So what's shut down for you?
POSTED BY: Geezer
UPDATED: Thursday, October 10, 2013 23:48
VIEWED: 10984
PAGE 8 of 13
Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:Quote:Precisely. You can articulate the situation so much better than I, Niki.
Originally posted by Niki2:
In other words, they're trying to fund things one at a time, FOR VISIBILITY, and Obama AND THE SENATE are not willing to play that game.
Wrong. They're trying to fund things individually for the good of the nation, for the PEOPLE. It's Obama and the Left who have stated that they want to cause as much pain as possible.
Just like Harry Reid said, when asked if he'd help kids dying of cancer...
" Why would we want to do that ? "
ABC, NBC Ignore Harry Reid’s “Why Would We Want To Do That?” Cancer and Kids Comment
http://www.lifenews.com/2013/10/04/abc-nbc-ignore-harry-reids-why-woul
d-we-want-to-do-that-cancer-and-kids-comment/
Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen
Resident USA Freedom Fundie
" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall
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Quote:25 closing that are true, 25 reasons that are false. I'll give you a 50%.
Originally posted by AURaptor:
The closings are as reported.
Happy?
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Quote:Once again 'cause you seemed to have missed it, you can't throw a gas grenade into a building and then whine that no one's helping you bring some gas masks in for the women & children- that's beyond stupid.
Originally posted by AURaptor:
[Wrong. They're trying to fund things individually for the good of the nation, for the PEOPLE.
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Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:Quote:25 closing that are true, 25 reasons that are false. I'll give you a 50%.
Originally posted by AURaptor:
The closings are as reported.
Happy?
No. Not happy.
But happier.
Still not sure how you only credit BR for being 1/2 right. Closures ultimately come form the WH. That's not a matter for debate. Parks Service is under OMB,which is under the Executive branch. Obama is at the top of the Executive Branch.
De-staffing open air monuments ? Fine go ahead. Putting up barricades ? That's entirely an overt decision made to inflict pain and put on a visible display, for the public. THAT comes from Barry's direction.
Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen
Resident USA Freedom Fundie
" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall
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Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:Quote:Once again 'cause you seemed to have missed it, you can't throw a gas grenade into a building and then whine that no one's helping you bring some gas masks in for the women & children- that's beyond stupid.
Originally posted by AURaptor:
[Wrong. They're trying to fund things individually for the good of the nation, for the PEOPLE.
Actually, you can. If you want to adhere to that false, lame analogy. Better to offer some help than to let them die.
Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen
Resident USA Freedom Fundie
" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall
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Regarding the open-air monuments: Is it the President's responsibility to open or "close" said monuments? Isn't that the province of Congress? or am I mistaken?
By the way, did the House now also takeover, as part of the Shutdown, Fingerpointing? I just want to know, for future reference.
SGG
Quote:
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:Quote:
It's a free standing, open air monument. It's not a " business". We're not talking about a museum, or even a park, which has a turnstile or doors to lock up at night. It's open, 24/7.
Open air monuments charge admission fees and are therefore a business, and open air businesses are still subject to the same risks and limitations as all other businesses.
Unless instead of closing the monument, you would have preferred it to remain open and get graffiti within 24 hours because no one is on the payroll to patrol it. I hear the punks on the national mall like green.
You have to make sure other people don't wreck the joint. If you can't pay anyone to make sure of that, you close the business to protect the stuff.
They're just lucky they got volunteers who stepped up to protect the monument so it could stay open.
Frankly, I don't care one way or another. All these marble pats on the back in the capital at the expense of tax payers kinda stick in my craw. But I figured maybe YOU did seeing as you're raising a fuss about it.
Previous shutdowns for example like 1995 were technically only partial shutdowns, as some of the departments had received funding prior to very similar disagreements about funding of medicare and education between Republican congress wanting to slow spending and a Democratic president with social welfare programs. There was almost NO funding approved this year before October 1st, therefore the shutdown was more extensive.
Lastly, the determination of which employees are "nonessential" is done by the Office of Management and Budget, which is run by Sylvia Mathews Burwell, who is on Obama's cabinet, but I really doubt that Obama looked twice at whatever she recommended before signing it. List of designated nonessential employees from every county and regional diversion of government offices in every state, sounds like thrilling reading material.
You can't paint Obama as being inept but then also have him be some kind of manipulative mastermind giggling over park closures for political spin.
I agree Obama's inept, I disagree that he closed the parks for political points. Since when has he ever been that savvy?
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Quote:In the brief Columbus Day shutdown of 1990, George H.W. Bush shut down Washington's monuments and museums, too.
Originally posted by AURaptor:
De-staffing open air monuments ? Fine go ahead. Putting up barricades ? That's entirely an overt decision made to inflict pain and put on a visible display, for the public. THAT comes from Barry's direction.
http://theweek.com/article/index/250498/is-it-really-necessary-to-shut
-down-all-the-monuments-in-washington
Turns out it's got precedent. Plus the usual legal bs- some one falls & no government people there to assist & it's sue city.
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Quote:The point sir is that the grenade should not have been thrown in the first place.;)
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Better to offer some help than to let them die.
