Food Stamps tomorrow......
POSTED BY: 6ixStringJack
UPDATED: Saturday, May 13, 2023 21:12
VIEWED: 23782
PAGE 1 of 2
Add one more to the "1-in-7" Americans on food stamps next year.
Why not add one more? It's so popular now that the humiliation I'd feel using that card every time is practically unfounded. In 4 years from now the use will be so prevalent that you'll be the outcast if you're not using that card to buy food.
Instead of hearing "Cash, Debit or Link" at Aldi, we'll hear "Link, Debit or Cash". Anyone watching you pay with cash will automatically resent you flaunting your "wealth" and you'd be under-equipped to deal with potential situations in the parking-lot with a meager .22.
Welcome to the brave new world.
Thank you, GWB, the harbinger of doom. Not only did you F-UP this country so bad in only 8 years that an inexperienced tool of the Crook-County-Chicago political machine get voted in on empty promises, but even after 4 years of every single aspect of this one great nation being pummeled to dust except for the ever growing deficit, we get another 4 years of unchecked debt to China like your last 4 unchecked egregious breaches of our personal liberties.
In my mind, believe it or not, YOU GWB, are actually still the worst president we've ever had. On top of all of your other faults and flaws, we now have 8 years of hands off destruction of our country and the free world through your successor.
One in the chamber of this .45 always.... Probably won't be long until taking the silver pill is better than existing amongst the zombies.
I can't even afford to help my struggling brother, let alone a family of my own. I will not take government cheese and be swayed subsequently by their votes.
8k left now and dwindling.
When my uncle swallowed the silver pill, he had only 87 cents left in his bank account, but was proud that he lived with zero debt. That was 8 years ago, and although he left me his journal I've never read it. I think now is the time to understand the true him.
I will not leave this world with nothing. When the money is gone, there's still the house with minimal taxes. I have somebody to care about in death, even if I can't care for them in life. I'm writing my living will tomorrow.
1) DO NOT RESUSCITATE.
2) ALL of the proceeds from the sale of my house goes to my brother, if an agreement isn't made with the rest of the family to keep him sustained while living here.
3) The house is paid for and taxes are minimal. If you can't collectively come to some agreement with your abundance of wealth to keep him afloat, well.... enjoy the rest of purgatory before your fiery eternity.
That is all....
"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." ~Shepherd Book
a chara. can't reply. you alone know the real me.
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A Jack a chara,
It sounds like things are sucking brick in your life right now. I know that using government programs is something you don't want to do. I hope you've still got that job you were talking about there for a while, are you still working there?
Writing a living will is a good idea, because then your family knows what to do. But I hope that they won't have to face that stuff anytime soon, I know they care about you and want to see you live much much longer. I wish you well in reading your uncle's journal, maybe now is the time to read it, I can see not doing something like that until the time is right. But when you read it pace yourself, or do whatever you need to in order to be okay afterwords, its probably going to hurt a lot you know? But after you read it I want to still see ya around.
And write back to my PM, are you getting them? I've written two but think maybe you're not getting them since I use the blue site. Let me know.
"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya
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I get every one of your posts, to email, but I can't respond..... says something like "blah blah blah" not here.
Left a hint for you in my last post under the sig
:)
Thanks for being one of the only people who gives a shit about more then themselves.
"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." ~Shepherd Book
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I have a new ship for the board shipping grid!
I will write hearts all around it.
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Oh Byte love is in the air. :) I get a kick out of your ... wait, you have a grid?! :)
Please make me the dominant partner and Jack can call me Memsahib sometimes. :)
"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya
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I know it's totally funny
Unfortunately, 8/10'ths of the crazies you talk to are gone.....
Hope you are really attractive RA....
2 Obama means half the food for everyone
"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." ~Shepherd Book
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Boy did I miss this thread..
Did you lose yer job? What happened?
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Go to the local animal "shelter" and save 10 pets from do not resucitate.
Then go to your local strip club and save a hooker hottie.
That is all.
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AH! Here you are! Wallowing in self pity in the real world.
I gess you havent felt up to long ramblingz in your Mindless Rambling topic.
Youre all bummed out kuz Obama got re-elected? You only got 8K$ left in the bank? Your bro iz messed up?
Dude, your sitting pretty compared to me.
Yesterday I found out that my billion dollar invention wuz invented in 1981, so I wasted about 2,000 hourz over the last couple yirz making prototypes, prints and trying to find a company to buy it.
So no paying off my 1/4 million in det. No new weelz and rear tirez for a wile. Didnt hav much regular work for the last few weeks and got about 400 left in the bank, so will probably start falling behind on the billz next month. I'm perpetually 2 steps away frum living in a van down by the river.
My sister, mom and dad are barely functional mentally. My brother never ansrz the fone and rarely callz. My 2 'best frendz' are idiots. I hav 8 cats and a bunch uv assorted wildlife animlz that depend on me for food.
Havent had a girlfrend in decadez kuz ordinary wimin arent attractive to me.
All in all, its like I landed on the rong planet. Wut I want I cant hav and wut I hav to offer nobody wants.
And youre suicidal kuz Obama got re-elected. seriously dude.
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DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early
http://www.nooalf.com
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Hello,
If you can improve on the already invented invention, you can still patent and make a fortune.
--Anthony
Note to Self:
Raptor - woman testifying about birth control is a slut (the term applies.)
Context: http://tinyurl.com/d6ozfej
Six - Wow, isn't Niki quite the CUNT? And, yes, I spell that in all caps....
http://tinyurl.com/bdjgbpe
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.
Context: http://tinyurl.com/afve3r9
“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -T. S. Szasz
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Deepest sympathy, Jo, wish I could help. We all hang on as best we can, some have more resources, some have less. I understand being bummed out, but to go on self-pitying, at-least-slightly-insane rants like this thread is pretty pathetic.
Gawd, how many people who don't want to be have turned to food stamps since Dubya ran us into the ditch?!?! Millions, yet somehow Obama being re-elected is cause for...oh, screw it, I've ignored this thread for this long, I'll go back to doing so. Nice of you to try to offer some perspective, anyway, is all I wanted to say. Good luck!
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Anthony, I second that comment. Also I sympathize with both parties. Sort of, in an ennui of existence kind of way, as opposed to the specifics.
I would add: Jack made a series of drunken and possibly embarrassing posts two weeks ago about problems he's going through. I haven't seen him back since then. There are two possibilities, one which I'm concerned about but won't say aloud, and the other is that he simply has not wanted to post.
Speaking from personal experience, encouraging him to try to open up or cheer up or play misery loves company is not what Jack needs, although I imagine the inquiries and efforts were well meaning.
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Thanks for the segjestion Anthony. And everybody, I hav to add that I'm not bummed out, really. I just wanted to help 6string get sum perspectiv.
Az long az I can watch my showz and moviez, I'm happy. Just finished a week uv Firefly this morning with the Serenity blue ray. (side note: the DVD version uv the seriez iz better, kuz BR operationz suk and the picture quality iz the same for the show)
About the invention, its still a tremendous manufacturing oportunity, so I may still be able to make sumthing with it. I just dont get to get rich kwik.
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DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early
http://www.nooalf.com
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I got the perspective part Jo, and I think everyone else did to. You didn't come across as self-pitying, just a statement that many have it better, many have it worse than all of us. To which I agree; we've felt the pinch too, and with Jim no longer able to work and hoping to quit in a couple of months, things will get REAL iffy around here in some respects. We can get by, but big stuff like replacing the dryer (which we are doing today) or car repairs--or REPLACEMENTS--are going to be questionable.
