Is Firefly Amoral Familism?

POSTED BY: two
UPDATED: Saturday, October 6, 2012 01:09
VIEWED: 12608
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TWO

Friday, September 14, 2012 4:37 PM

http://andrewsullivan.thedailybeast.com/2012/09/family-values.html

Quote:
In a famous study half a century ago, the political scientist Edward Banfield coined the term "amoral familism" to describe how family solidarities in a southern Italian village decreased engagement in and trust of the political community as a whole. Rather than see their futures wrapped up in the success of their country and civic community, the villagers sought to maximize their family's situation by any means necessary, no matter what the cost to the larger community.

Over the past few years, economists studying social capital around the world have been studying the question anew, and have generally found that Banfield was on to something. In an important paper, Alberto Alesina and Paola Giuliano looked at 80 countries and found that those where the family ties were weakest tended to have the strongest levels of civic and political engagement and generalized social trust. And vice versa. The top performers in terms of civic engagement were northern European countries: Denmark, the Netherlands, Lithuania, and Germany. At the bottom were the Philippines, Venezuela, Egypt, and Zimbabwe. The U.S. (the greatest democracy in the history of the universe) came in 50th.

The Godfather: Part 2 - Corleone Family Flashback

WISHIMAY

Friday, September 14, 2012 7:36 PM

This country was founded by people that wanted to break away from their own societies and form their OWN groups. We are genetically predisposed to not be as interactive and to be wary for we are surrounded with people we do not understand (and come from places that were generally too heavy-handed in rule) and now we have a government that CLEARLY does not actively care about the health or comfort of it's citizens, instead focusing on it's own ego driven quest for supremacy and piety. Only care about your government when you HAVE to, as it will only concern itself with YOU when it has to, and usually- to YOUR detriment......
And THAT'S why we are the way we are.

TWO

Friday, September 14, 2012 8:26 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Wishimay:
......And THAT'S why we are the way we are.

Too abstractly political for me. I wasn't thinking that the Corleone's Sicilian peasant society transplanted to the USA was like Firefly out on the Rim. I was thinking much more specifically: that the Corleone family dining room table was about the same size as Serenity's dining room table and same kinds of conversations were held at both tables - all for the good of the family.

The Joss Whedon script for "Serenity," where Wash lives, is
Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/two

BYTEMITE

Friday, September 14, 2012 9:13 PM

Eh, the difference between Serenity and Sicily is that one of them involves a group of Robin Hood-esque archetypes. The merry men had to feed themselves too, you know.

Plus, consider that study about weak family ties, and consider taken to extreme examples like 1984 where kids are encouraged to turn their parents in as traitors whether they are or not.

Illegality and Amorality: not necessarily the same thing.

TWO

Friday, September 14, 2012 10:05 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
Eh, the difference between Serenity and Sicily is that one of them involves a group of Robin Hood-esque archetypes. The merry men had to feed themselves too, you know.

Mal is Robin Hood-esque? I don't get it. Well, he did give away the loot in Better Days, but he didn't give it to the poor. It was to the corrupt law enforcement as a ransom for Zoe. And the Train Job, a town dies if Mal doesn't give back the drugs. That wasn't Robin Hood, either. If Mal had done anything else, he'd be an evil monster. Don Corleone would have been repelled by such behavior.

The Joss Whedon script for "Serenity," where Wash lives, is
Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/two

WISHIMAY

Saturday, September 15, 2012 2:38 AM

I'm not so sure Mal wouldn't have been Robin Hood-ish were he eventually successful, though he probably wouldn't have admitted it. Mal's the kind of guy that likely would help people out anonymously, because after all- he has a heart- in as much as he would deny it. Mal's petty retaliations on the government is all about avenging his honor, because that is all he can do. A guy like that has a code, but you only see it when the chips are down...

I don't see ANY paralel between the Mob and Serenity. The Mob is about power-grabbing for it's own sake, and are just a bunch of over-glorified thugs and control freaks...If anything the Mob is more like the Alliance.

Also, I think the notion that Robin Hood would have been monastic-like in his "giving to the poor" was probably an intentional mis-representation to that much more further the cause. "Robin only helps those he deems worthy" is just not as romantical a notion. Chances are, if you give ALL you have without reserves to others, there is most likely something very wrong with your brain. So Robin Hood was either a mental case or the more likely- an overly romantisized leader...

BYTEMITE

Saturday, September 15, 2012 3:08 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by two:
Mal is Robin Hood-esque?

Yep.

Quote:
And the Train Job, a town dies if Mal doesn't give back the drugs. That wasn't Robin Hood, either. If Mal had done anything else, he'd be an evil monster.

Ask yourself a slightly altered scenario: if someone took the drugs, and Mal heard about the suffering of the townspeople, would they have gone after the thieves and brought the drugs back? It'd be pretty monstrous to ignore the townspeople there too. So of course they would have done it. And if they had - Robin hood comparisons ahoy.

They deliberately try to steal only from the rich (partially because they can't make overhead stealing from the poor, but also because there's only so much that Mal can live with himself). The only reason the crew stole the medicine in the train job was because they just thought it was the alliance's medicine, they didn't know the whole story.

Also, he took on a job to chase off bandits that had been preying on the Triumph settlers completely pro-bono. I'll admit that's a bit more magnificent seven than robin hood, but the sentiment is basically the same.

And in Jaynestown, Inara immediately assumes Fess means Mal when he mentions someone stealing money from the magristrate and distributing it to the mudders. She all but uses the term "Robin Hood." It seemed entirely within Inara's understanding of Mal's character, which suggests she's seen him do something similar before. It's possible she's simply self-deluding herself do to her unconfessed infatuation, but I have doubts, Inara is a very sharp and educated women and she'd recognize if Mal was faking the streak of goodness and nobility he has in him.

TWO

Saturday, September 15, 2012 10:20 AM

I'm pretty sure Mal is a gangster, when you look dispassionately at the his robbing and his killing and ignore his pretty face. I admit he is a handsome & charming gangster with a soul, but so were Marlon Brando and Al Pacino as the Corleone gang leaders.

( Ariel = Alliance hospital robbery. Trash = Alliance general's robbery. Serenity = Alliance payroll robbery.) Mal's many homicides? Might be a tinge wrong.

Quote:
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
Ask yourself a slightly altered scenario:

What Mal really needs after the movie is somebody to lease Serenity and crew. Mal needs something legitimate for Serenity . . . that doesn't involve robbery. I was thinking Serenity is leased to either a philanthropist that Inara knows or a large charitable organization such as Doctors Without Boarders. I'm trying to think of who should be the hypothetical medical staff . . .

Just to be clear, that does not mean Mal cannot do some smuggling on the side. And he can still get into fights, but now his day job is transporting a doctor with operating room to Rim moons that don't have doctors. Mal has quit robbing and gone, mostly, legit.

The Joss Whedon script for "Serenity," where Wash lives, is
Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/two

WISHIMAY

Saturday, September 15, 2012 3:04 PM

If a Gov't asassin, a couple thugs, and a couple demented rulers try to kill me while I'm trying to do business and I take them out it does not make me gangster. Sure, when you look at it dispassionately, he looks bad, but when you look at ANYTHING dispassionately it looks bad... The people he killed were scum and if they had played by the rules, nobody would have gotten dead. He did what he had to do at the time.. True he's a thief, but a thief with a purpose. I think the difference is intent (although I admit I've never seen more than five minutes of the Godfather movies, but I'll bet they were highly romantisized as well. Reality is usually much more different than Hollywood) Alliance literally destroyed Mal's world, had they not- I'm pretty sure he'd be running the farm with some pretty gal by his side, not out trying to right a wrong. I doubt that any Mobster has even half as good intent.

I do agree that eventually he wouldve had to find some other use for Serenity. We all gotta move on sometime...

TWO

Saturday, September 15, 2012 7:10 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Wishimay:
Sure, when you look at it dispassionately, he looks bad, but when you look at ANYTHING dispassionately it looks bad...

There is a cartoon about rationalizing that got on Youtube: The Truth About Dishonesty, published on Sep 14, 2012 by theRSAorg
Dan Ariely, professor of psychology and behavioral economics at Duke University, examines the mechanisms at work behind dishonest behavior, and the implications this has for all aspects of our social and political lives.

The Joss Whedon script for "Serenity," where Wash lives, is
Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/two

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