wildfires and politics

POSTED BY: mal4prez
UPDATED: Sunday, August 9, 2026 14:08
VIEWED: 27581
PAGE 3 of 15

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Originally posted by mal4prez:
I'm glued to the online broadcast of the fire in Colorado Springs. It hasn't hit the wider web yet, but you can get the local news here:

http://www.krdo.com/news/WATCH-LIVE-KRDO-NewsChannel-13/-/417220/14776
454/-/12eydmxz/-/index.html

The western suburbs are burning, 32,000 are evacuated, my dad's office building has burned down, my parents are in their home 6 miles away from the fire with their car packed, ready to go.

Setting aside my own grief and worry, I'm shaking my head at the politics that are already started about this. They just had a news conference and some yahoo was already at it, trying to set this disaster up as the fault of the federal gov't "getting in the way" or something. (All the people actually fighting the fire flat-out set him straight about that.) Yet, this is also the feds' fault for not doing enough. Never mind the extremely dry conditions, the multiple days of 100+ degree heat, or the 60 mph winds that whipped up at exactly the wrong time this afternoon.

I'm trying not to let my shock and worry lead me to saying mean things, but I need to ask our conservative friends if they really want to get rid of the federal govt and leave every community in the country to battle disasters like this on their own. You can't have it both ways. You can't cut everything back, then demand instant and unlimited help when you need it. You can't say you want the feds the hell out of your life, then blame them when they don't swoop down and save you in a near impossible situation.

So many other issues related to this. Climate change, for instance... ?

Anyway, please discuss. I'll be up all night anyway, checking to see which way this thing goes.

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I've sent my first e-mail to my homeowner's insurance company about my HUGE increase in payments in my 2nd year here. It's over a 10% increase.

Just like Government "spreading the wealth" everyone has to pay for it in the end....

I'm considering dumping my insurance altogether....

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Originally posted by Wishimay:

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Originally posted by mal4prez:

There will still be natural disasters WITH or WITHOUT government.

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Indeed. Yet we are capable of doing something about them.

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Exactly what I was going to say. Government can try to reduce the effects of future disasters, with better building regulations and training, but they are needed to mobilize the equipment, manpower and MONEY necessary to stop it while it's happening, and to repair the large scale mess after, not repairing one house, but rebuilding the entire city, or replanting the entire forest, cleaning up the entire Gulf.

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Originally posted by Wishimay:

I support Firefighters, as I wouldn't allow one to risk THEIR life for my stupid house.
As for being un-prepared...If you live in Indiana, you SHOULD expect tornadoes, if you live in one of those areas in California you should expect mudslides...live near a forest in summer, prolly outta expect a fire could happen... We had some tornadoes in this area last year. WE didn't get federal aid because people got off their butts and cleaned it up themselves. That's the way it should be...

Life is unexpected. If you have an interest in your own, might wanna plan for the unexpected.

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It's not about one house. If this fire was left on its own, much of this city would have gone last night, and it'd beset to really take off when the winds pick up later today. Really, left alone, this fire could demolish the city. And that would do a lot more harm than to those silly folks who had the temerity to build their homes near trees. [/snark]

For instance, my dad's business office, which thankfully did NOT burn. I found out this morning that hundreds of firefighters were right there and saved it. (Thankfully, what I'm seeing on the news is that the firefighters did an amazing job holding this thing back all through that neighborhood.) That's not just good for dad's job - this is a major communications hub, and losing it would have affected a lot of people.

Here's what I mean that we are not 7 billion separate independent entities. You and I greatly benefit from being in a SOCIETY. Could you build that computer you're typing on? Could you write the software that runs the internet and lay all the wires connecting the world and run the power plants that make the electrons in the wires wiggle? Of course not. No individual can do all that. Someone else did it for you. And me.

But they were able to do it for us because we provide services in return. I don't know what you do for a living, but I teach. Because of what teachers do, people don't have to stay home and school their kids all day. They can do to work and build the internet. And because someone else prepares fairly nutritious and easy to prepare frozen dinners for Trader Joe's, I can be well fed without having to grow a garden or butcher a chicken or even chop veggies. So I can focus on grading and preparing my classes. See?

There is interdependence in our system, and that's why we're not hunter-gatherers anymore. (Though, really, that also relied on team work.) On the downside, that means one part of our system getting damaged hurts all of us.

OK, 9-11. Realistically, a very very small fraction of us were personally affected. A few thousand lost loved ones, probably tens of thousands lost their work places and homes. If we were complete individual automatons, not affected by each other at all, that event would have had no effect on a huge country of 300 million people.

But it did have a huge effect. We are connected. We rely on each other. To deny it is to deny what so many people have done to support the way of life you currently enjoy, and to refuse to contribute back is selfish and short-sighted, imo.

ETA: I am quite impressed at how positive and supportive people in the Springs are being about this. Most of them. Besides that first guy in the news conference last night, folks are being so cool and helpful. Especially the firefighters. I think there's a whole novel of stories going on back there that we haven't seen.

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Originally posted by Wishimay:
There will still be natural disasters WITH or WITHOUT government.

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To clarify, Wishimay said this, not me. And in that post seemed to suggest that we all take care of our own and to hell with organized, planned preparation by a central govt. That later part of the post is what I disagree with.

Because yes, of course disasters happen. And sometimes they take a turn for the worse, like yesterday, and the "authorities" may not be able to stop it. This does mean we blame them and get rid of them and refuse to support them - financially and politically - in the future.

Because natural disasters can be MUCH less devastating with a govt to provide aid. To suggest otherwise is just screwy.

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Originally posted by Wishimay:
being un-prepared...live near a forest in summer, prolly outta expect a fire could happen...
We had some tornadoes in this area last year. WE didn't get federal aid

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So everyone living in Colorado should train to fight fires?

