anything worthwhile was invented before 1981. Soon, "making cocoa" will be called "milk hacking."' - Lore Sjoberg

http://xkcd.com/386/

I has myspace - http://www.myspace.com/daveshayneforpresident

TUJIAOZUO

Thursday, May 22, 2008 5:06 AM

Ok, so I just spent the last three days watching the entire series (with my friend, baptizing her Browncoat style) and after watching them all, I have a few big peeves that no one pointed out (though I agree with a couple previously posted)

OoG: Regardless of the fact that I loved the flashbacks and insite into how the crew joined up, the part where Mal got rid of the other pirates that wanted to take over Serenity was the worst piece of writing I have ever seen. An entire crew would not back away from a ship if one severly injured person with a small firearm was threatening them. That's so out there. even if he did point the gun at them and their captain, he's still injured and greatly outnumbered. What should have happened was they took over the ship and someone accidentally hit the call back button, returning the crew who fought the other crew back and saved Mal. I know it's probably nothing near what Tim Minear was trying to get to, but it would have been more plausible than Mal with a shot to the gut and a tiny gun scaring off an entire crew.

HoG: Besides the whole 'Rich man who practically owns the planet but has to rely on a prostetute to get a baby regardless he could pay for another alternative' plot hole, there's a two second shot of Rance holding his son where the baby is a doll. Plastic, completely fake, not even a good fake baby, but one that you find on sale at a toy store. Those two seconds bug the crap out of me more than Mal being able to chase the hovercraft down on a horse.

BDM: Simon. I can't stand him the entire movie until the very end, and he's one of my favorites (second to the captain, naturally). I don't why he was written or acted so stiffly and aggressively (to the point of barely emoting in the beginning, the 'this is anger' thing was the worst part, it's always easy to distinguish Simon being angry in the series), I understand the need and that his character had changed during the months between the series and the BDM, but there isn't a shred of the old character left. Not even a vest, which is something I think is as distinguishable to his character as the suspenders and brown coat is to Mal or the screened tees are to Jayne. It was just as dissapointing as hell to me. Everyone that watches the movie always tells me in the end that they couldn't stand him, I actually had my friend think he was a complete asshole until she watched the series, where she finally saw the character for who he was and loved him (second to the captain still, naturally).

Your Indian Pirate Lord,
Ash

MISSTRESSAHARA

Friday, May 23, 2008 6:54 AM

The one thing that has always, always bugged me was in HOG, after Rance takes the baby they cut to Nandi at the window, holding her shotgun, she turns when she here's the commotion and goes to check out why but LEAVES THE SHOTGUN BEHIND! Why? I mean she knows the men could get into the building, she heard the scuffle, but stupidly doesn't go armed because there needed to be a reason for Rance to kill her. I just thought it was a waste and an insult to the incredible character she was. Up to that point she was as smart, wise and strong as any of our BDH (smarter than some) but they make her have this stupid moment that costs her life. It was a cheap way of killing her off and I just hate when that scene comes up. I always scream at the TV "Take the BLOODY gun with you!"

Well, that's my cringe worthy moment. There are others but that one sticks out.

And those mentioning why Mal didn't tell Tracy, I felt that same way. The best way would have been for Mal to try to convince Tracy he was not going to turn him in, but Tracy not believing and taking Kaylee as a hostage.

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~

DON'T FREAK OUT

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DAVEGRINBERG

Friday, May 23, 2008 8:58 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SpaceAnJL:
The idea really begins to unravel when folk start imputing big secrets to Book and Inara as well. That's where the storylines lose all credibility.

I for one was really looking forward to finding out some details on the good Sheppherd's obviously non-pastoral past. In fact one of the things I find so compelling about the show is that most of the characters have obviously rich story lines in their past that we never got to see more of. H E double hockey sticks - there's a whole season of material (or more) just in exploring some of that past material.

