Real World Event Discussions

Conservatives have no ideas what to do about recessions

POSTED BY: kpo
UPDATED: Monday, March 9, 2026 17:30
VIEWED: 29022
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KPO

Friday, January 10, 2014 11:11 PM

So Kaneman's back.

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Hey genius, "they believed those things in 2004 and 2008". Were they in a position of power on a federal level to act? No. Kaneman 1 KPO 0

I think you missed the point of the article.

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Now, take a look at the states run by conservatives and compare them to liberal run states in respect to getting out of recession and good fiscal standing.

Interesting point, and I think I see what study you're talking about... not really what this thread's about. Maybe start a new thread for that topic?

It's not personal. It's just war.

GEEZER

Saturday, January 11, 2014 8:42 PM

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Originally posted by kpo:
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I mean the ones in the article.

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To be clear, conservatives absolutely do have an economic policy agenda...

But you asked specifically about conservative responses to recession - not general conservative economic policy.

Once again, I cite the article you posted.
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They often cite these policies as ones that might alleviate recession and speed recovery. They favor these policies now, they favored them in 2008, and they favored them in 2004.

I sense the beginnings of a bob and weave on your part, since you can obviously read both your article and the descriptions of liberal and conservative policy I listed above.

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Interesting that your article didn't mention the tax cuts in the ARRA stimulus.

Neither did you, or any of the other conservatives here. the way I see it, if a group of conservatives when challenged couldn't name that particular conservative policy idea, then a liberal(?) journalist can be forgiven not for thinking of it.

When they're writing an article specifically to define recent liberal responses to recession? Blow some more smoke.

"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

GEEZER

Saturday, January 11, 2014 8:51 PM

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Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Per you, conservatives have a "passive policy". We're taking your seriously. You should be grateful.

Why, how condescending of you.

Per the article, conservatives believe their general economic policy of "...lower taxes, less regulation, government spending cuts, more domestic energy production, school choice*, free trade, and low inflation." will work recession or no. It is 'passive' in that it does not prescribe and change in policy during a recession, expecting that existing policy will succeed in ending the recession.

(*Not quite sure why the authors if the article threw 'school choice' into economic policy either.)

"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

GEEZER

Saturday, January 11, 2014 8:56 PM

And speaking of ending recessions.

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Ready for a shocker?

A Washington Post-ABC poll from December 19, 2013 shows that – get this – a staggering 79% of people still believe we’re in a recession.

So either they didn’t get the memo from the NBER that the recession officially ended in June 2009, or they’re clueless, right?

Maybe not…

This chart of corporate profits versus median household incomes reveals two shockingly different economic realities.

http://www.wallstreetdaily.com/2014/01/10/recession/

"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

M52NICKERSON

Saturday, January 11, 2014 10:20 PM

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Originally posted by Geezer:
Per the article, conservatives believe their general economic policy of "...lower taxes, less regulation, government spending cuts, more domestic energy production, school choice*, free trade, and low inflation." will work recession or no. It is 'passive' in that it does not prescribe and change in policy during a recession, expecting that existing policy will succeed in ending the recession.

Which proves the whole point of the thread, conservatives have no idea what to do. Using the same policies you used before a recession started to get you out of one is like burning yourself and expecting the fire to heal your hand if you stick it back in.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

GEEZER

Saturday, January 11, 2014 11:02 PM

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Originally posted by m52nickerson:
Which proves the whole point of the thread, conservatives have no idea what to do. Using the same policies you used before a recession started to get you out of one is like burning yourself and expecting the fire to heal your hand if you stick it back in.

Conservatives believe that the market will self-correct and end recession with no intervention by the government, especially not the massive liberal intervention described in the article.

To meet your analogy with analogy, they believe that if you burn your hand in a fire, you should let the fire go out, not throw more wood on it.

"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

M52NICKERSON

Sunday, January 12, 2014 7:49 PM

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Originally posted by Geezer:
Conservatives believe that the market will self-correct and end recession with no intervention by the government, especially not the massive liberal intervention described in the article.

Here is the thing, Conservative say they think thing will self correct but while in power have never once done it. Each time they have used some type of stimulus...just as Keynes calls for. Tax cuts are stimulus, massive spending on military, stimulus.

They also advocate for cutting government spending, which depresses the economy and is also intervention.

So Conservatives say they know what to do, never do that, but try and do things that work against each other. In other words they have no idea what they are doing.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

KPO

Sunday, January 12, 2014 8:22 PM

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I sense the beginnings of a bob and weave on your part, since you can obviously read both your article and the descriptions of liberal and conservative policy I listed above.

You keep directing me to the article for my definition of conservative 'response to recession', seemingly missing the fact that the whole point of the article (and its title!) is that conservatives have no specific response to recession - their economic policy is the same, whatever the economy is doing. So your phrasing of the question is perverse.

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They favor these policies now, they favored them in 2008, and they favored them in 2004.

There was no recession in 2004. Did you miss that point?

Ok. Now let's talk about the conservative economic policy agenda, in particular, when its implemented during times of recession.

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To be clear, conservatives absolutely do have an economic policy agenda. They favor...

1. Government spending cuts

I've already shown, and to anyone who's had their eyes open over the past few years it should be obvious, that spending cuts in a depressed economy HURTS growth.

2. Less regulation

If we're talking about loosening of banking regulations, these might boost economic activity a little in the short term, but what about the medium, and long term? The biggest effect of this kind of policy is to speed along the NEXT recession. If we're talking about other regulations like environmental regulations, then we're moving out of purely economic considerations. The question is not 'will this policy create growth', it's 'is the growth that this policy will create worth raping the environment for?'

