Is Bin Laden a tool for the US election?
POSTED BY: Succatash
UPDATED: Wednesday, October 20, 2004 19:27
VIEWED: 12002
PAGE 6 of 8
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Yeah, I can see that distinction .. NOT.
How many "Heroes" attach bombs to themselves, take 1200 people hostage, many children and then start blowing shit up? Also how many of these "Heroes (to Signym anyways)" who use these tactics are rabid Islama-fascists and how many are not.
True Heroes don't specifically target civilians (or children). Cowards(terrorists) do.
Death to Islamafascism
If only it were that simple. I am sure that many would state (probably inclutding you) that the RAF and the USAF were heroes during WW2, but they specifically targeted innocent civilians in cities such as Dresden, Cologne, Berlin, etc... in order to reduce moral in Germany.
(Remember, not all German were actually Nazis, many German communists and democrats died in concentration camps, many more had to hide, and since jews weren't allowed into airraid-shelters they were particularly at risk)
Here is a link to a paper on this from the BBC:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/war/wwtwo/area_bombing_01.shtm
One other thing: The Russian terrorists who took hostages in a school in Beslan and in a theatre in Moscow, are neither fascists (neither is Osama bin Laden for that matter), and while they do seem to have links to Al Quaida (according to the BBC http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/3293441.stm) they fight for a VERY different cause, they are not defined by being Muslim but rather by being ethnic Chechans, and there conflict with Russia is not something that has come up over the last few years, they have been at each others throats for hundreds of years.
If you believe that all the worst terrorists are muslims, then maybe you should look up the attacks on the Tokyo with sarin(?) gas, the entire Yugoslavian(sp?) conflict, ethnic cleansing in Rwanda, and many more.
My Religion teacher had an interesting explanation as to why "muslim terrorists" are more visible to the outside world than other terrorists, namely because in many countries that have a predominantly muslim population, there is over-abundance of weaponry available to common people at a low price. Many terrorists may have the will to carry out horrific attacks, but not all of them have the means.
On another note I'd like to sincerely thank ConnorFlynn, for his keen observation about my political motivations. Yes, of course I would prefer dictators! if I could, I'd kill all Americans myself, preferably with a machete, just to make it more gruesomely enjoyable! Also I will stop buying food, because I think the pure concept of exchanging money for goods is pure evil and should be eradicated from this planet! (maybe with a machete?) Also for his correct assumption that I in fact dispise the concept of intelligence and only truly appreciate people who are dumbasses. Anyone with an IQ over 70 should be killed (now where is that machete?)
(Oh... before someone actually takes that last paragraph serious: I was being sarcastic)
Unsincerely,
Coward (<- oh yes, I am one, but I have not and I do not intend to kill civilians)
--------------------------
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it."
- George Bernard Shaw (1856 - 1950)
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As a general note:
No, I do not support the "missile" theory of what hit the Pentagon.
But I'm moved that some people 'get it'.
It's not that Bush and his administration lied about the tax cuts, about pollution reduction, and joblessness and real wages, or even about WMD, 9/11 and Iraq.
It's that they're engaged in the 'big lie'.
Not only do they manipulate the news, they twist events for political gain.
Nothing that oozes out from the White House can be taken at face value.
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And so we have two nations-
Colombia, where they didn't have elections until recently, and most of the population is dirt-poor and illiterate, with no runnning water, no medical service, and where people are gunned down, disappeared, or tortured to death in jail...
...and Cuba, where they don't have free elections but most people have an decent standard of living despite a US embargo, a 90% literacy rate, running water, and medical service * ... and people are disappeared. (I haven't heard of much torture in Cuban jails, have you?) (*Please see your UN rankings on human development for the statistics)
Hmmm... which to choose? Tough choice, I'll admit that!
Still haven't decided, Geezer? Me neither! Let's see... a tyranny that impoverishes just about everyone while making a few people fabulously wealthy, versus a tyranny that provides the best standard of living possible for as many as possible. Yeah, I know, it's a difficult decision. Well, when you decide let me know... I can't seem to figure this one out!
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I think it all has to do with a tiny word: Fear. Got some? Got a lot?
"Gott kann dich nicht vor mir beschuetzen, weil ich nicht boese bin."
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Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:Quote:
And so we have two nations-
Colombia...
...and Cuba. Hmmm... which to choose? Tough choice, I'll admit that!
Still haven't decided, Geezer? Me neither! Let's see... a tyranny that impoverishes just about everyone while making a few people fabulously wealthy, versus a tyranny that provides the best standard of living possible for as many as possible. Yeah, I know, it's a difficult decision. Well, when you decide let me know... I can't seem to figure this one out!
Columbia is no prize, and, if these were the only two choices, I'd probably rather sit on the beach in Cuba with a mojito and keep my mouth shut.
