Gender and Violence and Blame
POSTED BY: Magonsdaughter
UPDATED: Tuesday, August 25, 2026 20:14
VIEWED: 35151
PAGE 22 of 31
Yep, and from what I've read and understood, it was patrilineal societies that developed controls over women's sexuality and behaviour. The only way to be sure that a child was yours, as a man, was to ensure you were the only one who slept with a woman.
From this concept springs marriage, adultery, restriction on women's clothing, behaviour, ostricising women for rape or being a single mother and a whole host of controlling, blaming societal behaviours that would not exist in a matrilineal society.
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Quote:
From this concept springs marriage, adultery
Maaaaybe. The others definitely.
Marriage and adultery are concepts that theoretically might arise on their own, depending on how viable the takes a village option is or if even then two primary caretakers works best. But in fairness we're hardly a monogamous species even when we do try to practice marriage.
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Magons, in regard to your points above about violent media. I think the answer is the age old principle of moderation in all things, and parents manning up and being parents. Parents have the right to decide what is apropriate for their child's consumption, they also have a right to set time limits and make sure that the child is living moderately, it goes beyond rights even, its their _job to raise their children to the best of their ability, so that when the children are of age and grown they'll know how to make good choices for themselves.
Again I also think that focusing on cause and affect and clarity between what is real and what isn't, what is okay in real life vs. what is okay in pretend and even that some things really aren't okay even in pretend play.
"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya
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Originally posted by BYTEMITE:Quote:
From this concept springs marriage, adultery
Maaaaybe. The others definitely.
Marriage and adultery are concepts that theoretically might arise on their own, depending on how viable the takes a village option is or if even then two primary caretakers works best. But in fairness we're hardly a monogamous species even when we do try to practice marriage.
Marriage has traditionally been more binding on women than on men. Adultery by men has been far more tolerated than for women.
Matrinlineal = it doens't matter who fathers a child. Therefore whether a man or a woman takes a life partner or has many is immaterial.
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Originally posted by RionaEire:
Magons, in regard to your points above about violent media. I think the answer is the age old principle of moderation in all things, and parents manning up and being parents. Parents have the right to decide what is apropriate for their child's consumption, they also have a right to set time limits and make sure that the child is living moderately, it goes beyond rights even, its their _job to raise their children to the best of their ability, so that when the children are of age and grown they'll know how to make good choices for themselves.
Again I also think that focusing on cause and affect and clarity between what is real and what isn't, what is okay in real life vs. what is okay in pretend and even that some things really aren't okay even in pretend play.
"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya
I agree Rione. I am not actually advocating any controls/prohibitions on any media.
I think the issues is what happens when people are unable to put limits on themselves or on their children. Pretty common.
I happen to agree that violence in movies and games can create excitment, an adrenalin rush. Porn results in sexual excitment. All of these things stimulate our emotions and feelings and I guess are in of themselves basically harmless.
But what happens when you have a society that is awash with violent and sexual imagery and where people spend a great deal of time viewing such images. I think there will be and is an impact on people's behaviour and expectations. What we do about it is something I am not all together sure about.
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TONY
Quote:I feel like I've just (metaphorically-speaking) tossed you the keys to the car and you're backing up with horror on your face, saying... Oh, no, man! You're like putting me in prison! I'm having a serious WTF??? moment. How, exactly, do you see this as lessening your freedom? What are you giving up? Please be clear.
The amount of control you wish to exercise in order to create a better world would just end up trading one prison for another.
BYTE
Quote:The funny thing is, I'm not angry. At least, I haven't really felt that in this thread. But I feel like I can see this something about how our society... MOST societies... work.
You're not the only one who's angry Sig. It's all right to be angry. The trick is finding the right target to focus that anger.
So we look at India and we're horrified.... horrified, I tell you... about their misogynistic ways and their caste system which condemns people to a lifetime of automatic poverty, killing exploitation, and scorn. But did you know that India's rape rates are less than 1/10 of ours? And we have our own Dalit, altho we call them the black poor and the crazy homeless. It seems impossible for us to look at our own society with any sort of clarity. We flutter and hop around in our cages proclaiming how "free" we are!
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Quote:
Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:Quote:
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:Quote:
From this concept springs marriage, adultery
Maaaaybe. The others definitely.
Marriage and adultery are concepts that theoretically might arise on their own, depending on how viable the takes a village option is or if even then two primary caretakers works best. But in fairness we're hardly a monogamous species even when we do try to practice marriage.
Marriage has traditionally been more binding on women than on men. Adultery by men has been far more tolerated than for women.
Matrinlineal = it doens't matter who fathers a child. Therefore whether a man or a woman takes a life partner or has many is immaterial.
