Obama: We brokered a deal to transition power in Ukraine
POSTED BY: SIGNYM
UPDATED: Tuesday, February 10, 2015 02:45
VIEWED: 12426
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So, MRG are you saying that Yanukovich was a Russian puppet?
yes or no.
If yes, provide evidence.
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You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.
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Kiki The Old Sow: "I read that Putin is trying to corner the hog futures market."
Sniggy The Piggy: "I seriously doubt that. Besides, how could he do it?"
Kiki The Old Sow: "RT said he's going to kill all the capitalist pigs in Ukraine and Poland."
Sniggy The Piggy: "So that'll leave just us commie pigs, right?"
Kiki The Old Sow: "That's what they're saying!"
Sniggy The Piggy: "I so love our little chats dear comrade."
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I think the weight of evidence is that the US and Britain orchestrated a coup in the Ukraine that ousted a legitimate, democratically elected government, in order to install a more economically pliant one (all this happened after Yanukovich refused to sign the political association pact and restrictive free trade agreement with the EU).
Everything else is quibbling over meaningless decoys.
And apparently you both agree since neither of you can refute - or even address - the point.
SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.
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G Not at all.
SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.
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I think the weight of evidence is that the US and Britain orchestrated a coup in the Ukraine that ousted a legitimate, democratically elected government, in order to install a more economically pliant one (all this happened after Yanukovich refused to sign the political association pact and restrictive free trade agreement with the EU).
Everything else is quibbling over meaningless decoys.
And apparently you both agree since neither of you can refute - or even address - the point. 
Locals say the man was killed by an air strike from Ukrainian forces in Luhansk Oblast’s Stanytsya Luhanska. 
Ukrainian bombing of a residence suburb in Donetsk. Family inside killed by the shelling
SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
I think the weight of evidence is that the US and Britain orchestrated a coup in the Ukraine that ousted a legitimate, democratically elected government, in order to install a more economically pliant one (all this happened after Yanukovich refused to sign the political association pact and restrictive free trade agreement with the EU).
Everything else is quibbling over meaningless decoys.
And apparently you both agree since neither of you can refute - or even address - the point.
SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:I replied to KPO in detail. I will reply to his response separately.
Originally posted by G:Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
So, MRG are you saying that Yanukovich was a Russian puppet?
yes or no.
If yes, provide evidence.
So what your saying is KPO totally gutted you 2 and now you have to run and hide. Is that what you're saying?
What I'm doing now is responding to YOU, and you are hiding behind KPO. Not only are you a nitwit, you don't have the courage of your convictions, nor the facts to back them up (but everybody knows that by now, because you are infamous for your allegations, for which you can't ever seem to provide actual evidence).
So, Yanukovich: Russian puppet or not? And evidence, please.
--------------
You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.
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Quote:Then why are the Berkut being blamed by the current government?
Kiev's case against the Berkut is widely seen as flawed, as reported by Reuters (you accept Reuters as a source, do you not?)- SIGNY
I said Yanukovich's security services were responsible, not the Berkut specifically.
Quote:
No, while some of the protesters died by AK-47 fire, probably from the Berkut, many more were killed by expert snipers with different bullets and more accurate weapons. Evidence points to an elite unit known as 'Alfa team', and the SBU (the Ukrainian secret service) - http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/03/30/exclusive-photographs
-expose-russian-trained-killers-in-kiev.html
That makes no sense at all. Why would a Russian-affiliated security agency inflame a situation leading to their "puppet's" immediate downfall, if a peaceful transition of power and early elections had not been agreed to the immediately preceding day? (Feb 21) I understand that there are a lot of conspiracies behind events, but one of the prime tenets of putting up a conspiracy theory is that you have to show the the conspirators would actually benefit from their own plans. Qui bono? So, how would this help Yanukovich, or Russia?
Quote:So, because people don't like a President, and EARLY ELECTIONS ARE PLANNED for the near future, that means that they have the "right" to violently overthrow the government?
"democratically elected president" I fixed that for you, since you forgot that part- SIGNY
Pro-Russians like to hammer on about Yanuk being democratically elected, as if that forgives him of all his sins. he was democratically elected but thoroughly undemocratic, and the people overwhelmingly turned against him - even his traditional supporters. His party turned against him, voting to remove him from office, but still got roundly trounced at the presidential elections that followed the revolution - receiving 3% of the vote. Such is the stain of Yanukovich - the man is reviled across Ukraine. Pro-Russians who talk about this deposed Russian puppet as if he is some kind of legitimate-leader-in-exile are living in a Russian propagandist's fantasy land.
Quote:Bullshit. Even the Commanding General of the Ukraine forces clearly and unequivocally says that there are no Russian troops in Ukraine. You (and MRG) have this idee fixe stuck in your heads... RUSSIAN INVASION!... which no lack of evidence will ever dislodge. You're as bad about this as RAPPY about Iraq's "WMD". I expect that a decade hence, you will still be obsessing about the "Russian invasion".
your so-called "free and fair" elections did not include a significant portion of the nation which was unwilling to accept the undemocratically-appointed leaders-SIGNY
The elections did not include a small but significant part of the nation that had been invaded and occupied by a Russian proxy.
Quote:Polls and referenda, plus the rather robust volunteer force of residents tells an opposite story.
There's no evidence that 'the people' in rebel-occupied Donbas rejected the Kiev government (and there still isn't). Many in fact would have voted in the elections, but the separatists STOPPED them.
Quote:Bullshit. Your idee fixe again. What would you say if it turned out that it really WAS US mercs? That would be an idea you could not possibly tolerate, and so ... you won't.
"We" have the right to meddle on any nation, to depose elected officials for specious reasons- SIGNY
Not specious reasons - Yanukovich had started murdering unarmed protesters.
Quote:
And yes, there is a degree of paternalism in the US, a mature (although not perfect) democracy helping a young democracy to replace an undemocratic leader and restart the democratic process. You can howl about the USA having a hand in the formation of the interim government, and to some extent you are probably right, but theNOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Signy
Among other hilarities, KPO also believes Iraq manufactured and possessed WMDs. You're not dealing with a rational, evidence-based mind. He's religious about his facts, and hews to a neo'liberal' sect.
SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
I think the weight of evidence is that the US and Britain orchestrated a coup in the Ukraine that ousted a legitimate, democratically elected government, in order to install a more economically pliant one (all this happened after Yanukovich refused to sign the political association pact and restrictive free trade agreement with the EU).
Everything else is quibbling over meaningless decoys.
And apparently you both agree since neither of you can refute - or even address - the point.
SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME