Real World Event Discussions

Minimum Wage

POSTED BY: Trixy
UPDATED: Tuesday, December 16, 2014 22:48
VIEWED: 10274
PAGE 2 of 8

ELVISCHRIST

Sunday, October 26, 2014 9:20 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Having had to work 3 part time jobs AFTER COLLEGE for a time, it's not that I don't value min wage workers, its that people get the false impression that the 'min wage' is suppose to be permanent or long term. It's for entry level employees. And if you find yourself in a situation where you can't get a raise, or more hours, you prolly should get a 2nd job. Or a 3rd. It's not up to every business to bring new people on and pay them top $, from day 1. The employees have to prove their worth - TO THE COMPANY - or be replaced.

Don't like that scenario ? There are options. Make better grades. Choose a field which pays well. Get recruited by big time companies. Start your OWN business.

Or lobby for an increased minimum wage. That is an option.

And you're an idiot for calling the MINIMUM wage "top $."

But we already knew that.

ELVISCHRIST

Sunday, October 26, 2014 9:22 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

We are the sum of our own choices.

Too few want to admit that basic truth.

I readily admit that you are the sum of your choice to be an unmitigated asshole.

MAGONSDAUGHTER

Sunday, October 26, 2014 12:34 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
No thanks. I'm semi-retired now. Another year or two and I'll be totally out of the rat race. Gonna ride my old Schwinn bike and smell the flowers. It'll be glorious.

Lucky you. I've got many years ahead and there are times when I don't know if I'll make it through working the next 15 or so years.

JO753

Sunday, October 26, 2014 11:15 PM

The big problem that nobodyz talking about iz that working for money iz going away this century; probably within 40 yirz.

The ratio between labor and productivity haz been getting wider sins the invention uv the production line and soon the job uv automating all labor will be finished. Then wut do you pay peepl to do?

Sumbody smarter than me haz to think up a new way to divy up the welth being jenerated.

----------------------------
DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early

http://www.nooalf.com

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Tuesday, October 28, 2014 5:45 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Trixy:
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Having had to work 3 part time jobs AFTER COLLEGE for a time, it's not that I don't value min wage workers, its that people get the false impression that the 'min wage' is suppose to be permanent or long term. It's for entry level employees. And if you find yourself in a situation where you can't get a raise, or more hours, you prolly should get a 2nd job. Or a 3rd. It's not up to every business to bring new people on and pay them top $, from day 1. The employees have to prove their worth - TO THE COMPANY - or be replaced.

Don't like that scenario ? There are options. Make better grades. Choose a field which pays well. Get recruited by big time companies. Start your OWN business.

Listen. This basically boils down to this question: Do you believe that full-time workers, those who work the same amount of hours as anyone else in a job, should be paid enough to afford to survive?

If your answer is yes. Then you inevitably believe in a minimum wage raise. Regardless of your beliefs in the permanence of the work, you must acknowledge that work is work, and that it is fair that those who work be paid fairly for their work.

You have not mentioned the primary reason Democrats are always pushing for higher minimum wage. Are you ignorant of it? Or are you hiding, hoping nobody brings it up? Are you really with the Unions?

Do you acknowledge that flipping burgers and spitting in them while drunk and stoned beyond belief and yakking constantly on your phone during only the hours that you choose and on the days you can pry yourself off the couch is not quite the same as work during odd hours, in inclement conditions, maintaining a high safety awareness, using highly logical and reasoning abilities, and actually solving a problem without immediate supervision and without wasting money, material, time, or customer/client resources, for up to 20 hours per day or 120 hours per week? People who work minimum wage and are better than their pay get promoted, while those who are not worth what they're paid often do not get promoted. People who work for tips usually earn what they are worth, on the tip side. I have seen many people get hired away because somebody saw them working beneath what they were worth, and if the current employer isn't paying somebody enough, the free market will alleviate that employer of their best worker.

JONGSSTRAW

Tuesday, October 28, 2014 8:34 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:

Do you acknowledge that flipping burgers and spitting in them while drunk and stoned beyond belief and yakking constantly on your phone during only the hours that you choose and on the days you can pry yourself off the couch is not quite the same as work during odd hours, in inclement conditions, maintaining a high safety awareness, using highly logical and reasoning abilities, and actually solving a problem without immediate supervision and without wasting money, material, time, or customer/client resources, for up to 20 hours per day or 120 hours per week? People who work minimum wage and are better than their pay get promoted, while those who are not worth what they're paid often do not get promoted. People who work for tips usually earn what they are worth, on the tip side. I have seen many people get hired away because somebody saw them working beneath what they were worth, and if the current employer isn't paying somebody enough, the free market will alleviate that employer of their best worker.

Great post. Many times I've had to recruit new hires due to expansion. I found the best place to find them was by looking at our competitor's employees. Hire the best they have and it becomes a win-win situation. You strengthen your company while hurting your competitor. God bless America and Free Market Capitalism.

1KIKI

Tuesday, October 28, 2014 8:42 AM

You have not mentioned the primary reason Democrats are always pushing for higher minimum wage.

Hopefully it's because they know that raising the minimum wage gets the economy moving.

SAGAN: We are releasing vast quantities of carbon dioxide, increasing the greenhouse effect. It may not take much to destabilize the Earth's climate, to convert this heaven, our only home in the cosmos, into a kind of hell.

TRIXY

Tuesday, October 28, 2014 10:00 AM

Quote:
You have not mentioned the primary reason Democrats are always pushing for higher minimum wage. Are you ignorant of it? Or are you hiding, hoping nobody brings it up? Are you really with the Unions?

