"Racism is dead in America." Bullshit
POSTED BY: Niki2
UPDATED: Sunday, August 30, 2026 19:02
VIEWED: 28755
PAGE 13 of 27
Only a fool ignores certain things in life.
The sky is blue, rain is wet, people are judged by many things (their appearance, mannerisms, history of groupings included.)
Whether it is right or wrong is not the point. That things are, as they are, is.
You are upset that someone could be judged by their clothing, their mannerisms, their skin, the way they walk, the way they talk... ok.
Its cute, but it is also like being angry at the sun for being too hot, or the wind for being too cold.
Sharks hump their backs before they attack. We know this because there have been studies done, observations made, and conclusions drawn.
As a diver, if you see a shark humping its back, you can reasonably conclude that it will attack. So you take precaution.
Is this wrong? No, you are protecting yourself, by knowing the signs that signal danger. Humans have long learned to do that, with the natural world and with each other.
Your statement is as intelligent as saying, "You can't judge a shark by the behavior of its species. So what if a shark has teeth that bite, and it shows what is known to be aggressive behavior! Turn you back to it and swim away. Being bitten is better than being cautious and acting in your own self-defense."
You may choose to do that. Others are not so willing.
The difference is that you would have us all turn our backs and take whatever comes. I say, be cautious, act accordingly, and be willing to fight.
This is going to go over the head of a lot, but it still needs to be said.
"Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies"
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Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:
Again.
If you don't want people to think you are a cop, don't dress and act like one.
If you don't want people to think you are a thug (and treat you like one), same thing applies.
Sorry that pisses you off. It doesn't change that its true, however.
We all have our crosses to bear. Being a tall, handsome, white, male... I have had to deal with being thought of as wealthy. Born with a silver spoon and all of it. I wasn't.
But because there is a perception of certain characteristics, culture and the like, you will be judged in the first 10 seconds of someone seeing you.
Its the way of the world. You may not like it, but do grow up.
I agree with all of this except the "grow up" part.
This happens in a lot in threads, where one person approaches a subject from the angle of 'what things should be like' and another person comes at it from the 'how they are' angle. It's not always fair to prejudge but it happens. If you want to you can hope people judge you fairly and openly, but you'd be wise to count on people judging you in a variety of ways and many of them might not be exactly kind or well thought out. All of us are judged every single day, even here.
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Been listening and reading the facts emerging as this goes along. It paints a pretty strange picture, even as to whether he WAS a neighborhood-watch captain, and whether he was "on duty" or just running a personal errand, among other things. So here is what I've gleaned, from numerous sites. I've left out duplicative stuff:Quote:
Mind you, not every neighborhood watch program HAS to be part of this organization.
Now, through a statement released by the National Sheriffs' Association (NSA) -- the parent organization of USAonWatch-Neighborhood Watch -- it has been revealed that Zimmerman was not a member of any group recognized by the organization. Zimmerman violated the central tenets of Neighborhood Watch by following Martin, confronting him and carrying a concealed weapon.
"In no program that I have ever heard of does someone patrol with a gun in their pocket," Carmen Caldwell, the Executive Director of Citizens' Crime Watch of Miami-Dade, told theGrio. "Every city and municipality has their own policies. Here in Miami-Dade we train people only to be the eyes and ears of their communities. Not to follow and most definitely not to carry a weapon."
Despite this, Zimmerman admitted that he had fired a weapon on the night of the incident. In addition, the non-emergency call Zimmerman placed on February 26 before the shooting revealed he had been pursuing Martin by car before accosting the youth on foot -- all direct violations of Neighborhood Watch policies. http://www.thegrio.com/specials/trayvon-martin/zimmerman-not-a-member-
of-recognized-neighborhood-watch-organization.php Quote:
Zimmerman followed another man a year later, saying the man had spit on him. {following someone because they spit on you?}
Zimmerman’s record becomes spottier over the following years as he had a handful of run-ins with the law. In July 2005, Zimmerman was arrested after a tussle with law enforcement outside of a bar near the University of Central Florida. It was a first offense, and Zimmerman got off with a pretrial diversion program.
In August of the same year, a petition for injunction was filed against Zimmerman by a woman who cited domestic violence, and Zimmerman responded with his own petition. Both injunctions were issued.
Despite these scrapes, Zimmerman reportedly wanted to enter law enforcement himself, and was attending Seminole State College, which has a law and public safety program. In 2008, he applied to the Seminole County Sheriff’s Office program for citizen law enforcement.{If he applied, why didn't he follow through? If he followed through, why did he go against every tenant of neighborhood watch?}
It is not clear where Zimmerman was employed at the time of the shooting, but records show that he was working for CarMax for an undetermined period of time before 2008.
On Monday, the Seminole County Sheriff’s Office released recordings of six non-emergency calls in which Zimmerman is heard reporting mundane happenings around his neighborhood. In one of the calls he reports spotting two African-American males who match the description of suspects from a recent robbery. In another, he reports a neighbor’s open garage door.
