Is Bin Laden a tool for the US election?
POSTED BY: Succatash
UPDATED: Wednesday, October 20, 2004 19:27
VIEWED: 12002
PAGE 3 of 8
Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
I couldn't listen because I don't have the equipment, but I gather that the idea was that the Pentagon was actually hit by a missile?
I followed that up. Ran across an aeronuatical engineer's assessment of how that could be. Basically, he used the crash of El Al Flight 1862 into a large Dutch apartment building in 1992 as an example of what a similar crash site and debris looks like. The "hole" was indeed very small, and there was very little visible plane debris. The small hole was was attributed to the fact that the wings snap off at the building face.
Thanks for helping debunk the "Missle hit the Pentagon" theory. Since I tend to think of our government as just stupid, rather than evil, I never saw much point to blowing up our own military headquarters.
"Keep the Shiny side up"
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Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Oh yeah- making the world safe for democracy... NOT!!!
Colombian soldiers assassinated three union leaders last month, an account that contrasts sharply with the army's earlier claim that the three men were Marxist rebels killed in a firefight.
The attorney general's human rights unit ordered arrest(s)... in Saravena, a town long besieged by leftist rebels. Since 2002, United States military trainers have been training Colombian soldiers in Saravena in counterguerrilla techniques
www.nytimes.com/2004/09/07/international/americas/07CND-COLO.html
So leftist rebels, who some might characterize as guerrillas, have been besieging Saravena for a long time. And U.S. trainers have been instructing the Colombian soldiers in Saravena, who are presumably fighting these guerillas who've been besieging them for a long time, in counterguerilla tactics? Yep. Sounds like another conspiricy to me.
"Keep the Shiny side up"
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You know, I would accept your sarcasm with a great deal of sang-froid if I hadn't met someone (a lowly illegal housekeeper) whose entire village had been massacred by government troops. They (troops) put out a flyer saying that there was going to be a union meeting at the village church at a certain date and time, and when about 400 people showed up the troops barred the doors and machine-gunned everyone inside. This was not much different than what happened in Beslan, except it was funded in part by the USA. I bet THAT won't set off any deep response... after all, it's just part of our larger effort to save the world.
The Colombian government has had a long collaberation with right-wing paramilitaries, and a long and well-documented history of brutality towards its own citizens, and yet the USA has consistently trained, armed, and funded them. This was not meant to be the entire argument about the whole of US history in Latin America, just the latest example of our turning them into a nice little cheap=labor colony.
BTW-Please pick up a copy of one of this year's far-left publications, National Geographic. You will find a spread on what life is like on the guerilla side.
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Geezer, JCobb and who ever else is Pro-Freedom -
Just give it up folks LOL. I have. I applaud your passion for freedom and intelligence, your ability to see through the inane conspiracy theories and propagandic rhetoric. It's just not worth the frustration.
On these boards , America is the great evil, Period. America and GW Bush are what is wrong in the world. Terrorists are heroes. Islamafascists are heroes and the victims of the great oppressor. Communist Guerilla warriors are heroes. Anyone who is Anti-America, Anti-Democracy, Anti-Israeli, Anti-Capitalism, Pro-Dumbass is welcome on these boards.
Anyone who is Pro-Democracy, Pro-Freedom, Pro-America, Pro-Israeli, Pro-Capitalism and Anti-terrorist, Anti Islamafascist, Anti-Socialist, Anti-Big Government, Anti-Dumbass ---- Is a Neo-Nazi Fascist Bigot and All-around Evil.
PS. I subscribe to National Geographic. It is not Deep Left, Nor is it political in my opinion. Pro- Environment does not make you a leftist. As I recall a recent issue on Saudi Arabia,specifically claimed the problem with Saudi Arabia was its LAZY ASSED youth, go figure.
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Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
You know, I would accept your sarcasm with a great deal of sang-froid if I hadn't met someone (a lowly illegal housekeeper) whose entire village had been massacred by government troops. They (troops) put out a flyer saying that there was going to be a union meeting at the village church at a certain date and time, and when about 400 people showed up the troops barred the doors and machine-gunned everyone inside. This was not much different than what happened in Beslan, except it was funded in part by the USA. I bet THAT won't set off any deep response... after all, it's just part of our larger effort to save the world.
The Colombian government has had a long collaberation with right-wing paramilitaries, and a long and well-documented history of brutality towards its own citizens, and yet the USA has consistently trained, armed, and funded them. This was not meant to be the entire argument about the whole of US history in Latin America, just the latest example of our turning them into a nice little cheap=labor colony.
BTW-Please pick up a copy of one of this year's far-left publications, National Geographic. You will find a spread on what life is like on the guerilla side.
The Geographic article was interesting.
I realize that the U.S. has supported repressive regimes, both in Columbia and the ones Gino mentioned above. I suspect that the old cold warriors who originated these policies 30 or 40 years ago went in with eyes open but holding their noses, because they understood there was no real win available. They probably considered right-wing dictators over Communist dictators the lesser of two evils.
