Real World Event Discussions

War on Men

POSTED BY: BYTEMITE
UPDATED: Sunday, May 3, 2026 22:40
VIEWED: 7363
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BYTEMITE

Thursday, May 17, 2012 11:48 PM

AuRaptor made a point recently that the number of women in elected office in politics is conclusive proof against a war on women.

This made me curious, how many people here have heard of a group called the Men's Rights Activists? What is your opinion on them, if any?

I have encountered this group in a number of places that I would not expect, which makes me think that guys who consider themselves part of the group are widespread on the internet.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Men%27s_rights

Quote:
The men's rights movement, a particular movement led by people who identify as men's rights activists, emerged in the United States during the late 1970s to ensure equitable rights for men in the wake of the feminist movement. Men's rights organizations refers to organizations belonging to this movement.[21]

The men's rights movement emerged in the 1970s to address inequities in reproductive rights, divorce settlements, domestic violence laws, and sexual harassment laws.[19][22] It now also includes education, other father's rights, health care, genital integrity and more.[citation needed] Advocates are known as men's rights activists, or MRAs. They claim that men are oppressed providers.[23] Men suffer from living shorter lives, having higher successful suicide rates and higher incidents of most stress-related disorders than women do.[5]

The Men's Rights, Inc. and Free Men, Inc. were both formed in 1977.[21][24] Recognizing the need to address key issues among fathers, the father's rights movement also began during this time period.[25][26]

The National Coalition of Free Men was formed in 1981. Women who support men's rights have included Naomi Penner, a women's rights activist who supported the creation of the National Coalition of Free Men and Christina Hoff Sommers who wrote about some of the ways the feminist movement negatively affected boys and men.

There are some things I think they have a point about. I think that it's important to be fair in our justice system and men do often get the shaft there (tend to be higher convictions and worse penalties, victims of false accusations, and rarely ever get child custody or a fair treatment on alimony or child support), and they also get a lot of expectations dumped on them by unfair societal dictation about gender roles.

But there are other things where I think they go too far and there's also this widespread attitude about blaming women for some of these problems, like fewer men in college entrance, and the life expectancy of men, and male suicide rates and anxiety. And they also tend to really downplay any problems that women might have.

There are some who want equity and some who think there is never going to be equity between genders, and that women have the power and have always had the power because they're the sexual selectors.

I don't think we can really have any equality unless we work together to improve things for both genders, and remove some of the social stereotypes about genders and roles so everyone's more free.

ANTHONYT

Friday, May 18, 2012 12:07 AM

Hello,

I support anyone who craves equal rights. There are inequities in certain systems that favor one person over another for dubious reasons.

On the other hand, I am suspicious of anyone who describes their sex as 'oppressed providers.'

The idea of any sex as a designated 'provider' should be a thing of the past, yet I sense they are rejecting to 'oppressed' and not the idea that they are perceived to have a special 'provider' role.

The idea of complaining about successful suicide rates is boggling to me. It's like claiming to be a victim of your own competence.

--Anthony

Note to Self:
Raptor - women who want to control their reproductive processes are sluts.
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.
Never forget what these men are.
“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -Thomas Szasz

AURAPTOR

Friday, May 18, 2012 12:14 AM

" We're all just folk. " - Mal

" AU, that was great, LOL!! " - Chrisisall

"The world is a dangerous place. Not because of the people who are evil; but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein

FREMDFIRMA

Friday, May 18, 2012 2:34 AM

I am kind of similar in opinion on it, Byte.

My issue is with folks who for all their talk of equality, are in truth seeking revenge for some perceived slight.
Mind you, I don't think that unwarranted in many cases, but as I've been known to tell women who seem to wanna take those issues out on me, to deliver that revenge on people who have specifically, themselves, done nothing TO you, feeds the cycle and makes you every bit as bad as what you claim to be against.

And that goes for men too, since a lot of these guys do the same bullshit - not to mention given the rightwingnut push to dehumanize women and strip them of their rights and personhood from a tremendous imbalance of legal power and authority...
Till these folk stand against THAT, publicly and loudly, they can kiss my ass.

