So what's shut down for you?
POSTED BY: Geezer
UPDATED: Thursday, October 10, 2013 23:48
VIEWED: 10984
PAGE 6 of 13
Byte has an excellent grasp of the situation, I'm impressed! And she's right, on virtually every point. Rap can deny it, but yes, the government would be legally liable, and the Park Rangers ARE there voluntarily, doing their jobs without pay, and the fact that there's graffiti when people are on duty has nothing to do with how much MORE there would be if nobody were around. Throwing a hissy fit and saying things aren't true doesn't make it so; what Byte elucidated is exactly how it is.
America and our economy HAS been hurt by the sequestration, and by this current mess, and a LOT of individual people are suffering--especially if they don't get back pay after this is all over (which thought horrifies me).
We don't hear about it because bad news is bad for the market and the media/government don't want us paying a lot of attention, but it's there, it's been there and it's bad:
"GOLDMAN SACHS: The Economic Damage From The Sequester Is Becoming More Clear, And It Could Get Worse", http://www.businessinsider.com/sequester-finally-hurting-2013-9#ixzz2g
tZyBO3j
"Sequestration Will Prevent Creation Of Up To 1.6 Million Jobs In Next Year, CBO Concludes", http://www.chicagodefender.com/index.php/business/21605-seuestration-1
-6-million-jobs-next-year-cbo
"Yes, the Sequester Is Affecting the Job Market", http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/07/05/yes-the-sequester-is-affe
cting-the-job-market/?_r=0
"New FBI Director James B. Comey stunned by impact of sequestration on agents in the field", http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2013-09-27/world/42459536_1_comey-b
udget-cuts-fbi-agents-association
Just because it's not "in your face" every day doesn't mean it's not happening; it is and this is making it worse. Which, unfortunately, is just jim dandy with the right, because they don't WANT the country to recover (at least until they're in power), it makes Obama/Dems look good; anyone who hasn't figured that out hasn't been paying attention. Remember how very, very long it took me to finally accept that the Republicans were quite happy to do thing which would make the country WORSE in hopes it would put them in power. Even I had to finally acknowledge the truth. But as long as there's Obama to blame, our righties will do as they're told and blame him.
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No, they don't.
The WW2 veterans memorial doesn't, but a number of them DO. Parks-wise Yellowstone and Byrce come to mind in my immediate neighborhood. National Monuments like Devil's Tower do as well. And the national parks service does act like a business.
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There were no " volunteers " . No idea what you're even talking about.
http://www.wral.com/furloughed-workers-volunteer-during-shutdown/12951
310/
There were also some rangers who tried to volunteer at the parks they worked at to keep the parks open. I don't know if they're still doing that though.
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Already happened to the Lincoln Memorial, not too long ago. The "workers " were on the job then, too. So much for that.
Yes, that's what I was alluding to. They messed up then, but the point is, that's what the workers are supposed to be there for. If they can't be there for whatever reason, then the monuments are at risk. There's also liability concerns.
So if businesses can't be serviced by employees because no employees are available, the business is closed.
It's one thing to say that Obama's administration is responsible for the situation, and that their efforts to keep the ACA on the books has directly resulted in the pushback which caused the furlough and closures. But you have to connect ALL those dots to be accurate according to that point of view. Saying that Obama himself personally closed the parks out of spite is shaky argument ground to stand on.
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Quote:
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
Open air monuments charge admission fees and are therefore a business, and open air businesses are still subject to the same risks and limitations as all other businesses.
Unless instead of closing the monument, you would have preferred it to remain open and get graffiti within 24 hours because no one is on the payroll to patrol it. I hear the punks on the national mall like green.
Being right here near D.C. I can tell you that pretty much all of the National Monuments closed here do not charge any admission. And the green paint on the statues of both Lincoln and Mr. Henry (along with parts of the National Cathedral (not government affiliated, BTW)) was the work of one crazy person.
It's also been interesting that the Park Service has closed parking lots along the George Washington Parkway between the Capitol Beltway and Mount Vernon due to the shutdown, but strangely still has enough staff to give parking tickets to folks who park in them.
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Lastly, the determination of which employees are "nonessential" is done by the Office of Management and Budget, which is run by Sylvia Mathews Burwell, who is on Obama's cabinet, but I really doubt that Obama looked twice at whatever she recommended before signing it. List of designated nonessential employees from every county and regional diversion of government offices in every state, sounds like thrilling reading material.
You can't paint Obama as being inept but then also have him be some kind of manipulative mastermind giggling over park closures for political spin.
I agree Obama's inept, I disagree that he closed the parks for political points. Since when has he ever been that savvy?
All the Administration has to do is "suggest" to the various government functions that fall under the Executive Branch (which is most of them) that they should make their most public and newsworthy functions "non-essential". Niether Obama, nor the Democratic leadership, has to get down to the detail level.