Select to view spoiler:

To me the dumbest thing in FF/BDM is the killing off of two of the major characters in the first movie - kind of backs Joss and Co into something of a corner for the future (assuming there will be one) of the franchise. Both Book and Wash are so popular that another season would almost half to pretend the movie didn't happen, or at least cover time between the end of the show and the start of the film. Perhaps there's some behind the scenes discussion with Tudyk or Glass that meant they had to wrap up the characters.

Of course with Joss, I have some faith that he could have/will be able to pull of a reasonable conversion.

SPACEANJL

Friday, May 23, 2008 3:41 PM

Ah, what I meant by 'big secrets' was the sort of 'vital to the safety of the universe' type secrets, not 'life's rich tapestry' type secrets.

Book with dodgy past is a given, but Book with another secret that could bring down Parliament - no. Same with Inara.

And losing Wash? Big mistake. Huge. *waves shopping bags for emphasis*

KNIGHTREYEDER

Friday, May 23, 2008 10:46 PM

Wow, are we picking our fav series apart or what here? AND, the points are all good ones....

How about Wash's performance in the Message. It's always bugged me at how good a pilot he's supposed to be but they wanted us to believe he'd overlook something as simple as the botched getaway in the canyons.

I agree on the organ thing that someone else mentioned, weak. I would understand one badly needed organ being hooked up inside someone but replacing yours with a complete set.....come on.

I need to pimp for Serenity in the AMC blogs. If you're a true Browncoat please click the link in my signature and vote for our favorite ship, PLEASE!!??

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Mal's expression in the scrapyard when he first see's Serenity says it all.

IMNOTHERE

Friday, May 23, 2008 11:02 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DaveGrinberg:
Select to view spoiler:
To me the dumbest thing in FF/BDM is the killing off of two of the major characters in the first movie - kind of backs Joss and Co into something of a corner for the future (assuming there will be one) of the franchise. Both Book and Wash are so popular that another season would almost half to pretend the movie didn't happen, or at least cover time between the end of the show and the start of the film. Perhaps there's some behind the scenes discussion with Tudyk or Glass that meant they had to wrap up the characters.

Of course with Joss, I have some faith that he could have/will be able to pull of a reasonable conversion.

(Anybody here not seen Serenity? Doubt it, but I'll keep the spoiler tags going anyway)

Select to view spoiler:

I think the reason is that Joss was hoping to do 2 more films and didn't feel that whereas a 20-episode TV show can take the time to develop 9 main characters, a couple of 2-hour movies would leave some of them on the sidelines. You can see this in some of the Trek films, where some of the crew barely get a line.

Plus, my theory is that Book was (originally), unbeknown to Simon, was the one who actually got River out of the academy and was following her (picking up *4* passengers with Big Secrets in the pilot in one go is rather more credible if they are all connected). If so, that would have got messed up when the BDM changed history to have Simon spring River himself (in order to re-introduce the characters)...

TRAVELER

Saturday, May 24, 2008 12:35 AM

In the "Message" I got the opinion that Mal was about to tell Tracey the plan, but Tracey pulled out the gun and survival took over. It would have been simple to say "Hey were not going to turn you in", but a gun is pointed at your head so you tend to change your priorities and forget important things like that.

Since Book took the lead by facing the bad guys, I suspect he also devised the plan. So he may not have completed the whole scope of what they were going to do once they faced the so called lawmen.

I have to agree about Stitch's condition after several years in a metal box. That he could stand at all seems rather impossible.

The young man at the dance just seemed rude. It was not long after that when Kaylee was surrounded by pack of very fine men who charmed by her.

http://www.imdb.com/mymovies/list?l=28764731
Traveler

PDCHARLES

Saturday, May 24, 2008 2:41 AM

Well, looks like we have winner for most flawed: HOG. ...and I ain’t talkin’ bout the bacon providin’ variety.

And now for the IMO stuff.

Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Mal's shooting of the Alliance pilot who was trying to surrender was nothing but murder...didn't sit well with me...yes he killed Book and all the others, but he was trying to surrender.

