So, Geezer, rappy, in your ideal world, what should happen?
POSTED BY: 1kiki
UPDATED: Wednesday, March 26, 2025 17:09
VIEWED: 12173
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I assume folks will follow common sense and some basic laws. How outrageous of me.
Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen
I'm just a red pill guy in a room full of blue pill addicts.
" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall
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And that means ... ? I have no idea what you're trying to say.
To argue with a man who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead. - Thomas Paine The American Crisis
OONJERAH - We are too dumb to live and smart enough to wipe ourselves out.
"You, who live in any kind of comfort or convenience, do not know how these people can survive these things, do you? They will endure because there is no immediate escape from endurance. Some will die, the rest must live."
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Greatest govt input = greater govt control, which means less individual freedom.
Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen
I'm just a red pill guy in a room full of blue pill addicts.
" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall
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Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
So, you base your society on a notion that everyone thinks just like you.
No. I base my ideal society on the notion that most people in it will share certain principles (pretty much the definition of a society). The folks in the countries you list obviously share certain principles, or their countries wouldn't run the way they do. Do you consider that everyone in Sweden, for example, thinks just alike, or thinks just like you do?
"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."
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Quote:Is it possible to have an intelligent conversation about this???? Or will this be just another fruitless attempt??
Greatest govt input = greater govt control, which means less individual freedom.
Let's take the notion of driving a car. There are all kinds of rules. Yanno, street lights, traffic lights, stop signs, road striping! The roads... funny, but they need to be built and maintained.
So let's imagine the situation WITHOUT government input and control:
No streets in front of MY house, because, yanno, I don't drive and I don't want it. So if you want to get to the person past me, you'll have to go the long way around, through the warren of alleys and whatever it is that people decided should be in front of their house. And you better come during the day- there won't be any lighting.
And your neck had better be on a swivel! Everyone will be driving every kind of vehicle every which way: donkey carts, bicycles, pedestrians, big delivery trucks- none of them stopping at intersections, which are clogged because everyone is trying to force their way through. But you're in a hurry. If ONLY you could get to that toll-road, which will cost you a crap-ton of money!
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When people live together, rappy, there ARE limits on individual behavior. And when people get together and do things collectively ... even if it's the "government" which is creating this collective ... a lot more things can be accomplished, making life easier for EVERYONE.
The point is, with collective effort and some rules, people can experience MORE freedom and a BETTER life than if they were to just have to muddle along individually. You failed to take that into account.
So if you could be SPECIFIC as to what you didn't want "the government" doing, and also come up with a reasonable alternative to replace critical functions (something that has a prayer of working) you'd have a lot more credibility. But when you make highly global statements (ALL government is bad) you lose a lot of people. If you want to convince people... I'm not sure you do, you seem to not have learned what it takes to even have a relevant conversation, after all of these years on a discussion board... you'll do something more than just throw in slogans.
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" In my ideal world, the vast majority of folks would understand that it was their responsibility to plan to have something in place to take care of themselves when they couldn't, and that voluntary associations would be in place for the folks whose plans didn't work out."
"So, you base your society on a notion that (most) think just like you."
"No. I base my ideal society on the notion that most people in it will share certain principles (pretty much the definition of a society)."
So, I threw these up together to see how they fared. Took out the everybody from my summary and substituted most, as that's more accurate - and it comes out the same as far as I can see. I'm not sure where the dispute is. To understand the same things is to think the same things is to share the same principles (thoughts).
To argue with a man who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead. - Thomas Paine The American Crisis
OONJERAH - We are too dumb to live and smart enough to wipe ourselves out.
"You, who live in any kind of comfort or convenience, do not know how these people can survive these things, do you? They will endure because there is no immediate escape from endurance. Some will die, the rest must live."
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I think the thing that Geezer fails to recognize is that people may simply not WANT the future he proposes. It's very possible that they understand the basis of his ideal society (I'm not sure I do... he's never been able to explain how it's supposed to work or even what it's supposed to achieve or what it's supposed to "look like" when it's done) but who the fuck wants a society of everyone against everyone, with all significant interactions reduced to property ownership and sales? It sounds like a fucking propertarian dystopian nightmare to me.
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And I see rappy hasn't responded to my post, and I bet he never answers the question. Or he'll come up with his infamous rappy-dodge, which he's had to resort to a half-dozen times recently- "I never said that".
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Siggy - let's be honest here, for a change.
1kiki said GREATEST govt control. To me, that implies govt all up in one's life, 24/7.
I do not hold to that , one bit.
Do you ?
However, LIMITED govt control does NOT mean ZERO govt.
How can you, and damn near everyone on the Left keep from making the same false premise that cutting back govt doesn't mean ELIMINATING it ? It's the perpetual false narrative the Left makes, that it's either " Julia's world ", or complete anarchy, and no where can there be anything in between ?
Our Founders had the right idea. LIMITED govt does not mean NO govt.
Are we at least clear on THIS issue ?
Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen
I'm just a red pill guy in a room full of blue pill addicts.
" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall
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"1kiki said GREATEST govt control. To me, that implies govt all up in one's life, 24/7."
No, WE have that, thanks to the NSA. That thing you so famously defended by saying if you have nothing to hide it shouldn't bother you.
Oh, here are some relevant quotes about your love of privacy and freedom from government:
"I think the Patriot Act was a needless expanse of US Gov't. True. But so far, it's not denied anyone their rights."
"Why is it when ever this President tries to do something which helps protect this country from a very real threat of ISLAMIC terrorism, a specific group of whiners tries to portray it as a fate worse than getting your head cut off ? Whether it's disrupting the financial transactions of terrorist groups, intercepting their phone calls or trying to get relevant information out of those who have sworn to murder as many innocent men/women and children as possible, some still see it as a violation of OUR rights that this Gov't should take steps to protect its citizens"
To argue with a man who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead. - Thomas Paine The American Crisis
OONJERAH - We are too dumb to live and smart enough to wipe ourselves out.
"You, who live in any kind of comfort or convenience, do not know how these people can survive these things, do you? They will endure because there is no immediate escape from endurance. Some will die, the rest must live."
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME