Wow - North Korea agrees to suspend nuclear weapons tests and uranium enrichment

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6IXSTRINGJACK

Sunday, March 11, 2012 1:44 AM

Hey Anthony,

I'm just curious.... When do they become the bad guy? Only after they've followed through on the plans that have been cultivated in their empty, brainwashed heads?

Minority Report (the short story and the movie) scared the shit out of me, and I'm 100% against a pre-crime division of government, and feel just as strong about the increasing amount of survalaince we're put under every day, usually for "the good of the children" or because "terrorists are out there".

That's not what this is about for me. I don't automatically assume because somebody has a skin tone between Irish and Ethiopia that they are packing nukes. Except for the ANIMALS who actually followed through on their plans and are now dead for it, this is all speaking in theoreticals about those we both know are out there waiting for the GO.

The only sci-fi movie that REALLY scared me as a kid was Aliens. Not only because the special effects were so brilliant at a time long before CGI that they still look great today, but more importantly, because unlike your usual Nemesis, these Aliens were willing to do anything to kill until their final breath escaped their lips. They had no problem clawing over their own brethren, leaking their acidic blood all over each other just to get the thrill of another kill.

At that time, I was old enough to remember Reagan demanding that Gorbachev tear down that wall. A few years later, I was an avid Bulls fan and was so vicariously involved in every playoff game Michael Jordan played against the Knicks that I would actually be depressed all next day if Patrick Ewing and crew thwarted them.

These were battles I grew up with, before the Middle East changed everything. Back then, there were codes of conduct during battle. I'm sure that there have always been personal liberties taken here and there on occasion, even with the crazies living with otherwise civilized people, but in the end, I believe that every enemy we have ever fought respected us as much as we respected them.

That's the big difference here. If you threw away the enemies ability to send mindless shells of people in a subway or plane with a bomb that will kill them for their God, and I have ABSOLUTELY NO RESPECT FOR OUR ENEMY.

Right or wrong, what the Japanese did to Pearl Harbor was not even in the same ballpark as 9/11. What we did in retaliation, considering the outcome and the brevity of the war thereafter was not either. Hell... even the reason that Anne Frank had to hide in the attic wasn't. It may have been for Evil and undoubtedly misguided reasons, but at least it was backed by a people who just wanted to live a better life and be able to have the means of supporting their family. The Germans didn't have a pot to piss in at the time. As evil as the Nazis were, you didn't see any of them willing to play by unfair rules and nuke themselves to take out hundreds or thousands of the enemy because they "KNEW" that countless virgins awaited them in "Heaven".

(The fact that gas will be hitting 5 bucks a gallon and half of our country is making minimum wage isn't lost on me here. It's a scary thought....)

Again, I state, that these were once people. In their current condition, they are no longer people. I didn't throw a label at them. I didn't dehumanize them. They were like that long before I even said anything. The only reason that I feel sorry for them is that they grew up in a shithole of a place like most of the Middle East that becoming what they are was even a mildly appealing option. I couldn't even fathom how bad things must be there if the weakest willed of their race can so easily be manipulated into doing such horrors to themselves and others that only an ANIMAL WITHOUT A CONSCIENCE is capable of.

It's not as if every Middle Easterner is walking around with a bomb for God, stateside or in their homeland. All of the normal people who happen to be Muslim have grown up in that same shitty world to some greater or lesser extent.

Whether they have o

ANTHONYT

Sunday, March 11, 2012 6:17 AM

Quote:
Right or wrong, what the Japanese did to Pearl Harbor was not even in the same ballpark as 9/11. What we did in retaliation, considering the outcome and the brevity of the war thereafter was not either. Hell... even the reason that Anne Frank had to hide in the attic wasn't. It may have been for Evil and undoubtedly misguided reasons, but at least it was backed by a people who just wanted to live a better life and be able to have the means of supporting their family. The Germans didn't have a pot to piss in at the time. As evil as the Nazis were, you didn't see any of them willing to play by unfair rules and nuke themselves to take out hundreds or thousands of the enemy because they "KNEW" that countless virgins awaited them in "Heaven".

