Twinkie maker Hostess to wind down ops, lay off 18,500 workers, put brands up for sale
POSTED BY: Geezer
UPDATED: Saturday, November 24, 2012 18:01
VIEWED: 12327
PAGE 5 of 9
Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
This is a case where one union took down another union. Most of the 18,500 were Hostess Teamsters who were ready to go back to work, but they got screwed out of their jobs when the Bakers union refused to do the same. I guess they'll all be holding hands in union brotherly love on the unemployment line, or they'll kill each other. Jimmy Hoffa must be rolling over in his cement pillar.
Color me unsympathetic here, given what the AFL under Gompers used to do to the IWW for being anti-war back in the day, with the help of them American Legion fascists.
I've always considered the AFL-CIO to be a buncha corporate buttsucking toadies and the Teamsters to be little better, if any, than the corporations they oppose - despite this I will always, always side with Labor cause without any check against the power of corporations, especially in their incestuous relationship with government, we'd just be slaves and not paid at all.
If anything, I am of the opinion that Labor doesn't play hardball ENOUGH, cause my ancestors paid a bloody toll for them rights we do have, and sometimes that *IS* what it takes.
-Frem
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When Ronald Reagan fired ALL the members of the Air Traffic Controllers union (PATCO) it didn't take too long to fill those jobs. If air traffic controllers can be replaced I'm pretty sure truck drivers and bakery workers can be replaced, especially with 20+ million people looking for full-time work.
The days of exploitive robber barons like Carnegie, Mellon, Rockefeller, and others are long gone. Unions had a purpose and were necessary back then, but over time the Federal Govt. took on that role and became the protector and enforcer of workers' rights. Today there are Federal and State laws protecting workers in regards to child labor, overtime pay, maternity leave, equal opportunity, worker's comp. disability, racial bias, pay parity, OSHA safety, minority bias, sexual harassment, etc etc etc.
So what do unions really do for the hundreds of millions of dollars they collect (extort) from their members? Seems like the union heads have become the modern day exploitive robber barons.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
Aside from which, the idea that the unions wouldn't concede yet again, given the facts presented by the article Mike posts, isn't logical. To see one's salary cut again and again, while forced to accept higher and higher investments on the worker's part (which is essentially a FURTHER pay cut), isn't logical.
Except, as noted above, the "facts" in Mike's post about the proposed contract seen to contradict what pretty much all reports describe the contact as actually being.
From all I've read, the contract lowers pay 8% the first year. For years two through four, it increases pay 3% a year, and in the fifth year increases pay 1%. So at the end of five years, pay is 2% higher than it is now. Company contributions to health premiums also drop from 83% to 66%. Payments to retirement funds (not Social Security) drop 75%.
ETA: This is not to say that the company couldn't have been managed better, or have noticed the change in the American diet and diversified, but more efficient management might also have downsized and closed plants earlier in the process, putting folks out of work anyway.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
The days of exploitive robber barons like Carnegie, Mellon, Rockefeller, and others are long gone.
I call bullshit.
-F
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
The days of exploitive robber barons like Carnegie, Mellon, Rockefeller, and others are long gone. Unions had a purpose and were necessary back then, but over time the Federal Govt. took on that role and became the protector and enforcer of workers' rights. Today there are Federal and State laws protecting workers in regards to child labor, overtime pay, maternity leave, equal opportunity, worker's comp. disability, racial bias, pay parity, OSHA safety, minority bias, sexual harassment, etc etc etc.
Its almost... sweet... that you believe this.
Excuse me while I soak in all these sweet, sweet conservative tears.
"We will never have the elite, smart people on our side." -- Rick "Frothy" Santorum
"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"
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Quote:
Originally posted by m52nickerson:Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
The union killed Hostess, not the employees. The company does not exist for the benefit of the unions. No company does.
...and who makes up the unions?
It's not who makes up the unions, it's who makes up the union leadership that's so destructive. Forcing employees to join, and then forcing them to fork over their earned $ to the union, and then forcing open votes... it's sheer intimidation and threats that he unions control the employees.
" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "
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Do you have any cites to back your claim that unions are "forcing employees to join"?
"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero
"I was wrong" - Hero, 2012
Mitt Romney, introducing his running mate: "Join me in welcoming the next President of the United States, Paul Ryan!"
Rappy's response? "You're lying, gullible ( believing in some BS you heard on msnbc ) or hard of hearing."
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Do you have any cites to back your claim that unions are "forcing employees to join"?
Any cites to say they weren't?
Your tedious claim of 'cites', is nothing more than a clear attempt to distract from the issue at hand. The union voted to kill Hostess, as unions have voted to shut down many businesses before.
" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Do you have any cites to back your claim that unions are "forcing employees to join"?
Unless you are in a Right to Work state you may have to become a member of the Union as part of employment. Those are called security agreements.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right-to-work_law
I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.
A warning to everyone, AURaptor is a known liar.
...and now a Fundie!
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=53359
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Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Your tedious claim of 'cites', is nothing more than a clear attempt to distract from the issue at hand.
No it is not dumbass. If you are going to make claims be ready to back them up or shut the fuck up.
I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.
A warning to everyone, AURaptor is a known liar.
...and now a Fundie!
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=53359
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