Season 4 opinions?
POSTED BY: RhymePhile
UPDATED: Saturday, June 25, 2005 17:25
VIEWED: 21761
PAGE 3 of 10
I should have added this previously: For anyone who just bought the Angel season 4 box set and hasn't seen all of season 4 yet: don't listen to the commentary on "Apocalypse, Nowish." Steven and Vern completely give away the entire season in their brief commentary for the episode.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
All of me is beautiful and valuable, even the ugly, stupid, and disgusting parts.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Do they explain why the beast attacked wolfram and hart?
Do they explain why Jasmine would want Angelus loose? Lila says "he'll kill us all" or something like that to which Cordie replies "why do you think I let him out" or something along those lines. Since she immediately after killed Lila she really had no reason to lie at that point. However, Jasmine didn't seem to want anyone dead really. She just wanted blind happiness and to have some people to eat once in a while. I don't think she'd even have killed anyone if she didn't have to feed on them. Seems odd that she wanted Angelus to kill everyone then.
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
No explantions...they never even explained why the dead lawyers at Wolfram & Hart became zombies. Fred brings it up at one point, wondering if the Beast has that power as well, but it wasn't discussed.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
All of me is beautiful and valuable, even the ugly, stupid, and disgusting parts.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
I think the Beast and the Master wanted W&H out of the game. Lilah says when the apocalypse stuff starts happening that it was interfering with their apocalypse and she was not going to let that happen. W&H had what Lorne had gotten off of Cordelia and the Master did not want W&H to figure out what they were going to do. Plus, if Jasmine really did not want to harm anyone (which I do not buy, she did not want to harm anyone IF they did not get in her way and until she got hungry) then she would want W&H out of the way because they were evil. I think the Master wanted W&H out of the way and for the gang to be distracted. Stephen S. Deknight said in the commentary that Cordelia was trying to distract Angel to get him and the gang out of the way. The Beast rained fire from the sky to facilitate Cordy and Conner's consummation. As to the zombies, I'll have to watch those eps again before I comment on that. As for Angelus being loose, I think the Master wanted as much chaos to be going on as possible before her "birth" to make it easier to emerge uninterrupted and to conquer LA and then the world. If Angelus killed Gunn, Fred, and Wes then the gang would not be able to stop her plan. If the gang was busy searching for and fighting Angelus then they could not stop her plan. I think it was in her best interest to keep the gang and W&H busy, distracted, or dead for her plan to come to fruition. Think about it, if W&H were against the Master's plan which I think they were based on Lilah's words and her obvious fear, then the Master would want them out of commission. They are extremely powerful with the backing of the senior partners and the Master did not want to risk any interference with her plan.
Edited to add: I forgot to mention another reason for the Beast to attack W&H. He wanted to get to Mezehktet(sp?). He was systematically killing off the members of the Ra-Tet. He needed their power to block out the sun. Mezehktet (the little girl in the white room) was also the conduit which provided the senior partners an earthly presence. So in addition to getting closer to blotting out the sun, the Beast ensured that the senior partners were temporarily out of commission so they could not interfere with the Master's plans.
May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Why doesn't Evil!Cordy just kill them all in their sleep then?...
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
I don't think the Master/Cordy wanted to kill the gang. She obviously could not harm Connor. And I think she wanted the rest of the gang alive so that under her thrall they could do her bidding, at the very least she wanted Angel for that purpose.
May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Oh yeah the girl in the white room. OK that makes the wolfram and hart attack a little more justified. But only a little. Especially when you consider blotting out the sun had no point.
The reason I don't buy that everything was a distraction is just because of how much of a point they made the whole season about what the point of all of it was. Then to find out that really there was no point...it was just random stuff to make it a full season rather than the 5 actual episodes of plot that they had....seems super shallow and pointless.
Maybe it was just one of Joss's things where he is making sure to not give the audience what they expect but it just doesn't flow at all to me. It's a one sentence excuse for a lot of episodes of rising action.
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Exactly.
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by Zeek:
Oh yeah the girl in the white room. OK that makes the wolfram and hart attack a little more justified. But only a little. Especially when you consider blotting out the sun had no point.
The reason I don't buy that everything was a distraction is just because of how much of a point they made the whole season about what the point of all of it was. Then to find out that really there was no point...it was just random stuff to make it a full season rather than the 5 actual episodes of plot that they had....seems super shallow and pointless.
Maybe it was just one of Joss's things where he is making sure to not give the audience what they expect but it just doesn't flow at all to me. It's a one sentence excuse for a lot of episodes of rising action.
You may still think there was no point after reading this, but here goes anyway. I think there was a point to blotting out the sun. It was to motivate the gang to bring about Angelus. The Beast blotted out the sun. All along the gang was fighting the Beast to no avail to say the least. The Master (IMO) knows that the gang is a very formidable opponent if they have Angel. Without him (as Gunn and others pointed out several times) they are directionless to a degree. Granted all of the gang have their strong points, but they do not function to their fullest without Angel leading them. So the Beast blots out the sun and then Cordy conveniently gets a vision of the Beast talking with Angelus. The gang was desperate and the only lead they had was that Angelus was to some unknown degree connected to the Beast. They thought they had no choice but to bring about Angelus to find out what he knew. This is the point of blotting out the sun. The Master (for whatever reason) wanted Angelus brought forth (Cordy/Master said so, I believe when she was talking to Angelus in that hilarious voice). Now, why did the Master want Angelus around instead of Angel? Could be to distract the gang from fighting against her. Could be she thought Angelus would do her bidding more aggressively if he did not have that pesky soul holding him back. Could be the writers wanted Angelus to make an appearance and this was the reason they came up with. Or it could be for a myriad of other reasons. I was not in the writer's room (unfortunately) so anything I come up with is just supposition. However, Steven S Deknight said in the commentary for Apocalypse Nowish that they had to scramble and change the order or timeframe of exposing certain things because of The WB. When The WB announced the air dates of the eps, it conflicted with what they were expecting and had to adjust some things to compensate. I don't know if that had anything what so ever to do with it, just wanted to throw it out there.
May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME