SECOND
POSTED BY: MIKER
UPDATED: Tuesday, September 1, 2026 04:26
VIEWED: 29874
PAGE 9 of 14
Quote:
Originally posted by MIKER:
I think Nadia's choice to stay goes to SECEONDS point that she maneuvered Mal into the fight instead of flight. I am assuming Inara was not going to run out on her friend. There for Mal stays.
I also think BYTEMITE you are correct that Mals staying insured a much better future for those left on the planet. Rance had to go.
Ooh, good points.
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BYTEMITE
Ooh, good points.
It's fun to remember and discuss. I have watched this stuff alone and had no one to share it with. I don't have friends who are fans.
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Quote:Mal does not need prescience to know that Rance, the sociopath and narcissist, will be leading a posse and showing off his shiny laser pistol to burn down the whorehouse. But Mal is too busy doing nothing that night; he will get around to Rance in the morning, too late for Nandi to live.
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:Quote:
The sooner Rance dies, the lower the body count, but Mal wouldn't do it until too late for Nandi.
Mal isn't prescient either. Nandi's death isn't the result of him deciding that he wanted a good fight and a high body count. It was a result of Nandi's own decision to not take Mal up on his offer to transport all of them off world. Without help, Rance was going to continue bullying them and probably eventually kill them all because that's just the kinda guy he was, and so Mal couldn't in good conscience just leave them to that.
If you think Mal being involved led to more death than if he wasn't involved, then you have one seriously twisted perception of his character. Nandi won him over because he could relate to her situation. He knows what it's like to have to fight for your home and your family against the aggression of others.
Mal has got to know Rance is so deranged he will never let his child be raised by Petaline at the whorehouse. Rance will be taking his heir back home. Rance has run his loud mouth to everyone about the child. He has to take the child. And Mal still waits for Rance to make the first move, giving Rance a tactical advantage. Mal can be thankful that Rance is overconfident, along with other faults. Otherwise, Rance would have won, Mal would die.
I got another example where Mal wasn't thinking ahead, but this time his lack of planning worked well. With Rance, Mal was being too slow to kill. With Jayne, he was being too quick. It almost looked like Mal planned Jayne's punishment, but he really only changed his mind on a whim. Mal dumps Jayne into the airlock in the episode Ariel. He certainly taught Jayne a lesson, except Mal's first intent had been to kill Jayne before the crew could stop him. Rance needed killing before he gathered a posse, not Jayne.
If Jayne had been too rattled to say the correct "last words", Mal would have killed him. Jayne had more good sense than Mal, which says Mal is in deep mental trouble.
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly
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Second, you sure do put a lot of time and effort into analyzing fictional characters. The only ones deserving of your criticisms are the writers.
wo men ren ran zai fei xing.
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Quote:The writers did a very good job. It is the audience that is not seeing Mal for who the writers made him. Maybe there needed to be a half hour show after each episode, like Talking Dead after Walking Dead, to explain it to the viewers, so they don't overly romanticize Mal. He is Jesse James, another romanticized outlaw, of the future. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesse_James
Originally posted by ecgordon:
Second, you sure do put a lot of time and effort into analyzing fictional characters. The only ones deserving of your criticisms are the writers.
Jesse James has museums and festivals named for him, just letting you know. Mal will get his.
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly
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Mal is not a hit man. All he could do as far as Ranse goes is prepare and wait. Ranse has to start the confrentation. When Mal shoots the operative in the movie, the operative had already threatened to blow Serenity out of the sky. That began the confrontation. With patenice in the movie, refusing to leave even after Mal gave her the money back means she to started the confrontation. Do you see a petteren here?
Jayne betrayed Mal and others in the crew. Jayne started the confrontation and Mal felt he could nolonger trust him. Jayne also knew to much to just kick lose. Mal decided to let Jayne live because he showed remorse and shame at what he did. This was when he asked Mal not to tell the others what he did, but instead to make something up.
If the winds blow north so does Mal. What you start, he will finnish.
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Quote:Mal did get paid to kill Rance, with Petaline pulling the trigger. Rance was killed execution style. It does look like a hit.
Originally posted by MIKER:
Mal is not a hit man.
Quote:Really? Only if Mal wants to appear "honorable" to a TV audience. I prefer him "honorable", but his honor costs other people their lives.
All he could do as far as Ranse goes is prepare and wait. Ranse has to start the confrentation.
Quote:It looked to me like Mal botched the killing of the Operative, which really wasn't smart for Mal to turn his back on an angry assassin.
When Mal shoots the operative in the movie, the operative had already threatened to blow Serenity out of the sky. That began the confrontation.
Quote:Do you remember Zoe reminding Mal of Patience's trustworthiness? It was food that these two were trading. If you've seen the recent comics where he is short of food, Mal should have saved that food and stayed far away from Patience. But no . . . he needs a confrontation to feel really alive. He is Jesse James of the future. By the way, Frank James, Jesse's brother, was smart enough to retire. Following James would get him killed. Following Mal will get Zoe killed. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_James#Outlaw_years_and_retirement
With patenice in the movie, refusing to leave even after Mal gave her the money back means she to started the confrontation. Do you see a petteren here?
