Stealth Health - for Siggy!
POSTED BY: FREMDFIRMA
UPDATED: Thursday, September 19, 2024 18:05
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Thanx anyway, Kiki. Like I wrote, that's not a debate I want to start here, this thread. We've already done it in another thread, if I remember. I know I've heard some, pro and con.
Not sure where I stand on the entire GMO question. Mrs. BC follows it, but we buy what we can afford and I eat what turns up on the plate she puts in front on me.
Last I heard, like 80 % of grain grown is GMO, which makes arguing about it pretty well moot, tilting at windmills.
And like I wrote above, to me it's a pretty fine line between selective breeding, which has been going on forever, right?; vs genetic manipulation. I'm not really even a student of biology, let alone a PhD in it, so I don't consider myself qualified to make a judgement on the subject.
But thanks for the offer of info.
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Personally I'd prefer lab and food to be as far apart as possible. 'Leave my food alone' will be my catch cry as I descend into old age. I don't want anything added, taken out or messed with. If I choose to eat meat, I want it to come from an animal that has walked in the sunshine, led a reasonable life and died humanely as close as possible to the field in which it lived. If I can't handle that idea that I'm eating something that was alive, I'll stick to veggies and legumes, thanks very much.
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Quote:
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
I do find it a little disconcerting that people could raise animals from birth to death always knowing in the back of their minds that they're going to slaughter them for meat.
I don't actually understand how people can do that. I mean cows are cute and have obvious individual emotional characteristics and traits. How could you raise them and not think of them like a pet?
I grew up in rural Northern California, went to high school with some 4-H type guys and gals. Nice people. I watched quite a few of them buy a lamb or calf or piglet, cheap, then raise it 'till full grown, enter it in the local fair, win a ribbon for it, then sell it to a slaughter-house. It's a business deal, a low-intensity way to make some money, build a stake to make a start in life.
For them, it was never an emotional or moral issue. Their choice.
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I've grew up in rural Idaho, and right now live in Salt Lake City Utah which shares a lot of the same culture. I go to State and County fairs because I like to see the animals. I've seen the 4-H people do exactly as you say.
I still do not understand it.
The problem is these are the exact same people who would probably tie their dogs outside to a tree in a thunderstorm. They don't even think about animals deserving the same considerations that a human might deserve. And yet being insensitive about a practice that is unethical and harmful to another living creature really isn't an excuse. It is still immoral even if they don't realize it.
Thing is, immorality and questionable cultural practices are not a measure of whether someone is a likeable or trustworthy person. But that doesn't mean those cultural practices aren't wrong. You can't stop people from the choices they make or how they've been raised, but you CAN talk to them about trying to change the way things are.
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"But creating meat without the whole animal is a step towards a Star Trek future of plenty for all ..."
I'm with you on that one - if I thought we knew what we were doing. But I don't think we do.
We've evolved under an exquisitely detailed environment. For our health, nothing more, and nothing less, will do. As an example of how little we truly know - until just a few years ago, nobody thought we needed omega-3 fats. To this day the USDA doesn't list them as essential: http://fnic.nal.usda.gov/dietary-guidance/dietary-reference-intakes/dr
i-tables. But if you talk to neurochemists they will tell you we need 1 - 3 GRAMS per day for normal brain function.
We are still learning about our own biochemistry. And if we don't know what we need, how can we reproduce it?
"... without the need for death!"
I hope you'll answer this question: are you theologically opposed to a cat eating a carnivorous diet? And if not cats - why humans?
If you look at human dietary requirements, we need taurine - only found in fish. B12 - only found in consumers of specific bacteria and algae. Vitamin C - only found in plants. We are - as I phrase it - obligate omnivores. That's how nature made us. I don't see the need for shame or blame about it.
Perhaps you can explain to me the basis of your objection to eating meat.
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"Thanx anyway, Kiki. Like I wrote, that's not a debate I want to start here, this thread."
You're welcome. FWIW I was extremely blase about the whole GMO thing until I started looking into it over the last few months. I found myself changing my mind under the accumulation of data, and the large amount of uncertainty that the patent-holders REFUSE to allow to be studied.
