Real World Event Discussions

"Racism is dead in America." Bullshit

POSTED BY: Niki2
UPDATED: Sunday, August 30, 2026 19:02
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KPO

Wednesday, March 21, 2012 7:00 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by CaveTroll:
KPO,
http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute
&Search_String=&URL=0700-0799/0776/Sections/0776.013.html

Section 3 is the applicable statute.

I erred in referring to it as the Castle law. My apologies. The Florida law is called the "Stand Your Ground" law. If threatened you can use deadly force. Don't like the law? Move to Florida and get it changed.

Thanks for providing the exact law, it states (emphasis mine):

"A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself..."

The application of this law is dubious in this case because:
1) We have every reason to suspect it was Zimmerman who initiated the confrontation, and Martin simply 'stood his ground'.
2) Zimmerman had to reasonably believe he was in danger of death or great bodily harm at the moment that he fired - the facts of the case make this unlikely.

It's not personal. It's just war.

KPO

Wednesday, March 21, 2012 7:12 PM

Quote:
Injuries are substantive proof of assault

CT, it's not 'assault' if it was Trayvon acting in self-defence, which seems to have been the case. Even if Trayvon jumped Zimmerman, HE WAS BEING STALKED - so such an action could reasonably be construed as defensive.

It's not personal. It's just war.

CAVETROLL

Wednesday, March 21, 2012 7:12 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
Yes, Cave; the law is what it is. And what it is says very clearly that the boy had the right not to answer questions of someone following him, AND had the right to protect HIMSELF against a stalker who he felt threatened him. I assume you missed that part, which I posted in detail. Nobody knows who attacked who initially, nobody can say who was on top, etc., just "two men who looked like they were wrestling", so how do we know it wasn't Zimmerman who tackled Travon? We don't.

From ABC's story;
http://abcnews.go.com/US/trayvon-martin-family-seeks-fbi-investigation
-killing/story?id=15949879&page=2#.T2nbKPVCW8A

Quote:

Witnesses told ABC News a fistfight broke out and, at one point, Zimmerman, who outweighed Martin by more than 100 pounds, was on the ground and that Martin was on top.

Quote:

Zimmerman's description of the boy staring at the houses could easily have been (and probably was) his trying to figure out which house he came from; he may not have been there at night, and if it were me, I wouldn't have wanted to knock on just any door in a gated community until I was sure it was the right door. I've heard nothing about him having been drunk or on drugs, so I believe if Zimmerman really thought that (and wasn't just using it as an excuse to pursue), he may have been influenced by his own sense of authority to get the wrong impression.

Never tried to work it out. I'm more than satisfied to let the authorities work it out. But some seem to like the idea of trying this in the court of public opinion, which is where vigilante justice comes from.

From the same article;

Quote:

It may have been an allusion to a statement by a group called the New Black Liberation Militia, which planned to travel to Sanford, Fla., next week to enact a citizen's arrest against Zimmerman and bring him to federal authorities.

Yep, sounds like vigilante justice to me. I wonder if they're going to bring a rope?

Quote:

I'm sorry to see people trying to work this out with what few facts we have, while the usual suspects need to jump to the conclusionthat nobody cares now they know Zimmerman is PARTLY Hispanic. It shows racism on their part, nobody else's, since the tide of opinion has turned due to further information coming out, not the race of the suspect.

Sorry, racism can be called on the OP who outraged when they thought it was a white on black crime. Whatever.

Quote:

I'm sure glad those were COMMENTS, Mike...when I first glanced at it, I thought it was FauxNews commentators saying that, and even for FauxNews, that shocked me. Looking again, I see it was commentators; so, while I only read the first few, none of them would surprise me. We know the portion of the population FauxNews cottons to, so their reaction shouldn't surprise anyone. That there are many, many ugly minds out there which FauxNews encourages we already know all too well.

As to "working up into a lather", I've never felt anything here was important enough for that, sorry to disappoint you. Everything here is just opinion, same as me, so why would any of it be important enough to get upset about? I express my opinions, sometimes my disgust or amusement, then walk away from here and don't think about it again until I return. That you feel people have gotten worked up is your perception; I'm sad it's that important to you.

Yes, Niki. You work up a lather. You hurl epithets. People who don't work up a lather don't get that involved. Riona's recent experiment result shows that you are the 4th worst on the board. And I don't recall you ever apologizing. Denial in the face of evidence is delusional.

Quote:

I'm glad you think his actions were irresponsible, but I say again: The law is quite clear, and to be followed by car and then on foot, and accosted by someone 100 pounds heavier gave the boy the legal

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KPO

Wednesday, March 21, 2012 7:21 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:
Originally posted by Oonjerah:
Cave, this thread already knows that, "Teens set kid on fire for being 'white boy'"

No one really approved of it, I think.
But that kid was clear-headed and saved his own life.

I think only you commented on it.

Was it ignored, because thankfully, no one died, or because it didn't fit the standard template? The one which initially had the story wrong, where it was a WHITE guy who shot the black kid...