We all have our crosses to bear, and we've all been hurt by the country having been driven into a ditch. Well, all of us but the very rich and Wall Street, which seem to have gotten back on their feet pretty well fairly quickly. We should all be so lucky.
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Sorry youre near the ej also, NIKI. America haz been getting drained for 35 yirz so most peepl are 1 breakdown away frum bankruptsy. Trickle down my ass!
Wut the GoPs (pronounce GoP like top)dont realize iz that the so called 'job creatorz' will never hire anybody they dont hav to or at least want to. Werevr the workerz are cheapest iz where they go and with automation getting cheaper all the time, they eventually wont need to hire anybody. So how will the wealth get distributed?
The invention iz a low cost linear motion device. It can make droidz az affordable az carz. There are also piezo electric linear motorz that coud possibly get much cheaper and electroconstrictive materialz that coud be made into artificial musclez sum day. So wen droidz that can function in all the jobz we do now without any special consideration, construction and service jobz are going away.
We hav actually been tranzitioning to a laborless society for centuryz. Its wut civilization haz been working toward and the job iz almost dun.
We need a new way to distribute the wealth bekuz the work for pay thing iz going away.
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DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early
http://www.nooalf.com
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Jack. Tell us you're okay, okay?
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I would second Chris' comment. That would quickly alleviate my concerns.
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Jack emailed me yesterday, he's still kickin, just not spending as much time online lately.
Joe I sure hope you can get somewhere with your invention, I'm assuming your invention isn't the Nooalf? Because if it is then I don't think its going too far, but if its something else you might still have a chance of positive success. I hope your family is doing okay, and as to the woman thing, some people have particular tastes and so not just anyone will suit them, keep looking if romance is what you seek. But it also sounds like you're reasonably content without, which is good too.
"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya
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Thanks for the info. I gess he'z just angry andor embarrassed about being fooled by Fox.
No, its not Nooalf. I gess you missed my last post. Its a linear motion device. I'll probably add it to my [url] http://www.zolkorp.com/PRoJeKS.html] paje.
About women, or luv in general, really. The world woud be a much better place if everybody followed my stratejy: Decide wut you want in a mate and dont comprimize.
Uv course, that haz a distinct evolutionary disadvantaj, kuz your typical no-standardz Jerry Springer gest will produce far more offspring. But on a personal level, it makes for a simpler life.
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DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early
http://www.nooalf.com
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Oh man, Riona, do I have to break out all these nudges and winks? Whoops, there they go.
That's good though. If he's spending less time on the computer he's probably getting his priorities straight.
Quote:
Decide wut you want in a mate and dont comprimize.
...Does that work? I was under the impression that you have ultimately maybe a 20 mile radius dating pool, I kinda figured that settling was pretty much the order of the day and that most people are kinda majorly same anyway.
I dunno man, if you start getting too specific or you have all these biases, I have some southern cousins that would've never married latina girls because of their dad's racism.
The more you try to find someone that fits in a little gift-wrapped box that's just perfect for you, the more they're squirm their way the hell outta that box and the more frustrating your courtship will be. I think what usually happens is people get surprised and blindsided by this stuff and get totes into something they weren't expecting. Otherwise considering the friction that usually arises between too similar personalities, I'm not even sure how our species manages to breed.
Well, technically I'm not sure how we manage to breed ANYWAY, but incompatibility elevates it to "mystery of the universe" status.
Quote:
Uv course, that haz a distinct evolutionary disadvantaj, kuz your typical no-standardz Jerry Springer gest will produce far more offspring.
There are a number of misconceptions in this sentence. Let me just suggest that the movie Idiocracy is not actually an accurate reflection on human population dynamics or evolutionary pressures.
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Things I need in a mate:
I need someone who is a Christian because I am and I think people do better when they hook up with people who believe similarly to them, whatever those beliefs may be. I need someone who at least tollerates my faire passion, my trad singing, my Irish accent (chosen) my Firefly interests, the fact that I do pretends and will camp with me and likes to watch me swim or swim with me. I need someone who likes some or all of these things so they will do some of them with me. I need someone who likes cooking, because I sure don't, or can afford going out all the time. I really need someone who drives since I can't. I need someone who wants to stay local here, I'm not moving away from the area. I need someone who doesn't want to make babies with me because I refuse to have them. If he has babies already with someone else that is okay with me, in fact that could be best because then he'll have that procreation thing out of his system.
What I want is a little more negotiable, obviously I don't think I'll find a guy who meets all my needs let alone all my wants, so this whole conversation is kind of pointless, I've accepted that I probably won't find someone and that is okay, but I surely wish I could someday. We'll see what happens.
"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya
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Call me hopless, but I think all you need is love.
I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.
A warning to everyone, AURaptor is a known liar.
...and now a Fundie!
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=53359
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Quote:
likes to watch me swim or swim with me
Somehow I doubt that one'll be a problem, provided the guy in question is into girls.
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Quote:
Originally posted by RionaEire:
What I want is a little more negotiable, obviously I don't think I'll find a guy who meets all my needs let alone all my wants, so this whole conversation is kind of pointless, I've accepted that I probably won't find someone and that is okay, but I surely wish I could someday. We'll see what happens.
HA! I forgot you are a girl! (hard to keep trak uv peeps youv never seen or heard)
I also dont want kidz. My worst nitemare! My no comprimize stratejy helps avoid it.
Actually, 'no comprimize' iznt correct. Its really a minimum standard. For me, its about shape, mostly. My ideal chick woud be 5' 7", 47 20 40, big blue eyez and blond, but I woudnt be able to rezist a woman uv any race, eye and hair color with a shape like that. (WOW haz this topic digressed!) But I've seen women that arent quite that shapely that I'd settle for.
I actually met Pandora Peaks many yirz ago.
[url]]
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DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early
http://www.nooalf.com
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Buh... Her back. How?! Where does she keep her spine?! Alien shapeshifting, eldritch power, fey glamour, surgical malfeasance, anti-grav boots. Leaning towards lovecraft because of the assault on my logic center. The sky is orange madness madness ow
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Quote:
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
There are a number of misconceptions in this sentence. Let me just suggest that the movie Idiocracy is not actually an accurate reflection on human population dynamics or evolutionary pressures.
Great movie. I've seen it quite a few timez.
I'm not an expert on evolution, but az far az I can tell, the basic premise uv the movie iz valid. Its a big taboo to say so, but there iz plenty uv current and historical evidence that supports the idea that dum people will produce dum offspring. And the environment we hav created for ourselvez haz removed risk to a great degree. You arent going to get eaten by a tiger for making a stupid mistake.
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DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early
http://www.nooalf.com
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Quote:
dum people will produce dum offspring.
Poor educational conditions produces dumb people. The average genetically encoded difference in brain size between all people, male or female and any race is within 200 ccs, provided we're not talking a physical structural deformity or hydrocephaly. More importantly, the approximate number of neurons between people is very similar. The differences between human capacity for intelligence is MINISCULE. The only DIFFERENCE is in what each person USES.
You want to talk to me like the person vegging out on the couch watching Jerry Springer is the same as one of the darwin awards, and that their offspring are worthless. No. I will NOT give nonsense genetics and population dynamics arguments from the goddamn 1920s about morons and imbeciles a free pass. This does not FLY. Update your theories please. This world is garbage, but that doesn't mean that most of the people in it are - they all have the same potential.
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Thank you, Byte, for showing more grace and patience than I can muster at the moment.
"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero
"I was wrong" - Hero, 2012
Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"
Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."
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The reason that uneducated people seem to produce "dumb" offspring is because they often don't see the point in education, and thus their kids aren't encouraged to succede academically, thus making more "dumb" people. Its also possible for people who value education and advancement to produce kids who turn out to be hicks, my older brother for example, if I didn't know better I would think he was raised by white trash parents. So reasonably intelligent people can have "dumb" kids. Similarly totally uneducated people can raise a kid who grows up to graduate college and be quite successful if they encourage education and ambition. Any child (assuming neurotypicality, or even some lack there of depending on the circumstances) can grow up and be smart and successful, its circumstances, oppertunity, encouragement and inner drive that make the difference.
"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya
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Like I sed - very taboo.
But, Byte, you dont need to get riled up. I sed nothing about dum people or Springer fanz being worthless.
Equating brain size to intelligence can be misleading. There iz sum vague, unreliable, general correlation, but obviously, Marylin Vos Savant duznt hav a watermellon size hed, and Glen Beck's iz bigger than a grape.
Equating intelligence and education iz also unreliable. If I got paid based on how much smarter I wuz than the engineerz I worked with, I coud hav retired 15 yirz ago. How many educated idiots hav you known?
Brainz are alot like computerz. Size duznt mean much. Speed, efficiency and software mean more. How many different elements can it handle at the same time and how quickly?
And yes, dum people can produce smart children, but its less likely. Just az speciez hav their limits, groups within a speciez are also variable. Its very unlikely, for example, that a baby chimp will grow up to be a nuclear scientist and even less likely that a kitten will.
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DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early
http://www.nooalf.com
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Quote:
Equating brain size to intelligence can be misleading. There iz sum vague, unreliable, general correlation
Actually, my point was there's not. 200 ccs is not much different, and even with a size difference the number of neurons are pretty similar. It's the neurons that are more important. The connections, as you were saying. Not the size.
I'm getting riled up because I don't like to see that kind of dismissiveness about most of the people on this world. They came into the same way the rest of us did, and have the same right to be here. There less than a percent of difference between each human genetically. This idea that some people are superior to others, I take a very major issue with.
Education can fail people either from disenfranchising them from learning or by brainwashing them into an unthinking fool. But even the same, education is the way out of both states, and it was a flaw in the education received that led them there.
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Unless, are you prepared to argue that all women are dumber than men on the basis of brain size? Because that's where this is heading. Making assessments about the inherent qualities and abilities of humans groups based on disproven and irrelevant factors. Extrapolating that into offensive judgements about human population dynamics. Do you think I haven't heard these arguments before? Do you think I don't know better?
It's not taboo, it's nonsense. And if you want to question MY intelligence, you are going to get some RESISTANCE.
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I heard that Einstein's brain was a little smaller than average when they disected it, so I don't think this brainsize theory holds water.
"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya
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Funny how peeple can hear and read wut they expect insted uv wuts actually there.
And wut do you hav against all the other speciez on the planet, Byte?
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DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early
http://www.nooalf.com
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And if it's not brain size, it's trying to correlate intelligence with reproductive rate and social class.
Hey, maybe the next group determined to be really dumb will be browncoats! Bunch of blue-collar and middle class folks vegging out about a television show for ten years.
Maybe JO753 shouldn't be so quick to sneeringly dismiss people's intelligence. People want to pat themselves on the back and call themselves smart because only stupid people reproduce and they haven't managed it yet, then congratulations to them for taking themselves out of the gene pool.
At least I'm willing to admit the reason I haven't reproduced is because other people find me INTOLERABLE.
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Other SPECIES? So different types of humans are whole other SPECIES now?
Goddamn. I'm done with this. Enjoy your offensive theories about your SUPERIORITY, I'll be laughing when it implodes.
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Hey 6string! Still checking in here?
I got a job for you!
I need sumwun with zero or greater salez talent to get theze Nooalf Super Mini Charts into kidz handz.
Grammar skoolz, preskoolz, daycare centerz, homeskoolerz.
It may be new for you, out uv your comfort zone, but wut the hell; your lifes ambition wuznt being a security guard either.
Quote:
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
...we get another 4 years of unchecked debt to China
China actually holdz only 8% uv our public det. They are the largest and all foriegn holderz add up to 32%.
Duz that cheer you up a little?
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DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early
http://www.nooalf.com
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I'll probably get reamed for this, but I think you're misunderstanding to a degree, Byte. I don't think there was any inference that there are different "species" among homo sapiens, and I don't think Jo was saying what you think he was.
Brain size means nothing, from what I've read. At the same time, there IS some evidence that intelligence can be genetic, to a degree. There's a huge difference as well between "dumb" and "uneducated". Sometimes people can seem dumb, but it's only because they're uneducated.
And smarts doesn't make one "superior" at all, in my opinion. One of the problems with bipolarity is that, although we tended to have higher IQs than "the average bear", our EQs are usually MUCH lower. Smart isn't the entire measure of a person in my opinion, not by far. Some of the smartest people I've ever known are completely clueless assholes. I guess it's how you measure things...for my mom, it WAS intelligence. When describing someone she liked, there was always "and he's so smart" in there somewhere--and it's probably something I picked upon subconsciously which encouraged me to fail at school out of resentment.
One can have a lower IQ and be a wonderful person; or a higher IQ and be a piece of shit, in other words. EQ and so much more come into it.
At any rate, I do think you're getting kind of "head up" and, in my opinion, judgmental, of Jo. I haven't read the entire thread, but it seems to me that he's just expressing his opinions, that's all, and we're all free to have our own opinions. Just my two cents worth...
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Quote:
At the same time, there IS some evidence that intelligence can be genetic, to a degree.
If you mean everyone with normal brain function has the potential to be intelligent, then yes, our entire species has evolved with a general preselection for intelligence and that is genetic. Anything else I call out as the same kind of stuff that JO753 was on about. Which I recall arguing about with people here before.
Maybe I think ranking people on the basis of intelligence is an inherently questionable practice? That it has been proven unscientific many times over? But no, *I'M* wrong on this. Sure. He calls his opinion taboo and politically incorrect to say, and you all don't see it as a blatantly obvious dodge, or consider his statements on the basis that they fly in the face of a veritable land slide of contradicting information that determined the old studies about group intelligence and population dynamics that these ideas are based on were biased and flawed and discriminatory. You think I'm being HARD on the guy for pointing this out, as well as pointing out the unfortunate history these ideas have had.
And ultimately it's because you agree with him. Have a nice day.
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Thanks for the support, NIKI2.
Sorry if I hit a sore spot, Byte. I think if you reread wut I've ritten, you'll calm down a bit.
I've known sum people way smarter than me and got a good idea uv the practical difference. They could interpolate more variablez at the same time to figure thingz out than I coud and the thingz I coud handle they coud usually do it way faster.
Many yirz ago there wuz this IQ test in Omni magazine. It wuz suppozedly the most difficult ever devized. I took about a week to do the 1st problem. My brother, whoz a little smarter than I, figured it out in less than an owr and wuz able to do the next 3 or 4 problemz, wich got progressivly harder. I coudnt even start to do the 2nd wun.
About different ethnic groups, you hav to face the facts. Nobody gets angry about blacks being better athletes, but suggest that people uv mid european origin and asianz are more likely to hav a very hi IQ than otherz and rite away youre a a racist bastard.
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DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early
http://www.nooalf.com
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It doesn't end. I blame this on everyone.
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Quote:
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:Quote:
At the same time, there IS some evidence that intelligence can be genetic, to a degree.
If you mean everyone with normal brain function has the potential to be intelligent, then yes, our entire species has evolved with a general preselection for intelligence and that is genetic. Anything else I call out as the same kind of stuff that JO753 was on about. Which I recall arguing about with people here before.