So, your logic is, that democrats solely push for minimum raise wages because of unions and not because of the various economic impacts that minimum wage being so far behind has? If so, that is pathetic. Below this post I have decided to include posts from the other thread in which I brought up several trends associated with the gap between minimum wage and the inflation of goods. Please do read them. They might just enlighten you a tad.

Moreover, it is this sort of closed-minded "us-against-them" attitude that is sinking this nation and that will lead to the death of the republican party at this rate (barring change). Tic-for-tac politics doesn't work. Regardless of the motivation, minimum wage raise is much needed for economic reasons.

Quote:
Do you acknowledge that flipping burgers and spitting in them while drunk and stoned beyond belief and yakking constantly on your phone during only the hours that you choose and on the days you can pry yourself off the couch

I have worked my way through college. By tooth and hoof I worked 52 hours a week while attending school last year. And, ironically, it was my internship, where I held full employee responsibilities as a Network Analyst (70k a year starting-salary job) that I found the easiest of the jobs I held. In fact, my job at Hellmart (walmart), was by far the most challenging as I had little-to-no choice over my hours, and the work conditions were absolutely horrid for the pay I received. And, make no mistake, my experience isn't out of the ordinary, it is the norm. Skilled workers hold MUCH more pull over their employers because they have a trade that not everyone knows. Unskilled labor can be performed by anyone, and as such, workers are treated as expendable (something I won't necessarily argue against).

That burger flipper, who you claim to be drunk and stoned, still likely impacts more customers on a daily basis than you could hope to in a week. The average McDonalds employee will serve up to a several thousand customers during their shift. And in turn, directly makes more money for there company then you do.

Quote:
is not quite the same as work during odd hours, in inclement conditions, maintaining a high safety awareness, using highly logical and reasoning abilities, and actually solving a problem without immediate supervision and without wasting money, material, time, or customer/client resources, for up to 20 hours per day or 120 hours per week?

I would be interested in knowing how many skilled labor positions require a higher safety awareness than an unskilled labor position. You forget that the economy we live in is a service-economy. Services are hardly more dangerous than physical labor in most circumstances.

The only difference between your average unskilled labor-worker and the average skilled labor-worker is an education. College is the new class divider, and it is merciless.

As I stated before, unskilled labor workers are treated as expendable, so 90% of the time their job (which costs the company next to nothing to replace) is likely more on the line then most skilled laborers (whose jobs usually prove relatively valuable to the company, and require educated candidates to replace). If there are a ton of unskilled laborers out there, it is likely because they work for a wealthy business in which consumer opinion means next-to-nothing (whereby, the blame falls on the consumer) such as Walmart....

Again, referring to something stated earlier in this thread. Most minimum wage earners are women. Keep that in mind throughout this topic.

Quote:
People who work minimum wage and are better than their pay get promoted

Promotional pay is usually based off of an employee's starting salary. Raising minimum wage ensures that promotions and raises also pay off.

I d

TRIXY

Tuesday, October 28, 2014 10:01 AM

Quote:
Orignally posted by Trixy:
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:
. - Minimum wage absolutely needs to be raised. It is so far behind inflation that it is actually hurting the economy. Our congressmen have this weird idea that only the youth work for minimum wage establishments. This is hardly the case, the average age of a fast food employee is 28!

Welcome, but on this matter I'm gonna have to disagree with you. Raising the min wage benefits more union employees than it does entry level folk . It's a starting point. Anyone @ 38 who still is getting only min wage prolly deserves it.

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

I'm just a red pill guy in a room full of blue pill addicts.

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

Union Employees? What the hell are you talking about?

Minimum wage is a wide scale federal standard. It wouldn't just apply to those you seem to label as "union". The gap between minimum wage and the rise in prices for goods (inflation adjusted) has grown out of control since 1980. The differential is nearing $2, which is a crime given the economic situation we are in. I can tell you are the conservative type- so here is something that should get through to you- in not raising minimum wage we are drastically increasing the demand for welfare and unemployment benefits, as in many cases you can make more money off of those then you can a starting position job.

Moreover, just because someone has taken a sub-optimal career path doesn't mean they don't deserve the opportunity to earn a reasonable wage. It isn't like we are talking about forcing mom and pop shops to close up here. I am refering to the travesties that exist in employers such as Walmart, McDonalds, and other corporations in which employees make a cent for every dollar they make for the company...

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TRIXY

Tuesday, October 28, 2014 10:02 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Trixy:
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:
Originally posted by THGRRI:
TRIXY, rappy is an ideolog. You'll see by his response to you on the wage issue. On this issue I agree with you so far.

How about you allow others to form their own conclusions, w/ out trying to poison the well ?

@ Trixy - I never said it would ONLY apply to union employees. But since union pay scales are often contractually tied to the federal MINIMUM wage, raising that will also result in a hidden " surprise " for all businesses that employ union labor.

Aside from that , an arbitrary Federal mandate to raise wages would cost jobs. Even by the most conservative means, 10's of thousands of jobs would be lost , on average, in each state. Probably a good bit more.

Please enlighten me on how giving extra money to consumers while being completely in line with inflation will cost thousands of jobs....

Hell. The state with the highest minimum wage in the nation (Washington at $9.23) has the highest annual job growth rate in the nation.

This phenomenon isn't only limited to Washington either. In fact, the 13 states with the highest minimum wages saw annual job growth ranging from 5-14% while the bottom 37 states in this category only saw growth rates of ~.003%-2.8%.

Once again, this isn't a "new" phenomenon. Historically raises in the national minimum wage were followed by a decrease in unemployment and an increase in job growth. You have to remember that for every blue-collar job, there are 10 skill-less workers needed below.

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