The Hitler Conundrum

POSTED BY: RionaEire
UPDATED: Tuesday, July 28, 2026 18:31
VIEWED: 8911
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BYTEMITE

Monday, March 4, 2013 8:58 PM

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Did it really have nothing to do with that Byte? Did it not? Unless you're deep in her head and fantasies, you could never say one way or another.

Well, maybe I have no idea what she said to me, and maybe people lie all the time to their friends about the reasons they have a crush on long dead much feared leaders of armies that rampaged across asia minor. It could totally happen.

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Not speaking at all for Riona here, but just saying that this is the mentality that any woman who stays with an abusive and/or alcoholic husband in this age and reasons to her friends after the 15th time she's pretended to be clumsy and fall down the stairs.

I'm sure that staying with him because she likes to be hit is the more likely reason.

But, I will give you credit in that not having to deal with someone else's negatives is what makes it possible for some people to have a crush on the totally wicked types.

Like how people have crushes on Jayne, or Mal, when both of them would probably be completely intolerable in real life.

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As tight-lipped as you are, we may never even have the slightest peek inside of your head, but I can guaranty that it would be a fun ride.

You do like to be disappointed, don't you? Perhaps someday, I'll fill you in on all my misadventures napping on top of a pile of unfinished paperwork. Thrilling.

BYTEMITE

Monday, March 4, 2013 10:39 PM

Exactly the argument I have used in the past. Genocide doesn't HAVE to be killing to be effective in destroying a group.

JONGSSTRAW

Tuesday, March 5, 2013 12:54 AM

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Originally posted by Brenda:
Cool Jong. Not sure if I knew about this film. Love, love Omar Sharif. I'll have to take a look for it. :)

I'm also a big Omar Sharif fan. Despite the popularity of Dr. Zhivago, I think Genghis Khan is his finest role. Also, Stephen Boyd (Marsalla in Ben Hur) plays a really nasty Jamuga. It's quite a good movie with a few racy scenes, so be sure to watch it uncut. Here's a picture of the happy couple...

RIONAEIRE

Tuesday, March 5, 2013 1:17 AM

I wish someone (in America) would make a new Genghis film. I've seen the two available in English, the one mentioned already and the Conquorer (which is actually quite entertaining once you get over the fact that John Wayne is playing Temujin, if you can get over that its actually a cool movie.). there are some done in Russian, Mandarin, Mongolian etc. but they have subtitles and we can't really do subtitles at our house. My dad can't read them to me fast enough, unless they're in Lakota or another language that is on the liesurely side. I was hoping to rent one of those foreign Genghis films and have Mary come over to watch it with me and read me the subtitles, but she's in a little city 5 hours away now, so no such luck. Why can't America be small like Ireland? Then Mary would not be so very far away living in the next "state" over.

I don't really get crushes on real men, just men from history and from books, movies and shows. Real men don't ever seem that appealing. I have a very small crush on this guy I play trivia with, but that hasn't gone anywhere and it won't now that he has a girlfriend. I'm so particular about what I do and don't want that there isn't a real man in the world most likely which would suit me. For goodness sake, my needs in a man are so difficult to meet that that's nye on impossible, much less my wants and hoped for traits. I suspect there's no one out there for me.

In regards to what Jack speculates as to why a woman would have a crush on Genghis Khan, most of it is what Byte said, he had a rich family life, loved his first wife and kids a lot, even though he took other wives, but that's what conquorers did back then. He was very close with his mom too and he instigated a new writing system for Mongolia and yata yata yata. But there is a piece of me that is drawn to men with power, not power over me, but just power in general, and I've never really thought about it before, but the security of feeling protected by someone who can end anyone who would try to harm me is quite appealing too.

Other people I have crushes on: Capt. Picard, Simon Tam, Mal, Shiloh Irons, Jamuqa, the guy on Dances With Wolves (not Kevin Costner, but the charactor). I don't get crushes on actors, I get crushes on charactors, because the actor isn't the same person as the charactor. I have others but I can't think of them off the top of my head.

Real guys just don't appeal to me.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

RIONAEIRE

Tuesday, March 5, 2013 1:30 AM

That movie was okay, but it got Jamuqa wrong. Temujin and Jamuqa are blood brothers, then they become rivals because they both have ambitions and aspirations for power. Then Jamuqa's men turn him in and Temujin has those traitors killed, because Temujin hates traitors, even if they are trying to help _him. So Jamuqa and Temujin talk, temujin says he loves Jamuqa and they can begin again. But Jamuqa says he knows that can't ever be, that Temujin is the winner and he will always be a thorn in Temujin's side. So he asks to be killed in the honorable fashion. Temujin reluctantly agrees and has it done. I love the story of those two, its so sad that Jamuqa dies at the end though. I'm really into super intense best friendships though, so of course I just eat up this sort of thing.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

BYTEMITE

Tuesday, March 5, 2013 3:07 AM

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But there is a piece of me that is drawn to men with power, not power over me, but just power in general, and I've never really thought about it before, but the security of feeling protected by someone who can end anyone who would try to harm me is quite appealing too.