You don't seem to comprehend that this is more than just a "mess" from a tornado destroying some buildings. There was a tornado in Weld county a few years ago (totally unexpected, btw, because the mountains usually block winds from being able to form strong funnel clouds; we get a few warnings, but very few actual tornadoes) and it was cleaned up without a whole lot of issue as well. A few people needed shelter from the Red Cross for a couple days, areas of Windsor were rebuilt, and life went on.
Fires are not really the same sort of animal. Imagine that instead of a funnel cloud touching down and demolishing a few blocks of buildings, you had a funnel cloud miles wide that just stayed on the ground. For days. Slowly advancing and devouring homes, businesses, farms, ranches, and natural preserves. If there was a way to fight that off, requiring some specialized training and gear that a government system can provide far more ably than any individual... you're saying that shouldn't be done because everyone should just "be prepared" to fight off their own goddamn tornado? Because if you're saying that, you are wrong on a level that makes my head spin.


What reason had proved best ceased to look absurd to the eye, which shows how idle it is to think anything ridiculous except what is wrong.

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Quote:

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Originally posted by Wishimay:


I support Firefighters, as I wouldn't allow one to risk THEIR life for my stupid house.
As for being un-prepared...If you live in Indiana, you SHOULD expect tornadoes, if you live in one of those areas in California you should expect mudslides...live near a forest in summer, prolly outta expect a fire could happen... We had some tornadoes in this area last year. WE didn't get federal aid because people got off their butts and cleaned it up themselves. That's the way it should be...

Life is unexpected. If you have an interest in your own, might wanna plan for the unexpected.

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Would you say the same thing about healthcare, or abortion? "Life's unexpected; deal with it yourself."

Seems a pretty cold way to live.

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Quote:

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Originally posted by mal4prez:

Quote:

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Originally posted by Wishimay:
There will still be natural disasters WITH or WITHOUT government.

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To clarify, Wishimay said this, not me. And in that post seemed to suggest that we all take care of our own and to hell with organized, planned preparation by a central govt. That later part of the post is what I disagree with.

Because yes, of course disasters happen. And sometimes they take a turn for the worse, like yesterday, and the "authorities" may not be able to stop it. This does mean we blame them and get rid of them and refuse to support them - financially and politically - in the future.

Because natural disasters can be MUCH less devastating with a govt to provide aid. To suggest otherwise is just screwy.

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If I mis -attributed this, it was unintentional. Sorry.

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Originally posted by NewOldBrownCoat:
If I mis -attributed this, it was unintentional. Sorry.

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No problem. Just wanted to make sure it's clear which side I'm arguing here. Not that there should be much doubt...

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Mal4, my heart really goes out to you. I've been watching the news, and when they put up a map with all the wildfires circled, it just boggles my mind. It's like the whole state is going up in flames in so many areas. Gawd forbid any of them should join up (tho' it looks like some already HAVE!). And I KNOW Magons empathizes; they just went through their own horrors Down Under a little while ago.

In my opinion, those who have the "I got mine, fuck you" mentality are full of shit. Why are we a union, if we're not going to take care of one another? Tho' I'm sure they'd prefer that, too, from the sound of them. Some people just don't get it or are so blinded by their "no government" stance that they're unable to see.

I really empathize; you know how many fires we get every year here in CA. Admittedly most of them are down South, but we get our share now and again. And yes, mudslides inevitably follow, if not when rain comes through to help with the fires, then for sure the next Winter. After all people have been through in a big fire, my heart aches for them when the mudslides come later and often wipe out some who survived the fires.

As for letting "natural" disasters do their own thing, does anyone remember when they tried that in Yellowstone, and what resulted? There are as many UNnatural fires these days as those Nature creates--like the people tossing cigarette butts out windows, or the idjits setting campfires without knowing how to contain them...not to mention the crazies who set them ON PURPOSE. There's also the fact that many non-native species have been brought into the picture by humans; we're fighting sudden-oak death which is leaving lots of dead trees around, there's a beetle which has destroyed more, and those dead trees are just asking for trouble...not to mention all the damned eucalyptus that was brought here and put up by farmers as windbreaks. Those puppies EXPLODE in a fire, they don't just burn; we had excellent evidence of the danger they represent a few years back when they took out a hospital in the East Bay. We've built and live in places we never should have, and affected where we live in ways Nature never intended; we've brought creation of wildfires where they would never happen naturally. I DO weep for the trees, and animals, and everything/everyone that fires destroy. Nature has a balance and I have to accept that, but "balance" is long gone.

For people to think they'll take care of things in their own area, they're missing the fact that keeping a corps of trained firefighters and waiting for a fire costs a lot of money. You can't just send guys out to fight a fire, they'd do more harm than good, and many would die. Firefighting is hard and tricky work, and if you can't call in people from out of state to help, you're eventually royally screwed.

I'd like to see how these "no government" people would feel if it really DID destroy everything they own; it's real easy to say "so what" until it hits YOU, or even, as is happening to Mal4 and others, when it hits those you love, their businesses and lives. The big Santa Cruz fire we had a couple of years back hit me like a ton of bricks, and I don't even know anyone down there who was affected. It's enough to know that places you've loved all your lives are gone forever and imagine what it would be like to see it coming toward your home. I don't think some people are able to imagine how it would feel or what it would do; it's easy to be blase about it until it hits home. I thank gawd we're surrounded by redwoods; those puppies are the best fire break in the world; but even that wouldn't help us if a fire broke out near our home.

I'm actually avoiding the news on it by now; I can't bear to see how many and how they keep going any more. I really feel for you, and

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