Hello,

We simply have no common ground to work with. When you say things like this, it disturbs me.

I almost can't believe you aren't messing around.

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

Note to self: Mr. Raptor believes that women who want to control their reproductive processes are sluts.

Reference thread: http://fireflyfans.net/mthread.asp?b=18&t=51196

Never forget what this man is. You keep forgiving him his trespasses and speak to him as though he is a reasonable human being. You keep forgetting the things he's advocated. If you respond to this man again, you are being foolish.

OONJERAH

Sunday, March 11, 2012 5:44 PM

Quote Oonjerah: "Arab lands: their economies are undeveloped, except for oil. The land could be
reclaimed if those fat sheiks would just say the word, & buy a little equipment. Watching that
sort of mismanagement is extremely frustrating."

OK. I may owe the sheiks an apology.

(1958) "President Eisenhower, in an internal discussion, observed to his staff, and I’m quoting now,
"There’s a campaign of hatred against us in the Middle East, not by governments, but by the people."
The National Security Council discussed that question and said, "Yes, and the reason is, there’s a
perception in that region that the United States is supporting harsh and brutal and corrupt regimes
and is blocking democratization and development and is doing so because of our interest in controlling
the oil reserves of the region. And they said, it’s difficult to counter this perception, because it’s
accurate. It should be accurate. It is natural for us to support status quo governments because we
want to maintain control ..."
— Noam Chomsky

"There is a good way to stop terrorism. Stop participating in it."
— Noam Chomsky

6IXSTRINGJACK

Monday, March 12, 2012 1:14 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Hello,

We simply have no common ground to work with. When you say things like this, it disturbs me.

I almost can't believe you aren't messing around.

--Anthony

It is disturbing. Good for you.

It doesn't mean that it's not true though.

I hope we never get to that point in our own lives. 1984 is my favorite book, and it's also the scariest thing I've ever mulled over again and again in my mind since the day I read it. Many days, I wish I never had even heard about it.

The 1984 scenario didn't happen overnight.

It was decades of life getting worse. And even though most were programmed to believe they lived in the best available world, they were continually subject to losing more personal liberties practically every time you turned the page.

Personally, I'm afraid of that happening to America if things keep going down the same "Bush Jr./Obama" path we've been headed down since 2000.

Right now, we have the illusion that everything is still okay because crime is relatively low. Once China cuts off our credit line and our politicians can't afford to do anything they promise, we're going to be living in a much different America than we've all been happily digging a grave for while spending more than we could afford (on a personal, on a city-wide, on a county-wide, on a state-wide, and on a national scale) for decades now.

Good luck to you when that day comes Anthony.

On that day, the world can see just how many Christians can just as easily be turned into animals under the right circumstances. I'm no better than anyone else inherently just because I'm a white American. I do fear the day that my own resolve will be put to the test. And if I fail, then I am an animal.

I've got my fire-arms and a healthy supply of consumables that I continually rotate if that day ever comes in my lifetime.

That will only give me a few precious months to ride out the rough stuff while answering to nobody though. If it goes on forever after that point, how long until I fall in line?

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." ~Shepherd Book

RIONAEIRE

Monday, March 12, 2012 6:59 PM

A Jack a chara,

I'm not going to deny that I agree with some of the stuff you're saying, they are programmed and brainwashed and the reason they're so susceptable is because their lives suck brick and the higher ups know which strings to pull, and if they lived in a society that was different then its likely less of them would choose to get weird and radical like that. I just don't think your wording is helping people to see where you're coming from. Sure you can say that they are acting in an animalistic fashion when they kill all around them to get what they want in the form of wild sex in Heaven (sex for girls hurts the first time though, so they really won't have as much fun with those virgins as they think they will.). But when you're presenting a point wording matters a lot, it is the single thing that can tip the scale from people understanding where you're coming from to people totally turning off and not being into what you're saying and thinking you're too extreme. No one expects you to be a brilliant negotiator, but certain word choices will turn your crowd off faster than a lightswitch and calling people animals is one of those word choices, even if you feel they're acting like animals in their behavior, you can just say it like that.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

OONJERAH

Monday, March 12, 2012 8:19 PM

Quote FremdFirma: "animals is too kind a word for em, besides being yanno, an insult to the animal kingdom."

