What's the deal with KPO?

POSTED BY: HKCavalier
UPDATED: Friday, June 7, 2013 19:26
VIEWED: 22000
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HKCAVALIER

Sunday, June 2, 2013 5:22 PM

Hey Signy,

Certainly didn't mean to dodge any question of yours. I'm sorry, I don't understand what you're asking.

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

SIGNYM

Sunday, June 2, 2013 5:24 PM

They DO pose a threat to you and me, HKC, just like the brownshirt supporters posed a threat to all defectives, socialists, gypsies, and Jews. This is simply not the forum to address those real-life threats. Ignoring them is the best response IMHO because it is the most effective response for this process. Other arenas deserve other responses.

Also, RE: My question. Oh dear, there really IS a lack of communicatin isn't there?? This will take more of an explanation than I have time for. Yanno, I'm gonna HAVE to get off this PC, my family is really pissed at me and feeling very neglected.

HKCAVALIER

Sunday, June 2, 2013 5:28 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
They DO pose a threat to you and me, HKC, just like the brownshirt supporters posed a threat to all defectives, socialists, gypsies, and Jews.

How is that argument different from Byte's "We're all to blame for torture because we pay taxes?"

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

HKCAVALIER

Sunday, June 2, 2013 5:30 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:
Yanno, I'm gonna HAVE to get off this PC, my family is really pissed at me and feeling very neglected.

In the words of the immortal Dubya: "Put food on your family!" This conversation can wait. :)

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

MAL4PREZ

Sunday, June 2, 2013 5:41 PM

(Replying to posts a ways up about Jongs and Rappy etc)

HKC,

It's been explained several times, so I'm not sure what's the use, but I'll try again anyway...

The issue is not that they are bad people. It is not about they disagree with anyone (really this has been explained 1000 1000 times!) The issue is that they are incapable and even dead set against reasonable conversation. You've got the terrorism analogy completely backward. The pent up frustration comes from those of us who've seen our attempts at rational discussion derailed again and again by RWAs who want nothing but to make themselves the center of attention.

We have spent years trying to keep things on the tracks, tried to talk to them again and again, but the RWAs won't accept that. You've been long enough. You've seen all the efforts that have been made to converse with them. It fails every time. The current state of things is due to their determination to pull this place down. They drove off reasonable posters and pulled down the discourse of every who stayed.

They have been "carpet bombed" with mockery because that is all they will accept. That is all that can done with them. You don't agree? Please, try to find ONE RWED thread where Rappy or Jongs had any kind of rational exchange of more than two or three posts in length. Go on, look. Proof has been provided about Jongs lack of interest in discussing his own threads. Can you find any thing to counter that?

Jongsie's temper tantrum was not a retaliation, it was a continuation of his effort to stop any reasonable conversation from happening here. The sad thing, he has succeeded.

The only thing the actual thinking people can do to change this is to completely, 100%, always ignore the trolls. We did it once and it worked. Doesn't seem like it'll happen again though. They've taken over. :(

BYTEMITE

Sunday, June 2, 2013 5:44 PM

I talk about paying taxes as a basis of why finger pointing doesn't do anyone any good because we're kinda all the same and also all responsible for today's social problems.

But considering someone a personal threat to yourself and your livelyhood just because they talk on the internet, go to pro-gun rallies, and vote for right wing candidates... This board is all just talking, as far as I'm concerned. The threats are the people who feed the propaganda machine and stir things up and set the nation against itself as a smokescreen for doing whatever they want to do.

Rappy, Jongstraw, and Wulf are not a threat to us or anyone. They've never attacked any abortion clinics, or tortured anyone, or wiretapped any of us, even though they're against abortion and support waterboarding and the Patriot Act. Like most of the country, they are content to let the big issues be decided by someone other than themselves.

1KIKI

Sunday, June 2, 2013 5:49 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by HKCavalier:
I'd say it's the both of yous.

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

I lit the hatch then walked away, I think. Haven't been home to keep up with what's going on, and at this point, will never catch up ... just gotta walk away from this one.

Well, except maybe to briefly restate something I've stated a few time already in the past - reason, patience, facts don't work with them. I've seen it consistently fail all these years though it's been tried from day 1. And there is considerable evidence that pursuing that course with them makes things worse by making them more entrenched. Insanity is doing the same thing over and expecting a different result. There are two other courses that haven't been tried with nearly the fervor as reasoned debate: social isolation and social rejection.

HKCAVALIER

Sunday, June 2, 2013 6:16 PM

Mal4,

We've reached a truly fascinating impasse. Why is it so hard for you to admit that you think Jongs' and AURaptor are bad people? How in the world is

Quote:
The pent up frustration comes from those of us who've seen our attempts at rational discussion derailed again and again by RWAs who want nothing but to make themselves the center of attention.

and

Quote:
The current state of things is due to their determination to pull this place down. They drove off reasonable posters and pulled down the discourse of every who stayed.

and

Quote:
Jongsie's temper tantrum was not a retaliation, it was a continuation of his effort to stop any reasonable conversation from happening here.

