Wouldn't Badger have informed the Alliance....?
POSTED BY: TheSomnambulist
UPDATED: Tuesday, April 10, 2012 11:14
VIEWED: 6182
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I agree with all of this, the last thing Badger wants is to be entangled with the feds, we see in the pilot that he's flying under the radar just like Mal and crew are, so he'd avoid any situations where talking to the Alliance is a factor.
Also I don't think he knows that Simon and River are related, never is he presented with that particular information.
"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya
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I suspect the Operative might have got to Badger first. "Leave no home to run to."
Devout Keeper of Jayne's Lunchbox
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Nah...Mr Badger is too canny for that. He was clearly not on the screens when the Operative did the whole "no ground to go to" speech.
Agree with reasoning above: snitching would be bad for business and he's "a businessman, see, roots in the community". Neither he nor Mal - despite the mutual dislike - would lightly compromise the prospect of future dealings (even if Badger implied that the Alliance might find out about the imprinted bars if Mal hung around Persephone)
That's the assumption I made in the Badger's World audio segments on The Signal podcast.
Season 1 Badger's World:
http://signal.serenityfirefly.com/mmx/series/view.php/82
Season 2 Badger's World:
http://signal.serenityfirefly.com/mmx/series/view.php/101
(All 32 eps for individual download or RSS feed as preferred. Each is about 5 minutes long. And not *entirely* serious :-)
Nick
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Ok.
Sorry to bring this up again, but I was re-watching Serenity last night, and you know what Badger would rat out Mal and co to the feds.
After their meeting with Badger goes bad, and Mal, Zoe and Jayne are walking away; Zoe asks Mal whether he really thinks Badger would sell them out to the feds and Mal replies yes, if he hasn't already, and shoots a glance at two federal soldiers...
Therefore I'm of the opinion that in time, had the show lasted, that Badger would have sold them out.
Now there's a chance that Badger, not being the most absorbent sponge in the ocean, probably would never have worked out that it was River and Simon aboard Serenity, but really it's slight. I think he'd have made the connection.
I'm inclined to ask whether this is not an oversight from Joss and the writers?
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I think Badger could have made the connection after Shindig, if he stumbled on the warrents for River and Simon. He might have tried to use that as leverage, but I don't think he would try and sell the crew out. Badger is likely smart enough to know he's not going to see money from the feds.
I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.
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Quote:
Originally posted by THESOMNAMBULIST:
Ok.
Sorry to bring this up again, but I was re-watching Serenity last night, and you know what Badger would rat out Mal and co to the feds.
After their meeting with Badger goes bad, and Mal, Zoe and Jayne are walking away; Zoe asks Mal whether he really thinks Badger would sell them out to the feds and Mal replies yes, if he hasn't already, and shoots a glance at two federal soldiers...
Because, what, Mal is always correct? Mal always makes the right assumptions?
I'm not sure that this scene says as much about Badger as it does about Mal (and his low opinion of Badger), the crew's desperate situation (I believe this is the same scene where Mal ticks off all the contacts they can't go to, no?), and the need for the writers to cram the maximum amount of information into the pilot.
In this relatively early scene, the writers need to establish peril (the soldiers) and a ticking clock ("We need to unload this stuff before they catch us!" How do they know it's us? "Badger MIGHT have told them!")
This scene confirms that MAL would agree that Badger would sell them out, but, ultimately, nothing more.
Quote:
Therefore I'm of the opinion that in time, had the show lasted, that Badger would have sold them out.
I too am of this mind, although I'm not sure it would have been to the feds unless circumstances were very, very dire. As other folk have point out, snitches get stitches.
More likely, he would sell out Mal to other criminals (which might amount to the same thing for the crew).
In our speculative virtual series at www.stillflying.net, Badger, wanting to be rid of Mal, forms an alliance with Atherton Wing in season two. We also tweaked "Those Left Behind" a little, to make it clear that Badger sells the crew out to Dobson. (In the comic, I believe the vibe is that Badger is part of Dobson's plan, but may just be a pawn.)
Personally, I think an outcome like that, or even pointing bounty hunters at the crew for a share of the cut, is more likely than Badger going to the feds. He's a sad little king of a sad little hill, and it's not in his nature to cross to the other side of the river, even to deliver a message.
On the other hand, if the payday was big enough, if the money was too good... But here, it's not.
Quote:
Now there's a chance that Badger, not being the most absorbent sponge in the ocean, probably would never have worked out that it was River and Simon aboard Serenity, but really it's slight. I think he'd have made the connection.
Interestingly, in the virtual series, we again tweaked "Those Left Behind" to confirm that Badger had put it together. Our reason? It helps up the stakes between Badger and the crew.
Quote:
I'm inclined to ask whether this is not an oversight from Joss and the writers?