I think they made a point to show the kid lying dead before this scene. …also seemed to be the near turning point for Mal’s “ways”. Soon before the shooting, he had the conversation with the “monster” operative. The Operative was trying to convince Mal he was no diff. than him and didn’t belong in the “better” world. With those events back-to-back, the audience really isn’t sure if Mal IS any different and he will have to prove such in later in the story.

Quote:
Originally posted by mal4prez:
Now, Zoe doing her somersault and standing there in the line of fire for three hours while she draws her gun is dumb dumb dumb! I cringe every time.

OMG yes. Just as bad is the Jayne “close-line, flip, and head bonk” in the heist in the BDM. Why does it have to be so close to the beginning too.

I cringe and also try to divert the attention of anyone I was trying to “convert” with a random question or noise, lol.

Quote:
Originally posted by TuJiaoZuo:
OoG: Regardless of the fact that I loved the flashbacks and insite into how the crew joined up, the part where Mal got rid of the other pirates that wanted to take over Serenity was the worst piece of writing I have ever seen. An entire crew would not back away from a ship if one severly injured person with a small firearm was threatening them. That's so out there. even if he did point the gun at them and their captain, he's still injured and greatly outnumbered. …

How did that work out for Kaylee when our beloved crew starting easing in on Dobson.

From a pure numbers perspective, I see ur point.

It was their captain who gave the “do as he says” nod to his crew. Coulda been that captain, much like Mal, wants to save his hide. (like the aforementioned end of WS piece, which I love) Also, coulda been respect. A storied captain might know what a man it takes to stand from a wound like that.

Woulda been kinda cool, if the other captain at that “stand-off” moment, notices some symbol that Mal fought for the Independents. Then he nods at Mal with respect and moves on.

Quote:
Originally posted by TuJiaoZuo:
BDM: Simon. I can't stand him the entire movie until the very end, and he's one of my favorites (second to the captain, naturally). I don't why he was written or acted so stiffly and aggressively (to the point of barely emoting in the beginning, the 'this is anger' thing was the worst part, it's always easy to distinguish Simon being angry in the series), I understand the need and that his character had changed during the months between the series and the BDM, but there isn't a shred of the old character left. Not even a vest, which is something I think is as distinguishable to his character as the suspenders and brown coat is to Mal or the screened tees are to Jayne. It was just as dissapointing as hell to me. …

I feel the same way, especially in the beginning of BDM. Have to watch again, but something was just odd. Coulda been Nathan just outshining our boy, but… Not sure.

BORIS

Saturday, May 24, 2008 4:44 AM

Dumbest thing for me was not enough Badger in the series...and where was he in the movie? Also dumb, Mal sleeping with Nandi that was very dumb of him, though at least she got something good out of it.

TILLIESONG

Saturday, May 24, 2008 5:00 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by mal4prez:
Now, Zoe doing her somersault and standing there in the line of fire for three hours while she draws her gun is dumb dumb dumb! I cringe every time.

What bugs me the most is the editing. If that shot had been cut a few frames sooner, we wouldn't see that she couldn't get up from the somersault (not enough momentum? gun too heavy? costume too constricting?). Always wanted to re-edit that shot.

I get annoyed with Inara in OMR. She's supposed to be this über-Companion, and yet she's clearly almost bested by Yo-Saf-Bridge. And her self-defense skills in their little fight are weeeeak.

IMNOTHERE

Saturday, May 24, 2008 9:55 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by TillieSong:
I get annoyed with Inara in OMR. She's supposed to be this über-Companion, and yet she's clearly almost bested by Yo-Saf-Bridge. And her self-defense skills in their little fight are weeeeak.

...but YoSafBridge supposedly had companion training *plus* extra con-woman and general felony experience that probably isn't on the Companion school curriculum (although that did apparently include sword fighting, even for the women).

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Monday, May 26, 2008 8:20 AM

Inara saying in HoG strictly businesslike relationship, then crying about Nandi/Mal, then saying she's leaving. Act like a grownup, girl.

