Season 4 opinions?
POSTED BY: RhymePhile
UPDATED: Saturday, June 25, 2005 17:25
VIEWED: 21761
PAGE 5 of 10
I see what you mean. Another of my problems with Angel S4 and later seasons of Buffy is that everything revolves around the gang. Like 80% of S4 Angel is set inside the hotel - the outside word doesn't enroach very often and I think the show suffers for it. It's good to see characters interacting with new people, even if for short periods. By forcing all your prinicipals into close proximity for long periods it becomes hard to do anything new with them.
As for those I felt were out of character:
Angel
Angelus
Connor
Cordelia (even if she was possessed or whatever)
Faith
and, to a lesser extent, Gunn and Fred, although that was more a continuation of out of character behaviour from the end of S3.
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Ah ha! I knew the plot had to have been a last minute change. Cordy being pregnant made them change it. Problem solved. I just couldn't accept that the total disconnect in the season was planned all along. It puts my mind at ease to know that the writers didn't fail us. They were forced into a corner and that's the best they could throw out there.
I could really see the season being cool though if Cordy and the beast or maybe Cordy and Angelus were teamed up as the big bad in the end....that would have been really cool. Jasmine just didn't do it for me. Maybe she would have if the season had been leading up to her. But that season was all about a big bad showdown. Not a friendly happy fantasy illusionist.
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I think Jasmine is a better idea anyway (even if they 'created' her poorly). Something a bit more original. The Beast was a hopeless villain and the Angelus dialogue for S4 was utterly tragic.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Zeek:
Ah ha! I knew the plot had to have been a last minute change. Cordy being pregnant made them change it. Problem solved. I just couldn't accept that the total disconnect in the season was planned all along. It puts my mind at ease to know that the writers didn't fail us. They were forced into a corner and that's the best they could throw out there.
I could really see the season being cool though if Cordy and the beast or maybe Cordy and Angelus were teamed up as the big bad in the end....that would have been really cool. Jasmine just didn't do it for me. Maybe she would have if the season had been leading up to her. But that season was all about a big bad showdown. Not a friendly happy fantasy illusionist.
I don't know how much they changed as to the plot of the season. Deknight said that the overall arc was set in the beginning, once they found out Charisma was pregnant they just had to come up with something (Jasmine) to take it the few extra steps since Charisma was having a baby. Toward the end of Charisma's run in S4, she was only working like 6 hour days and her due date was rapidly approaching. Cordy was going to be the big bad for the entire season instead of 3/4 of it. I think it was going to be something that she picked up as a higher being, maybe that it went to her head that she was in fact A Higher Being. So there was probably a lot that stayed the same. I mean to say that there may not have been a radical difference in the season if she had not been pregnant. Deknight talked like the major things that had an effect on breaking the season was Charisma's pregnancy and the WB's scheduling. I love S4 just the way it is, might it have been better if Charisma had not gotten pregnant at that time, we will never know, but I'm happy with what we got.
May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Grounded:
I think Jasmine is a better idea anyway (even if they 'created' her poorly). Something a bit more original. The Beast was a hopeless villain and the Angelus dialogue for S4 was utterly tragic.
As to Angelus's dialogue, Amy Acker said that Boreanaz improvised a lot during those scenes. That might explain it, but it didn't really bother me.
May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Grounded:
I see what you mean. Another of my problems with Angel S4 and later seasons of Buffy is that everything revolves around the gang. Like 80% of S4 Angel is set inside the hotel - the outside word doesn't enroach very often and I think the show suffers for it. It's good to see characters interacting with new people, even if for short periods. By forcing all your prinicipals into close proximity for long periods it becomes hard to do anything new with them.
As for those I felt were out of character:
Angel
Angelus
Connor
Cordelia (even if she was possessed or whatever)
Faith
and, to a lesser extent, Gunn and Fred, although that was more a continuation of out of character behaviour from the end of S3.