"The world is a dangerous place. Not because of the people who are evil; but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein

You cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong. You cannot help the wage earner by pulling down the wage payer. You cannot help the poor by destroying the rich. You cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they could and should do for themselves. - Someone.

Auraptor,

My thoughts on the incident in the article you posted:

1) It's horrific.
2) The incident was probably not as bad as it sounds in that article - the boy was able to save himself by taking off his t-shirt? He can't have been heavily doused in petrol then. Not so much 'boy set on fire' as 'boy's t-shirt set on fire while he was wearing it'. But I'm guessing here.
3) No, it didn't gain widespread traction in the media but wait - neither did the Trayvon Martin case... (until public pressure brought it to attention)
4) I'll bet the police DID arrest the perpetrators and justice was served (at least I hope so), unlike in the Trayvon Martin case - hence less public outcry

It's not personal. It's just war.

CAVETROLL

Wednesday, March 21, 2012 7:22 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by kpo:
Quote:
Originally posted by CaveTroll:
KPO,
http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute
&Search_String=&URL=0700-0799/0776/Sections/0776.013.html

Section 3 is the applicable statute.

I erred in referring to it as the Castle law. My apologies. The Florida law is called the "Stand Your Ground" law. If threatened you can use deadly force. Don't like the law? Move to Florida and get it changed.

Thanks for providing the exact law, it states (emphasis mine):

"A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself..."

The application of this law is dubious in this case because:
1) We have every reason to suspect it was Zimmerman who initiated the confrontation, and Martin simply 'stood his ground'.
2) Zimmerman had to reasonably believe he was in danger of death or great bodily harm at the moment that he fired - the facts of the case make this unlikely.

KPO,
See the link in my reply to Niki above. There's an eyewitness who saw Martin on top of Zimmerman. If you are down on the ground with someone on top of you, you can be beaten to unconsciousness. What happens after you're out, well, a prudent man wouldn't want to find out. If Zimmerman had pursued and then shot Martin it would be murder. Zimmerman pursued. He had as much right as Martin to be there. The dispatch operators advice had no force of law. Once Martin started hitting Zimmerman he opened the door for Zimmerman to defend.

KPO

Wednesday, March 21, 2012 7:36 PM

CT, if Zimmerman shot Martin at that exact moment in their fight, then I would say you have a case. But that does not appear to be what happened: Zimmerman doesn't claim this in his statement, and nor does this fit with what can be heard on the tapes (a man's voice calling for help, silenced by gunshots).

It's not personal. It's just war.

WULFENSTAR

Wednesday, March 21, 2012 7:57 PM

If people were smart, they would use this as a way to talk about the real issues.

But no... we are subjected to the same old B.S.

"Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies"

OONJERAH

Wednesday, March 21, 2012 9:22 PM

*I imagine if I were lathered, my eyes would be wider.*

"Sponsors of Florida ‘Stand Your Ground’ law say George Zimmerman should be arrested"
:> http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/trayvon-martin-case-sponsors-
florida-stand-ground-law-george-zimmerman-arrested-article-1.1048164

"The guy lost his defense right then," Peaden told the Herald.
"When he said, 'I'm following him,' he lost his defense."

AURAPTOR

Wednesday, March 21, 2012 10:15 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by kpo:
Auraptor,

My thoughts on the incident in the article you posted:

1) It's horrific.
2) The incident was probably not as bad as it sounds in that article - the boy was able to save himself by taking off his t-shirt? He can't have been heavily doused in petrol then. Not so much 'boy set on fire' as 'boy's t-shirt set on fire while he was wearing it'. But I'm guessing here.
3) No, it didn't gain widespread traction in the media but wait - neither did the Trayvon Martin case... (until public pressure brought it to attention)
4) I'll bet the police DID arrest the perpetrators and justice was served (at least I hope so), unlike in the Trayvon Martin case - hence less public outcry

My intent was to show that , yes, racism exists, but it's not a 1 way street.

Also, in no way did I mean to suggest this was an apples to apples comparison, as the victim in Kansas City survived, and with only minor injuries. ( And this was because of quick thinking on HIS part, not because the attackers weren't capable enough, or didn't really MEAN to burn him alive )

And about that...and your 2nd point. THEY TRIED TO BURN HIM. What part of that do you see as " not as bad as it sounds " ? To me, this shows so much more malice and hatred aforethought, than what may or may not have gone down in FL. The punks intended to give the white boy what he deserved, the justice he was due, as they saw it in their eyes. Maybe the guy was a dick. Maybe he wasn't down with them, and some how 'dissed' them, who knows ? But burning folks alive ? Sorry to segue to a Jayne like tone, but where's THAT get fun?

"The world is a dangerous place. Not because of the people who are evil; but because of the people who don't do anything about it." - Albert Einstein

You cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong. You cannot help the wage earner by pulling down the wage payer. You cannot help the poor by destroying the rich. You cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they could and should do for themselves. - Someone.

KWICKO

Wednesday, March 21, 2012 11:14 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

CT - some folks just work with their prejudiced template, and anyone who colors outside of the lines, or suggests a different view, is to be mocked and ridiculed.

Especially here, of all places.

Especially by you, of all people.

Everyone should know that by now.