Others members of the community, including Ibrahim Rashada, told reporters that Zimmerman’s behavior was sometimes unnerving, as when the watchman emailed a description of a suspect to other residents. “I fit the stereotype he emailed around,” Rashada said. After that, Rashada didn’t feel comfortable taking walks around his neighborhood. “I don’t want anyone chasing me,” he said. http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/03/21/george-zimmerman-the-
man-who-shot-trayvon-martin-profiled-by-family-and-neighbors.htmlQuote:
When 28-year-old George Zimmerman was discovered by Sanford, Florida police standing over the body of 17-year-old Trayvon Martin, they accepted Zimmerman's c
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Wulf, you are still stuck in that world of yours where everything is black and white.Quote:
That's a stupid statement. In your world, everyone should dress alike, walk alike and talk alike, or it's THEIR fault if someone attacks them. It's precisely the mentality of "It's her fault she was raped; look at what she's wearing"...which, come to think of it, you probably agree with as well.
You are upset that someone could be judged by their clothing, their mannerisms, their skin, the way they walk, the way they talk... ok.
Its cute, but it is also like being angry at the sun for being too hot, or the wind for being too cold.
What happened to that "libertarian" belief that we should be free to do as we want without anyone forcing us to do what THEY want? Apparently that's interpreted as "look like and do whatever the majority wants, or you have no rights".
In your world, Indian women shouldn't wear saris, Jews shouldn't wear things on their heads, Catholics shouldn't wear crosses, and on and on, because it makes them "different" from the "norm". The fact that people are stereotyped is exactly because of mentalities such as yours. Not everyone sees a Black man wearing a hoodie as someone they should attack because they are different. Some do; too many do; that doesn't mean everyone should give up their rights because others prejudge them.
Actually, it's not even looking like the majority--the VAST majority of people have no problem with people looking differently from them. It's the small MINORITY who pick on the "other". So in your world, we should all be ruled by the minority of bigoted people who won't accept us unless we meet their precise requirements. Not try to change them, not try to widen their horizons, not insist they treat those differently from them with respect, just obey this minority's "laws", in order to survive.
These people aren't the "sun"; they don't have the right to demand we all acquiesce to their stereotypes. The sun is a FACT; racism and prejudice aren't scientific facts, they are aspects of society we MUST somehow eventually minimize to such a degree that people don't get killed because of others' prejudices. Denegrating this by calling it "cute" is indiscribably offensive. It's absolutely amazing for someone who has always professed the attitude you have displayed to say that everyone should bow down to a minority because "that's the way it is". According to you, a woman shouldn't try to assert her rights in any Muslim country; no society should ever evolve; slaves should never have fought for their freedom; people who beat their wives shouldn't be punished by the law because "she should have known better than to piss him off". I'm sure you can't see or understand any of that, but that is how it REALLY is.
I can't even find words to describe how utterly racist and horrible your concept is.
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Quote:
There was no stalking. Zimmerman had the same right as Martin to be in that place.
There was no stalking?? What planet are you living on? Zimmerman said by his own account that he stalked Martin.
Quote:
There was no prohibition for Zimmerman following Martin.
Sure, but if you stalk somebody in the dark they have a right to feel threatened and to protect themselves with force under Florida self-defence laws.
Quote:
What was Martin's justification for hitting Zimmerman?
See above. By the way, I love how you've filled in all the blanks in this case yourself. You've established that it was Martin who attacked Zimmerman have you? Based on what?
It's not personal. It's just war.
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So, black teenagers should stop wearing hoodies. The problem is this: how do gangsters dress? LIKE YOUNG PEOPLE, YOUNG PEOPLE WHO DON'T HAVE A LOT OF MONEY. Was Martin wearing colors, bandanas, anything that would actually distinguish him as a gang member??? Not on your life.
It's not the clothing that makes white folks think "gangster," it's black people in the clothing. Wolf wants black people to dress like Urkle or Bill Cosby so as not to get shot at. This is disgusting. And women who wear a dress that falls more than a hand's width above the knee are asking to be raped. It's the same specious logic. And so, because a significant number of violent bastards in our culture think this way, then their multitudinous potential victims should damn well act accordingly or be branded stupid and "asking for it?"
What in god's name is the readily available, cheap and practical alternative to the hoodie? Something, btw, anyone who shops at Old Navy--a notorious gang supply house--will own. So, okay, it's not racism, it's class and culture war. So, now if it isn't the race of the victim, it's the fact that the victim can't afford a $150 rain jacket from REI.
Pizmo, any argument that proceeds from the premise, "This is HOW things are" can and will be employed by the ruling class to keep the underclass "WHERE they are." It's a logical fallacy, it's an argument from authority (heh). The argument that black teenagers should change the way they dress to avoid getting shot at by random "good citizens" serves no one but those who would rather not be held accountable for their atrocious attacks on black teenagers. It doesn't serve you or me. And it doesn't serve Trayvon Martin's family.
