So what's shut down for you?
POSTED BY: Geezer
UPDATED: Thursday, October 10, 2013 23:48
VIEWED: 10984
PAGE 5 of 13
Quote:Yep. Thanks for the reality check, Signy.
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
just think of rappy as a jihadist or a young creationist and let it go at that.
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Yup, Chris, he gotcha. I'm not going back to count, what, three or four times you got sucked into responding? My sympathies. I agree with Chris, Sig; you nailed it.
My sympathies also on what the shutdown has caused you and your company; a prime example of how it's harming our country. The blow to the economy will be another, which of course will tickle them pink because they'll spin it to blame THAT on Obama, and if they keep it up and do their job, that's how history will remember it. Works for them, you betcha!
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Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Obama did this. THIS meaning closing off the WW2 Memorial ( as well as other selective acts ) purely for punishment and PR purposes.
There is Z E R O room for debate on the matter.
They were closed because the workers at the parks were basically told to go home because there's no pay. You can't keep a business open under those circumstances.
This is cause and effect. Some of the rangers at various parks have shown up as volunteers, as have the secret service, and the WW2 memorial was opened because some vets and wives of vets showed up and whoever was there that day closing the memorial felt sorry for them. Then it got attention and the rest of the workers showed up also as volunteers to try to keep it open.
If you want to say that the reason there's no pay is Obama's fault, or that it's his responsibility because he's the president and the vice president seems to be useless as an influence in congress, okay, you're entitled to that, but saying that closing the parks was like a personal choice on the part of the president is not an argument that makes sense.
It happened as a direct result of there being no budget. When a budget agreement couldn't be reached, no one had any choice but to close the parks because we have no means to pay to maintain them or the workers at the parks.
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Succinctly and accurately put, Byte. I don't know who decides what stays open and what closes when there's a government shutdown, but aside from politics, it seems logical that tourist attractions wouldn't be high on the "necessary" list. Unfortunately a LOT of people are getting caught in the middle, which is sad.
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Quote:
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Obama did this. THIS meaning closing off the WW2 Memorial ( as well as other selective acts ) purely for punishment and PR purposes.
There is Z E R O room for debate on the matter.
They were closed because the workers at the parks were basically told to go home because there's no pay. You can't keep a business open under those circumstances.
Told to go home, by the White House. Right.
It's a free standing, open air monument. It's not a " business". We're not talking about a museum, or even a park, which has a turnstile or doors to lock up at night. It's open, 24/7.
And barricading these monuments... never happened before, in all the 16 other times the govt has shut down.
Also, it costs the govt MORE $ to hire guards and rent blockades. But this admin wants as many visible signs of the govt 'closing down', as possible, and to inflict as much pain on the public. Screw the Vets. They're dying anyways, what does Obama care ?
He doesn't.
Quote:
This is cause and effect. Some of the rangers at various parks have shown up as volunteers, as have the secret service, and the WW2 memorial was opened because some vets and wives of vets showed up and whoever was there that day closing the memorial felt sorry for them. Then it got attention and the rest of the workers showed up also as volunteers to try to keep it open.
Only they tried to double down and make the barriers harder to get into, by wiring the barricades together the next day. It was thanks to the likes of Senator Bachmann and Jay Sekulow who are raising awareness about this travesty of keeping 90+ year old Vets out of THEIR memorial.
Quote:
If you want to say that the reason there's no pay is Obama's fault, or that it's his responsibility because he's the president and the vice president seems to be useless as an influence in congress, okay, you're entitled to that, but saying that closing the parks was like a personal choice on the part of the president is not an argument that makes sense.
Actually, it's not an argument at all. It's the truth. Even if you lay the blame at the feet of BOTH parties, which I have to admit most Americans seem to be doing, the specific choices of closing open air monuments like the WW2 Memorial is entirely Obama's.
Quote:
It happened as a direct result of there being no budget. When a budget agreement couldn't be reached, no one had any choice but to close the parks because we have no means to pay to maintain them or the workers at the parks.