Kinda does. Resource considerations.
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Magons it sounds like we are mostly in allignment.
"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya
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This... took a while, and a LOT of editing.
Okay, here goes, will try to keep this coherent if I can.
The vilification of self-defense is quite possibly the most dire setback of the late 20th and early 21st centuries, in that as a natural consequence it creates uncountable other ills.
It has enabled and emboldened criminal elements, had a tremendous negative social impact and has abetted some of the worst human and civil rights violations in decades.
Now, before responding with the well trained and conditioned jerking of knees and reflexively screaming at me and throwing poop like a buncha goddamn howler monkeys, do me the favor of hearing me out for once before you utterly ignore it all once again like it never existed.
This starts in the family, parents, especially authoritarian and/or abusive ones, do NOT want their child defending themselves, cause if they stand up to others, that runs the risk of sooner or later them standing up to YOU.
Think about it for a minute, a physically or emotionally abusive parents reaction to a child striking back, what is it, what it it's PURPOSE ?
That one strikes home especially deep with me given how early I learned that Force Majeure, a weapon, and the will to take it all the way matters - it put PAID to my fathers abuse, then, there, and forever, with a side note of property rights since the sumbitch thought kids shouldn't "own" anything and regularly pitched out everything I had.
Then you got schools, which also vilify self defense, maybe slightly better reasons to it but not many - the excuses and hypocrisy are abundantly clear to children because the school itself often maintains control via force and fear, so bullies are simply doing what the school does, what they are "taught", on a smaller scale.
And those who stand up to them are more often than not vilified for it, certainly punished cause they stepped outside the established order - not even necessarily with violence, cause everyone with half a brain knows that going to the authorities just gets one brushed off, labelled a tattletale, probably disciplined on top of it, and for what, cause they'll just consider it he-said-she-said and not do a goddamn thing... except to YOU.
Step up physically, especially with Force Majeure and a weapon, and you WILL pay dire consequences for it often worse than simply suffering the abuse.
What message does this send, WHY do they send it ?
WHAT ARE THEIR INTENTIONS ?
Then on to employers, who do have a little more reason in our revoltingly litigous society, cause resistance will almost certainly get you fired, even if the bad guy was GOING TO KILL YOU otherwise - you're expected to lay down and freakin die, rather than defend yourself, for your employers damn convenience...
How many gas station attendents and convenience store clerks die every year because of this ?
No one knows, no one dares ask, because they don't WANT to hear or know the answers.
Sure - there's times resistance isn't the best option, but only the person on the scene, eye-to-eye with the bad guy has any right to make that decision in my opinion.
I got more on this, but that'll come back in a different section.
Law enforcement, obviously doesn't want you defending yourself, not only does it concern them that you might stand up to THEM, it also steps on their social "turf", and negatively impacts their little game of pretending they're all that stands between us and darkness, as well as calling into question exactly why we need them, or why we should hand over our human and civil rights in exchange for a protection that is damn near never actually present at a moment of crisis.
And finally, Governments.
Obviously they have the same issues as noted above, but to a Government you see, the difference between criminal and citizen is effectively immaterial, we're all just taxslaves, resources, beasts of burden to them, and what care they if one victimizes another ?
Quote:
Listen to them closely and you'll hear tNOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
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I feel like I've just (metaphorically-speaking) tossed you the keys to the car and you're backing up with horror on your face, saying... Oh, no, man! You're like putting me in prison! I'm having a serious WTF??? moment. How, exactly, do you see this as lessening your freedom? What are you giving up? Please be clear.
Hello,
A freer world does not restrict my freedoms in order to protect me from myself. It does not tell me I can't broadcast or consume broadcasted television. It does not tell me I can't buy cable services to consume cable television. It does not block the things I can do for fear that I will succumb to propaganda.
A free world not only trusts me, but wants to restrict me as little as possible.
You are not describing a free world. You are describing a new cage of a different color, where the bars are in place to protect me from my worst tendencies.
No, thank you. I choose not to consume only the approved entertainment conveyed by the approved format. The FCC is bad enough already.
Never mind that everything you worry about in broadcast television and cable can come to pass on a free internet. And what will you do next, once you see the propaganda flowing into everyone's minds via the internet, something that you don't control? What will you do once you identify the next great threat to the freedoms of the people?
How much will you take away for my own good and the good of the society I live in?
--Anthony
Note to Self:
Raptor - woman testifying about birth control is a slut (the term applies.)
Context: http://tinyurl.com/d6ozfej
Six - Wow, isn't Niki quite the CUNT? And, yes, I spell that in all caps....
http://tinyurl.com/bdjgbpe
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.
Context: http://tinyurl.com/afve3r9
“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -T. S. Szasz
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