Is Firefly Amoral Familism?
POSTED BY: two
UPDATED: Saturday, October 6, 2012 01:09
VIEWED: 12608
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Self defense and homicide aren't the same thing. When someone is just simply annoying or inconvenient Mal DOESN'T kill them, like in the Ariel theft, they just knocked out the arrogant doctor even though he could've possibly identified them. Mal only actually kills people if they threaten him or his crew first, and sometimes not even then. It makes Mal's life more difficult, but then again, Mal has to live with himself.
So yeah, the Robin Hood thing still pretty much applies. Or if you don't like that, Mal is basically a future Butch Cassidy - he robs from the people it makes sense to rob, gives back what wins him sympathy to the people who might shelter them, and rarely ever kills because he has a code against that.
Sicilian mafia and gangsters will kill people if they're just inconvenient or who could rat them out, so yes, there is a very large difference between them and Mal.
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Quote:You make Mal sound like he is a deep thinker.
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
It makes Mal's life more difficult, but then again, Mal has to live with himself.
Mal's no Buddhist, but he really needs the Right Livelihood. I'm almost certain, but I'm open to reason, that Robbery is the Wrong Livelihood - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noble_Eightfold_Path#Right_livelihood
Mal wants the whole Universe to get out of his way. If it doesn't move quickly enough, beware the Wrath of Mal.
The Joss Whedon script for "Serenity," where Wash lives, is
Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/two
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Quote:
Originally posted by two:
Mal wants the whole Universe to get out of his way. If it doesn't move quickly enough, beware the Wrath of Mal.
And I am totally, completely down with that - s'why I like the guy.
As for "Robbery" - you call it theft, some call it taxes, some call it profit.
That, my friend, is ENTIRELY a matter of perspective.
-F
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Quote:
You make Mal sound like he is a deep thinker.
Well, he has read a poem. :)
But I was more meaning...
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Mal's no Buddhist, but he really needs the Right Livelihood. I'm almost certain, but I'm open to reason, that Robbery is the Wrong Livelihood
He'd actually agree with you on that one. There's indications in both the show and the movie that Mal's conflicted over the lifestyle, especially in regards to where it might concern or damage other people like the crew (as in, not rich, the downtrodden). He tries to limit that impact by being choosey about his jobs, but that doesn't win him any favours with the other criminals who he has to go begging jobs from, since they think he's a bit self-righteous because of it.
It's the only way he can see to survive though, and at the same time feel like he hasn't surrendered. It's kind of sad.
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Quote:The perfect time for Mal to break from gangsterism is when the Serenity comic gets rebooted as a monthly. The Whedons could give Mal reasons to stop robbing. Mal won't get religion; it's not the Whedon style. This doesn't sound right: "Mal, when did you start obeying the Ten Commandments?" - Jayne Cobb.
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
It's the only way he can see to survive though, and at the same time feel like he hasn't surrendered. It's kind of sad.
What will Mal do without the random thrills, the highs and lows, of crime? The Whedons have the same problem as Mal – what to do with Mal's life. Can the Whedons think of something new for Mal? Will his new life be entertaining? Will the comic sell?
The Joss Whedon script for "Serenity," where Wash lives, is
Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/two
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thanks for an interesting thread...makes me stop n think for a bit (not that I'm particularly good at that)
this is kind of at the core of what attracted me to Firefly to begin with.
I never expected our rag tag crew to be the 'A-team' or the Leverage team ..maybe closer to Robin Hood in that the situation was forced upon them.
Wasn't surprised at the choices made with Heart of Gold but i agree I didn't look for them to be weekly episodes of going out to help someone else.
This was about choosing not to live under a society that felt like poison to them in so many ways and for most of them, there was little really being offered..not like they had great opptys to make tons of money or hold prestigious positions of power...and even those that may have done well (Doc and maybe Shepard) had other personal reasons for their paths.
It was that sense of living very far off the edge of the map, having to duck n dodge every time they dared to venture into any degree of civilization.
That the very basics of an old ship, clothing, food and even sense of family were all wrapped up in a very small world that had already lost the big war.
Since it was hollywood, they were all relatively attractive..real life might now have been so kind..in fact it would be fun to see how some of us, being honest, might cast the crew...same male/female roles, but with unattractives.
There's a high tech gal I work with...sweet heart and a friend, but she's certainly not Kaylee...lacks about 3inches in height and legs, but carries an extra 100lbs and sports a nice mustache...might be harder to write the love scenes with the Doc for that one. and yet, the same desire to live free exists in my friend and she has some real mechanic/tech skills.
Is Mal a Robin Hood? sometimes..if it made sense to him..but it isn't his mission.. He has no intention of overthrowing the sheriff. He just wants to live free apart from a world that no longer values his once held moral (and religious) code.