In some cases, sure. But not this one. Not most, in fact.
Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen
Resident USA Freedom Fundie
" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall
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Quote:
It's a free standing, open air monument. It's not a " business". We're not talking about a museum, or even a park, which has a turnstile or doors to lock up at night. It's open, 24/7.
Open air monuments charge admission fees and are therefore a business, and open air businesses are still subject to the same risks and limitations as all other businesses.
Unless instead of closing the monument, you would have preferred it to remain open and get graffiti within 24 hours because no one is on the payroll to patrol it. I hear the punks on the national mall like green.
You have to make sure other people don't wreck the joint. If you can't pay anyone to make sure of that, you close the business to protect the stuff.
They're just lucky they got volunteers who stepped up to protect the monument so it could stay open.
Frankly, I don't care one way or another. All these marble pats on the back in the capital at the expense of tax payers kinda stick in my craw. But I figured maybe YOU did seeing as you're raising a fuss about it.
Previous shutdowns for example like 1995 were technically only partial shutdowns, as some of the departments had received funding prior to very similar disagreements about funding of medicare and education between Republican congress wanting to slow spending and a Democratic president with social welfare programs. There was almost NO funding approved this year before October 1st, therefore the shutdown was more extensive.
Lastly, the determination of which employees are "nonessential" is done by the Office of Management and Budget, which is run by Sylvia Mathews Burwell, who is on Obama's cabinet, but I really doubt that Obama looked twice at whatever she recommended before signing it. List of designated nonessential employees from every county and regional diversion of government offices in every state, sounds like thrilling reading material.
You can't paint Obama as being inept but then also have him be some kind of manipulative mastermind giggling over park closures for political spin.
I agree Obama's inept, I disagree that he closed the parks for political points. Since when has he ever been that savvy?
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Quote:
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:Quote:
It's a free standing, open air monument. It's not a " business". We're not talking about a museum, or even a park, which has a turnstile or doors to lock up at night. It's open, 24/7.
Open air monuments charge admission fees and are therefore a business, and open air businesses are still subject to the same risks and limitations as all other businesses.
No, they don't.
Quote:
Unless instead of closing the monument, you would have preferred it to remain open and get graffiti within 24 hours because no one is on the payroll to patrol it. I hear the punks on the national mall like green.
Already happened to the Lincoln Memorial, not too long ago. The "workers " were on the job then, too. So much for that.
Quote:
You have to make sure other people don't wreck the joint. If you can't pay anyone to make sure of that, you close the business to protect the stuff.
They're just lucky they got volunteers who stepped up to protect the monument so it could stay open.
There were no " volunteers " . No idea what you're even talking about. The PAID rent-a-cops were put there, by Obama, to keep people OUT.
Quote:
You can't paint Obama as being inept but then also have him be some kind of manipulative mastermind giggling over park closures for political spin.
I agree Obama's inept, I disagree that he closed the parks for political points. Since when has he ever been that savvy?
Can and do, for the reasons already stated. Same reason he closed the WH tours, for " sequestration ", as he's doing this too. To inflict pain on the public, closing the most visible , high profile things possible, to try to win the PR game. He's losing badly on the WW 2 Memorial , and folks are starting to wake up.
Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen
Resident USA Freedom Fundie
" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall
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I don't get it. Why is ANYTHING still working at all? There should be riots N' looting already! Mass hysteria! Cats and dogs living together!
This is NOT a proper government shutdown IMO!
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Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
I don't get it. Why is ANYTHING still working at all? There should be riots N' looting already! Mass hysteria! Cats and dogs living together!
This is NOT a proper government shutdown IMO!
Remember the hysteria that Obama would have us believe faced us, due to sequestration ? The horror tales and drag on the economy ? And then more of the same w/ the shut down ?
Seems folks aren't missing the Gov'ment as much as Barry would want. So he pulls stunts like closing open air monuments, and such.
Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen
Resident USA Freedom Fundie
" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall
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Barricades were meant to be circumvented.
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