"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."
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Quote:The spice must flow.
Originally posted by Geezer:
but strangely still has enough staff to give parking tickets to folks who park in them.
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BYTE - I already addressed all that early on, and made CLEAR distinction between museums and the the likes of Yellostone and open monuments like the WW 2 Memorial. Just stop it.
Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen
Resident USA Freedom Fundie
" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall
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Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Barricades were meant to be circumvented.
Huh?
Umm.... then why waste time, $ and effort putting them there in the first place ?
Oh, I know. Great photo op for our dear leader.
Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen
Resident USA Freedom Fundie
" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall
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And now a new "interpretation" of the law allows the Defense Department to bring back all its employees, and the House just voted unanimously to pay furloughed Federal workers.
Since they're gonna pay them, why not put them back to work?
It's all just political theater, from both sides.
"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."
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"The spice must flow" --hee, hee, hee, got it.
"It's all just political theater, from both sides" --of course it is, now it's happened! To expect otherwise would be to expect the Dems to be naive idiots, because it's been "political theater" since the Repubs STARTED it!
"the House just voted unanimously to pay furloughed Federal workers" --oh, thank goodness. I can't imagine suddenly being told "go home, we're not going to pay you for a while, dunno how long"...those poor families!
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C'mon Niki, you know the Left LOVES the theatre more than those on the Right.
Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen
Resident USA Freedom Fundie
" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall
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*UPDATED* THE LIST: UNNECESSARILY SHUT DOWN BY OBAMA TO INFLICT PUBLIC PAIN
While our president still enjoys his essential employees and locations: the White House chefs, Camp David, and a military golf course, there doesn't seem to be any question that in mercenary pursuit of a political win, this White House is determined to unreasonably punish as many everyday people as possible. And this includes children sick with cancer. That might sound like hyperbole, but it is not.
1. Treatments for Children Suffering From Cancer - The GOP have agreed to a compromise by funding part of the government, including the National Institutes of Health, which offers children with cancer last-chance experimental treatment. Obama has threatened to veto this funding.
2. The World War II Memorial - The WWII memorial on the DC Mall is a 24/7 open-air memorial that is not regularly staffed. Although the White House must have known that WWII veterans in their eighties and nineties had already booked flights to visit this memorial, the White House still found the resources to spitefully barricade the attraction.
The Republican National Committee has offered to cover any costs required to keep the memorial open. The White House refused. Moreover, like the NIH, the GOP will pass a compromise bill that would fund America's national parks. Obama has threatened to veto that bill.
3. Furloughed Military Chaplains Not Allowed to Work for Free - Furloughed military chaplains willing to celebrate Mass and baptisms for free have been told they will be punished for doing so.
4. Business Stops In Florida Keys - Although the GOP have agreed to compromise in the ongoing budget stalemate and fund the parks, Obama has threatened to veto that funding. As a result, small businesses, hunters, and commercial fisherman can't practice their trade. While the feds have deemed the personnel necessary to keep this area open "non-essential," the "enforcement officers" to ensure no business is done are "essential."
5. Obama Blacks Out Sports, Entertainment Programming to Overseas Troops - The American Forces Network (AFN) that provides American sports and entertainment programming to our troops stationed abroad, has been shut down. For some reason, though, AFN News will still broadcast news, just not any of the popular and fun stuff.
Camp David is essential, but popular programming for heroes overseas is non-essential.
6. Obama Closes D-Day Memorial - The GOP have offered to compromise and fund the National Parks. Obama has said he will veto this compromise legislation. As a result, along with 24 other military cemeteries, the D-Day memorial in Normandy has been barricaded.
7. Obama Tries to Close Privately-Funded Mt. Vernon - Although George Washington's Mt. Vernon estate is privately funded, the feds blocked visitors from entering the parking area because the Park Service maintains the lot. Apparently, the New Media publicity resulted in the feds backing down.
8. Obama Closes Over 100 Privately-Managed Parks That Cost No Money to Run - The U.S. Treasury actually makes money from the rent paid by a private company that "employs about 400-500 camp workers and managers across about a dozen states." No federal money is used to operate these parks. No federal employees are used to staff these parks. Taxpayers make a profit from these parks. Still, Obama had them closed and as a result 400-500 employees and a private business are taking it in the neck.
9. Obama Closes Self-Sustaining Colonial Farm It Hasn’t Supported Since 1980 - "For the first time in 40 years, the National Park Service (NPS) has finally succeeded in closing the Farm down to the public. In previous budget dramas, the Farm has always been exempted since the NPS provides no staff or resources to operate the Farm.”
10. Obama Tries to Close State-Run Parks in Wisconsin - "The park service ordered state officials to close the northern unit of the Kettle Moraine, Devil's Lake, and Interstate state parks a
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