"Last I heard, like 80 % of grain grown is GMO ..." That's true of corn (88% in 2012) and soybeans (94% in 2012), but not wheat. http://phys.org/news/2013-06-gmo-corn-soybeans-dominate.html GMO wheat has never been approved for planting in the US.
ETA: "... it's a pretty fine line between selective breeding, which has been going on forever, right?; vs genetic manipulation."
The process of inserting genes from one organism to another is distinct from selective breeding. The 'donor' organism has their DNA broken up into fragments. Those fragments are literally blown into the recipient organism, where some random bits of the DNA is wedged into the DNA of the recipient. WIKI "To do this artificially may require ... just physically inserting the extra DNA into the nucleus of the intended host with a very small syringe, or with very small particles fired from a gene gun." These altered cells are then grown on agar plates (the same way bacteria can be grown). This process is so disruptive to the function of the cells only about 50% even survive. Those that survive are tested for the trait being looked for: for RoundUp ready plants, RoundUp is directly added to the agar and the plants that don't have the trait die early on. For the Bt toxin, a subset of the cells is collected and chemically analyzed for the toxin.
The plants that eventually make it out into the field are tested for gross food composition: protein, carbohydrate and fat, to see if it's comparable with the non-GMO version. Plants which have an additional trait inserted - like Bt toxin - are tested to insure that the level is deemed safe.
But these plants have their own DNA disrupted - protein-coding DNA is separated from controlling DNA. And other unknown genes get inserted in the GMO process.
So, that's the basic difference between selective breeding and GMO plant creation.
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Makes me wonder if I am better or worse for knowing the ethical implications to a detail most folk never even concieve and still choosing to eat the critters in question...
But them imma lot more cycle-of-life about it, cause some day after my ashes feed the worms, soil and grass, their ancestors will effectively be eating ME, so it's all good, innit ?
On the whole GMO bent, it's more the lack of proper and adequate testing, crummy piss poor so-called-science, and a severe dearth of credibility and honesty on behalf of a FORMER BIOWEAPONS MANUFACTURER, who is engaging in behavior not only fundamentally destructive to farming as a whole, but has the avowed potential to irreperably wreck out ecosystem - what HAPPENS when plants don't drop new seed ? why, no more plants!
Run out of seed, lose the ability to create more, any number of scenarios, and kapoof, mass starvation and disaster - and mind you this is in the hands of a company KNOWN for unethical behavior to a degree which'd make Joseph Mengele cringe in horror.
I am not against the concepts, but I sure as hell *AM* against Monsanto having anydamnthing to do with it.
-F
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Quote:
I hope you'll answer this question: are you theologically opposed to a cat eating a carnivorous diet? And if not cats - why humans?
Sort of, yes, and there have been non-carnivorous dietary plans suggested for cats, though I am uncertain how nutritious or successful they are.
But more than that... Humans can CHOOSE. Cats can't.
Sentience carries with it certain burdens and responsibilities. If we hold that it is evil to kill another human, then we must hold that it is also evil to kill other lifeforms. Same is true if we have an objection to killing and eating other humans.
Even experimenting with bacteria or human tissues is technically wrong in this way - though I'm not saying we shouldn't do that. My concept of morality is somewhat to quite a bit more flexible than most of you - I merely acknowledge that EVERYTHING we do is evil, just some of it happens to be considered more acceptable than others.
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Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
GMO wheat has never been approved for planting in the US.
Not that this would stop em, especially if they could deliberately cross contaminate nearby fields and sue them out of business.
-F
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Quote:
On the whole GMO bent, it's more the lack of proper and adequate testing, crummy piss poor so-called-science, and a severe dearth of credibility and honesty on behalf of a FORMER BIOWEAPONS MANUFACTURER, who is engaging in behavior not only fundamentally destructive to farming as a whole, but has the avowed potential to irreperably wreck out ecosystem - what HAPPENS when plants don't drop new seed ? why, no more plants!
Run out of seed, lose the ability to create more, any number of scenarios, and kapoof, mass starvation and disaster - and mind you this is in the hands of a company KNOWN for unethical behavior to a degree which'd make Joseph Mengele cringe in horror.
Agreed. This is a major concern right now with GMO.
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