So, Geezer, rappy, in your ideal world, what should happen?
POSTED BY: 1kiki
UPDATED: Wednesday, March 26, 2025 17:09
VIEWED: 12173
PAGE 2 of 15
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:Quote:
Originally posted by kpo:Quote:
KPO - in the purest form, her care would be up to her family and or local community, church, what ever.
True. And lots of people (particularly in poor areas) would fall through the cracks, and none of that help would reach them, and they would be left to languish, and die.
It's not personal. It's just war.
That pretty much happens already.
" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall
But not enough. We need to be MORE libertarian!
It's not personal. It's just war.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by kpo:
But not enough. We need to be MORE libertarian!
See, I view those 2 comments to be contradictory.
A more libertarian society would be where everyone is taught to do for themselves, so as to be in a better position to help others, when certain situations arise.
It may sound counter intuitive to you, as though I think everyone needs to be more selfish, and greedy, but that's not it at all. People need to be more self aware, of the choices they make and the things they do. The fewer able bodied folks we have to take care of , those with more legitimate needs WON'T fall through the cracks.
Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen
I'm just a red pill guy in a room full of blue pill addicts.
" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
"A more libertarian society would be where everyone is taught to do for themselves ..."
Well, my first instinct is to poke that with a stick by rephrasing is as - WE NEED TO TEACH EVERYONE TO THINK FOR THEMSELVES!
Anyway, a society where everyone is taught to do for themselves would preclude hiring people for less than the full value of their work in order to make a profit - would it not? Making money off of other people's work strikes me as the ultimate parasitism.
In any case, just to let you know - care for even one permanently disabled person - child or adult - is beyond the resources of a single family. But you seem to think that social recognition of that is somehow fostering parasitism, in a way that profit from others' work is not. Anyway, I see the topic has lost its appeal. I was hoping to get your thoughtful appraisal of that kind of situation. Maybe next time.
To argue with a man who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead. - Thomas Paine The American Crisis
OONJERAH - We are too dumb to live and smart enough to wipe ourselves out.
"You, who live in any kind of comfort or convenience, do not know how these people can survive these things, do you? They will endure because there is no immediate escape from endurance. Some will die, the rest must live."
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
In my ultra-perfect world she would be cared for in a communal home with people like her with whom she could relate. Like a modern village. We've lost the sense of caring for each other that used to exist. My Dad is 91 and living on his own due to that mentality. We wanted him to be near us, but he doesn't like snow. The pioneer spirit is great, but it does have its limits.
On the other hand, online meet-up groups!
Get that lady a laptop!
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Interesting question.
I had to deal with something similar, since my mother had Alzheimer's for the last ten years of her life. She lived in Atlanta when it appeared, and we were in D.C. and both working full time.
Early on we were able to get by with having two ladies look out for her in her home - there 18 hours a day and preparing meals, taking her out to visit and to church, and helping her bathe, etc. so she could retain a semblance of her normal life. This ran us around $2,000 a month (in the early 90s), which was just about the amount of the pension she got from my father's work. After a couple of years, she started to get up at night and roam he neighborhood and was getting too confused for the ladies to deal with, so we knew that we had to get her into a more controlled situation.
We visited several assisted living facilities in Virginia, and chose the one that asked "What does she like to do?" rather than the ones that asked "Will she take directions?". This facility was running about $2,500 a month and eventually went up to $3,500 over time. Since my dad was a Civil Service employee in the time before they had to pay into Social Security or Medicaid, we got no assisted living benefits from them, so any costs over Mom's pension were out of pocket for us.
Fortunately, our workplace was close to Mom's home, so we could go over on our lunch hour and visit a good bit. For a while she knew who we were, but then started thinking I was my father, and eventually just didn't know us at all anymore.
The folks at the assisted living facility who took care of the residents' day-to-day needs were generally very good and patient, but there was a lot of turnover, since many couldn't stand the emotional toll of seeing folks they knew sort of disappear before their eyes. The ones that could stay and still maintain a caring attitude were really amazing.