Quote:Do you really think Jayne is trustworthy? In the most recent comic, Jayne is remorseful and shamed. He is still untrustworthy when he is not being closely supervised by Mal.
Jayne betrayed Mal and others in the crew. Jayne made the first move and Mal could nolonger trust him. Jayne also knew to much to just kick lose. Mal decided to let Jayne live because he showed remorse and shame at what he did. Jayne displayed this when he asked Mal not to tell the others what he did,but instead to make something up.
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly
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Quote:
But Mal is too busy doing nothing that night; he will get around to Rance in the morning, too late for Nandi to live.
Too busy doing nothing... while everyone else except the pregnancy team is SLEEPING because they want to be in top form for the fight tomorrow. How horrible that Mal is HUMAN just like everyone else around him, what a monster.
Quote:
It almost looked like Mal planned Jayne's punishment, but he really only changed his mind on a whim.
[....]
If Jayne had been too rattled to say the correct "last words", Mal would have killed him.
YEP. Because Jayne just betrayed them and demonstrated that he cared more about money than any of them OR ethics. Mal gave Jayne a second chance because Jayne indicated that he DID care about them after all.
It's official. There's no way you actually believe what you're saying. And if you do, it's not worth arguing with you because it would be impossible to change your mind.
Seriously, the hell with this. I am so tired of putting up with all the constant bickering. Now it's not even contained to the RWED, it's spilled out into Firefly itself. Whatever, see you all in another month when the next comic comes out and I get bored enough again.
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Quote:There is no bickering going on here. Roger Ebert used to go step by step through a movie, with an audience watching, stopping at each critical moment. Then he'd talk about what's happened. We need to do the same with Mal and Jayne in the airlock.
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:Quote:
But Mal is too busy doing nothing that night; he will get around to Rance in the morning, too late for Nandi to live.
Too busy doing nothing... while everyone else except the pregnancy team is SLEEPING because they want to be in top form for the fight tomorrow. How horrible that Mal is HUMAN just like everyone else around him, what a monster.Quote:
It almost looked like Mal planned Jayne's punishment, but he really only changed his mind on a whim.
[....]
If Jayne had been too rattled to say the correct "last words", Mal would have killed him.
YEP. Because Jayne just betrayed them and demonstrated that he cared more about money than any of them OR ethics. Mal gave Jayne a second chance because Jayne indicated that he DID care about them after all.
It's official. There's no way you actually believe what you're saying. And if you do, it's not worth arguing with you because it would be impossible to change your mind.
Seriously, the hell with this. I am so tired of putting up with all the constant bickering. Now it's not even contained to the RWED, it's spilled out into Firefly itself. Whatever, see you all in another month when the next comic comes out and I get bored enough again.
I'm not Ebert, but I can stop a video. When Jayne said, "Make something up," Jayne saved his own life. At that moment Mal changed his mind about killing Jayne. Mal is not the man to give careful thought about killing. There is something seriously wrong with that. Maybe Mal was just pretending to get a confession from Jayne. I think not.
MAL You called the Feds, didn't you?
With that, the fight goes out of Jayne. He knows he's busted. No use in lying to the captain. A long beat, then Jayne tries to explain himself.
JAYNE Money was too good to pass up.
MAL I should've shot you the second I found out what you did.
JAYNE That would've been the right thing.
Jayne takes a long moment, looking at the ramp. He really thinks he's going to die here.
JAYNE (cont'd) What are you gonna tell the others?
MAL About what?
JAYNE 'Bout why I'm dead.
MAL Hadn't thought about it.
JAYNE Do me a favor... (beat, genuine) Make something up. Don't tell them what I did.
The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly
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I will use one of your points SECOND to explain my thinking. Mal did not get paid to kill Ranse. All may have believed it would come to that but that was just the outcome. Remember Mal suggesting to Inare in her shuttle he was going to explain it to Ranse. Big difference. I think you may be missing the point of cause and effect in your observations.
Your post of the script is great. It is right there in black and white. Jayne betrayed the crew. Mal confronted him and when Jayne showed true remorse Mal gave him a second chance.(no pun intended).I think your explanations SECOND are perceptions; coming from reading into the minds of the characters, rather than observing any consistency in their behavior. I don't know but( Perhaps you ) SECOND are a conspiracist. What is the obvious never is and events have a much darker and confused meaning lurking beneath. Is that so?
When Mal suggests to Inara in Serenity the movie" your always twisting me about, foging things up". I can see you believing Inara playing a bigger role in Mals thinking than maybe she is. Maybe Mal is just suggesting to her she makes things more difficult.
That said, I haven't seen any insults flying around, but instead differing points of view. Their have been some good arugrements made. Still I don't see you SECOND coming to the tabe as far as agreeing on anything. That's OK.
While I like to discuss these types of things, I agree with BYTEMITE that if we can find no common ground maybe we should give it a rest.
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