VOLK564

Monday, May 26, 2008 4:23 PM

Mal to Simon in "Safe" -

"You're on my crew. Why're we still talking about this?"

Mal to Simon in Serenity -

"I look out for me and mine. That don't include you unless I conjure it does."

I mean, come on. A little continuity?

Other than that though - all good.

MOOSE

Tuesday, May 27, 2008 10:32 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Knightreyeder:
Wow, are we picking our fav series apart or what here? AND, the points are all good ones....

Yeah, you're right. What a crappy show! No wonder F*X cancelled it!!!!

Quote:
Originally posted by traveler:
In the "Message" I got the opinion that Mal was about to tell Tracey the plan, but Tracey pulled out the gun and survival took over. It would have been simple to say "Hey were not going to turn you in", but a gun is pointed at your head so you tend to change your priorities and forget important things like that.

That's my take on it as well. Tracey didn't exactly give them a chance to tell him. He overheard "Call the cops..." then instantly pulled the gun and threatened everyone.

FREEBROWNCOAT

Wednesday, May 28, 2008 2:29 AM

In hindsight and in the comfort of our computer chairs, we can pick apart many things. In the heat of the moment, when desperately trying to get 40 minutes of show in the can, I can imagine everyone shooting from the hip when in a tight spot.

Still, the characters stay in their character. That's what I like. And their characters have so much depth for a series it's amazing the writiers could do all that dialog and get it in the can in six days.

So mistakes crept in. Nandi's baby is certainly one glaring example. So aside from a continuity problem, easily solved if Mal had handed the baby over to Nandi, they stay in character and within the restraints of assigned personality.

Hard to fault damn good writing for the entire series. Firefly lives forever!

"Say godbye to your daddy, Jonah."

DAVEGRINBERG

Wednesday, May 28, 2008 4:10 AM

So how about favourite moments? Personally, I think the opening scene of Trash is priceless... naked on a rock in the middle of nowhere "that went well"... in fact that whole episode pretty much captured the whole lighter-side spirit of the series for me, while the Message summed up the darker, but just as important.

KNIGHTREYEDER

Wednesday, May 28, 2008 11:56 AM

Can't agree on the neck-edness episode, I thought it was just a bit too corny and was pushing the limits of just how off center Mal could be. I find it a little hard to imagine a person acting the way he did when the crew arrived.......the episode had redeeming qualities though, Simon's ultimatum to Jayne, Inara's upper handedness at the dumpster amongst other things.

Strong points well out weigh the bad and I hope no one thinks this Browncoat had that good a time nitpicking earlier. There are SO MANY really good moments with every character in the series, which says a lot when one considers the size of the cast.

It defies all logic how this show wasn't allowed to steamroller any series ever made.....which it basically did anyway!

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Mal's expression in the scrapyard when he first see's Serenity says it all.

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT

Wednesday, May 28, 2008 1:45 PM

The "hook" for Out Of Gas- the notion that life support runs thru the main engine. Atmo oughtta have multi, multi backups, and in the end, be controllable by hand valves on the gas tanks and hand vents out of the hull- it is just gas- it's gotta be in cylinders somewhere. River's point, not that they'll asphyx-- ( ne'mind, strangle or choke) but that they'll freeze, does make better sense. Heat does take power.

KNIGHTREYEDER

Thursday, May 29, 2008 3:11 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by NewOldBrownCoat:
The "hook" for Out Of Gas-........River's point, not that they'll asphyx-- ( ne'mind, strangle or choke) but that they'll freeze, does make better sense. Heat does take power.

Like in underwater exploration and submarines.....very believable.

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Mal's expression in the scrapyard when he first see's Serenity says it all.

TILLIESONG

Monday, June 2, 2008 5:33 PM

I never did figure out how the ship managed to have gravity without power in OoG. Any ideas on this?

NBZ

Monday, June 2, 2008 6:08 PM

according to the official blueprints from quantum mechanics, each floor has its own "gravity" (which acts within a limited range).

Think of it as something built into the ship that does not need to draw power.