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Hey Niki,
It seems to me that the House (actually those that brought this foolishness about) are caving in bit by bit as the political realities and consequences of the Shutdown emerge.
People must realize that the truth eventually will come out. Every time someone says that the president is responsible, the House puts forth a CR to fund that particular aspect of the government that's been affected. That tells you right there where the true responsibility lies. If the president were truly responsible, wouldn't he continue the Lockout?
The House Republicans are looking sillier and sillier with each passing day.
Boehner says he's outraged at the administration claiming "winning" in this stalemate (and rightfully so, that was a stupid comment to make), but so to is Rand Paul suggesting to McConnell that they are "winning." It is one-upmanship at it's ugliest.
Meanwhile real people suffer. Well, I say watch out in the fall elections, gerrymandering or no, people are fed up.
SGG
Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
Byte has an excellent grasp of the situation, I'm impressed! And she's right, on virtually every point. Rap can deny it, but yes, the government would be legally liable, and the Park Rangers ARE there voluntarily, doing their jobs without pay, and the fact that there's graffiti when people are on duty has nothing to do with how much MORE there would be if nobody were around. Throwing a hissy fit and saying things aren't true doesn't make it so; what Byte elucidated is exactly how it is.
America and our economy HAS been hurt by the sequestration, and by this current mess, and a LOT of individual people are suffering--especially if they don't get back pay after this is all over (which thought horrifies me).
We don't hear about it because bad news is bad for the market and the media/government don't want us paying a lot of attention, but it's there, it's been there and it's bad:
"GOLDMAN SACHS: The Economic Damage From The Sequester Is Becoming More Clear, And It Could Get Worse", http://www.businessinsider.com/sequester-finally-hurting-2013-9#ixzz2g
tZyBO3j
"Sequestration Will Prevent Creation Of Up To 1.6 Million Jobs In Next Year, CBO Concludes", http://www.chicagodefender.com/index.php/business/21605-seuestration-1
-6-million-jobs-next-year-cbo
"Yes, the Sequester Is Affecting the Job Market", http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/07/05/yes-the-sequester-is-affe
cting-the-job-market/?_r=0
"New FBI Director James B. Comey stunned by impact of sequestration on agents in the field", http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2013-09-27/world/42459536_1_comey-b
udget-cuts-fbi-agents-association
Just because it's not "in your face" every day doesn't mean it's not happening; it is and this is making it worse. Which, unfortunately, is just jim dandy with the right, because they don't WANT the country to recover (at least until they're in power), it makes Obama/Dems look good; anyone who hasn't figured that out hasn't been paying attention. Remember how very, very long it took me to finally accept that the Republicans were quite happy to do thing which would make the country WORSE in hopes it would put them in power. Even I had to finally acknowledge the truth. But as long as there's Obama to blame, our righties will do as they're told and blame him.
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This is getting stupid. OBAMA DIDN'T SHUT DOWN ANYTHING. CONGRESS DIDN'T PASS A BUDGET, that's what LEGALLY caused the shutdown. Here's a list of what's shut down and who's responsible for it, Obama didn't say "shut it down", the LAW did. That is the result of refusing to pass a budget, pure and simple; the law goes into effect. How any times do we have to say it?
http://www.cnn.com/interactive/2013/09/politics/government-shutdown-im
pact/
Just a sample, running down the list:
"The independent agency's 30 employees are prohibited from working during a shutdown"
"Within one hour of learning about a shutdown, the director of the Office of Administration sends an e-mail advisory to all the staff"
"processing of requests for new licenses, label approval and manufacture of nonbeverage products ceases"
"All sites worldwide are closed to the public"
"No federal employees can investigate industrial chemical spills/accidents that happen during the shutdown. Current investigations are frozen"
"All employees will continue to work until funds are exhausted"
"During a shutdown, all FCC activities other than those immediately necessary for the protection of life or property must cease."
"All Commission activities must completely shut down by 12:00 p.m. ET Tuesday"
"All employees shall be furloughed except those performing work to address a threat to human life or property; those involved in the orderly shutdown of agency operations; and those otherwise allowed by operation of law. "
"(IRS) All the following cease in a shutdown: All audit functions; examination of returns and processing of nonelectronic tax returns that do not include remittances; nonautomated collections; legal counsel; taxpayer services such as responding to taxpayer questions (call sites); information systems functions (except as necessary to prevent loss of data in process); all planning, research, and training and development activities."
and on and on. Obama has NOTHING to do with it, it's the LAW. That Rap refuses to acknowledge that doesn't make it not so, he's just going to go right on blathering idiocy as long as people keep trying to get through to him.
To FORCE all this TO SHUT DOWN BY LAW (and the list is loooong!) because they DEMAND that Obamacare be "delayed" (which is bullshit and we know it), despite the fact that the ACA IS the law, not passing a budget won't kill it, and it has been adjudicated so by the Supreme Court, then get together and play childish games about passing little individual bills to open this or that thing back up individually AND lie blatantly by saying "OBAMA shut down...", is insane, period.
Enough already.
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