Real World Event Discussions

Biden says a shotgun will scare off intruders

POSTED BY: GEEZER
UPDATED: Thursday, May 7, 2026 16:24
VIEWED: 9199
PAGE 6 of 13

KPO

Thursday, February 21, 2013 11:41 PM

Quote:
Depends on the circumstances. Depends on where the home is. Depends on who is doing the shooting and their skill level with each type of weapon.

I sense you're being evasive. Could you give me an ordinary* example where you would worry for the family's safety, if they had only shotguns and handguns?

*Or as ordinary as you can think of.

It's not personal. It's just war.

KWICKO

Friday, February 22, 2013 5:23 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by GEEZER:
Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Yes, firing a shotgun - even one with buckshot - into the air is preferable to firing a weapon that will penetrate your exterior walls on its way to penetrating your neighbor's exterior walls. I've explained this to you more than once, and you seem to still be too stupid to fathom it.

Perhaps because it's not true?

Interesting test of various .223, pistol, and shotgun loads against drywall here. http://how-i-did-it.org/drywall/results.html Seems that most .223 tends to fragment after one or two walls of drywall, whereas handgun ammo above .380 and 00 buck generally cruise through three with no trouble.

Here's another interesting test against a mockup exterior wall..."This piece of wall was sheeted with ½" wafer board, covered with a 2nd piece of ½" wafer board to simulate siding. This wall was built using a 2x4 frame and finished on the inside with ½" sheet rock. The interior [of the wall] was lined with fiberglass insulation."
http://www.olyarms.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=15
%3A223-penetration-testing&catid=13%3Atechnical-info&Itemid=26
Both .40S&W and a 12 gauge slug had much more penetrating power than a .223 round.

It really is funny to watch you just make stuff up, or parrot the "high-powered assault weapons" crap in your attempt to cover up the fact that Biden's advice to fire a shotgun off the balcony at nothing in particular is dangerous to innocent bystanders, probably illegal in most jurisdictions, and pretty stupid tactically. Gotta protect your idol, I guess.

What did I make up? And why do you stupidly assume that all assault rifles are .223 caliber? And why are you comparing .223 frangible ammo to jacketed pistol ammo?

And why did you leave out the 7.62x39mm results for the typical AK variant, the most common assault rifle on the planet?

http://230grain.com/showthread.php?65428-Ammunition-Drywall-Penetratio
n-Analysis-Test-(Adpat)

You'll note that it easily went through all three full walls - it was tumbling by the time it went through the third wall, making it the equivalent of the "dum-dum" bullet that was banned for warfare because they just devastate any living thing they hit.

And why did you choose to leave out any mention of some of the .223 ammo that went through all three walls?

Because you're desperate? Because you're making shit up? Because you're making shit up out of desperation?

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

"I was wrong" - Hero, 2012

Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"

Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."

KWICKO

Friday, February 22, 2013 5:42 AM

Here's the full results for all the ammo they tried.

Note that they left out 7.62x54r, .308, 5.45x39mm, and quite a few other common assault rifle calibers.

Also note that nearly all of the ammo penetrated three walls, quite clearly illustrating the danger of firing off multiple shots.

The "Hornady TAP 55 and 60 grain" ammo is that "frangible" ammo of the type that Geezer here is extolling for home defense use. Note that it penetrates three walls as well.

And remember, we keep being told that sometimes you just really, really NEED a full 30-round magazine to fend off those evil intruders. Seems to me if you're firing off 30 rounds in a home invasion situation, you're probably not aiming very well, and you're almost definitely going to be sending a storm of lead your neighbor's way, probably to more than one neighbor's house.

I'd also note that even most right-wing gun nuts tend to favor shotguns and small-caliber handguns for home defense, and eschew assault weapons for that purpose. I've never known any serious gun person to make the case that assault rifles are the ideal self-defense weapon in the home.

I am certain that in a home-defense situation, I would not reach for my AK, MAK-90, or PSL. Nor would I grab my FN-FAL, because I realize that none of them are home-defense rifles. There's a reason they're called ASSAULT rifles, and not SELF-DEFENSE rifles, after all...

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero

"I was wrong" - Hero, 2012

Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"

Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."

AURAPTOR

Friday, February 22, 2013 2:12 PM

Why is "Big effing Deal " Joe telling his wife to fire off a shot gun from the back deck of their home if they have secret service protection ?

Fathom the hypocrisy of a government that requires every citizen to prove they are insured... but not everyone must prove they are a citizen

Resident USA Freedom Fundie

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

GEEZER

Friday, February 22, 2013 2:23 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by kpo:
Quote:
Depends on the circumstances. Depends on where the home is. Depends on who is doing the shooting and their skill level with each type of weapon.

I sense you're being evasive.

Not really. You're posing a question that has several possible answers depending on conditions, and requiring me to provide only one answer without knowing those conditions. When you tell me whether a family should have a Civic or a minivan, I'll answer your question.

"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

GEEZER

Friday, February 22, 2013 2:45 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
What did I make up?

That all .223 rounds just zip thorugh wall after wall, and body after body.

Quote:
And why do you stupidly assume that all assault rifles are .223 caliber? And why are you comparing .223 frangible ammo to jacketed pistol ammo?

And why did you leave out the 7.62x39mm results for the typical AK variant, the most common assault rifle on the planet?

Because both Biden ("You don't need an AR-15..."), and yourself ("Certainly it's safer than using an AR-15...") specifically mention the AR-15, and the overwhelming number of AR type rifles are chambered in .223. Note that in many cases jacketed hollowpoint .223 disintegrated, but 9mm JHP penetrated.

And once again you fail to address the stupidity of Biden's suggestion that "...if there's ever a problem, just walk out on the balcony ... take that double-barrel shotgun and fire two blasts outside the house."

"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

GEEZER

Friday, February 22, 2013 3:04 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Here's the full results for all the ammo they tried.

Note that they left out 7.62x54r, .308, 5.45x39mm, and quite a few other common assault rifle calibers.

Any of these commonly used in an AR-15 platform?

You and Biden, as noted above, specified an AR-15, but now you want to run in pretty much any semi-auto rifle.

Besides, since you slipped up and used the term "assault rifle" I can quote the definition that leaves pretty much any 7.62X54r and .308 you can buy without a Federal license out of the category for a couple of reasons.
"An assault rifle is a selective fire (selective between automatic, semi-automatic, and burst fire) rifle that uses an intermediate cartridge and a detachable magazine."

The 5.45x39 is so ballistically similar to the .223 that there's little difference, and it's not really that common in the U.S. as compared to .223.

BTW, let's hear your take on the stupidity of Biden's suggestion that "...if there's ever a problem, just walk out on the balcony ... take that double-barrel shotgun and fire two blasts outside the house." I notice that you've failed to answer this request the several times I've made it.

"When your heart breaks, you choose what to fill the cracks with. Love or hate. But hate won't ever heal. Only love can do that."

KPO

Friday, February 22, 2013 4:38 PM

Quote:
you tell me whether a family should have a Civic or a minivan, I'll answer your question.

Gladly. For a regular suburban family with 2 kids a Civic would do very well. But a large family with 5 kids would likely find that a Civic was insufficient, and would better suit a minivan.

Now regarding home safety, and my question to you. Kindly give me an example of when shotguns/handguns would be insufficient for a typical* family protecting their home.

*Or as typical as you can think of for the purposes of your example.

Quote:

I sense you're being evasive.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Not really.

We'll see...

It's not personal. It's just war.

PIRATENEWS

Friday, February 22, 2013 5:08 PM

What a coincidence, Biden paid $2-million for paper targets so Dept of
Homeland Security cops can practice instantly shooting homeowners with
shotguns, "without hesitation"...while telling citizens to defend
themselves from shooters with plastic scissors!
http://www.infowars.com/dhs-contractor-apologizes-for-selling-shooting
-targets-of-children/

New Homeland Security Video Urges Americans to Resist Shooters…With Plastic
Scissors: “If you are caught out in the open, and cannot conceal yourself
or take cover, you might consider trying to overpower the shooter with
whatever means are available.”
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/01/31/new-homeland-security-video
-urges-americans-to-resist-shooters-with-scissors/

Department of Homeland Stupidity Says Huddle like Sheep and Die in
DHS "Options for Consideration Active Shooter Training Video"
http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2013/02/department_of_homeland_inc
ompetence_huddle_like_sheep_and_die.html

HERO

Friday, February 22, 2013 5:17 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:

See? That's why I'm putting all my spare money into booby traps and truck bombs. I never want to be in a situation to think "Gee, if only I'd have lined the entryway with Claymores!"

I'll be installing a Minuteman missile silo in the back yard, too. Y'know, just in case of... tyranny!

And yes, you really do sound that stupid, "Hero".
>

Boobytraps, even ones as simple as the old shotgun and string are all illegal.

As for a minuteman, go ahead...i say you should have as many as you can afford. They aren't much good without warheads anyway. Check your local zoning codes since missie solos are usually not an approved use.

H

Hero...must be right on all of this. ALL of the rest of us are wrong. Chrisisall, 2012