wildfires and politics
POSTED BY: mal4prez
UPDATED: Sunday, August 9, 2026 14:08
VIEWED: 27581
PAGE 5 of 15
Quote:
Originally posted by Wishimay:Quote:
Originally posted by PhoenixRose:
If there was a way to fight that off, requiring some specialized training and gear that a government system can provide far more ably than any individual... you're saying that shouldn't be done because everyone should just "be prepared" to fight off their own goddamn tornado? Because if you're saying that, you are wrong on a level that makes my head spin.
I'm saying that PEOPLE should do more to fix things themselves, and quit sitting on their hands going "Gov't, oh gov't, save me save me..." I don't believe a gov't IS more able, to do ANYTHING. A local problem is better fixed by people who are local than some idiot about to tee off a thousand miles away. Ever heard of civilian organizations?
Can you tell me which non-government civilian organization built the Hoover Dam or the Golden Gate Bridge?
Can you tell me which non-government civilian organization electrified the rural United States? Or even your city?
"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero
"I've not watched the video either, or am incapable of intellectually dealing with the substance of this thread, so I'll instead act like a juvenile and claim victory..." - Rappy
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I see Kwickie has his usual selective reading skills on display.
Ever heard of C.C. Myers ? Google is your friend.
" We're all just folk. " - Mal
" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall
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Quote:
Originally posted by Wishimay:
I'm saying that PEOPLE should do more to fix things themselves, and quit sitting on their hands going "Gov't, oh gov't, save me save me..." I don't believe a gov't IS more able, to do ANYTHING.
I see. Well, out of respect for your views, I hope that if your house ever catches fire, the government-run fire department will leave you to deal with it on your own.
What reason had proved best ceased to look absurd to the eye, which shows how idle it is to think anything ridiculous except what is wrong.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:Quote:
Originally posted by Wishimay:Quote:
Originally posted by PhoenixRose:
If there was a way to fight that off, requiring some specialized training and gear that a government system can provide far more ably than any individual... you're saying that shouldn't be done because everyone should just "be prepared" to fight off their own goddamn tornado? Because if you're saying that, you are wrong on a level that makes my head spin.
I'm saying that PEOPLE should do more to fix things themselves, and quit sitting on their hands going "Gov't, oh gov't, save me save me..." I don't believe a gov't IS more able, to do ANYTHING. A local problem is better fixed by people who are local than some idiot about to tee off a thousand miles away. Ever heard of civilian organizations?
Can you tell me which non-government civilian organization built the Hoover Dam or the Golden Gate Bridge?
Can you tell me which non-government civilian organization electrified the rural United States? Or even your city?
"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero
"I've not watched the video either, or am incapable of intellectually dealing with the substance of this thread, so I'll instead act like a juvenile and claim victory..." - Rappy
And before we even start with the idea that private companies would do better: for-profit companies won't bother putting in internet in the rural areas, where there's not enough customers. That's not how a country gets technologically advanced. We need to do things because it's good for the overall health and progress of the US, not because it profits share-holders and nets big bonuses for CEOs.
And because I am in a rare position of thread-starter, I will kindly ask Kwicko to not turn this into a flame war with the usual poster who is dangling the usual low-hanging fruit. Yes he's wrong, yes he's annoying in his misunderstanding of the topic, gross generalizations, strawmen, etc. But stating the obvious will do nothing but turn this thread into the usual tit-for-tat. Thank you so much for not doing it.
In CO: the afternoon line of thunderstorms has not exploded as it did yesterday. Very good news! I just caught a time lapse of the fire taking off during the storm yesterday. Insane
Re Obama: I'm glad he's bringing attention and support to this, but I wish he would not visit so soon. It would better to avoid the distraction until the fire is really out. Better that he voice his support and send someone minor who wouldn't disrupt operations, then come in a week or two. Hopefully his visit will be brief.
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Quote:
Originally posted by PhoenixRose:Quote:
Originally posted by Wishimay:
I'm saying that PEOPLE should do more to fix things themselves, and quit sitting on their hands going "Gov't, oh gov't, save me save me..." I don't believe a gov't IS more able, to do ANYTHING.
I see. Well, out of respect for your views, I hope that if your house ever catches fire, the government-run fire department will leave you to deal with it on your own.
PR, your reply is exactly what I'm taking about. Over the top hyperbole and distortion of the issue. No one has ever said what you're suggesting, and yet you keep saying it anyways. It's beyond infuriating to even try to have a sensible , reasonable discussion , it seems.
" We're all just folk. " - Mal
" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall
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That isn't respect for her views at all! :P
Honestly, I've been avoiding addressing the thread topic myself for a reason - it is actually difficult for me to reconcile that there probably are services we DO need, with my hatred and dislike for anything bureaucratic, and my paranoia that when you give people that power, they could deliberately WITHHOLD help and that it may be a bad precedence.
My best effort to justify myself all this says that I shouldn't try to take services and security away from the people who want them, but rather I should move outside of the jurisdication of those services. My personal disaster plan is that I don't really want to own so much stuff that any of it amounts to any significant wealth that could be lost or that I couldn't pack up and flee ahead of any disaster, natural or man-made. But that isn't because I'm somehow better than people who do want an easier life, or because I'm a pull myself up by the bootstraps person (I'm not), but rather because I can admit that I have a very skewed worldview and somewhat low opinion about my own self-worth.
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Quote:
Originally posted by PhoenixRose:Quote:
Originally posted by Wishimay:
I'm saying that PEOPLE should do more to fix things themselves, and quit sitting on their hands going "Gov't, oh gov't, save me save me..." I don't believe a gov't IS more able, to do ANYTHING.