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Is Mal a Robin Hood? sometimes..if it made sense to him..but it isn't his mission.. He has no intention of overthrowing the sheriff. He just wants to live free apart from a world that no longer values his once held moral (and religious) code.
Ah, but you have to consider it in terms of his character arc. This is what he SAYS, but is it what he feels? Given the choice between what's sensible and convenient for him and what is right, Mal tends to fall on the side of right more often than not, which is part of the reason they have trouble finding work and why they're so poor.
Logically he knows better than to poke the Alliance's sleeping dragon, and he's more than willing to pick and choose his battles now that he's older and wiser and maybe feels a little used by the Independents. He probably wouldn't go that particular route again if the Independents ever did actually rise up and start recruiting for another war. But in the movie he's pushed to confront the Alliance, and while he didn't really have a choice, it's a step on the road to some greater story for him.
One of the more positive possibilities along that trend is Mal reclaims his ideals and heroism, which he hasn't quite abandoned completely. And if he does, and if the expression of his heroism comes with more conflict against the Alliance or Blue Sun, then Mal likely becomes very much a Robin Hood figure.
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Quote:Mal will be forced to or else die. Being a criminal is harder than ever because Mal and Serenity will get police surveillance like never before.
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
. . . it's a step on the road to some greater story for him. One of the more positive possibilities along that trend is Mal reclaims his ideals and heroism, which he hasn't quite abandoned completely. . .
After Miranda, Mal should be at the top of Interpol's suspected criminal list, or whatever Interplanetary police are named. And that ship of his is almost one of his body parts. Where Serenity refuels or docks, Interpol will know where he is. Mal's criminal life is much more difficult, assuming the Whedons don't purge Mal's records magically. Official amnesia? Lost his file? A little too convenient for believable stories.
I'm thinking Mal must become less criminal or else Interpol will harass him endlessly, again assuming the Whedons don't magically make Interpol so incompetent that it can't stop criminals that habitually rob Alliance payrolls and Alliance hospitals and the homes of Alliance generals (retired).
You might imagine Mal becoming a super cautious criminal that slips around police surveillance. But caution does not seem to be in his DNA.
In his new life after the movie Mal needs to stop robbing the Alliance or else he will piss them off and they will end him without a trial. The Alliance seems crude enough to murder annoyances such as Mal just on strong suspicion. He has been released before, but I think those days of leniency are in the past because of his most recent history.
The Joss Whedon script for "Serenity," where Wash lives, is
Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/two
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Mal will be forced to or else die.
Yes, that's unfortunately the OTHER likely outcome. Mal may very well be in a death spiral. After seeing the movie we'd like to think that tying Book and their Haven friends to Serenity and losing Wash was his lowest point, but maybe it's not, and his story will just continue to get more tragic and desperate and reckless and lost until the inevitable happens. Perhaps what good that appears to happen for Mal is just a temporary reprieve from the darkness which will quickly cloud in again. Or the good outcomes we've seen may actually make things worse in the long run.
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Mal's criminal life is much more difficult, assuming the Whedons don't purge Mal's records magically. Official amnesia? Lost his file? A little too convenient for believable stories.
I think I read somewhere that the Operative did doctor some files and revoked their fugitive status before he went AWOL, including for Simon and River (maybe in the novelization?), but he says in the movie that the Alliance is likely to continue looking for Simon and River and they might just put out new warrants. But in the movie the Operative specifically calls out that the Alliance is ONLY interested in Simon and River. Mal and crew may be in the clear.
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The Alliance seems crude enough to murder annoyances such as Mal just on strong suspicion.
The Alliance seems crude enough that they'd make up some evidence that Mal and Zoe rejoined the Dust Devils and they were the ones who bombarded the settlement on Haven, and they're now terrorists to be executed on sight. Wanted Dead or Alive.
But, I haven't gotten that vibe yet from what little we have from the end of the movie or post-movie.
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Quote:There are stories where Mal continues his morally compromised lifestyle, and the Alliance strategically keeps a distance from Serenity for good reasons, and I get entertained:
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
Mal may very well be in a death spiral . . . and his story will just continue to get more tragic and desperate and reckless and lost until the inevitable happens.
"You owe me your life," says the Operative.
"I'd say we're even," firmly declares Mal.
"Your crew's lives don't count? And there would be satisfaction seeing Adelai Niska dead."
"I'm never sentimental except about being paid. And I never like meeting reprehensible people. Ain't speaking of Niska, either."
Mal and the Operative negotiate a deal. Mal as the bait for catching Niska is less terrible than Mal becoming a law-abiding-pussy. He'd be better off dead. The stories Mal will tell in his old age about bringing down bigger criminals for the law. Jayne's grandchildren will laugh at Grandpa's wicked exploits!
The Joss Whedon script for "Serenity," where Wash lives, is
Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/two
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