Season 4 opinions?

POSTED BY: RhymePhile
UPDATED: Saturday, June 25, 2005 17:25
VIEWED: 21761
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AMNESIAC

Saturday, October 2, 2004 11:21 AM

In order to accept the really weird twists and turns of season 4 of angel, I just started thinking of them as ingredients to the spell jasmine needed to cast to come into existence. The power to take over the world with a smile (literally) must take allot of doing. So the blotting out the sun, and the rain of fire were to Jasmine to take over the world, as hornwort, and sage are to Willow for one of her wonky locator spells.

CAPTAINCDC

Saturday, October 2, 2004 3:25 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by JenDandy:
Hmmm...

Just jumping in here, been reading some of this thread (it's very long!) and some theories you all have about S4 are pretty enlightening, as I found a lot of it to be confusing as heck.

I've got much love for this season. Jasmine was a cool concept but a little bit 'talky' and that got old sometimes. Cordy was one of the worst Big Bads ever and she and Conner getting it on was weird and wrong. I also found it to be a tad melodramatic at times (Salvage is one I can remember in particular...the scene where Wes gets Faith out of prison). But for all it's imperfectness it was cool and big and arc-y and stylish.

But hey now...has this been asked before? What's with the maggots and rotting Jasmine flesh? Is it because she's really old? LOL I don't get it!!
And if Angel had to actually look at Jasmine (Fred too!) to see her 'true' face, then why did the rest of them only need their blood to be mixed with Cordy's to figure out what she was? As far as I know, Gunn, Wes, and Lorne never got to see Jasmine, so how did they just know?

Sig Rebel

There was a mental connection between Jasmine and her followers, like a tether. When Fred was exposed to Jasmine's blood, unbeknownst to her, she started to get very emotional. She thought she was upset because of the shirt or that it was her fault that Jasmine got hurt in the first place. She knew that she missed Jasmine when she was not around, but thought that was it. She just needed to be around Jasmine again so that she can go back to feeling like her old Fred self. But, she was wrong, the uneasy feeling Fred had been experiencing was due to the fact that the spell Jasmine had over her was broken. When Angel was exposed to Jasmine's blood in the book store, Jasmine was there. All he had to do was look at her. I think if she had not been there then it would have been pretty much like it was with Fred for Angel (maybe without all the crying). As for the others, Jasmine said that everyday her strength grows as does her connection with her followers. By the time Angel and Fred got around to saving the rest of the gang, I think Jasmine's connection had grown to the point that once it is broken, it is obvious. I think if the rest of the gang had the spell broken earlier when they were alone and Jasmine was not around, then they would have had the same reaction as Fred. It all had to do with the presence of Jasmine and the strength of her mental connection.

May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.

JENDANDY

Sunday, October 3, 2004 1:44 AM

Ahhh, thanks so much! I get it now.
Either I need to watch Angel more (and in order...never seen it in order) or you people are just really, really smart - maybe both? Cus you come up with things I would have never considered.

Sig Rebel

CAPTAINCDC

Monday, October 4, 2004 4:17 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by JenDandy:
Ahhh, thanks so much! I get it now.
Either I need to watch Angel more (and in order...never seen it in order) or you people are just really, really smart - maybe both? Cus you come up with things I would have never considered.

Sig Rebel

I think watching the eps in order would be your best bet. With the heavily serialized nature of seasons 3 & 4, if you miss one ep it can make a lot of things not make sense. Some would say even if you watch all of them in order they still do not make sense, I would not be one of those people. And if you don't watch buffy, start.

May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.

BIKISDAD

Tuesday, October 12, 2004 7:43 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by RhymePhile:
Quote:
Originally posted by Grounded:
It's quite clear the birth of Jasmine was the plan all along (I'm pretty sure this has been mentioned in interviews) but what exactly was the point of all the Beast/blotted-Sun stuff then?

Exactly! It didn't make sense then, and even after reading about the season it still doesn't make sense. The Big Evil couldn't have known the gang would bring Angelus back/through/awake, so it wouldn't have sent the Beast just for that.

I was also thinking that perhaps the Beast was sent as something to keep Angel & Co. occupied so that Connor and Cordelia could get together. But then the fact that it wanted Angelus to team up with it makes no sense.

Blotting out the sun obviously has its advantages by allowing the vampires and demons to roam free, but that wouldn't tie in with the whole point of introducing Jasmine.

I dunno, it still doesn't make sense.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
All of me is beautiful and valuable, even the ugly, stupid, and disgusting parts.

It actually does make sense and Jasmine gives the explanation herself, although not explicitly. Jasmine's plan is to wipe out all evil on earth (other than herself, if you consider her to be evil). That's why she has The Beast destroy W&H and blot out the sun. The sun blotting was done deliberately to draw demons to L.A. so that Jasmine could have her followers (primarily Angel Investigations) destroy them - that part she does state explicitly.

Apathy on the Rise. No One Cares.

GROUNDED

Tuesday, October 12, 2004 9:43 PM

...which makes no sense because we see that she can take people over through by being seen on TV. If she's going to take over all the people of the world, she doesn't need to draw evil to LA. If anything she risked hampering her own creation by blotting out the Sun...

IDEFIX

Wednesday, October 13, 2004 5:38 AM

maybe she's a stupid bitch with bad tactics.

Idefix

DIETCOKE

Wednesday, October 27, 2004 1:47 AM

Hi Rhyme!

I liked the fact that I didn't know where they were going with Jasmine...I love surprises.... And can I just say that Angelus is one of the most evil villians, ever? I love that fact that he is all into emotional pain and hitting on people's fears and doubts. What could be more evil?

The only thing that bothered me about the season was Connor. He was just annoying for me. Kinda like Dawn was for most of Buffy.

Wesley really came into his own this year. A very talented man.

GROUNDED

Wednesday, October 27, 2004 10:26 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by dietcoke:
And can I just say that Angelus is one of the most evil villians, ever? I love that fact that he is all into emotional pain and hitting on people's fears and doubts. What could be more evil?

Indeed, Angelus is a great villain. However I don't think they quite captured him right in S4. He was far too blunt.

CRAZYDOG7

Saturday, November 27, 2004 6:03 AM

Oh and the quote from season 2...

"Tell yeah what let me tourture you for a few unbearably long hours and find out if this is the lifestyle for you"

Isn't blunt?

Hell the first episode and the Angelus in control episodes are the only reason I ever
watch Season 4.

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