What's the deal with KPO?

POSTED BY: HKCavalier
UPDATED: Friday, June 7, 2013 19:26
VIEWED: 22000
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NIKI2

Tuesday, June 4, 2013 3:42 PM

I guess for me it's much simpler. We only know one another via written words on a forum; given it's the only way we can communicate, what upset me was having someone called a rapist. Whatever he may or may not deserve (which I don't think is up to us to judge anyway), I would have an equal reaction to anyone here giving him a NAME such as "Prick" or giving a female here a name such as "Cunt" and referring to them that way. It's not about rape, genocide, or what Rap deserves, it's about NAMING someone such a thing. Which no doubt lets me out of the "argument", because you guys seems to be fighting about whether rape, genocide, whatever, not the giving of a name.

I would actually react far less if someone said "Rap, by your words, you're a damned rapist!" I would disagree and think it wrong, but there's so much hurled left and right here that's inaccurate and unfair, eh... But to start REFERRING to someone as "Rapey" is inexcusable, in my book.

And maybe it's an okay thing if you DO kill the thread, Sig. Nobody seems to be able to get through to you, and to me your thinking seems SO cemented on one point that nobody's ever going to get you past it. Not to mention that the subject of the thread itself has long since been left behind.

BYTEMITE

Tuesday, June 4, 2013 3:49 PM

Quote:
What is the difference between a Ponzi scheme operator and a banker?

This is either the set up for an amusing anti-banker joke, an orphaned punchline, or an interesting philosophical inquiry.

On the surface level, bankers give out money for investments that will never work instead of take money for investments that will never work. However, the 2008 mad scrambling of bankers to get their money back or borrow money to make up for defaulted loans when the money simply was never there in the first place does bear some similarity to a ponzi scheme. The end result is that their irresponsibility crashed the global economy.

I don't see where this ties into the discussion at hand, though. The questionable business practice of some bankers seems like a different animal than whether all bankers are guilty of or enable /support ponzi schemes, or whether someone voting criminals into office makes the voter party to their crimes.

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In any case, Auraptor, by demanding that all Muslims be killed, can be considered to be engaged in hate speech, which IS a crime.

I've heard Auraptor say some pretty bad things about Muslims and call it a religion of violence, as a justification for the wars we've been having. But that is not the same thing as calling for all Muslims to be killed, or arrested, or deported.

Moreover, in order to qualify as hate speech, it has to pose an imminent danger or threat of unlawful action. I don't really anticipate anyone taking immediate action to destroy all Muslims on Auraptor's say-so, nor that he has the intent to incite anyone to immediate action on this front, let alone that he might believe he could.

Lastly, hate speech is a hate crime, which can include instances of murder, but hate speech doesn't become murder until Auraptor pulls the trigger.

BYTEMITE

Tuesday, June 4, 2013 3:58 PM

Quote:
I guess for me it's much simpler. We only know one another via written words on a forum; given it's the only way we can communicate, what upset me was having someone called a rapist. Whatever he may or may not deserve (which I don't think is up to us to judge anyway), I would have an equal reaction to anyone here giving him a NAME such as "Prick" or giving a female here a name such as "Cunt" and referring to them that way. It's not about rape, genocide, or what Rap deserves, it's about NAMING someone such a thing.

Oh, believe me, it's about this for me too. But I'm trying to provide the logical argument for WHY this would be wrong, because Sig asked me to provide one.

MAL4PREZ

Tuesday, June 4, 2013 9:34 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Well, MAL4, this is an entirely different discussion, and one that I invited several times. NOW you want to change the discussion??? Fine!

Hunh? What did you invite? And what am I changing? I have very clearly stated several times my point: to equate Rappy with a rapist is incorrect. Did you think I was saying something else? Could you please explain what you thought was going on here? Also, please show the quotes where you thought I was having some other discussion, because you've just gotten really confusing.

Quote:
Quote:
Sig, the thing I will never understand is how you can say someone deserves to be called something which they are not. Does not compute.
It doesn't compute because I didn't say it.

Pardon?

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Quote:
USING RAPE AS AN AD HOMINEM WHY ARGHABLE You're all better than this!
Is rape worse than torture? Rappy deserves it, Byte, and more.

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
MAL4- You have yet to explain to me WHY you were so horrified when I equated genocide-promoting rappy with a rapist.

????

If you didn't really mean that Rappy deserves to called a rapist, fine. Just clarify and it's all good. But you can't defend your claim but also say you never made it.

Does. Not. Compute.

So could you clarify: what is your stance here?

1. You never equated Rappy with a rapist

2. You did and the term fits.

Quote:
What if I has said- of a big Ponzi scheme operator, for example- He deserves to be called a robber, or worse. Now, robbery is a violent crime, embezzling not so much. But an embezzler can do far more damage to far more people than a simple robber. In this less emotional setting, does this still seem uninterpretable?

Not so much. The word "robber" is commonly used with a range of meanings, including non-violent theft.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/robber

1. ( tr ) to take something from (someone) illegally, as by force or threat of violence

2. to plunder (a house, shop, etc)

3. ( tr ) to deprive unjustly: to be robbed of an opportunity

Ponzi scheme operators have indeed stolen. They consciously choose to steal and did it for their own benefit. I would call them robbers. ie robber-barons.

Rappy, or anyone who has ever voted Republican or even had a dumb-ass wrong understanding of global politics that led them to argue for stupid things, has not committed rape. Throwing the term rapist at them is unjust, and makes you look worse than it does them.

And now I'm right back where I started this whole dance with you, and it seems no progress has been made.

But, to step outside this thing a little and go back to this whole Jongstraw/KPO thread issue: having this debate with you is *interesting*. There is substance here. (Despite my earlier doubts, I haven't had to go into ignore mode.) We may never agree and may even be a little upset with each other, but good lord isn't it nice to have some real discussion to sink your teeth into?