3. More domestic energy production

See what I just answered to (2).

4. school choice

I don't know much about the claimed economic merits of this, but it seems clear to me it will have little effect on the economy in the short term - so is not an answer to recession.

5. Free trade

I support free trade, as do a lot of people on the left (including the president). Not really a uniquely 'conservative' policy, and its benefits are more in the medium to long term. Good economic policy in my view, but not a great answer to recession.

6. Low inflation.

From what I've seen deflationary policies HURT economic growth in the short term, like Thatcher in the early 1980s: the UK economy tanked, unemployment soared, and industrial output was so devastated that large parts of Britain have never recovered. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Premiership_of_Margaret_Thatcher#Deflatio
nary_strategy

But I'm open to counter-evidence.

7. Lower taxes

I've saved this till last, as it's probably the best case conservative policy has for stimulating the economy in the short term. One of the key questions is how it is financed. By matching spending cuts? Because we've seen that this hurts the economy, and might outdo the stimulus effect of the tax cuts. The alternative is deficit-financed tax cuts. This is like a conservative answer to Keynesianism, and was done by Bush in 2002 and was also a significant part of the ARRA. The question is whether it's as effective as deficit spending. Here's an analysis:

And this article might be a good thing for you to read Geezer: http://www.economist.com/blogs/democracyinamerica/2010/02/stimulus_and
_jobs_bills

So all in all with conservative economic policy we have ideas that hurt the economy in the short term, ideas that may help, but not in the short term, ideas that may help but at the expense of other things, and tax cuts which work in the short term, but not as well as Keynesian spending.

It's not personal. It's just war.

GEEZER

Sunday, January 12, 2014 10:37 PM

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Originally posted by kpo:
You keep directing me to the article for my definition of conservative 'response to recession', seemingly missing the fact that the whole point of the article (and its title!) is that conservatives have no specific response to recession - their economic policy is the same, whatever the economy is doing. So your phrasing of the question is perverse.

Yep. Bob and weave.

All you have to do is prove that the liberal cures for recession, as enumerated in the article you cited, actually work more effectively to end recessions than the conservative economic policy the article lists (aside from 'school choice'. I have no idea why the authors of your article put that in).

ETA: I'd note that all recessions end, so proving they all end because of the liberal cure will be interesting.

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They favor these policies now, they favored them in 2008, and they favored them in 2004.

There was no recession in 2004. Did you miss that point?

I got the point, stated in the article, that "They (conservatives) often cite these policies as ones that might alleviate recession and speed recovery". Mention of 2004 and 2008 would seem to indicate they favored these policies in their 2004 and 2008 election cycle platforms.

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1. Government spending cuts

I've already shown, and to anyone who's had their eyes open over the past few years it should be obvious, that spending cuts in a depressed economy HURTS growth.

Spending was cut pretty much every year in the 1920s, and the two small recessions in that decade ended pretty quickly.

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2. Less regulation

If we're talking about loosening of banking regulations, these might boost economic activity a little in the short term, but what about the medium, and long term? The biggest effect of this kind of policy is to speed along the NEXT recession. If we're talking about other regulations like environmental regulations, then we're moving out of purely economic considerations. The question is not 'will this policy create growth', it's 'is the growth that this policy will create worth raping the environment for?'

You really should ask the author of your article, he's the one who stated 'less regulation' without defining it. I'd guess less paperwork required of business by the government.

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3. More domestic energy production

See what I just answered to (2).

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4. school choice

I don't know much about the claimed economic merits of this, but it seems clear to me it will have little effect on the economy in the short term - so is not an answer to recession.

I'm also curious as to why the author of your article threw this in. It does make me wonder about his economic knowledge chops.

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5. Free trade

I support free trade, as do a lot of people on the left (including the president). Not really a uniquely 'conservative' policy, and its benefits are more in the medium to long term. Good economic policy in my view, but not a great answer to recession.

You should talk to SignyM about the Trans-Pacific Partnership.

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6. Low inflation.

From what I've seen deflationary policies HURT economic growth in the short term, like Thatcher in the early 1980s: the UK economy tanked, unemployment soared, and industrial output was so devastated that large parts of Britain have never recovered. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Premiership_of_Margaret_Thatcher#Deflatio
nary_strategy

As noted in the wiki article, she also raised taxes in the middle of the recession, thereby lengthening it.

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7. Lower taxes

I've saved this till last, as it's probably the best case conservative policy has for stimulating the economy in the short term. One of the key questions is how it is financed. By matching spending cuts? Because we've seen

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SIGNYM

Monday, January 13, 2014 12:44 AM

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ETA: I'd note that all recessions end, so proving they all end because of the liberal cure will be interesting.

There WMD in Iraq! There were!

Geezer, channeling rappy much?

This is where it pays to look at the data with some kind of hypothesis in mind, and understanding that there are lags between when a policy is implemented and when it takes effect. For example, Bush very specifically grew the wealth gap from the time he got into office, but it took 8 years to crash the economy.

The thing that frightened Keynes was that the Great Depression showed no signs of ending. That was the basis of Keynesian insight: That an economy can stabilize at a very much lower rate of activity, permanently. (The basic supply-demand curve assumes that the economy is functioning at 100%)

So, shall we walk into the weeds of the data together? It WILL require that you put forth some opinions, and reach actual conclusions.... something you seem loathe to do.