Considering that the places where the leftist guerillas won, Cuba and Vietnam, are not exactly hotbeds of freedom either, I'm not sure those old commie fighters weren't correct. Since we're trading anicdotal stories... One of my co-workers is originally from Vietnam. In 1975 his father was put in a "re-education" camp for 8 years by the communist regime and was one of the lucky few to get out alive. It wasn't until '94 that they were able to get out of the country and come here.
I'd rather we not be involved in Columbia nowadays myself, but that decision was made long ago. I'm not too sure that our departure at this point wouldn't result in a bigger loss of life than if we stayed.
"Keep the Shiny side up"
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Terrorists are terrorists, whether they are Muslim, Israeli, Serbian, Russian or American.
Anyone who targets a civilian population for death or injury or who destroys basic civilian infrastructure is a terrorist. Quite frankly, I'm not sure I care about the justification, whether it's as noble as "freedom" or as trivial as "He started it".
The massacre of Colombian civilians in a church, the massacre of East Timorese, Sudanese, Beslan children and parents in a school, or workers in the Twin Towers ALL deserve our outrage. One is not more deserving than another, and one action is not more culpable than another. If you are going to be anti-terrorist, just make sure you spread the blame WHEREVER it belongs.
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I'm still suprised at this following but here it goes.
The US has passed a law in wich the parlament (or is it senate?) gives permission to invade The Netherlands should we (I'm Dutch) hold American soldiers there in the International Criminal Court. We are a NATO allie in fact and the US has legalised plans to invade us. Poeple might say 'duh you are holding our poeple.' but they would't be there without reason and if they can't be prooven guilty they will not be sentenced.
What suprises me the most is that no where on the internet or in any other country any mention of this law wich makes this claim kinda dubious. The best I could find was a newsgroup quote, but ask any Dutch person who follows the news. It at least was all over our news.
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By the way, in another thread we have a discussion going about the intertwining of terrorist and hero. They both rely on violence perpetrated by an individual (or a small group) to attain social/ political ends. "One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter" may be true in more than just a flippant way.
Perhaps if we did not rely on heros so much, we wouldn't have terrorists.
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Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
By the way, in another thread we have a discussion going about the intertwining of terrorist and hero. They both rely on violence perpetrated by an individual (or a small group) to attain social/ political ends. "One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter" may be true in more than just a flippant way.
Perhaps if we did not rely on heros so much, we wouldn't have terrorists.
Yeah, I can see that distinction .. NOT.
How many "Heroes" attach bombs to themselves, take 1200 people hostage, many children and then start blowing shit up? Also how many of these "Heroes (to Signym anyways)" who use these tactics are rabid Islama-fascists and how many are not.
True Heroes don't specifically target civilians (or children). Cowards(terrorists) do.
Death to Islamafascism
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Quote:
Originally posted by GinoBiffaroni:
Did the people under Pinochet enjoy the " proliferation of liberty", or under Batista, or the Shah, or Somosa, or Diem, the list goes on
Good question. Why not add all the people who suffered needlessly at the hands of brutal dictators in the years following WW2?
A professor once summed it up this way: "When two elephants fight it is the grass that suffers."
There is little doubt that the US could have opposed all the dictatorships that existed in the world since 1950. It would have set our hand against most of Africa, Asia, Central and South America. Our resources would have been depleted and our alliances strained or broken. Thus leaving the world to the Communists.
You mentioned Chile, which suffered through dictatoship to emerge into Demcracy, Cuba, now over 50 years in the grip of Communist slavery, Iran, gripped in the terror and tragedy of radical Islam, Nicaraugua, which saw a fight to freedom in the '80s result in free elections in the '90s, Vietnam, which is now a workers paradise made up of Communists slaves.
Now my list: Poland, South Korea, Czech Republic, Salvakia, Romania, Hungary, Bulgaria, Ukraine, Estonia, Kuwait, Egypt, Nicaraugua, Chile, Afganistan, Japan, Germany (East and West), France, Mexico, Pakistan, Phillipines, South Africa, Guana, Panama, and Free Iraq...as you say: "the list goes on". These are a few of the nations and a few of the billions of people who have benefited from American policy since 1945.
Sure, its a bumpy road, and sometimes you have to play nice with some of the bad guys until you bring down the worse guys (particularly when they have an arsenal of nuclear weapons pointed at you). But our policy has always been headed in this direction. An end to Communism, a liberated Europe, an end to terror, and a world more free, more safe, and more hopeful then we inherited.
There may not be an end to the challenges we face, who can say what will rise once the scourge of radical Islam is put down, but the hope of the free world is that America will be there to meet it.
Quote:
Since you all apparently saved us from the Russians, who now will save us from the Americans ?
I'm sure Bin Ladden, Saddam, Stalin, Hitler, Mao, and countless other evil men have wondered the same thing.
Quote:
Time to step back, because your walking towards a mighty big cliff.
Yeah, its the one we throw tyrants and terrorists over.
Unlike nations like France, we stand at the edge of that cliff and face the evils of the world.
H
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