Biden says a shotgun will scare off intruders

POSTED BY: GEEZER
UPDATED: Thursday, May 7, 2026 16:24
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GEEZER

Tuesday, February 26, 2013 3:11 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by kpo:
To a lot of people it's an important question whether banning guns like the AR-15 endangers homeowners; and so public discussion on the subject is healthy. And I stated my own opinion as just that - an opinion. Hence the words "it seems to me". I'll ditch the word 'sufficient' because I didn't quite mean that; but I did mean 'well-suited', and I think Biden was correct in making that point.

This gets back to the "need" argument. Does anyone "need" an AR-15? Does anyone "need" a Porterhouse steak? Does anyone "need" a car that goes over 70mph? Does anyone "need" alcoholic drinks? Should all these things be banned, along with anything that might hurt someone?

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I doubt that you, even though you've been extolling its virtues, would reach for a gun like the AR-15 if you woke up and there was an intruder in your house at 3am. Now, undoubtedly for a FEW people this would be their weapon of choice.

Given that there's several million AR-15 type weapons in the U.S., I'd say more than a FEW.

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But the question for me and a lot of folk is, would those few people be significantly endangered in those circumstances, if they were limited to other types of gun?

Apparently a number of folks who oppose banning such weapons think so, else you wouldn't be having this conversation.

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My suspicion is that an AR-15 would sometimes give home-defenders an advantage, but might just as often be a disadvantage when speed is of the essence, due to its weight, unwieldiness and the fact that it can't be stored somewhere very easily accessible (like a handgun).

And once again, ARs are generally lightweight, being made largely of aluminum and plastic; aren't unweildy, being smaller than most shotguns; have much less recoil than a shotgun; and are more accurate in stressful situations than a handgun (unless you have a serious amount of practice). You continue to ignore these points.

Ever shoot an AR-15? A shotgun? a handgun? Any experience with any of them in a relatively stressful situation, say a competition? If not, on what do you base your suspicion? The word of Joe Biden?

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In short, my claim is this: banning guns like the AR-15 would NOT lead to a sizeable increase in people being killed in their homes, and/or burglary. I think the effect of an assault weapons ban, in this respect, would be negligible; and that this is an important message for the public to hear.

I suspect that you're determining the outcome you want, and then crafting your message to promote it. You continue to ignore facts that disagree with your message, and provide none of your own to support it.

I'm also kind of disturbed by your acceptance, if your assumptions were correct, of a 'negligible' increase in deaths if people didn't have AR-15 type weapons for protection. Don't know how the innocent folks who would presumably be sacrificed for your greater good would feel about that.

"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

KWICKO

Tuesday, February 26, 2013 5:58 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Geezer:

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If you aren't smart enough to figure out that when someone says to fire off a couple blasts with a shotgun, they mean "in the air"...

You mean you want me to make that ASSumption? Kind'a inconsistent in your opinion of ASSumptions today, aren't you, Mike?

Certainly no more than you are.

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Actually, you might worry about Jill Biden being smart enough to know this. I've got better sense than to fire a weapon without knowing what my target is, and what's behind it.

So you're ASSuming - again - that Jill Biden doesn't know a thing about gun safety. I guess you're one up on me on inconsistencies in your ASSumptions now. Touché. That's top-notch trolling.

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, then I really don't want you anywhere around me with your guns, because you're also stupid enough to go around aiming your penis substitute at everyone else's face.

And as usual when you get backed into a corner, out come the insults. But falsely maligning my gun safety practices doesn't make Biden's advice any less stupid on several levels, and you've still never come out and said whether you think firing a shotgun, even just 'in the air,' as a warning is a good or bad idea.

"Backed into a corner"? Really? Hardly. Disagreeing with you and refuting your ASSumptions point by point is hardly being "backed into a corner". I think you're mistaking your own behavior for mine; seems to me you have a habit of insults and namecalling when a debate isn't going your way. Do the words "sick fuck" ring a bell? All I'd done in that debate was suggest that, from a tactical point of view, a U.S. military base was a fair target in a "war", whether declared or not, and that a terrorist wanting to strike at personnel or civilian employees on that base was targeting a fair target in doing so.

Now, as to whether or not I think it's a good or bad idea to fire a shotgun, even into the air, you'd have to look up and actually read my responses to see where I specifically addressed that. I know comprehension has never been your strong suit, so I can understand how you completely missed it.

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

"I was wrong" - Hero, 2012

Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"

Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."

KWICKO

Tuesday, February 26, 2013 6:04 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Geezer:

Ever shoot an AR-15? A shotgun? a handgun?

Yes, yes, and yes.

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Any experience with any of them in a relatively stressful situation, say a competition?

Does pistol match competition count?

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If not, on what do you base your suspicion? The word of Joe Biden?

Experience. At close ranges, like those within a house, I'm much better with a handgun, having been trained in combat shooting from a young age. At ranges of 100 yards or more, I'm better with a rifle, as most people are. My home is less than 100 yards long, and no room is more than 10 yards across, so a handgun makes much better sense for me personally over a rifle, but a shotgun makes better sense overall.

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

"I was wrong" - Hero, 2012

Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"

Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."