I don't think it's an oversight. There are many factors in play. First and foremost, perhaps: Whedon didn't have rights to use Badger for the movie. If he did, we might not have met Mingo & Fanty, and the whole conversation might be different. Also, Badger would be as dead as Mingo & Fanty.
Which is another point to consider. By keeping Badger's relationship dynamic ambiguous, the possibility exists that Badger is still alive, that he survived the Operative's "Order 66" purge. (Not to harp on the virtual series, but we knew we didn't want to kill off Badger like a punk, so we very intentionally deteriorated Badger's relationship with the crew so by the time of the Op's purge, Badger isn't offering safe harbor, and is therefore safe himself.)
Another point to consider: As shows develop, characters evolve. Even if you discount what I noted about about the writing constraints on an early scene in the pilot, the Badger that the writers were writing to in episode 1x01 might have evolved in their minds by later episodes. Although Mal and Badger never trust one another, I do get more of a sense of "We're all criminals and therefore in this together" in later appearances.
I also think t
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A couple of things...
Doesn't the Serenity novel indicate that Fanty and Mingo get questioned by the Operative but released?
Badger never harbored Serenity, so there would be no reason for the Operative to order him killed or even know that Serenity had taken jobs from him. Do we even know where the Operative got his information on who hardors that crew?
I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.
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Quote:
Originally posted by THESOMNAMBULIST:
Sorry to bring this up again, but I was re-watching Serenity last night, and you know what Badger would rat out Mal and co to the feds.
Badger would rat out his grandmother if there was an advantage in it for Badger - but if there was no advantage, why take the effort?
In Serenity, he wanted Mal and his stolen cargo off the planet ASAP. A vague but anonymous tip-off via a proxy would be enough to get the cops swarming around the port and convince Mal of the virtue of a swift departure, without drawing unwanted attention to Badger himself by (e.g.) actually giving the Alliance enough information to catch Mal. Or, it could have just been a threat.
Now, say, Badger figures out that Serenity is the Firefly with the Fugitives (we never found out how many Fireflies are around - we don't see any but the implication is that they're the 'verse equivalent of a VW bug). The only advantage to Badger would be to get the reward - which would mean giving specific details and a return address. As others have pointed out, Badger ain't exactly Mr Brains but he's quite good at Badger conservation and would probably be realistic about the likelihood of living to collect such a reward. He wouldn't see the profit - plus, Mal is occasionally useful to him.
Anyhow's, Badger's all tied up with this cyborg chick and some doll with multiple personalities, then he's got to get this scientist off a treason charge and after that, President Nixon wants to see him about a blue box. Where's the time to be a low-life grass? (Seriously, is Mark Shepard trying to get into every SF franchise? Will there be a Cockney Ferrengi called B'gar in the next Trek movie?)
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I always got the feeling that both Badger and the Captain had similar feelings about dealing with the Alliance, the word I'm looking for is...........Don't.
It is nothing concrete, nothing I could point to, just something that I find implied by his Badger's demeanor and handling of the info. He was pissed that Mal didn't give him the heads up. Mal's thinking is "let's keep this quiet and the deal stays alive. Easy peasy." Mal forgets that sometimes things just don't go smooth. Even Zoe gave Mal a sideways look when Badger revealed the truth about the Alliance markings.
Sure, he's pissed at Mal. But business is business. Badger was out to teach him a lesson, he won the battle, but doesn't want to lose the war (so to speak). Besides, he thinks too much of himself to ever give over control to anyone else. In other words, he likes to think of himself as bigger than the Alliance. He runs Persephone.
I always found it interesting that he ran things there, King of the Underworld andall. Persephone being it's Queen.
SGG
Where does he get all those wonderful toys!
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Badger may not be swift, but he strikes me as the type of bloke who savors his standing in the "community" and knows a thing or two about keeping things quiet. Besides, for Badger, Mal equals cashy money. So much, in point of fact, that he returns to him in Shindig with an 'easy peasy'.
Where would it profit him to turn Mal in, even as a "pillar of the community"? Only one way, a deal with the Fed Mal shot in the eye. No links back to him, as far as the Alliance is concerned. 1) the Fed wouldn't want it to be known he had failed, and rather than go back to face the music he strikes back by making a deal. b) He would have to pay Badger a lot for Mal's whereabouts.....Badger could stand to lose a lot with the deals Mal brings in.
Badger would be in the clear: How? The Fed would go underground (the Alliance does not like failure) if he succeeds.
Or, if Mal wins out, the Fed would be history. It's a win-win!
I'm sure, given the level of security clearence, that the Fed could come up with either money or sensitive intel, or both. But I would tend to think not. As Niska put it, Mal gets the job done. Which gets me thinking, how did Niska hear of Mal's rep? Badger? Maybe?
I'm getting an earful from my wife?
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