An exchange like this hasn't happened with Rap or Jong or Geezer for long long long long long long long time.

SIGNYM

Thursday, June 6, 2013 3:51 AM

I guess I though the issue was that I called rappy a "rapist". I didn't. What I said was that he "was as bad as, or worse than". In other words, I didn't definitionally say rappy = rapist.

Is rappy as bad as a rapist? Rape is a personally-committed violent crime. Standing on the sidelines cheering rape... as bad as being a rapist? Standing on the sidlines and cheering murder? Cheering murder that is far away? Cheering on the murder of many more than one person? I dunno... what do YOU think?

This goes back to shared responsibility. I suppose, if I were mathematical about it and said that murder was ... picking a number... 1000 times worse than rape. If 100,000 people were killed, that would be like a billion people being raped. But then, rappy is only partly responsible... assuming the responsibility is divided up equally among all people who voted for Bush in 2000, roughly 50 million people, that would be like each voter being responsible for about 20 rapes. So just putting this in context, maybe.

NIKI- you are very sensitive to words related to sexual violence, apparently. I'll keep that in mind.

BYTEMITE

Thursday, June 6, 2013 4:17 AM

Quote:

NIKI- you are very sensitive to words related to sexual violence, apparently. I'll keep that in mind.

>_>

Is... Is anyone here not? It's kind of a troubling issue in general I thought.

Murder is pretty bad, but rape is often something a person has to LIVE with. Horrifying. I really can't think of much worse that one person can do to another person. Logically I know there's plenty worse, but rape is kinda always at the top of that list anyway.

1KIKI

Thursday, June 6, 2013 5:01 AM

AHEM!

For the 4.5th time - I was the one who called little rappy little rapey.

It was in reference to a comment he made below a picture of Jessica Alba that he posted back when, when that was a thing he did.

So, since I think my postings went under the radar because they were too short and people overlooked them, I'm bulking up this post with quotes and colors and lots of space:

http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=55161&mid=9
39048

Sunday, June 02, 2013 6:59 AM

Just want to briefly reply - I'm not sure why SignyM gets tagged with this, since it's moi.

http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=55161&mid=9
39289

Sunday, June 02, 2013 7:49 AM

I lit the (m)atch then walked away, I think.

http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?bid=18&tid=55141&mid=93872
1#938721

Friday, May 31, 2013 8:55 PM

YOOHOO! FOLKS!

I didn't have time to read all the posts but that 'little rapey' name was one I gave. So I'm not sure why SignyM is being tagged with it.

It had to do with a comment he made under a picture he posted of Jessica Alba some time back.

SIGNYM

Thursday, June 6, 2013 5:49 AM

BYTE- I guess I'm not particularly. Seeing Hearts and Minds made far-away suffering and death very real. Having our daughter almost die, and imagining my feelings of helpless grief being felt by others ... it's just hard for me to imagine anything worse. Rape is something we all (mostly) can imagine, or have experienced, or know somebody who's experienced it. (unfortunately) Genocide, slaughter, war... it happens far away, to people who don't look like us. It's much harder for us to imagine those events, so it's just not as immediate. We can't put ourselves in those shoes as easily (fortunately for us). So maybe it's just me.

KIKI- HAHAHA!!! Hey, I appreciate you trying to correct the record, but... I stick by what I said anyway, so I guess I 'own' the statement.

NIKI2

Thursday, June 6, 2013 3:14 PM

Quote:
NIKI- you are very sensitive to words related to sexual violence, apparently. I'll keep that in mind.

What Byte said. Aside from that, yours is a pretty silly comment, in my opinion. I would be equally offended by people giving someone an equally-offensive moniker that has nothing to do with sexual violence...it shouldn't be hard to imagine quite a few. I am no more "sensitive" to words (you used the plural; would you like to cite "the others"?) related to sexual violence than many others...it was Byte who first got very upset by the usage, I merely responded to the debate.

All I've said is that, as far as I'm concerned, turning someone's name into something like "Rapey" is inappropriate in the extreme; what possible defense could there BE for creating a name such as that on a conversational forum board?? The names people come up with are quite bad enough, don't you think? Or maybe you don't, I don't know, but to say I'M "very sensitive" is kind of funny, if not disproportionate.

All this has me wondering if something else is going on; respectfully, you seem kind of "head up" about a number of things recently, Sig. I mean no offense, it's just that your posts seem somewhat more, I guess "aggressive" is the closest I can come, than I'm accustomed to, nothing more.

SIGNYM

Thursday, June 6, 2013 3:50 PM

NIKI- I don't understand your response, or Mal4's, or BYTE's. Wish I could say I get it just a little bit, but I don't, not even a little. I guess we all "think" with our feelings... feelings come first, explanations come second... but I'm way more horrified by rappy than you are. At this point, nobody has been able to explain to me, in a way that I can understand, WHY you would be so gosh-darn complacent about someone who's a very vocal supporter of true, widespread ongoing evil, a loud-and-proud sociopath; and so reactive about someone merely pointing out that fact.

If somone had said, of Hitler's many vocal, active civilian supporters during the middle of WWII... while people were being rounded up and gassed... that THEY were as bad as rapists... would you not have agreed? Or would you have gotten squeamish about the "name" that they were being called... Ooooh don't use the word "rapist", that's too awful! Too specific!? Because, the same is happening today: We're in the midst of a WWII, and WE are the Nazis, everywhere we go. (NEXT- Venezuela) I think that most people on this board don't apreciate that part of reality in all it's awful import. I haven't said what I think of your failure to comprehend a truly horrific process. But I think if you really understood what was going on you'd be horrified too.

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