As with politics, these issues too - most of em arguing about who gets to hold the leash, who gets to oppress who...
And not a fuckin ONE of em interested in cutting the leash or ending the oppression!

Human Rights for ALL Humans - or it's just tyranny any way you slice it.

-Frem

CANTTAKESKY

Friday, May 18, 2012 3:31 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by FREMDFIRMA:
Human Rights for ALL Humans - or it's just tyranny any way you slice it.
-Frem

That is why I don't like the term feminist. I think of myself as a humanist. (Yes, I know humanism is actually something different.)

Just like we need to start seeing children (legally and socially) as humans with equal rights, we need to do the same with both genders.

-----
So many gods, so many creeds,
So many paths that wind and wind,
While just the art of being kind
is all the sad world needs.
- Ella Wheeler Wilcox, poet (1850-1919)

BYTEMITE

Friday, May 18, 2012 6:23 AM

Anthony: Apparently women actually attempt suicide more than men do, but also fail more often. Men tend to be more successful than women at suicide, so more of them die.

ANTHONYT

Friday, May 18, 2012 2:34 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
Anthony: Apparently women actually attempt suicide more than men do, but also fail more often. Men tend to be more successful than women at suicide, so more of them die.

Hello,

Yes, I gathered that. Hence my 'victims of competence' line.

--Anthony

Note to Self:
Raptor - women who want to control their reproductive processes are sluts.
Wulf - Niki is a stupid fucking bitch who should hurry up and die.
Never forget what these men are.
“The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naive forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget.” -Thomas Szasz

NIKI2

Friday, May 18, 2012 3:21 PM

Yeah, Anthony, the "oppressed providers" thing made me snort. And what the hell is "genital integrity"??

If they want to talk about oppressed providers, I think there are far more women who's husbands or lovers walked out on them and any baby resulting from the union, and skip out on any kind of financial support. They're far more "oppressed providers", as I see it.

I recognize there is unfairness to both sides, but I'm sorry, given history I find it difficult to see men as "oppressed" in any way. For me, it's more "evening things up", and it's natural for those who've had the power throughout history to be pissed off when some of it is taken away, it's human nature.

But they get little sympahy from me. Rape is still frequent (and now in the military, even worse), spousal abuse is by FAR more committed by men, and men are still the vast majority of those in power. Maybe if/when we even things up, I'll take "oppression" of men more seriously...but we're VERY far from that!

BYTEMITE

Friday, May 18, 2012 3:22 PM

Well, I think it's a valid complaint that your people are actually dying, but I don't see how it makes female attempted suicides not as important an issue. There's a lot of their logic that I don't think I understand.

BYTEMITE

Friday, May 18, 2012 3:25 PM

Quote:
And what the hell is "genital integrity"??

Circumcision. Which I actually kind of agree with, I think it's a barbaric and outdated practice for both genders. It should only be used as a medical treatment for certain conditions, and not generally used on infants who can't consent to it.

Quote:
I think there are far more women who's husbands or lovers walked out on them and any baby resulting from the union, and skip out on any kind of financial support.

I think that there's a responsibility from both parties towards a child, which sometimes men don't want to take on and they might hide behind arguments like this. But on the other hand, I do think there is something to be argued about fairness in the case where the woman's income far exceeds the guy's income. And there's also cases out there of forcing guys to pay child support when there hasn't been a paternity test, or even when there HAS been a paternity test and they aren't even the father - girls sometimes engage in something called a "baby trap" to that end.

Also obviously, child custody can be unfair for men and women, especially IN the case when women are expected to raise the children on a meager income, but also, some men DO have some interest in being fathers, and they understandably get a little upset when their ex-wife has full custody, the guy only has visitation rights, and the ex-wife moves to another state entirely.

Quote:
I'll take "oppression" of men more seriously...but we're VERY far from that!

You don't have to focus on just one or another. You can't even things up if there ARE pitfalls on the other side of the equation due to restrictive social gender roles. I agree that the way to even things up is to not take away the gains of one gender, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't work for both genders to have gains.

These damn gender role ideas have GOT to GO. You've heard me argue this before. But it's the only way to have a truly equitable society for both groups.