HKCavalier
Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
How can people not, at the very least, have questions about Zimmerman and his story, and the police? I just don't get it; there's so much that is illogical or questionable about how it was handled, I don't understand why people are so determined to defend Zimmerman without even knowing all the facts, and with what facts are available clearly indicating there is something wrong with how it was handled.
I've not seen or heard anyone anywhere defend Zimmerman - someone in this thread?
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Quote:
Your statement is as intelligent as saying, "You can't judge a shark by the behavior of its species. So what if a shark has teeth that bite, and it shows what is known to be aggressive behavior! Turn you back to it and swim away. Being bitten is better than being cautious and acting in your own self-defense."
Hello,
You are wrong. Once again you create a framework for your argument that has no basis on the discussion. Your statement has massive logical fallacies.
Your logic is as follows: Gangsters are violent people who wear hoodies.
Hence: Everyone who wears hoodies is a violent gangster.
Which is not only logically incorrect, but OBSERVABLY incorrect as well. We all know that this same clothing is sold to gangsters and non-gangsters alike. Yet you still claim it is a correct assumption to assume "Person dressed X is obviously a gangster and I have to protect myself from their aggression or crime."
In fact, the problem is twofold. Not only are illogic leaps being made to reach conclusions which are observably false in many instances, but illogical responses are being made based on these illogical leaps. Even if your twisted thinking assigns a twisted identity to someone based on appearance, to then pursue escalation behavior with that person is ludicrous.
The problem isn't perception, it's laziness. This is because while you may have observed gangstas with hoodies, you have also observed non-gangstas with hoodies. But delving deeper is too much work, so it's easier to just slap the label on across the board. Then you excuse the behavior with, "It's just the way things are" thereby absolving yourself of any responsibility to change.
THEN after absolving yourself of such responsibility, YOU ACTUALLY ASSIGN THAT RESPONSIBILITY TO OTHERS!
"They" should change so that you can continue to make your lazy assumptions. "You" can enjoy life the way it is.
Here's the way life really is. "They" aren't all the same. "You" can't be bothered. But you sure want to justify bothering "Them."
--Anthony
_______________________________________________
Note to self: Mr. Raptor believes that women who want to control their reproductive processes are sluts.
Reference thread: http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=18&t=51196
Never forget what this man is. You keep forgiving him his trespasses and speak to him as though he is a reasonable human being. You keep forgetting the things he's advocated. If you respond to this man again, you are being foolish.
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Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
I'm hoping someone can answer this question: if I decide to murder someone, and I have a gun, and I wait till there is no one else around and then shoot that person - can I get away with it as long as I claim self-defense? B/c as long as there are no witnesses to say any different, the police can't really assume it was murder. Right? It seems like that's what it boils down to in this case.
I might try this. Go to Florida or some other US Southern state, hassle some white kid (I'm a black man by the way), acquire a few cuts and bruises, shoot him dead, and then when the police arrive claim self-defence. I'll be released on the spot right?
It's not personal. It's just war.
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Quote:
Originally posted by HKCavalier:
So, black teenagers should stop wearing hoodies. The problem is this: how do gangsters dress? LIKE YOUNG PEOPLE, YOUNG PEOPLE WHO DON'T HAVE A LOT OF MONEY. Was Martin wearing colors, bandanas, anything that would actually distinguish him as a gang member??? Not on your life.
It's not the clothing that makes white folks think "gangster," it's black people in the clothing. Wolf wants black people to dress like Urkle or Bill Cosby so as not to get shot at. This is disgusting. And women who wear a dress that falls more than a hand's width above the knee are asking to be raped. It's the same specious logic. And so, because a significant number of violent bastards in our culture think this way, then their multitudinous potential victims should damn well act accordingly or be branded stupid and "asking for it?"
What in god's name is the readily available, cheap and practical alternative to the hoodie? Something, btw, anyone who shops at Old Navy--a notorious gang supply house--will own. So, okay, it's not racism, it's class and culture war. So, now if it isn't the race of the victim, it's the fact that the victim can't afford a $150 rain jacket from REI.
Pizmo, any argument that proceeds from the premise, "This is HOW things are" can and will be employed by the ruling class to keep the underclass "WHERE they are." It's a logical fallacy, it's an argument from authority (heh). The argument that black teenagers should change the way they dress to avoid getting shot at by random "good citizens" serves no one but those who would rather not be held accountable for their atrocious attacks on black teenagers. It doesn't serve you or me. And it doesn't serve Trayvon Martin's family.
I'm not arguing anyone should change what they wear, but everyone should at the very least understand that the world is full of bad people JUST LIKE ZIMMERMAN, and they will judge you just like he did.
I think we should work every day to make the world more fair and change the attitudes of people like Zimmerman, I don't think we should ever settle, and in the mean time as we improve things let's be smart about how effed that world can be.
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