Well the only people you left out are Wes and Lorne so I guess you thought they were all right. Which is cool with me, cause Wes is one of my all time favorite characters. My love for Angel the Series is due in no small part to the character of Wesley. He evolved so much in those last three seasons. Which is part of the reason why the last three seasons are my favorites of the series.
May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.
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it would be nice to know if they changed the story or if they just changed the people.
I'd like to think they had the Jasmin story planned but it was supposed to be Cordelia that brought all the love and mindcontrol to LA and the rest of the world. with this glowing power thing she did since she was part demon. she did pretty much the same thing Jasmin did to everyone to Connor, when he attacked her when he was first back from Quor'Toth (sp?).
if they came up with the mindcontrol thing just because Carisma was pregnant than I'm very happy she was. I wouldn't want to have missed that shiver down my spine. Jasmin really scared me and I'm not that easily scared.
but I seem to be the only one who thought it very brilliant to first have this dumb, strong, indestructible, one-dimensional, totally uninteresting bad guy in form of the beast and than reveal that it was just a distraction for everyone to make them more easily mindcontrolled into being happy zombies under the thumb of an old god/demon whatever kind of higher being planning on toying with our world for a while.
I think it way planned as 'Jasmin' being the demon inserted into Cordy when she had the problems with the visions and her ascention being this demon manifesting somehow and her being back and commanding the beast as his master the plan to distract everyone and make the world dark and uninviting and everyone ready to be rescued by this demon inside Cordy that really only wanted to rule the world by taking everyones will away. it was a bout a 'higher being' playing with its power over humans. kinda like Q on Star Tek, only with the love and mind control vibe instead of the bad practical jokes.
other opinions?
Idefix
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CaptainCDC: Yes, Wes and Lorne survive relatively unscathed ;)
Quote:
Originally posted by Idefix:
I think it way planned as 'Jasmin' being the demon inserted into Cordy when she had the problems with the visions and her ascention being this demon manifesting somehow and her being back and commanding the beast as his master the plan to distract everyone and make the world dark and uninviting and everyone ready to be rescued by this demon inside Cordy that really only wanted to rule the world by taking everyones will away. it was a bout a 'higher being' playing with its power over humans. kinda like Q on Star Tek, only with the love and mind control vibe instead of the bad practical jokes.
other opinions?
The whole distraction idea doesn't really fit. After Cordy has 'got what she wanted' from Connor, all she has to do is leave town and wait for Jasmine to be born. It's established later on that all you have to do is look at Jasmine to fall under her spell - whether the world is dark and uninviting or not.
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I agree that the distraction idea just doesn't flow. There were plenty of ways to avoid Angel's team's interferance. Heck Cordy could have just asked Conner to kill all of them. He would have done it easy. Or just leave town with Conner like was suggested.
I wish Charisma hadn't gotten pregnant though. Then we could have avoided the weird sex scene with Cordy and Conner. That was just disturbing.
I was never afraid of Jasmine at all though. Maybe when she went nuts after her little glammer was broken but before that she seemed about as powerful as Amy turning herself into a rat in Buffy. It had been well established that love spells were pretty easy to cast in Buffy. That's all Jasmine ever seemed to pull off just on a wide scale. The big bad could have been Xander at that point. And it all just seemed like a matter of time before the group found some little trick to finish everything.
The beast was scary to me. He always seemed to be one step ahead of the gang. The fight scene before the rain of fire was probably my favorite from all of the Buffyverse. Angel's team really threw everything they had at him and the beast took them out. If only Joss had the beast kill one of our beloved heroes off could that have been any better. It would have left the team down and out...with their backs to the wall. Those are the times when everyone really shines.
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Whoo hoo! Apocalypse, Now fight scene! I agree, Zeek, it was one of, if not the best fight scenes in the entire Buffyverse. The special effects, Wes with the twin .45s (or 9mms, I watched it a few days ago but didn't look close enough) and the shotgun, and then the whole stake in the neck for Angel. And the blood! Wicked cool.
And Grounded, I'd be interested to know why you thought only Wes and Lorne were in character this season. I'm more interested in Wes though, since his character went through so many ups and downs. And I dig him. 
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