I see. Well, out of respect for your views, I hope that if your house ever catches fire, the government-run fire department will leave you to deal with it on your own.
What reason had proved best ceased to look absurd to the eye, which shows how idle it is to think anything ridiculous except what is wrong.
Anthony totally called it. (I love him too PR! What a voice of reason.) It's interesting that "groups of people working together" is deemed A-OK, but "government" is evil and useless. Really, wishimay did suggest that the govt is 100% useless. Which suggests that she isn't watching the news in CO right now.
I think the difference is that "government" has attempted to regulate big business, so big business bought itself a political party, carried out a propaganda war, and a large part of the country has bought into the nonsense.
I don't mean to completely villain-ize wish. She and I share a similar frustration with people expecting the government to save them, but my frustration is not that govt aid is wanted as much as that it is expected without being supported. People will cheer Romney and his cutting of fire depts and teachers, but then they'll scream when their house isn't saved or when a weak, pushover old lady is employed as a bus monitor and can't handle middle school bullies. (How's that for a change in topic LOL! I've seen complaints about this on other sites.) But I think it's similar - public schools need support if they are to hire more competent employees. Fire depts need support to be prepared for things like this.
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Quote:
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
That isn't respect for her views at all! :P
Well, she said that she thought the govt groups could NOT do a good job. So keeping those "incompetents" away from her seems like it'd be a kindness.
Quote:
Honestly, I've been avoiding addressing the thread topic myself for a reason - it is actually difficult for me to reconcile that there probably are services we DO need, with my hatred and dislike for anything bureaucratic, and my paranoia that when you give people that power, they could deliberately WITHHOLD help and that it may be a bad precedence.
That's a terrifying thought. I understand your fear, and I don't think this kind of caution should ever go away. The only way to stop abuse of power is to be aware of the possibility of it.
But I don't think it has to handicap us. The root of it is that we all so easily see "Them", the people in charge, as some other species. As Anthony said, govt is just groups of people trying to help each other. You can see it in CO right now, and I say this as someone who pretty disdains most of the population of the Springs. Bunch of Focus on the Family Fuckwads.
But they are all about getting through this as a city right now, and it's lovely.Yes, to live in a society and enjoy the benefits of it, you have to give "Them" power, and that's scary. But if you ask your neighbors to feed your cat while you're away you are also handing power to people you do not know 100%. There is always risk in interacting with other people.
All you can do is be careful. Checks and balances. I find the risk is always lower than my fears and the news would have me think. I often don't lock my front door or my car (unless I leave my computer in there.) And it's really OK. Not everyone is out to get me. I have the top off my Jeep now, and I leave stuff in there while it's parked in the train station all day, and all is well.
Really, I think the "bad" out there is so much smaller than most of us think.
Quote:
My best effort to justify myself all this says that I shouldn't try to take services and security away from the people who want them, but rather I should move outside of the jurisdication of those services. My personal disaster plan is that I don't really want to own so much stuff that any of it amounts to any significant wealth that could be lost or that I couldn't pack up and flee ahead of any disaster, natural or man-made. But that isn't because I'm somehow better than people who do want an easier life, or because I'm a pull myself up by the bootstraps person (I'm not), but rather because I can admit that I have a very skewed worldview and somewhat low opinion about my own self-worth.
I respect that. I am similarly skewed, and my theory is to at least not harm others with my skewed-ness. This involves a bit of keeping myself separate, so I know what you mean.
But I'm definitely a pull-myself-up kind of person. I feel that, with the exception of one parental $$ loan that I did not have to pay back, no one ever gave me anything. However, I've found a decent place in life by taking advantage of opportunities that could have easily not been there. I owe a debt to karma, and frankly I don't do enough to pay it back. I'm not really sure how to, besides trying to be a nicer person. (I don't always succeed.
) Hopefully I'll find ways to do more as I get older.NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
"It would better to avoid the distraction until the fire is really out."
Just a small bit I find interesting - here in SoCal fires continue to burn underground for months until the rainy season. I'm not sure what would happen if we had a major fire followed by a severe drought with 4" of rain or less.
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I don't think you get anything I said really, including that I am not conservative. Neither am I liberal. I wouldn't claim either side. In fact, I think people choosing sides just bogs EVERYTHING down...
I'm saying I don't want anybody risking their life over a damn building, especially mine, as you can have a better one ordered and built in the same month, now. I am also saying that I see these wildfires every year, and its pretty clear that Gov't is fairly ineffectual at doing much of anything about 'em 'cause they still get out of control every year. Saving a building here or there, or a person who wouldn't leave, while noble... doesn't make much sense to me anyway. It's like standing in front of a tornado blowing a whistle in the hopes it'll go the other direction. Fighting a giant fire one yard at a time seems pretty futile in my book. And why?? To save stuff, or avoid higher insurance premiums??? Save the people who need it, forget about the junk...
And Firefighters do more than just fight fires. I'm not saying we should get rid of Firefighters. I'm saying I think they should be funded and run by civillian organizations. I think WE ALL depend on gov't too much. Some people like that...I don't. I doubt my opinion will change much.
I'll avoid saying "I Told You So" when they start by regulating customs like circumcision, and end up doing worse, like medical experiments on soldiers, or drafting people to fight wars they don't believe in, or accidentally blowing up whole buildings full with drones.... wait... I guess those were necessary evils for civilization, right?
When you seek Gov't protection, you get what you get...
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