Maybe I think ranking people on the basis of intelligence is an inherently questionable practice? That it has been proven unscientific many times over? But no, *I'M* wrong on this. Sure. He calls his opinion taboo and politically incorrect to say, and you all don't see it as a blatantly obvious dodge, or consider his statements on the basis that they fly in the face of a veritable land slide of contradicting information that determined the old studies about group intelligence and population dynamics that these ideas are based on were biased and flawed and discriminatory. You think I'm being HARD on the guy for pointing this out, as well as pointing out the unfortunate history these ideas have had.
And ultimately it's because you agree with him. Have a nice day.
I don't agree with him, and think he dodged, or better stated backed away from what he was saying.
I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.
A warning to everyone, AURaptor is a known liar.
...and now a Fundie!
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=53359
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Wut did I back away frum?
Byte, frum wut you hav ritten, it seemz you believe people with properly functioning brainz are all basicly uv equivelent intelligence. True?
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DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early
http://www.nooalf.com
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Quote:
About different ethnic groups, you hav to face the facts. Nobody gets angry about blacks being better athletes, but suggest that people uv mid european origin and asianz are more likely to hav a very hi IQ than otherz and rite away youre a a racist bastard.
That I certainly DO NOT agree with. It's been disproven time and time again; that some continue to hold that belief is very sad. There are tons of things that come into play when one measures IQ--which is a question in and unto itself, but I'll let that slide--which have nothing to do with genetics. I'm not going to waste my time going into them, but I believe, and studies have shown, that any human can excell if all the variables are modified. The African-Americans I have known have all achieved highly-respected careers like lawyers and supervisors, and were a hell of a lot smarter than me!
That this belief persists is depressing to me, as it creates further roadblocks to equality and recognition of other human beings as just other human beings...some with highly different backgrounds, but that's all.
On the other hand, Byte, try to calm down if you can. You've taken something and run with it pretty nastily, where it's not warranted, and I'd ppreciate it if you'd lay off me. I've expressed an opinion, so has Jo, so have you...we're all entitled to our opinions without you getting nasty about it. If you have enough self-control at the moment to retain your civility.
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Quote:
You've taken something and run with it pretty nastily, where it's not warranted, and I'd ppreciate it if you'd lay off me.
Because it was obvious where JO753 was coming from! Do you think that post about the blacks and asians was a surprise to me? I knew that's what they were getting at! Because these ideas about genetic intellectual superiority all came about from this!
This is what I'm trying to warn you all about. Ignore me if you will, but on these stances I absolutely MUST be uncivil, because to allow these ideas to go uncontested is to allow past mistakes to happen again. On this I will not budge.
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You hav made a claim that genetic variation in intelligence haz been debunked. Show me the evidence.
Therez a myth that gets fed to children about equality - 'we are all created equal' and 'you can be anything you want if you just work hard enuf'.
Its a comforting notion. For most people, anyway.
To me, it denyz the importance uv talent and cauzez people to actively devalue it. A foundation block in the wall uv conformity.
The big lie uv our educational system iz that anybody can go get a degree in any subject and be just az good az anybody else at it with the same degree. Not only duz that trap people in careerz they will never be any good at, it obstructs otherz from the career they hav the talent for.
Society woud be much better if we accept the fact that talent iz a variable in not just singing and sports, but also endevourz involving intelligence.
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DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early
http://www.nooalf.com
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Quote:
Originally posted by JO753:
Wut did I back away frum?
You went from...
Quote:
Originally posted by JO753:Its a big taboo to say so, but there iz plenty uv current and historical evidence that supports the idea that dum people will produce dum offspring.
to...
Quote:
Originally posted by JO753:And yes, dum people can produce smart children, but its less likely. Just az speciez hav their limits, groups within a speciez are also variable. Its very unlikely, for example, that a baby chimp will grow up to be a nuclear scientist and even less likely that a kitten will.
That is backing off.
I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.
A warning to everyone, AURaptor is a known liar.
...and now a Fundie!
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=53359
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Quote:
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:Quote:
You've taken something and run with it pretty nastily, where it's not warranted, and I'd ppreciate it if you'd lay off me.
Because it was obvious where JO753 was coming from! Do you think that post about the blacks and asians was a surprise to me? I knew that's what they were getting at! Because these ideas about genetic intellectual superiority all came about from this!
This is what I'm trying to warn you all about. Ignore me if you will, but on these stances I absolutely MUST be uncivil, because to allow these ideas to go uncontested is to allow past mistakes to happen again. On this I will not budge.
Thank you for that, Byte. And I repeat, you've been MUCH more civil in this than I could be.
"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero
"I was wrong" - Hero, 2012
Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"
Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."
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I could counter with one study and you could counter with the opposite position because these same flawed ethnocentric studies are still produced.
But if I'm to create a coherent argument against your ideas, I will start with this. A balanced look at both sides of the nature and nurture debate.
http://mrhinkley.com/blag/IntUnknown.pdf
You think I devalue the true talents of this world by believing everyone really does start out with equal potential (though possibly different manifestations), you think I'm naive. First of all, you should know I'm about as far from an optimist as exists on this board, in fact I am the worst example of misanthropy and cynicism you will likely ever meet. But second - I do not think of all humanity as beautiful unique snowflakes, but I do think your perspective devalues all HUMANITY, as opposed to elevates the outliers, who WORKED HARD TO BECOME SO.
The reason we are inspired by the best of us is not because their achievements are unobtainable, but because they are human. And as humans, we all stand on the shoulders of giants.
As for believing that we can decrease conformity and increase happiness by knowing our limitations: "Oh brave new world, that has such people in it."
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Why does it seem more common for African Americans to excell in sports than European Americans? I think its because of cultural values and expectations, sport is highly regarded and encouraged and thus the kids take to it and go farther with it. Why does it seem like all those Asian American kids tend to excel at academics? Because culturally achieving scholastic excellence is a top priority. Thus those kids are pushed to excel in school by their parents, community members and peers.
There is more genetic variation among people of the same ethnicity than their is between ethnicities. Of course their are some things that do very, skin color, physical charactoristics, but everything else is pretty much the same. That isn't to say that certain people aren't better at things than others, but that variety exists in every ethnicity just as much or more than it does between ethnicities.
"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya
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Quote:
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
Because it was obvious where JO753 was coming from! Do you think that post about the blacks and asians was a surprise to me? I knew that's what they were getting at! Because these ideas about genetic intellectual superiority all came about from this!
This is what I'm trying to warn you all about. Ignore me if you will, but on these stances I absolutely MUST be uncivil, because to allow these ideas to go uncontested is to allow past mistakes to happen again. On this I will not budge.
Damn straight.
Funny thing this reminded me of though, about intelligence not necessarily being USEFUL sometimes - I was a very, very smart kid, this did no favors for my already increasingly bad attitude, misanthropy and cynicism, but I recall in the later years of elementary school facing some extreme frustration over the problem of being unable to APPLY that intellect effectively cause I lacked the necessary skills to do so!
That totally and severely pissed me off, mind you.
And if "school" was going to hold out on me, I'd damn well cultivate them myself - to which I started building things, poorly, to begin with, but soon enough with enough skill to make people nervous considering what some of those things were and my habit of trying to weaponize them.
My mother wisely diverted that course by offering to teach me domestic skills, and both of these things have served me extremely well all my life.
Also, on the notion of parentage and environment having an affect, I'd say not as much as one thinks, case in point being my entire family is downright racist - I thought this was asinine when I was six, and my opinion of it ain't improved a whit in the intervening years...
Not to mention they're all a pack of somewhat clever but as a rule not too bright hillbilly jackasses, and I stole only the best parts of that.
Anyhows, intellect itself is not enough, especially without the means to apply it - you could have a car with 900 horsepower, but if you have a crummy, flimsy three speed automatic you're not gonna get much use out of it are you now ?