KWICKO

Tuesday, February 26, 2013 6:07 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Geezer:

Actually, you might worry about Jill Biden being smart enough to know this. I've got better sense than to fire a weapon without knowing what my target is, and what's behind it. Also, even if you assume "in the air", that covers a lot of scenarios. everything from right above the horizon to straight up. Now, based on the calculator here, http://www.ctmuzzleloaders.com/ctml_experiments/rbballistics/rbballist
ics.html a 00 buck ball launched at 1450fps, a common velocity for that load, is still going 795 fps at 100yds, with energy of 76 foot-pounds. This is about the energy of a .22 long rifle at the same distance. There are 15 shot in the average 00 buck load. So if Mrs. Biden fires "two blasts" 'in the air' just above the horizon, she's putting more lead, with more energy, 'in the air' than if she'd shot three 10-round magazines from a Ruger 10/22. And it's going to come down somewhere.

And why are you ASSuming that every shotgun is loaded with double-ought buckshot? Or that Jill Biden's shotgun is? Is 00 buck the most common shotgun load, or just the one that supports your ASSumptions?

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

"I was wrong" - Hero, 2012

Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"

Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."

GEEZER

Wednesday, February 27, 2013 2:01 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:
Originally posted by Geezer:
Quote:

Actually, you might worry about Jill Biden being smart enough to know this. I've got better sense than to fire a weapon without knowing what my target is, and what's behind it.

So you're ASSuming - again - that Jill Biden doesn't know a thing about gun safety.

If she follows her husband's advice, its pretty apparent she doesn't.

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Do the words "sick fuck" ring a bell?

Yep. they're the words you trot out when you've got nothing else.

"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

GEEZER

Wednesday, February 27, 2013 2:03 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
And why are you ASSuming that every shotgun is loaded with double-ought buckshot? Or that Jill Biden's shotgun is? Is 00 buck the most common shotgun load, or just the one that supports your ASSumptions?

Even birdshot can do a good bit of damage. Dick Cheney put his hunting buddy in the hospital with over 200 pellets imbedded in his body, some in or near his heart. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dick_Cheney_hunting_incident

"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

KWICKO

Wednesday, February 27, 2013 2:06 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Geezer:
Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:
Originally posted by Geezer:
Quote:

Actually, you might worry about Jill Biden being smart enough to know this. I've got better sense than to fire a weapon without knowing what my target is, and what's behind it.

So you're ASSuming - again - that Jill Biden doesn't know a thing about gun safety.

If she follows her husband's advice, its pretty apparent she doesn't.

Quote:

Do the words "sick fuck" ring a bell?

Yep. they're the words you trot out when you've got nothing else.

"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

Actually, they're the words YOU trot out when you're "backed into a corner", aren't they?

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

"I was wrong" - Hero, 2012

Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"

Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."

GEEZER

Wednesday, February 27, 2013 2:09 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:

Do the words "sick fuck" ring a bell?

Yep. they're the words you trot out when you've got nothing else.

"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

Actually, they're the words YOU trot out when you're "backed into a corner", aren't they?

If so, then I haven't been "backed into a corner" in what? Five or six years?

"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

6IXSTRINGJACK

Wednesday, February 27, 2013 2:26 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
If you think that my saying that Biden's "solution" is preferable to shooting someone with 30 rounds from an assault rifle equates to me "defending" him or him being my "idol" (Geezer's quote), then yes, you're a moron.

I can also point out the benefits of the interstate highway system without defending or idolizing Adolf Hitler.

Haha..... Point taken.... no. Of course that "solution" isn't better than straight up shooting 30 holes through a stranger and asking questions later.

My point(s) were about shooting a shotgun in the air......

Why not into the ground, if sound is all that matters?

Let's just go around shooting Roman Candles haphazardly in Chuckie Cheezes while we're at it, huh?

That's just one example of the difference between GWB and Biden. GWB only pretended to be dumb while passing a lot of anti-constitutional things his SUPER-intelligent VP wanted passed.

Obama got to keep all of those powers, and expand on them, and whenever big issues like this came up he could send his loveable idiot VP "Joe" to be friends with all of us.

Still though..... I'm glad I don't live anywhere near him or his wife if that's their idea of gun "safety".....

GEEZER

Wednesday, February 27, 2013 2:29 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:
Originally posted by Geezer:

Ever shoot an AR-15? A shotgun? a handgun?

Yes, yes, and yes.

Quote:
Any experience with any of them in a relatively stressful situation, say a competition?

Does pistol match competition count?

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If not, on what do you base your suspicion? The word of Joe Biden?

Experience. At close ranges, like those within a house, I'm much better with a handgun, having been trained in combat shooting from a young age. At ranges of 100 yards or more, I'm better with a rifle, as most people are. My home is less than 100 yards long, and no room is more than 10 yards across, so a handgun makes much better sense for me personally over a rifle, but a shotgun makes better sense overall.

Thanks for making my point.

You have a lot of training and experience with a pistol, and so are comfortable using it for self-defense. You are also, if I remember correctly, a pretty big guy, so the recoil of a shotgun with self-defense loads wouldn't affect you much.

But how about a five foot woman, weighing 100 pounds, who has no firearms experience. What weapon would it be easiest for her to quickly learn to operate and hit a target?

You know that a handgun takes quite a bit of practice to shoot well, and that it's easy for a novice to miss even close targets. Also, a small person may end up 'limp-wristing' a semi-auto, resulting in a failure to feed.

A shotgun with anything more than a skeet load produces quite a bit of recoil, and pump actions are all to easy for someone with little practice to short-stroke in stressful situations (especially for a small-framed person), be it self-defense or a bowling pin match.

An AR type rifle is easy to hold and aim, has very little recoil, and is easy to get into action: leave it in Condition Three with a magazine inserted and an empty chamber, pull the charging handle all the way back and let go, and you're ready.

I'm not saying that the AR is THE self-defense gun, but that it can be the proper choice for some people.

"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

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