spike

POSTED BY: est120
UPDATED: Monday, November 1, 2004 17:02
VIEWED: 7829
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EST120

Wednesday, October 27, 2004 12:33 AM

okay, not sure if i just missed something, but in the angel finale, spike and angel are discussing who will become human based on the shanshu prophecy and angel says "we're not going to make it through", implying that he expects them all to die fighting the senior partners after taking out the black thorn. my question is, earlier in the episode, angel signs away his chance to become human to finally prove his loyalty to the black thorn. does this make spike the vampire with a soul who becomes human as reward for his role in the apocalypse?

JEWEL

Wednesday, October 27, 2004 12:54 AM

That's the way I read it. Angel knows he can't have the reward anymore, but that doesn't mean he's going to tell Spike that. I think Angel really figured that none of them were going to make it out alive and he wanted to go out fighing the good fight. Spike seemed ok with that, too.

DIETCOKE

Wednesday, October 27, 2004 1:28 AM

If anyone lives through the battle it will be Spike and he will be the one in the prophecy is how I took it.

EMBERS

Wednesday, October 27, 2004 1:39 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by est120:
does this make spike the vampire with a soul who becomes human as reward for his role in the apocalypse?

Well on the phone on Sunday Joss said that Spike shanshues...
of course he may have been kidding...

GROUNDED

Wednesday, October 27, 2004 10:17 AM

More than one option is possible. For instance, Angel may well be the vampire referenced in the prophecy in which case the prophecy becomes null and void once Angel has signed it. Thus it may be that Spike can become human or it may be that neither ever will.

JEWEL

Wednesday, October 27, 2004 12:03 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Grounded:
More than one option is possible. For instance, Angel may well be the vampire referenced in the prophecy in which case the prophecy becomes null and void once Angel has signed it. Thus it may be that Spike can become human or it may be that neither ever will.

That's a good point. I hadn't really thought of it from that angle before. But I have wondered about the specifics of the prophecy itself. Is it possible that the gang had it wrong the whole time? That perhaps it had nothing to do with becoming human? What I mean is Spike, at the end of BtVS dies and yet he lives again in Angel. Could that have been the prophecy all along?

IDEFIX

Wednesday, October 27, 2004 12:06 PM

I think there's four possibilities.

1. it was Angel, who was meant to shanshu and he signed it off so no one's gonna.

2. it was Spike who was meant to shanshu. so if he makes it and the end of AtS was the right apocalypse he's gonna shanshu. if he's destroyed nothing will happen and if he makes it and that was not the right apocalypse it might come on in "Spike the Series" or "Spike the TV Movie" or Spike the Movie" sometime in 2012 or so. whatever.

3. it was another vampire with a soul, one that we don't know of or that doesn't even exist yet.

4. it was a vague prophecy about any vampire with a soul with a big part in any apocalypse. since Angel signed it off he won't get it. but it might be that Spike get's it for the end of AtS, or not. being vague here... Spike couls have gotten if for the end of BtVS if it was that vague but he hasn't, he's still a vampire. but then again given the problems they had diciding what exactly "shanshu" meant in the first place maybe it was Spike and the end of BtVS, he was destroyed and was brought back. not exactly living and human - but who knows?

Idefix

GROUNDED

Wednesday, October 27, 2004 3:56 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Idefix:
I think there's four possibilities.
2. it was Spike who was meant to shanshu. so if he makes it and the end of AtS was the right apocalypse he's gonna shanshu. if he's destroyed nothing will happen and if he makes it and that was not the right apocalypse it might come on in "Spike the Series" or "Spike the TV Movie" or Spike the Movie" sometime in 2012 or so. whatever.

When James is 50+... ;)

IDEFIX

Wednesday, October 27, 2004 4:09 PM

I've heard he's 44 or something like that now, so, why not? he seems to be immune to age.

makes the EP "Tabula Rasa" a really weird story, though. they tried to make us believe that Spike was young enough to be thought of as Giles son, if memory was removed.
since Tony Head is 50 now, this seems ludicrous. them being 6 years or so apart. and even if the 44 are not true, JM doesn't really tell, he's older than 40. and less than 10 years age difference don't make for a good father-son relationship.
I'd be majorly offended if I were Tony Head. *big grin*

I even read somewhere (don't remember where) that some people thought Spike was supposed to be 23 or so. I thought they aimed somewhere towards 30-35. but the flashbacks on Angel do show us a pretty young acting version of Spike. and then again he never really grew up in all of his 120 something years.

I think JM looks now (apart from the hair) pretty much like the first day he was on Buffy in early S2, maybe he can play Spike ten years from now. as long as they don't try to have Angel in the movie, it will probably work out all right.

Idefix

GROUNDED

Wednesday, October 27, 2004 9:41 PM

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0551346/

James' birthday is 20th August 1962. Thus he is currently 42.

It's much easier to disguise ages in the 20-30 bracket - I mean all the Buffy 'kids' weren't really 'kids' at the time. CC and NB are like 10 years older than their characters are supposed to be but they got away with it at the time because they slotted into the 20-30 bracket. DB was beginning to show his age a little at the end of Angel but that's because he actually started playing Angel at approximately the right age - the only problem being that the character isn't supposed to age!

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