Columbia is one of those places where the two (or maybe three, if you count the drug cartels) sides have been fighting so long that they have moved near or into the terrorist realm. The US got involved long ago during the cold war when any anti-communist regime was the best of a bad lot. We're probably still there trying to cut down the flow of drugs, as much as anything. Admittedly this is in support of domestic politics, and presidents for both parties have run on fighting the "War on drugs" overseas.
I'm not sure there is a good solution for Columbia. It would be political suicide for an administration to pull out and be seen as soft on drugs, not to mention that what little ethical control we exert over the Columbian military would be gone. In the world of modern sensibilities we can't just go in and take the whole thing over, even if it were done for their own good.
"Keep the Shiny side up"
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Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
As a general note:
No, I do not support the "missile" theory of what hit the Pentagon.
But I'm moved that some people 'get it'.
It's not that Bush and his administration lied about the tax cuts, about pollution reduction, and joblessness and real wages, or even about WMD, 9/11 and Iraq.
It's that they're engaged in the 'big lie'.
Not only do they manipulate the news, they twist events for political gain.
Nothing that oozes out from the White House can be taken at face value.
Maybe if it was a little less one-note. maybe if there was a little less hate for and objectification of those who don't agree with you on absolutely everything. Maybe if you, or any of the extreme Anti-Bushies, would talk about what Kerry could do for the country that Bush can't. I'd be interested in that.
But we don't get that from you. Even if we think Bush is misguided or downright wrong on some things, the fact that we don't consider him evil incarnate makes us right-wing neo-con liars. You end up being the one who spews hate. You make it impossible to actually discuss the issues. You actually do your views a dis-service by your strident retoric.
"Keep the Shiny side up"
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I've posted lots, and lots on all sorts of topics. Facts, history, quotes, urls etc etc. Grow up.
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Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
I've posted lots, and lots on all sorts of topics. Facts, history, quotes, urls etc etc. Grow up.
Maybe I'm thinking of stuff like this:
"Bush is taking lessons from Hitler ... and Bill Gates. Bill Gates of FUD - fear, uncertainty, and doubt. FUD works.
To get Bush's message, you'd have to take the u-soft FUD pitch and add greed and hate.
Bush's campaign panders to those unclean things. It's not fact-based."
Or maybe the way you managed to sabotage the 9/11 thread.
It could even be that I'm just tarring you with the same brush as some of your "Bush is evil" compatriots. Ghoulman comes to mind. I note SignyM has called me "right-wing" on a couple of occasions as well, although we often have good discussions. Let's just talk about something else for a while.
"Keep the Shiny side up"
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Something is strange you guys.... we're on a site titled "FIREFLYFANS.NET".... why are we talking about the US election.... I am sure that it is important to many of you, heck, I'm 14 and it's pretty important to me, but that's not what this site is about... you want to talk about politics go to a political chat room, where you can talk to people who agree with you or disagree with you accordingly.
I didn't start watching Firefly because they all are political junkies, becuase they support the same things I support. Nathon Fillion may like Kerry better than Bush, but does Mal?... The truth is, that we are united under one banner, and that banner waves neither the Elephant, nor the Donkey, that banner waves the colors of the true Sci-Fi fan, that banner is us. We are Democrats, Republicans, Americans, Canadiens, Palestinian, Asian..... We are Browncoats... and we are Firefly Fans..... Go talk about politics somewhere else... when we fight (or what you would call "discuss") something that makes people choose sides, we will be a broken group of fans.... lets not start something that may leave us with enemies....
Let's stay Browncoats together... nothing else...
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Araglas, I understand where you are coming from on this. The Real World Event Discussions set of threads on this site has ballooned recently. If Haken decides that these threads are distracting from the main purpose of this site - to provide a place for fans of Firefly to virtually congregate - and decides to shut down these types of threads then I won't complain. I come to this site first and foremost to engage in this great community of fireflyfans.
For me, this is the only site where I regularly post. Many of my posts are in the General Discussions threads. Many of my posts are in the Real World Event Discussions threads. I appreciate having the Real World section of the web site because there are a lot of topics that I have an opinion on, albeit maybe an uninformed one, that I feel safe discussing here. Safe in that I know the people who I am engaged in discussion with, although we might disagree on the particular topic, do have one thing in common - a love of Firefly. We share that in common and so it is easier for me to be less judgemental in regards to their opinions on other topics. I have learned a lot from many different people in these threads. Because of our differing philosophical beliefs we access different sources of information and that is fascinating to me.
I try very hard not to attack people personally but rather to state my position and attempt to provide supplemental information to back that position up. Many of these topics in this section evoke strong emotions and so it is harder at times to refrain from engaging in flaming.
I would be saddened if this section were removed. But I would understand. It is only a peripheral part of this site. The main reason that I come here would still remain. To look at it from another direction, I would be very disappointed if a new Firefly fan got turned off from this community because of anything said in the Real World Event Discussion section.
I shaved off my beard for you, devil woman!
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