wildfires and politics
POSTED BY: mal4prez
UPDATED: Sunday, August 9, 2026 14:08
VIEWED: 27581
PAGE 10 of 15
Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
The problem w/ the PO, if you think about it for half a second, which you obviously haven't, is that if it's unable to collect a bit more here and there it never can build up a reserve for the unexpected. It ALWAYS ends up either at par (not often) or behind (most of the time, while it's waiting for a review to allow it to raise its rates just enough to catch up to the past). Overall, it calculates to being behind. It doesn't matter if you call it profit or a reserve, a prudent operating BUSINESS cushion is a good thing.
But capitalist profit? Where people who have capital get personally paid for NO OTHER REASON THAN having capital, at every turn of the cycle ... not a good thing.
If you REALLY REALLY want people to be getting the full value if their work - you do, don't you? - you can't allow that kind of profit.
And you have obviously only thought about it for half a second. You have a lack of imagination, you embody the Can't Do spirit, which funny enough, is the hallmark of a lot of gov agencies. That's why I suggested entrepreneurs (does that word scare or anger you?).
Here's a list of some of the kinds of problem solvers that are out there:
http://www.fastcompany.com/most-innovative-companies/2012/full-list
They would love the challenge, they'd probably line up to "fix" the post office, and they would either go around or find a way to change the funding issues. Creative people find solutions, they don't stop at the first road block, they enjoy the challenge.
Besides fixing the Post Office, I'd love to hear what you think my other "ignorant right wing" ideas are. I don't think I've even had a single one. Maybe you have confused me for someone else?
I'd also like to hear you answer to my earlier question:
"Do you think insulting people some how makes you more right?" I know you hate it when AU doesn't answer direct questions, so I'm sure you'll be happy to answer this one.
Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com
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Hello Frem,
What size of kilt do you wear?
--Anthony
Note to Self:
Raptor - woman testifying about birth control is a slut (the term fits.)
Six - Wow, isn't Niki quite the CUNT? And, yes, I spell that in all caps....
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.
“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -Thomas Szasz
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Quote:PIZMO, have you even THOUGHT about the Post Office, or for one second tried to figure out the reality of their situation?
They would love the challenge, they'd probably line up to "fix" the post office, and they would either go around or find a way to change the funding issues. Creative people find solutions, they don't stop at the first road block, they enjoy the challenge.
So there I was at the PO, and I needed to make a photocopy. Had to run a couple of stores down to find one, and finally got around to asking the PO clerk Say, have you ever thought of putting a photocopier in here? Or fax? The answer was We are FORBIDDEN to do that. Same with a number of other nifty services the PO might offer... internet access, packaging as a service, and so forth. It's hard... impossible, really... to come up with nifty solutions if you're prevented by law from implementing them. Because the PO - that weird public-private hybrid - is not supposed to be actually competing with Kinkos and UPS and FedEx for god's sake. Heaven forfend. They might actually out-compete the competition. Nope, the PO is meant to be a money-loser... to have to live on the dregs that the "real" companies find unprofitable.
It is for that same reason that the public option was eliminated from our health-care plan. Not because it might be inefficient, but because it might be TOO successful. Might actually.. yanno... force the health insurance to do something for their money other than screw their customers.
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Hello,
It's very irritating to see otherwise intelligent and thoughtful people accuse one another of not thinking. "If you would bother to think for a second" and "have you even bothered to think" and all their cousins are unfriendly sentiments.
I am sure a thoughtful person is aware of the fact that the Post Office operates under limitations so as not to compete very well with private business.
I am sure a thoughtful person is aware that if private business was introduced into the Post Office, this would be less of a concern and allow competitive innovations.
I am sure a thoughtful person is aware that privatization introduces its own pitfalls and spectres which would have to be navigated to ensure an equitable situation.
I am sure a thoughtful person is aware that both positions offer their own problems.
So rather than starting every statement with a suggestion that the opponent is a thoughtless dumbkopf, perhaps we could simply present our arguments and let the merit of what we say shine through.
--Anthony
Note to Self:
Raptor - woman testifying about birth control is a slut (the term fits.)
Six - Wow, isn't Niki quite the CUNT? And, yes, I spell that in all caps....
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.
“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -Thomas Szasz
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WISHIMAY
Quote:Ah, I see where this whole idiotic argument started. Forgive me if I don't re-read the entire thread and then wind up repeating some points.
There will still be natural disasters WITH or WITHOUT government. I'd rather say "Ta hell with Gov't, I'll pay MY insurance and look after me n' mine, you stay on yer side of the line!" than have them be all up in my business AND do nothing in the face of disasters...which, judging by the track record- they are pretty damn good at...
There have always been large burn-offs, and most likely always will be. Harsh truths of nature...I've pretty much built half this place with my own two hands, but if it were ta burn....So what??? I'm not gonna stand around and whine that no one helped me out, I'm gonna get my ass up and KEEP GOING...that's what. Do what's best for me and mine NO MATTER WHAT.
There is more going on with forest fire than YOUR house, or even a bunch of houses. Forests, by themselves, are an essential public good. Aside from turning carbon dioxide into wood (climate regulation is an essential public good) and releasing oxygen from water (oxygen is an essential public good), they provide a habitat for a number of species (biodiversity is an essential public good) and regulate stream flow (surface water is an essential public good) and aquifer recharge (ground water is an essential public good). That's not counting the pleasure they bring to outdoor recreation and the lumber they provide.
So I see that your capacity to imagine a scope of any situation which is immediately beyond "your and yours" is rather limited. Insurance won't cover these costs.