Scandalous!

Eh, I guess it's not an uncommon sentiment, but not one I understand. A guy getting all patronizing tends to get me bristling and snarling more than usual, and more likely than anything else I'll have a grudge about it.

RIONAEIRE

Tuesday, March 5, 2013 3:37 AM

I would agree if he were patronizing it would lose its appeal. Its such a subtile thing, the things I like in men, they have to be just so, not too far one way or the other.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

AGENTROUKA

Tuesday, March 5, 2013 9:31 AM

It's really probably the most common escapist female fantasy and my personal guess is that it's not so much the power but the competence and confidence of the character who wields it. This guy knows what he wants, and if that happens to be you, there is going to be no ambiguity or uncertainty. Being wanted and valued becomes a fact, not through pesky effort but through simply being. Surely being wanted by someone that accomplished is proof enough of personal worth.

It's a rescue fantasy. Instant self-worth, emotional power, life-long security and second-degree glory (his accomplishments reflect on you) without any of the rejection, pressure, uncertainty and failure that would mark attempting to achieve those things by yourself.

You'll find a lot fewer women crushing on Louis XVI of France, who was theoretically an absolute monarch because he was shy, bumbling and deeply sexually insecure. You don't feel safe with that guy, you have to listen to him drone on about his locksmith hobby while he refuses to sleep with you and people laugh at him. And then you'll be beheaded.

I doesn't really bother me. Wanting to escape real-life pressures to an effortless security is a human trope and most women are handling so many real-life responsibilities with so many personal insecurities, it's utterly natural that their fantasy is to make all of that instantly disappear.

Plus, it's how girls are taught to fantasize. Historically, women were rarely rulers but wives or lovers of rulers. And fairy tale happy endings tend to use marriage as the reward. Women are taught they need a man's desire to feel complete and so even if given the choice, most would probably choose to be the hero's wife rather than the heroine who accomplishes the same grand things herself.

Final verdict: Only semi-troubling. More a reflection of real problems than a problem itself. I'm not going to look down on a woman who indulges in such fantasies, at all. I would only worry if she tried to replicate it in real life.

BYTEMITE

Tuesday, March 5, 2013 3:07 PM

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I would agree if he were patronizing it would lose its appeal.

The problem is by definition it's patronizing - the word has roots meaning monetary support for a reason. It's just some kinds of patronizing seem nicer and are more insidious than others. But being nice about it doesn't make it not patronizing.

It's basically saying, you don't have to take care of yourself, I'll do that for you. And for someone like me, it's deeply constrictive and more than a little offensive - if they think they're *expected* to act that way and take care of their partner, there's the implication that their partner is expected to act like a docile little DOLL who can't take care of themselves. All because of gender roles. INFURIATING.

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Only semi-troubling. More a reflection of real problems than a problem itself.

Realistically, people have to solve their own problems. No one wants to have to live up to those kinds of expectations, be they man or woman. No one wants a partner who doesn't bring anything to the table themselves, that breeds resentment. Unless they're a sparkly vampire.

And then there's the kind of guy who thinks that being nice and protective of girls is basically the key to getting in their pants. And then when you see it coming well in advance and flat out turn down any help they offer, they get PUSHY. It's super creepy.

Not to mention the whole situation would be completely unworkable - if someone is going to have KIDS with this person, they don't need an additional dependent on top of everything. If both partners are adults, then both partners have to take responsibility for themselves.

Basically that whole fantasy is something to steer WIDELY clear of. It looks to be a recipe for unhappiness and lack of personal fulfillment for both partners. Also abusive and exploitative.

AGENTROUKA

Tuesday, March 5, 2013 3:30 PM

I utterly agree with that. It's a fantasy, not a life plan. And the majority of women are pretty well aware of that. They work responsible jobs, raise kids, pay taxes and would reject a controlling partner. But they also lean back with a vapid romance novel every one in a while for escapism.

It's the ones who are not making that fantasy distinction that make themselves extremely vulnerable to disappointed expectations AT BEST and abuse and exploitation further on.

But I maintain that it's not the fantasies that are a problem, but that they are a symptom of individual problems and a more general gender media culture. Vilifying women for having these fantasies, especially since the majority would not attempt to see them acted out, won't remove the causes. It'd be far more helpful to see culture change that allows for more nonconformity in life paths for both men and women.

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