NOT the same as saying they're bad, malicious, irrational people???

AND they may very well be bad, malicious, irrational people. If it quacks like a duck, etc. ALL THE MORE REASON not to talk to them. Yes. Ignore them. Yes. Great idea. Best idea. I'm all for it.

At this point the argument generally devolves into "But I like watching the monkey dance" or some other lame, pseudo-sadistic nya-nya-nya.

I don't disagree with your assessment of Jongs' or Raptor's contribution to the board. How come no one understands that? It's simple: I'm against demeaning people. I'm against dehumanizing people with ugly names. It makes YOU a bully. A bully who only bullies bad people who "deserve it" is still a bully.

The ugliness stops when people refuse to participate in the ugliness. It at least stops for that individual. But when a critical mass of people opt out of the childishness it does have an effect. As you noted, it's worked in the past. Why, after all these years, are we still talking about this? (I know, lame attempt to paraphrase Mal, sorry--I'm a fan.)

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

KPO

Sunday, June 2, 2013 7:03 PM

Quote:
Folks may find the analogy to be OMG OVER-THE-TOP RIDONKULOUS but seems to me we've got a RWED model of the psychological origins of terrorism.

I actually don't think Jongs' behaviour was that bad. He was being a nuisance more than anything. The thread I started was pretty personal and combative towards him, and tbh I wouldn't say confidently myself that it was justified. But I'm glad his spamming behaviour seems to have abated, and I'm ready to make peace with him.

I'm actually with you on the amount of nastiness that gets directed at the conservatives here, and have spoken out against it myself in the past, if you can believe that. I probably would've backed you up in this thread if, well, I wasn't the subject of it. My ideal solution would be some system of tallying up insults and nastiness and then giving posters a nastiness rating, of sorts. I think people might modify their behaviour if it said next to their name how much they had insulted other posters. But unless such a bit of software is already out there ready-made, it's probably not feasible for RWED.

Quote:
Sometimes I think I see deeply into a situation and the implications disturb me tremendously. So, I make my case, say my piece.

I would say to remember that it's the good guys who can sometimes do much more damage than the bad guys. Someone will read your posts HK, and respect your clear, moral voice. But then that same person will be stunned when you turn your moral judgement very severely on them... The bottom line is that you have to be 100% sure with your insights. Give people the benefit of the doubt if you're not sure - especially good people.

Quote:
My own (very self serving, to be sure) observation says I only get so upset rarely.

Well sometimes your eloquent rants are exactly what is needed. But I get the impression that they're not always spontaneous - that they've been bubbling up inside you for a while, and when you let them loose the person you direct them at is not as guilty as the person(s) who inspired the original indignation... E.g. indulging in rape fantasies - I'm sure you didn't pull that out of the air, but it definitely does NOT apply to Byte. Sometimes, because you're passionate, I think you jump the gun.

It's not personal. It's just war.

NIKI2

Sunday, June 2, 2013 9:16 PM

Quote:
The pent up frustration comes from those of us who've seen our attempts at rational discussion derailed again and again by RWAs who want nothing but to make themselves the center of attention. We have spent years trying to keep things on the tracks, tried to talk to them again and again, but the RWAs won't accept that.

Quote:
reason, patience, facts don't work with them. I've seen it consistently fail all these years though it's been tried from day 1. And there is considerable evidence that pursuing that course with them makes things worse by making them more entrenched. Insanity is doing the same thing over and expecting a different result. There are two other courses that haven't been tried with nearly the fervor as reasoned debate: social isolation and social rejection.

Amen...except I would say forms of "social rejection" HAVE been tried, that's part of the mockery thing, but they've only been tried by a few.

As far as

Quote:
The ugliness stops when people refuse to participate in the ugliness. It at least stops for that individual. But when a critical mass of people opt out of the childishness it does have an effect. As you noted, it's worked in the past.

Gawd, I WISH! I've learned to ignore a few of the worst, but the problem is, those I still read are so prolific, and Jongs/Geez post so MUCH bullshit, there's little room for anything else. I'm afraid I refuse to call them "bad", as I don't believe in "bad" people, only people who do bad things. But I certainly agree with "malicious" and "irrational". I just gave up pleading for civility and joined the throng, which I'm trying to do less lately. Problem is, there are few people posting EXCEPT the worst, and everyone else responds to them and their threads, rather than engaging in anything else. I wish it were possible for people not to be triggered by their nastiness, to just let it roll off our backs and discuss AROUND them, but that doesn't seem possible...

Quote:
I'm actually with you on the amount of nastiness that gets directed at the conservatives here

I find that really curious, considering the VAST amount of nastiness I read directed at liberals, and even moderates, here. It's probably not worth it, but perhaps I should keep track, as you suggested, and see if I'm misperceiving things...

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