Obama: We brokered a deal to transition power in Ukraine
POSTED BY: SIGNYM
UPDATED: Tuesday, February 10, 2015 02:45
VIEWED: 12426
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One of the things that I thought was interesting is the other part of what Victoria Nuland said ... that the USA spent $5B in Ukraine since it achieved its independence in 1991.
Hmmm... $5B ... but over about 25 years. I dunno, doesn't seem like much, what might $5B buy?
Well, assuming that the USA spent equal amounts over 23 years, that's about $220M a year. If half of that went to buy off... er, I mean support ... various oligarchs and security groups, that would leave something like $110M for "the masses". Heck, you could have paid every person on the Maidan something like $1000 - which is a lot of money in the Ukraine!- and they could have stopped working and shut down their businesses for a few months on that money (How DID they manage to support themselves during the long-term demonstration, anyway?) and you would still have a few million left for coffee and donuts and posters and flags.
Yep, that $5B could have paid for a lot of people.
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You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.
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Imagine if the US had kept all the trillions spent in Iraq and Afghanistan! Yeah, it's mind boggling - we could all retire 10 times over.
You say that like it's a bad thing.
SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.
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Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Well, I noticed that the usual suspects are missing from this conversation: THUGR, G, KPO, MAL4, and (lately) GEEZER, who all like to believe that this was just a spontaneous cry from all Ukrainians, who wanted to be free of their (corrupt but elected) government.
So what exactly is the sig troll's source for his/her/its brilliant insight in this thread? The source he/she/it trusts more than any other possible source in the whole wide world? Expand on this reference of yours, please sig. Do share its full background and those who created and support it. In full detail please. Leave nothing out.
Other posters: note that in this thread he/she/it right away relied on the bored indifference of actual discerning, intelligent people (like me) who long ago dismissed her as naught but a troll, as if getting us to blow off her babbling nonsense added up to support of her insanity.
The kiki-sock tried to manage the same by attempting to sell me as mentally deficient--get this--because I find screaming children annoying. Really? Any follow up on that Sig/Kik troll? Please. Try it again. Try to dismiss me--on topic. Give it a go honey.
Siggy.*sigh* Just like Rap, all you do is illustrate the madness of your way of [that thing that other people call thinking but for you... it's not so much...] *thinking*.
This is fun. Let's do it some more.
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GeeWhiz
I hear it like it's a good thing. I'd be all for it. Cut the military. Bring all our troops home, and dismantle our overseas bases. Reduce our fleets. Stop funding offensive weapons systems. Just because we threw away trillions before doesn't mean we have to keep doing it now. It's not too late to stop repeating the same mistakes.
Would you be for that?
SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.
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So anyway, back to the topic.
I think the fact that Nuland was talking about replacement government before the old one was deposed in a coup indicates US involvement. I think it's a significant piece of information. Anyone interested in discussion?
SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.
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No, nobody want to know how Obama wound up picking the PM (who has persisted in unelected position ever since the coup) well before Yanukovich ever fled the capital. That would be an admission that the USA was propelling this thing along, even AFTER a negotiated settlement had been reached on Feb 21. (Feb 22 was the day of the coup)
I just got a transcript of the entire conversation between Ashton and Paet, where Paet lays the blame of the Maidan snipings on someone other than Yanukovich. Unfortunately, the person (or machine) who transcribed the conversation didn't think to label with who was saying what, so once I add that info, I'll post it here.
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So it WASN'T a spontaneous expression of Ukrainians yearning for i-pods and lattes. I mean, freedom.
SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.
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I listened to the recording of the leaked conversation (didn't you?) when it first came out, and since the transcript follows the rough outline of the conversation, along with key points and unusual phrases I'm not worried about the provenance.
Also, it's a very different thing to say that you were "involved in" Ukraine versus saying that you "brokered a deal to transition power" ... the second sentence does put the USA in the position of determining who would take power in Ukraine after Yanukovich was driven from office, which is exactly what happened: "Our guy" became PM and in fact "our guy" is STILL PM.
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You can't build a nation with bombs. You can't create a society with guns.
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I noticed I missed this:
Well, the election was observed by in international observers who gave it THUMBS UP. I know I've posted the Guardian article on that 3 or 4 times so I'm not going to post it yet again.
But you and you ilk have posted this lie more than once, it's been refuted more than once, and yet - you just can't stop yourself from lying, can you?
What lie exactly? Seriously, I want to see if you know what that word actually means.
The lie that a valid democratic election should be thought of as "democratic", as if Yanukovich was president without actual popular support, a lie that you repeated yet again. And you use that lie to pretend it was OK to have a coup against a democratically elected President, be cause, yanno, it was only "democratic".
..."this was just a spontaneous cry from the Ukrainians, who wanted to be free of their (elected Russian puppet) government."
So, yes I'm quite familiar with what the term "lie" means, if for no other reason than you present so many fine examples. What I'm curious about is if you're acquainted at all with the concept of "truth", as in, "correspondence to reality".
SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.
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Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Obama: "...we brokered a deal to transition power in Ukraine."
http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine-abroad/obama-theres-no-formula
-in-which-this-ends-up-being-good-for-russia-video-379148.html
It's an interesting admission. I hadn't really thought about it before, but someone behind the scenes does deserve great credit for the way Yanukovich left power. The way that Yanukovich lost power surprised everyone - with its suddenness, and cleanness and peacefulness. One day Yanukovich is ordering his security services to fire on unarmed protesters, killing dozens of them. And then the next day, suddenly, Yanukovich's security services stop answering to him, and pull back from their positions, allowing Maidan protesters to occupy public buildings. Yanukovich flees, and his own party votes to remove him from office.
Powerful people turned against Yanukovich, and undermined his power. A corrupt, murdering president was ousted and within months the country had free and fair democratic elections. That to me sounds like brokering well done.
It's not personal. It's just war.
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