As far as "large burnoffs" always occurring, the sad fact is that the burnoffs now are record sizes, not just here but around the world due to global climate shift. Also, in this nation, due to a previous policy of stamping out fires as soon as possible. The policy ended in 1983, as I recall, but the forests are now chock-o-block full of fuel. Where there used to be 50-100 trees per acre, there are now as much as 600. Thanks to previous policies and global climate shift, the forests need active management. Since forest management is not ever likely to produce a profit, private companies will never make the investment, no matter how high the cost of failure or how large the benefit of success.
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Quote:
the forests need active management.
Hello,
I strongly agree with this. I think if a sufficient investment was made before the fires started, then we'd be in a better position to contain the fires when they happened or even to largely prevent them.
Sadly, as you pointed out, this is not seen as a money-maker. This is doubly unfortunate when you consider how many assets are used up or lost in these fires. Ounce of prevention vs pound of cure.
--Anthony
Note to Self:
Raptor - woman testifying about birth control is a slut (the term fits.)
Six - Wow, isn't Niki quite the CUNT? And, yes, I spell that in all caps....
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.
“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -Thomas Szasz
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Quote:
Originally posted by SIGNYM:Quote:PIZMO, have you even THOUGHT about the Post Office, or for one second tried to figure out the reality of their situation?
They would love the challenge, they'd probably line up to "fix" the post office, and they would either go around or find a way to change the funding issues. Creative people find solutions, they don't stop at the first road block, they enjoy the challenge.
So there I was at the PO, and I needed to make a photocopy. Had to run a couple of stores down to find one, and finally got around to asking the PO clerk Say, have you ever thought of putting a photocopier in here? Or fax? The answer was We are FORBIDDEN to do that. Same with a number of other nifty services the PO might offer... internet access, packaging as a service, and so forth. It's hard... impossible, really... to come up with nifty solutions if you're prevented by law from implementing them. Because the PO - that weird public-private hybrid - is not supposed to be actually competing with Kinkos and UPS and FedEx for god's sake. Heaven forfend. They might actually out-compete the competition. Nope, the PO is meant to be a money-loser... to have to live on the dregs that the "real" companies find unprofitable.
It is for that same reason that the public option was eliminated from our health-care plan. Not because it might be inefficient, but because it might be TOO successful. Might actually.. yanno... force the health insurance to do something for their money other than screw their customers.
I'm a shameless, true believer in the creative mind, the Problem Solvers - these are my heroes - I'll take whatever blame you want to give me for that.
To me, your post only outlines the problems, a place to start, not stop. To throw up your hands is to say, "Can't make it go further." I know, that's a quote from a television show, but I've seen the benefits. When I schlepped as a photo assistant (some grip) our mantra was, "there's alway a solution." Lose a tripod? Make a tripod. Again I know, can't fix the PO with duct tape (well, maybe), but that same attitude I learned then has been a great ally ever since and in much more important circumstances. So go ahead, say "It" can't be done, fine.
Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com
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"Do you think insulting people some how makes you more right?"
No, I just enjoy it. I enjoy irritating the people who irritate me. And unlike little Rappy, I'll actually address the questions with real facts and logic. It's my facts and my arguments that make me more right. But if you skip past both I can see how that might be lost on you.
"... to throw up your hands is to say, "Can't make it go further.""
There's a difference between saying "can't" and "by law forbidden to". Signy and myself are both saying the PO is FORBIDDEN/ CONSTRAINED from running in new ways that makes sense and from doing new things that are useful. Don't blame the PO for lack of vision or initiative. Blame the roadblocks that are specifically put in front of the PO, and the hobbles specifically placed on it.
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Hey gang,
Is there perhaps a generational divide in this (and other) discussions on the board? 50-somethings "condescending" to 20-somethings? I know I come up against that wall here, thinking to myself "Oh, well, they're just kids," and walking away from a conflict. Now, of course, I've gotten into plenty of wrangles with my fellow grown ups, to be sure. Just wondering if the older, wiser participants might consider imagining the younger posters as nephews/nieces or beloved students and I wonder if the younger folk wouldn't get further in these conflicts if they recognized that the argument is naturally gonna be a little slanted against them owing to simple inexperience and other developmental issues. Is that too utopian of me?
Having spent some time in and around tribal cultures, I find a lot of value in gerentocracy as a model of governance (within a close-nit small community such as the RWED 
). I'm really sorry if that sounds "condescending" to the youngsters hereabout, but in a healthy community shouldn't that have some bearing??? Just felt the need to point out what certainly looks like an elephant in the chatroom.
HKCavalier
Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.
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Quote:
No, I just enjoy it. I enjoy irritating the people who irritate me. And unlike little Rappy, I'll actually address the questions with real facts and logic. It's my facts and my arguments that make me more right. But if you skip past both I can see how that might be lost on you.
Hello,
I think this is the wrong approach. Once you incense someone, they are less likely to consider what you are saying. This prevents a subject from being as thoughtfully discussed as it might be otherwise. If the object of these discussions is to either A) educate or B) examine, then insults are self defeating. Insults are only useful if the object is to infuriate someone or make them feel bad. (Which is perhaps a sign that the benign portion of a conversation is at an end.)
Perhaps most importantly, if you enjoy having your own assumptions challenged, insulting someone is counter-productive. It invariably reduces the effectiveness of their analysis by contaminating their rational thought processes with the desire to throttle you.
I try to reserve insults for people or conversations that are no longer useful or productive in any way. Perhaps you feel this thread or your partner in these discussions fits that mold?
--Anthony
Note to Self:
Raptor - woman testifying about birth control is a slut (the term fits.)
Six - Wow, isn't Niki quite the CUNT? And, yes, I spell that in all caps....
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.
“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -Thomas Szasz
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