-Frem
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Quote:
Originally posted by RionaEire:
Why does it seem more common for African Americans to excell in sports than European Americans?
I think it seems that way because of which sports are the most popular. I can name a few sports where Black people are few and far between.
I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.
A warning to everyone, AURaptor is a known liar.
...and now a Fundie!
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=53359
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Humanz! Foooey! Ignoring evidence iz like a competition for you!
I didnt back off, M52, I elaborated.
Let me clarify now.
The various groups have their own bell curves. They all overlap, but they certainly are not identical.
Just look at which group haz contributed the overwelming majority uv scientific and teknolojikl advancez.
Look at the conditionz in the nationz uv the world. Iz Mexico or Ethiopia or even Saudi Arabia about to plant a flag on the moon? Even if they did it tomorrow, wuts the excuse for being 53 yirz late?
Culture can account for alot uv the difference, but that will only lead to the question uv why did the culture get to be such a hinderance to begin with. Wut woud society look like if everybody wuz twice az smart?
People like to do thingz they are good at. They dont like to do thingz they are bad at.
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DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early
http://www.nooalf.com
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Okay mister claims, cite those different bell curves. Next cite the evidence that indicates that the difference in those curves are caused by genetics. Finally show evidence that those countries have not reached the moon because of overall lower genetic intelligence and not economic conditions.
I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.
A warning to everyone, AURaptor is a known liar.
...and now a Fundie!
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Did you even read the study I posted? That was put together by the APA and representatives from leading colleges and addresses a number of your points? No, I'm sure you didn't.
If you have no intention of discussing anything or having a genuine back and forth conversation, might I suggest heading over to stormfront? I imagine you'd fit RIGHT in.
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I think his writing in Nooalf has adversely affected his ability to read and understand proper writing.
I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.
A warning to everyone, AURaptor is a known liar.
...and now a Fundie!
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=53359
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Chances are his ideas about race and nationalism, which for his sake I'll mention aren't the same thing BTW, well predate his involvement in NOOALF.
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http://pat.tamu.edu/journal/vol-1/thompson.pdf
Quote:
The purpose of scientific racism is very simple. It is a deliberate attempt to justify and protect a system that allows the exploitation of “inferior” people so that “superior” people can reap economic and political rewards (Marshall, 125). In the United States, a major target of scientific racism was the black population. Both esteemed and unscrupulous scientists alike wrote and believed in these racist theories that served to justify the American system of ante-bellum slavery and post-bellum segregated education.
Quote:
The myth of intellectual inferiority is still not dispelled today. Recent “scientific” studies such as The Bell Curve (1994) continue to assert that blacks do not have an equal capacity of intelligence as whites.
JO753 sez: But blacks are just dummer than whites, and people don't like doin' stuff they ain't good at. So we should all assign them manual labour, 'kuz that's an aktivity tailored to their spessifik ability and their athletik talents, and evrywun will be happy.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/NotSoInnocentWhistle
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Quote:
Originally posted by FREMDFIRMA:
Anyhows, intellect itself is not enough, especially without the means to apply it - you could have a car with 900 horsepower, but if you have a crummy, flimsy three speed automatic you're not gonna get much use out of it are you now ?
-Frem
Ahem.
Sorry, couldn't resist.
"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero
"I was wrong" - Hero, 2012
Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"
Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."
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Yes, I red sum uv the report, Byte. You, however, seem to hav skipped section 5.
You shoud also consider that its getting stale. Its from 1996 and most uv the referencez substantially older. It briefly mentions fMRI, wich wuz just beginning to be used for studying the workingz uv the brain back then.
M52.
There wuz a big controversy wen [url] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bell_Curve] came out bekuz uv the racial component. If you can think uv a good alternate explanation for the "% of children w/IQ in bottom decile (mothers)" in the 1st chart, I'd like to hear it.
If you search Google images for 'IQ graphs for races' youll get a bunch that are all showing the same basic trend. (I had the link here, but it ran my post off the ej uv the window. Haken haz sum work to do here)
Clicking on the 1st wun there and a few otherz, I can see how you are probably lumping me in with bigots and idiots, Byte. The guy even spellz a little like me!
----------------------------
DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early
http://www.nooalf.com
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Quote:
Look at the conditionz in the nationz uv the world. Iz Mexico or Ethiopia or even Saudi Arabia about to plant a flag on the moon? Even if they did it tomorrow, wuts the excuse for being 53 yirz late?
You've shown you're no better at math than you are at "teh spellinz".
And applying Euro-Caucasian cultural values to things which you deem "smart" and then besmirching all other cultures as "dum" for not reaching the levels of random achievement that your own culture has reached simply shows your biases, not their shortcomings.
"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero
"I was wrong" - Hero, 2012
Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"
Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."
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OK, 43 yirs. Sumhow, that makes me feel younger.
----------------------------
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Oh PLEASE, you're calling it stale when the Bell Curve stuff you're referencing comes from NINETEEN NINETY FOUR?
Pot meet kettle. Perhaps the reason you prefer the older report is because you have a bias towards the message it suggests.
As for section 5: it's all about how white kids are around 100 on IQ tests, and black kids are in the 90s, well within a standard deviation of each other. Being within a standard deviation means that you don't actually deviate from the norm. Also with newer iterations of the test what gaps do exist are narrowing, and that much of the differences can be attributed tooooo:
Socio-economics.
Dun dun dun.
It also points out that Asian kids also tend to score around 100. But that professional metrics often put them around 120 simply because of cultural influences that cause them to work harder. You're completely missing that hard work can make your apparent IQ increase by 20 points or more.
If you think that study was supporting what you're saying, you're very much mistaken. As for the Bell Curve... Why would I even bother reading something two years older, filled with academic incest from Mankind Quarterly and the Pioneer Fund, already discredited, and that a survey of IQ tests in other sources doesn't even replicate their conclusions?
No, I'm sorry, I have to dismiss it as bunk. Science is about replication of results, not what sounds like it might kinds be true, and oh look, I can mash the data into a paste to kinda fit my preconceived notions if you squint at it the right way.
But you go right ahead clinging to your racial superiority theory, ultimately none of us are in any position to effect policy or change the world anyway.
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Quote:
Originally posted by JO753:
M52.
There wuz a big controversy wen [url] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bell_Curve] came out bekuz uv the racial component. If you can think uv a good alternate explanation for the "% of children w/IQ in bottom decile (mothers)" in the 1st chart, I'd like to hear it.
Economic and social, as the chart is titled.
Quote:
Originally posted by JO753:
If you search Google images for 'IQ graphs for races' youll get a bunch that are all showing the same basic trend. Clicking on the 1st wun there and a few otherz, I can see how you are probably lumping me in with bigots and idiots, Byte. The guy even spellz a little like me!
It is the majority of them. I would say that should give you a hint, but you are not good at taking those. I will spell it out. You are making the same arguments as the bigots and idiots.
I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.
A warning to everyone, AURaptor is a known liar.
...and now a Fundie!
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=53359
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Sorry, couldn't resist.
Ass.
Oh, since the topic itself is inane and further discussion is gonna amount to flailing the obviously deranged by way of pelting them with facts as if they were rotten produce in much the manner as one rejects a bad stage actor...
Allow me to share with you an epic bit of trolling by the Frisco branch of the Wobblies, done a couple months back, YOU of all people will appreciate it, Mikey.
http://www.iww.org/en/content/dominos-fall
-Frem
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Yes, much in this country has been unnecessarily pissed away in the name of greed, but for some reason I see a little glimmer of hope on the horizon.
How so? you may ask. Hurricane Sandy. It came along and did some major damage to folks with not much and yet I see and hear of people doing what they can to help those in need. That is the America that I know and love; no blue or red states - just folk helping folk.
What does this have to do with what you wrote? Probably nothing, but sometimes people need a hand to recover, or just live. I feel that sometimes we forget that the government is us. In other words, we vote the bums in and they manage things a bit, if they screw up, we vote again. We, that's a powerful word. It's we having to keep their feet to the fire if they don't do the right thing.
All those tax dollars were meant to help build and run the country. When we pay taxes, it's meant to help those that can't help themselves too. Of course, sometimes along the way things get screwed up, but generally the infrastructure the president talks about is meant for the benefit of us Americans. There are those that will have you believe that it's a crime to accept help when needed. If you can do for yourself and family without aid of some kind, more power to you. Most take great pride in that. My niece, for one, who pulled herself up from practically nothing (with a child) and now is gainfully employed and doing well. She is proud of the fact that she never had to accept government help. She works, pay taxes, votes, works and is raising her 2 kids to be independent.
She may one day need to reach out for help. To my mind, there is nothing wrong with that. If you could face yourself in the mirror, that's what counts. A few years back I was at the end of my rope. Less than 20 dollars in the bank, my last unemployment check gone, and little hope in finding work despite having busted my butt looking. I was desperate, so I applied for food stamps, 2 months behind in my rent and depressed beyond belief.
I was working temp jobs, but even that dried up. I was approved for food stamps and would cringe every time I went to the supermarket. Not 2 weeks into it and I was called in for a job interview. I was hired as a temp worker and 4 months later hired as a full time permanent worker. I am there to this day, and I give thanks every day, especially when I see what's going on today. By the way, it was my niece who told me of the job opening.
We're all just folk............
SGG
Quote:
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
Add one more to the "1-in-7" Americans on food stamps next year.
Why not add one more? It's so popular now that the humiliation I'd feel using that card every time is practically unfounded. In 4 years from now the use will be so prevalent that you'll be the outcast if you're not using that card to buy food.
Instead of hearing "Cash, Debit or Link" at Aldi, we'll hear "Link, Debit or Cash". Anyone watching you pay with cash will automatically resent you flaunting your "wealth" and you'd be under-equipped to deal with potential situations in the parking-lot with a meager .22.
Welcome to the brave new world.
Thank you, GWB, the harbinger of doom. Not only did you F-UP this country so bad in only 8 years that an inexperienced tool of the Crook-County-Chicago political machine get voted in on empty promises, but even after 4 years of every single aspect of this one great nation being pummeled to dust except for the ever growing deficit, we get another 4 years of unchecked debt to China like your last 4 unchecked egregious breaches of our personal liberties.
In my mind, believe it or not, YOU GWB, are actually still the worst president we've ever had. On top of all of your other faults and flaws, we now have 8 years of hands off destruction of our country and the free world through your successor.
One in the chamber of this .45 always.... Probably won't be loNOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Kwicko:
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[url] http://www.news-medical.net/news/2005/04/26/9530.aspx]
Quote:
"Neither the existence nor the size of race differences in IQ are a matter of dispute, only their cause," write the authors. The Black-White difference has been found consistently from the time of the massive World War I Army testing of 90 years ago to a massive study of over 6 million corporate, military, and higher-education test-takers in 2001.
----------------------------
DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early
http://www.nooalf.com
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Uh huh, now we're getting into the scenario I predicted, where we just keep posting studies that neither of us are going to read, and we keep hammering the same points of contention into the ground, such as arguing again about brainsize, which you already conceded.
But, as a side note, before you quote something claiming that there's "no dispute" you ought to
check the article and the study to see that the journal in question didn't publish dissenting studies and criticisms along with it.
Also, maybe check where the funding comes from, and stop committing academic incest. Or are the Pioneer Fund your bestest friends ever?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._Philippe_Rushton
Quote:
Jean Philippe Rushton (December 3, 1943 – October 2, 2012) was a Canadian psychology professor at the University of Western Ontario who was most widely known for his work on racial group differences, such as research on race and intelligence, race and crime, and the application of r/K selection theory to humans in his book Race, Evolution and Behavior (1995). His work was heavily criticised by the scientific community, and it has been widely described as racist, as has the Pioneer Fund, the research foundation he was head of beginning in 2002.
In honour of your insights and nuances, please enjoy this selection of screenshots and captions
from the movie The Jerk.
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Quote:
Originally posted by FREMDFIRMA:Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Sorry, couldn't resist.
Ass.
Oh, since the topic itself is inane and further discussion is gonna amount to flailing the obviously deranged by way of pelting them with facts as if they were rotten produce in much the manner as one rejects a bad stage actor...
Allow me to share with you an epic bit of trolling by the Frisco branch of the Wobblies, done a couple months back, YOU of all people will appreciate it, Mikey.
http://www.iww.org/en/content/dominos-fall
-Frem
That was awesome!
"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero
"I was wrong" - Hero, 2012
Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"
Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."
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OK, Byte. I'll concede that maybe Rushton iz a White Supremisist tool. But you keep hurling insults and accuzing me uv not understanding this or that.
I hav read all your links. Thanks for finding them. Wut I'm having trouble finding iz a relatively recent, unbiased, unappolejetic, reliably authoritative source. The Medical News looks like a mainstream 'just the fax mam' website, but maybe not. Hard to tell frum the desenting opinionz in their article and the Wiki you linked. The subject iz just too sensativ.
It seemz to me that all the major universityz will wizely stay away frum the entire subject.
Can you find sumthing from an unimpeachable authority within the last 10 yirz that settlez this?
If not, we shoud just drop it.
Anybody hrd frum 6string lately?
----------------------------
DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early
http://www.nooalf.com
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Quote:
But you keep hurling insults and accuzing me uv not understanding this or that.
To your credit, you actually have been pretty civil here, and I admit I haven't, for the reasons I gave previously. It's not actually personal on you, it's more the specific topic of argument.
At the same time, if someone just has an issue with something or some group of people or another, I'm willing to recognize that and work around it. Like Wulf had a pretty rough upbringing in a bad neighborhood with a very mixed demographic, and I cut him slack for that, he's going to think some things that he just has to think just to get by.
And you did read the article, which is also a credit to you, I actually wasn't expecting you to do so. I did feel like some clarification on some points of the article were required, but that thing I said about understanding was harsh.
Quote:
Can you find sumthing from an unimpeachable authority within the last 10 yirz that settlez this?
If not, we shoud just drop it.
In science there are NO unimpeachable authorities. I will agree to drop it, but I have one last thing I want to say, and it's not heated like my previous comments.
Really the thing is that there's what I see as a majority and a minority and there's still controversy - this is what you're encountering when most of the stuff in favour of your position that you're finding happens to be associated with a particular research group.
Ultimately to made headway for your side of the argument, you and these other researchers need to change the approach. IQ tests raise too many questions about the kind of intelligence they're measuring and the other factors that might come into play. If you're working in genetics you need to narrow down the associated genes and propose a method of action. Then you can figure out what IS genetic and what isn't.
Except perhaps for twin heritability studies, what you have right now and what all the guys you're posting have been doing, it's all correlations. And Correlations Aren't Causations, so you won't ever have a slam dunk that you can say "this intellectual gap is for sure genetics." You actually have to get into the genetics to determine that, you can't do that on a macro scale with statistics or fMRIs on brain size.
And while I suspect you'll be able to find some genetic influences going on, I don't think you'll really find anything except for medical disorders that says "this determines a baseline about how smart someone will be from birth, and they'll never be able to overcome that." I think you'll find positive factors and negative factors, that can be exacerbated or reduced or negated by environment. And I also suspect that those factors won't necessarily be delineated on the basis of race.
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I think its an unavoidable conclusion that the major factor for IQ iz genetic. Thus my example uv monkeys and cats earlier.