Eventually Mom's body just shut down and, since she had a living will and a 'do not resuscitate' order, she died quietly in her bed.
So that's what happened in my real world, and I'd think it was about as ideal as could be expected, given the Alzheimer's.
"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
"A more libertarian society would be where everyone is taught to do for themselves ..."
Well, my first instinct is to poke that with a stick by rephrasing is as - WE NEED TO TEACH EVERYONE TO THINK FOR THEMSELVES!
You're pickin' nits now. Same coin, different sides. Before one can DO, they must THINK. One is no more exclusive than the other.
Quote:
Anyway, a society where everyone is taught to do for themselves would preclude hiring people for less than the full value of their work in order to make a profit - would it not? Making money off of other people's work strikes me as the ultimate parasitism.
Nah, it wouldn't. Work is a portion of an individuals life. Hence, time is money. And when it comes to WORK, those w/ more experience and education, generally speaking get more money ( Entertainers fall out of this model ) Not real sure what your point is in bringing up hiring anyone one for less than " full value " , how ever that's being determined. Seems unrelated to the issue.
Quote:
In any case, just to let you know - care for even one permanently disabled person - child or adult - is beyond the resources of a single family. But you seem to think that social recognition of that is somehow fostering parasitism, in a way that profit from others' work is not. Anyway, I see the topic has lost its appeal. I was hoping to get your thoughtful appraisal of that kind of situation. Maybe next time.
No idea where you get the idea of my views fostering parasitism. YOU brought that up, not I.
You got my answers.
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
I was hoping to get your thoughtful appraisal of that kind of situation. Maybe next time.
And this coming from the crazy bitch who has stalked every AURaptor post for months to assert that she doesn't give a shit is priceless. What a fucking psycho.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Geezer- Your mom had ideal care. She's lucky to have had a family who looked after her, and who were insightful and caring enough to find a living facility that was close by and attentive, and well-off enough to pay the eventual price tag. If there is a ideal arrangement for such a devastating condition, that would be it. You should be proud that you did so well. Chance and nature... they spit in the face of our plans.
But what about that lady that KIKI spoke to? It seems to me she lives a cramped life, subject to the whims of her (very elderly) mother... and that, after that, no support at all?
We tolerate caring for our young (although not so much anymore!) with the hope that they'll become productive members of society; that even if they don't take care of their parents directly they will fly and be free. But the demented and brain damaged and disabled... they represent a huge burden, both physical and emotional, with no hope of future productivity. Even if you worked a lifetime and raised a family and contributed to your church, does that pay for a decade of personal care? And some young people, of course, will never meaningfully contribute to society. What to do? It's a worry that I face as the parent of a brain-damaged child who will never, ever, be independent. And, if we're honest with ourselves, as we get older it's a situation we all may eventually face ourselves.
And, come of think of it... more and more children are being dx with autism. The risk is now something like 1 in 68. WE have all of those vets with PTSD and brain damage. And people who are living (their hearts are still beating) longer and longer.
I think this is a problem we will have to face socially as well as individually, because it's a problem that is getting bigger and bigger.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:You have my sympathy man. That's a rough way to have to say goodbye.
Originally posted by Geezer:
So that's what happened in my real world, and I'd think it was about as ideal as could be expected, given the Alzheimer's.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:I'm more than happy to discuss topics with anyone who's capable of intelligent and honest discussion. That excludes a lot of you. And, you must think I spend time tracking down rappy's posts. No, I just reply to whatever's up top and particular threads I'm interested in. I hope that clears up any confusion you may have given yourself.
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
I was hoping to get your thoughtful appraisal of that kind of situation. Maybe next time.
And this coming from the crazy bitch who has stalked every AURaptor post for months to assert that she doesn't give a shit is priceless. What a fucking psycho.
To argue with a man who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead. - Thomas Paine The American Crisis
OONJERAH - We are too dumb to live and smart enough to wipe ourselves out.
"You, who live in any kind of comfort or convenience, do not know how these people can survive these things, do you? They will endure because there is no immediate escape from endurance. Some will die, the rest must live."
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME