Gender and Violence and Blame
POSTED BY: Magonsdaughter
UPDATED: Tuesday, August 25, 2026 20:14
VIEWED: 35151
PAGE 20 of 31
Signy,
You're talking about a culture-wide conspiracy of some kind. You're obsessed with a "they" that's trying to destroy an "us." That kind of thinking can also be the result of media saturation. Us and them. But it's also supported by religion, and is promoted by our militaristic government. It's part of a psychology that longs for control.
But control is an illusion, so the mind obsessed with control generally ends up with domination. And the psychology that longs for control and domination is particularly susceptible to addictive processes and substances. The addict is trying to control aspects of her life that are by their nature uncontrollable--doubt, fear, loneliness, sorrow. Signy, I think you're kinda fear-mongering in your fight against the fear-mongers; fighting fire with fire and when you do that the house burns down.
The fabulous little "they" you've included me in with Messrs Isall and T and Mses Mite and Sky are all people, I believe, who have a deep appreciation for the folly, the danger, of too much of this longing for control. So we're never mad enough at "them" for you. We're never willing to do what you demand must be done as quickly as you require it to be done. And lord knows, we don't think properly.
We're all people who question the need for "leaders" and "masters," full stop. And not just politically/externally, but psychologically/internally. Follow your heart is as good a path as any and better than most, but in this upside-down and backward world you have to find your heart first. People who demand control all too often think they can skip that step. They think they can reach straight for the answers and fix the problem. Feelings just slow you down.
Do you really think there are military operatives striking deals with game designers to promote a murderous culture? You think that's why a game like Grand Theft Auto exists? And yeah, as Anthony said, if that's all true, what the heck are we gonna do to combat it?
Me, I think combat is a problem, conceptually. I'm a much bigger fan of integration. Now conflict, of course, is unavoidable at times and it's part, I think, of how our minds deal with certain realities. But I do think it's possible, if we're lucky and we're paying attention, to choose what form our conflict takes. I think the best form is internal conflict. And I think violent art and imagery can be used and processed as part of our internal conflict. Like an extention of our dreams. That's what I mean by catharsis.
That seemed to piss you off. You seem to have disdain for this idea of catharsis. Is that true?
Of course, catharsis is actually the antithesis of control. The catharsis that the ancient Greek audience had at the end of Oedipos the King when he put out his own eyes had nothing to do with control or a prescription for how to live (Don't fuck your mother), nothing to do with propaganda. It was something mysterious about the difficulty of being human, something to do with our eternal vulnerabilities and definitely the dangers of thinking we have all the answers.
This extraordinary violence in our culture is happening, right now. It's bigger than all of us, right now. It's like a wildfire, out of control. I think trying to combat it actually just makes it stronger. Trying to control it just makes it more dangerous.
I think we need to learn that "them" is just "us" when we get fixated on one problem and ignore a whole lot of others. "They," for some reason, don't understand the situation as "we" do. So, educate them. But first, learn to understand them better, not as the "them" that's trying to destroy us, but as people, like "us," who are just doing the best they can with what they're given.
Am I just making excuses when I talk like this? Am I being defeatist?
HKCavalier
Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don'
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Quote:Yep. And I loved that scene in Jurassic Park where Ellie was yelling at John about control. A real message amongst the dino antics.
Originally posted by HKCavalier:
The fabulous little "they" you've included me in with Messrs Isall and T and Mses Mite and Sky are all people, I believe, who have a deep appreciation for the folly, the danger, of too much of this longing for control.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
Frem, maybe be less oblique in your responses. I sometimes have trouble in working out what the point is you are trying to make.
I don't have an issue with people defending themselves, but using violence against violence always strikes me as a bit of a strange one. If you meet violence head on with violence, you run the risk of a lot of collatoral damage.
There is that.
I was hoping to inspire a certain introspection and see if anyone else would make the same connections and if they internalized them - cause basing on that understanding we could get down to the nitty-gritty, but apparently I've been too vague and failed here, and thus will have to spell it out, and try to do it without lecturing/pontificating, and keep a grip on my temper, and try to be rational about it....
*sigh*
Not gonna be easy that, and it deserves a far better treatment than I am likely to give it, but I will try, okay ?
Might take a bit, post New Years disaster cleanup, and seeing to the pet of someone here in the hospital due to a medical issue, which isn't technically part of my job, but given my affinity for animals, well...
Speakin of, in the meantime here's a picture of Molly, since she was trying to "help" while I was TRYING to take pictures of something else, little attention whore.
-Frem
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Quote:
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
But what I'm kinda thinking of is there's this condescending attitude towards women, like if a lady starts throwing ceramic-ware and beer bottles at her boyfriend's head, it seems to get laughed off and nobody ever does anything about it because 1) the guy is perceived to have deserved it 2) the girl is just a girl and not a threat, and 3) women are a mystery.
The guy probably doesn't own up to being scratched up by a hellcat or bruised by her hitting him unless the cops get involved for a domestic disturbance call. And then domestic abuse is probably not likely to get called on the girl unless she's like my aunt and she and her husband have broken each other's ribs in a fistfight on the kitchen floor. It seems to have to be really serious for the woman to be implicated in domestic abuse.
I think there is some truth here. It doesn't even up the numbers, but it does men that male victims of family violence get a raw deal and are often not taken seriously.
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Quote:
Do you really think there are military operatives striking deals with game designers to promote a murderous culture? You think that's why a game like Grand Theft Auto exists? And yeah, as Anthony said, if that's all true, what the heck are we gonna do to combat it?
At least one game has been sponsered by the American military, and some others do their work.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/America%27s_Army
http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2009/11/19/video-games-effe
ctive-form-of-recruitment-for-army.aspx
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Quote:
And yeah, as Anthony said, if that's all true, what the heck are we gonna do to combat it?
Hello,
Apparently, ban various media.
The righteous are so often willing to do the hard work that the unjust villains can't do themselves.
--Anthony
Note to Self:
Raptor - woman testifying about birth control is a slut (the term applies.)
Context: http://tinyurl.com/d6ozfej
Six - Wow, isn't Niki quite the CUNT? And, yes, I spell that in all caps....
http://tinyurl.com/bdjgbpe
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.
Context: http://tinyurl.com/afve3r9
“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -T. S. Szasz
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HKC... while I appreciate your deep psychological insight, it will not stop foreclosures and unemployment. There is indeed an "us" and a "them". All you have to do is look around and see that the world isn't functioning for most people, that most wealth floats to those produce the least but who are masterful at placing themselves at the carotid of a some vital societal function... trade, work, communication... and sucking the lifeblood out of it. No deep insight and inner balance is going to erase that.
What does government do? Throughout history, it's main function has been to distribute "excess" wealth. Government and wealth have always been tied together. But how does one get others to accept unequal sharing? You can't control everyone with force. There has to be some minimum buy-in, the society needs to share common paradigms and memes about what is "right", what is "good", who is supposed to do what, who gets the rewards, who is protected.
That Indian woman who was raped and beaten and tossed out of a bus on her head... Do you know why there is such an outcry?? Because she was a med student, an upper caste woman of the middle class. This kind of thing... it's not supposed to happen to med students. But it happens all the time to Dalit teenagers, those rapes are even photographed by the rapists and STILL the conviction rate is very low and nobody cares.
So the answer is: Yes, there is a "culture-wide conspiracy". There is one in India, there's a different one here, another in Russia, pretty much all over the world and throughout history. And if you look at the bases for each one, it's almost universally in favor of those in power. I wonder why.
I'm not angry. I don't even understand why you would see it that way.
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I'm aware of that, M. And one or two or five examples doesn't change a dang thing, does it? What do you think is going on here?
A lot of software gets it start in some branch of military R&D, a lot of tech does, period. The internet itself started out as a military application. Does that mean we should get rid of our computers?
It's still a leap of some magnitude, I think, from there to a coordinated propaganda campaign that's destroying our culture and turning our youth into addicts. Are you onboard with Signy's analysis?
HKCavalier
Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.
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Quote:Is THIS an effort to be comical? PEOPLE would have the right to "broadcast", via internet, their art works, productions, opinions etc. I specifically said that the internet should be free. How does that impinge on your freedom? I thought that was guaranteed?
Hello, Is this an attempt to be comical? You would remove the rights of people to broadcast? To consume their favored programs via paid cable services?
Quote:Well, nothing prevents you from buying whatever is on the net.
To consume their favored programs via paid cable services?
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HKC... You're confusing what I said. I didn't say it was a COORDINATED propaganda campaign. It's always a question... is this a conspiracy or a club? Sometimes it's a little of both. Those in power share certain assumptions about why they should be in power. Those out of power are taught certain assumptions about why this should be so. Sometimes it crosses over into outright conspiracy... sometimes it's just the government preventing certain embarrassing events from being disseminated. Businesses directing the conversation away from their clay feet. Advertising making billions by making people more tractable. Yanno, protecting "their" interests.
As to the FORM of communication... broadcast is centralized and top-down. It's like the church or the school telling you how and what to think. Those are all forms of social control.
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