I think its virtually certain, barring a civilization smashing dizaster, that the genez controllling IQ will be found within a few decadez. I also think they are not likely to be directly associated with the genez that differentiate the fizikl differencez between the various ethnic groups. Therez no shortage uv dum wite guyz and orientalz around and plenty uv smart blacks and latinoz.
You dont need to giv me any slack on anything. I never had any bad experiencez with any particular ethnic group.
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DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early
http://www.nooalf.com
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Controlling is a bit too strong a word to describe the function of genes... We might find flaws in protein production or moderation among the couple hundred neurotransmitters or neuron growth factors involved in brain development and function, that may or may not be encoded by the genes themselves. In one person you might see too much or too little of one thing, impacts from long term exposure to too much or too little.
These flaws are likely to vary on an individual basis, not a racial basis, due to the discrepancies just in the meiotic process that produces gametes, or even later in life well after conception and birth due to gene regulation in response to various stresses. What you call intelligence and variations thereof are likely to work like a disorder like depression, which has a known neurochemical basis that is strongly influenced by environment. The difference is, MUCH more factors, MUCH more complicated, and in one person you're likely to find a lot of factors that both help and hinder. There's really no such thing as a genetic lottery, genes aren't like sitting at a slot machine and if all sevens pop up you've hit the jackpot.
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Heres sumthing to think about carefully: If they developed a smart pill that really bumped your IQ up 10 points permanently, would you take it?
Its alwayz tempting to turn it into a Devilz choice thing, like your boobz or wiener will shrink as a side effect, but I think the drawbacks are inherent in the increased intelligence.
And if you found you like being smarter by 10 points, woud you take another pill for 10 more? Where woud you stop?
I am mostly satisfied with wer I'm at now. I can see that alot uv the thingz I like now woud not be interesting to me if I were much smarter. I wish I had a better memory, so if the pill impoved that also I'd take 1.
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DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early
http://www.nooalf.com
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Quote:
Originally posted by JO753:
Heres sumthing to think about carefully: If they developed a smart pill that really bumped your IQ up 10 points permanently, would you take it?
No. I'm already smart enough to know this planet sucks. 10 more points wouldn't make that any better...
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So take 10 and then you woud be able to dezine & bild a Firefly class freigher and get off this dizmal rock!
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DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early
http://www.nooalf.com
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Quote:
Its alwayz tempting to turn it into a Devilz choice thing, like your boobz or wiener will shrink as a side effect, but I think the drawbacks are inherent in the increased intelligence.
...I don't see what the size of genitals or tertiary sexual traits matters at all in the long run. Why didn't you say CANCER? That would actually be a serious problem.
And no, I wouldn't take an IQ enhancing pill for anything. IQ points are largely an illusory concept that don't appear to accurately measure actual intelligence in any way, shape or form. Obsessing about IQ or relative intelligence or appearance is a waste of time. You could be doing something with yourself NOW, rather than trying to make yourself perfect first.
I embrace imperfections. I don't want to live in a utopia where everyone is always happy and perfectly adapted to whatever they do in life and they all look like plastic surgery taken to an extreme and their intelligence is all artificial. Where is the fun in that?
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I didnt say cancer bekuz it makes the choice too eazy and I wuz only dispozing uv the Devilz choice thing anyway.
Your opinion about intelligence measurement iz baseless and a greivious insult to the people who make thoze tests! You seem to want to believe that everybodyz about the same and its only a matter uv education and effort.
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DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early
http://www.nooalf.com
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Quote:
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:Quote:
dum people will produce dum offspring.
Poor educational conditions produces dumb people. The average genetically encoded difference in brain size between all people, male or female and any race is within 200 ccs, provided we're not talking a physical structural deformity or hydrocephaly. More importantly, the approximate number of neurons between people is very similar. The differences between human capacity for intelligence is MINISCULE. The only DIFFERENCE is in what each person USES.
You want to talk to me like the person vegging out on the couch watching Jerry Springer is the same as one of the darwin awards, and that their offspring are worthless. No. I will NOT give nonsense genetics and population dynamics arguments from the goddamn 1920s about morons and imbeciles a free pass. This does not FLY. Update your theories please. This world is garbage, but that doesn't mean that most of the people in it are - they all have the same potential.
I don't know if brain size is all that matters or if it actually matters at all. i do know that the neural circuitry in the brain is significant for a whole range of functioning, including the ability to learn new things. This can be helped or hindered by a whole range of things, including exposure to new experiences, languages etc but negatively by conflict, abuse or emotional trauma. The brain of a fetus is also affected by conditions of the mother, including alcohol and drug use, trauma and abuse. So in some ways, we are not born with the same potential, sadly enough.
I guess technicalities aside, people's capacity to learn can be environmental, but that environment leaves its stamp upon the physiological capacity to learn.
Growing up in an environment where there is poverty of experience, little or no exposure to education, where there is abuse and trauma, limited emotional support due to mental health issues or chronic drug or alcohol use of carers is all going to negatively impact on someone's 'intelligence' and those issues are all associated strongly (allthough not exclusively) with poverty.
In the end, so much of people's wellbeing boils down to economics.
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Quote:
Originally posted by JO753:
Look at the conditionz in the nationz uv the world. Iz Mexico or Ethiopia or even Saudi Arabia about to plant a flag on the moon? Even if they did it tomorrow, wuts the excuse for being 53 yirz late?
Culture can account for alot uv the difference, but that will only lead to the question uv why did the culture get to be such a hinderance to begin with. Wut woud society look like if everybody wuz twice az smart?
People like to do thingz they are good at. They dont like to do thingz they are bad at.
So Byte was right after all.
You think that the only reason that Africans did not land on the moon before the Americans was because they were stupider? That would have to be one stupid argument in itself and shows little understanding of history and how civilisations developed. I suggest you read 'Guns, Germs and Steel' if you could actually allow yourself to consider that some other forces may be at play rather than 'intelligence'.
On a side note, technological advance goes hand in hand with war and conflict. Most modern innovations have been developed for military purposes and then adapted for civilians. Perhaps technological advancement is an indicator of aggression? Just a thought.
I agree with much that has been written here, not by JO. IQ is just one test of one certain kind of intelligence. It doesn't ackowledge creativity, social skills or emotional wellbeing, which probably are greater indicators of success in life than a rather limited test of left brain skills.
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A bit uv wizdom I liv by: "Manz got to know hiz limitationz" - Dirty Harry
This appliez to societyz just as well az it duz to individualz.
Wishful thinking eventually gets you in to trouble.
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DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early
http://www.nooalf.com
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Such as sense of superiority, I presume.
In the very least, it's better to overestimate a threat or a rival than to underestimate.
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Don't you think its a little odd that you percieve me az a threat and a rival?
Thats my anti-talent. I'm a super genius at getting on peoplez bad side. I dont know how I do it. I dont want to do it. Its like majik.
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DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early
http://www.nooalf.com
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Quote:
Don't you think its a little odd that you percieve me az a threat and a rival?
Other races as threats and rivals.
I barely know you, mister. A good rivalry is transcendent in its malice. You don't choose a nemesis like some sweater at a department store, those things have got to be a long lasting and satisfying relationship. You gotta work at it.
Quote:
Thats my anti-talent. I'm a super genius at getting on peoplez bad side. I dont know how I do it. I dont want to do it. Its like majik.
If Wish hadn't said that you've already been posting on the main boards for a while, I'd be wondering if you actually believed any of this or if you're just tweaking us. But being a browncoat inclines me to try to give you the benefit of the doubt.
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Anyway.
You can never go wrong with cat photos.
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Would I take the pill? No, I feel no need to. I doubt it would matter one way or the other really, especially since the concept of IQ points is avaporous one that serves a rather limited purpose and which is disputable anyway based on whose test you take.
"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya
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Quote:
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
A good rivalry is transcendent in its malice. You don't choose a nemesis like some sweater at a department store, those things have got to be a long lasting and satisfying relationship. You gotta work at it.
Really ?
Cause the mutual and obligatory antagonism between me (antiauthoritarian anarchist) and zero (bootlicking authoritarian flunky) is neither any kind of work, nor very satisfying, but then that's prolly cause it's more perfunctory than actively malicious...
Speakin of malice, here's Molly, who woke me up too damn early by licking my face, arghh.
-F
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Molly looks old.
Wun uv the regular vizitorz here wuz estimated to be at least 15 wen I took him to the vet (dont let your cats eat Activia!), possibly over 20.
But, our oldest cat, aNJE, iz 14 and duznt look any different than she did at 2.
I gess you never got to know any geniusez, Rionaeire. Granted, life iz majorly dependent on circumstance and luck, but it never hurts to hav capabilityz.
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DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early
http://www.nooalf.com
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Hello,
So few people work up to their potential. Measuring the upper limit of intelligence is pointless.
A moron operating at 100% will do better than most people at life's challenges. I think they made a movie about it. ;-)
--Anthony
Note to Self:
Raptor - woman testifying about birth control is a slut (the term applies.)
Context: http://tinyurl.com/d6ozfej
Six - Wow, isn't Niki quite the CUNT? And, yes, I spell that in all caps....
http://tinyurl.com/bdjgbpe
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.
Context: http://tinyurl.com/afve3r9
“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -T. S. Szasz
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Frem: Like any relationship, even like, love, dislike, or rivalries can sour. The way I see it, you want relationships that are worth working for and which bring either supportive or antagonistic joy. Any relationship that even with a lot of effort still causes only frustration and doesn't bring fulfillment is not a useful emotional outlet and after a point both parties should abandon it as a futile endeavor.
Defeating your rival can be as important as spending time with a sweetie! In fact, with the way our reward centers are wired, it can be even more fulfilling. Good rivals look forward to challenging each other, and often become possessive and jealous about other rivals stealing them away.
And then for additional fun add some fire and wreckage just for being in the vicinity of the rivalry. Like love, rivalries are improved by collateral damage.
Personally my problem is that I'm too fickle with my antagonism. I can't commit to just one rival, plus I often send off mixed signals and edge over into vitriolic friendship instead of rivalry. Also sometimes I'm a little too forward and escalate too fast, instead of coming across like a worthy opponent people think I'm awful instead. I am like a hate-slut.
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Also: cat pictures!
I approve.
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I enjoyed Byte's summing up of the proper nemesis relationship, sometimes that relationship becomes some sort of cooky friendship, like Quark and Odo, :))
"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya
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Still wondering how 6string iz doing.
I'v commandeered hiz mindless ramblingz topic. Or, really, he abandoned it.
About rivalz.
Pick your battlz carefuly. You chowderhedz are denying that intelligence iz an advantaj. M52 iz on a fever dream crusade against lojik and efficiency, questioning the very concept uv advantaj, and several memberz hav chimed in on hiz side. Az played out az 'seriously' iz, I hav to ask - seriously?
You are fiting against sumwun who iz trying to help your desendents.
My segjestion iz to reconsider the battl youv chozen.
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DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early
http://www.nooalf.com
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You kidding me? Only descendents I'll ever have is if they're grown in a tube and harvested for organs. Thank goodness for that, too - you don't really want a bunch of little me's running around pantsing people and lighting buildings on fire.
So, I have no need of your advice, thanks, and it seems most everyone else disagrees with it as well.
In any case, not really interested in genetic purity and all the host of problems that might propagate through an inbred "elite" population.
Besides, while I still hold the general population is about average, the more you know about the world, the more of a disadvantage you have, because you start to consider ritual suicide as a rational and appropriate escape. Much higher rates of depression among the better educated.
This is really one of those "sounds good on paper" things that fails in reality.
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Quote:
You are fiting against sumwun who iz trying to help your desendents.
Hello,
Even if we were to accept your premise about IQ, it doesn't mean much. Diversity is the most important thing to have for the survival of the species because you can't predict which traits will be the vital ones in the future. You may select for IQ but events may select for some other quality you hadn't predicted to be vital.
You might spend lifetimes carefully selecting X on the premise of advantage, but it could be Y that saves a species from extinction or makes it superior for an unpredicted purpose.
--Anthony
Note to Self:
Raptor - woman testifying about birth control is a slut (the term applies.)
Context: http://tinyurl.com/d6ozfej
Six - Wow, isn't Niki quite the CUNT? And, yes, I spell that in all caps....
http://tinyurl.com/bdjgbpe
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.
Context: http://tinyurl.com/afve3r9
“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -T. S. Szasz
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I wuz kinda mixing in the Nooalf topic there. Shoudnt post wen I'm sleepy.
I hav no genetic purity delusionz, and barring a major calamity, we will be writing our own genetic future more and more frum now on.
We roze above the food chain thouzandz uv yirz ago, now we are rizing above evolution.
Saw Lincoln today. Its about how he got the 13th amendment passed. Later this century, we may be fiting over equal rites for animalz.
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DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early
http://www.nooalf.com
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Your comparison between the 13th amendment and animal rights is worrisome to say the least. It suggests that you see the 13th amendment as a "slippery slope" to borrow my expression, insinuating that you think the passing the 13th amendment is wrong, and animal rights is super wrong. I got in trouble for something involving slippery slopes recently because people didn't like the way I phrased it. I hope you get in more trouble than I did, because seriously what you just said is worse than what I said. Because everyone knows I don't approve of same sex marriage, nothing new there, but the idea that you don't approve of the 13th amendment seems wayyyyyyyyy worse to me at least. But knowing society and its fickle and generally silly nature they'll all gloss over your post and just pick on me again, shrug.
"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya
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Hello,
You seem bitter, Riona.
Since he didn't say he thinks the 13th amendment is a mistake, I don't assume that's his meaning. He seemed to be suggesting a PETA-esque view of tomorrow, where we expand rights to include animals.
However, if he ever states such a position as you suggest, you can very well expect him to be metaphorically flayed for it. And it will have nothing to do with you or society's silly and fickle natures.
--Anthony
Note to Self:
Raptor - woman testifying about birth control is a slut (the term applies.)
Context: http://tinyurl.com/d6ozfej
Six - Wow, isn't Niki quite the CUNT? And, yes, I spell that in all caps....
http://tinyurl.com/bdjgbpe
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.
Context: http://tinyurl.com/afve3r9
“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -T. S. Szasz
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Hmm. I do have to wait for JO to elaborate... But on the other hand, previously Jo said that people should be limited in their employment options to only tasks befitting what their racial genetics says they can do. The 13th amendment helped to destratify society, and opened up options instead of limiting them.
It's kinda like how JO says that races are naturally different in intelligence and how he's concerned our society is getting dumber, but then JO says that he isn't for genetic purity arguments.
I mean, okay, yay, a person not liking genetic purity arguments is kind of a GOOD thing, but on the other hand, where's the carry through from his argument about race/population intelligence and what's he saying we should do?
So there's actually a good point here in wondering how far JO extends his ideas about employment to race and the 13th amendment.
Also, so long as Riona is not nearly as bitter as me, the world is fairly normal. And I suspect she actually kinda expected some flak for what she said about gay marriage, she just wants to be sure we spray that shrapnel around evenly. I'm always happy to oblige, or even set myself up to take some hits. That's how we keep this board fair and balanced.
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