I like animals, too ... and I respect them.
Animals : Terrorists. I totally fail to get the resemblance.

ETA: I am a slow reader. I tend to skip very long posts or rants.

1KIKI

Monday, March 12, 2012 8:55 PM

So anyway, back to NK - and Iran.

Iran I get. They certainly have enough 'stuff' for a dirty bomb, if they wanted to set one off they would have done so by now. And I'm reasonably sure that they've done the nuclear calculation that goes: launch a nuclear missile and we WILL be slagged many times over. I don't see them as a threat, even IF they get a bomb, or several. It's pretty obviously a deterrence against Israel, one that will make an Israeli attack against them sufficiently painful that Israel would think twice.

NK is harder to gage. As extreme a position they have adopted it's far harder to intuit their calculation. Maybe they will, maybe they won't.

I would like to point out that NK doesn't ALWAYS continue underground and 'Geezer' is simply wrong. The last time they agreed to halt their nuclear program, they were under IAEA watch, with seals on the equipment, intrusive inspections, and round-the-clock video monitoring of their nuclear facilities. In fact, it was quite a big deal when they backed out of the agreement, disabled the monitoring and broke the seals.

I think the effectiveness of the agreement is dependent on the conditions attached.

1KIKI

Monday, March 12, 2012 9:31 PM

Here's a potential NK calculation that makes it perfectly logical to still pursue nuclear arms but enter into an effective (but temporary) agreement:

1) put active nucler development on hold - nuclear bomb not going so well, we need to go back to the drawing board and re-do our calculations and engineering;

2) obtain food aid at a time when we were going to shelve our active work anyway;

3) stop participating in the food-aid/ nuclear halt program when we have the bomb's bugs worked out.

6IXSTRINGJACK

Wednesday, March 14, 2012 2:13 AM

I guess they're just acting like animals then...

To me, the difference is tomato; tomato....

Hell... it's not as if anybody I've known or loved has felt the wrath of one of their pawns personally. Maybe they are just "acting" like animals.

I can't say one way or another.

Maybe the RWED would benefit here from hearing from a person who has lost a loved one from one of these mindles proles carrying out their duty.

On a side note, I hardly think that somebody capable of carrying out a suicide mission that could take up to thousands of "heathens" is concerned for even a micro-second of how uncomfortable sex with his 76 virgins would be. Afterall, they're not going to be virgins after he gets through with them and there are only 76 to go through for eternity.

Quote:
Originally posted by RionaEire:
A Jack a chara,

I'm not going to deny that I agree with some of the stuff you're saying, they are programmed and brainwashed and the reason they're so susceptable is because their lives suck brick and the higher ups know which strings to pull, and if they lived in a society that was different then its likely less of them would choose to get weird and radical like that. I just don't think your wording is helping people to see where you're coming from. Sure you can say that they are acting in an animalistic fashion when they kill all around them to get what they want in the form of wild sex in Heaven (sex for girls hurts the first time though, so they really won't have as much fun with those virgins as they think they will.). But when you're presenting a point wording matters a lot, it is the single thing that can tip the scale from people understanding where you're coming from to people totally turning off and not being into what you're saying and thinking you're too extreme. No one expects you to be a brilliant negotiator, but certain word choices will turn your crowd off faster than a lightswitch and calling people animals is one of those word choices, even if you feel they're acting like animals in their behavior, you can just say it like that.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." ~Shepherd Book

KWICKO

Wednesday, March 14, 2012 4:08 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
What's your answer Kwicko?

I think a good plan of Terraforming has been laid out here.

I'm all about a reduction in military force and imperialism.

What do you think should be done?

How about letting them figure out their own problems?

Has that ever occurred to you, you who claim to not want government breathing down your neck? Why are you so quick to send it stomping on the necks of others?

You're no different than Wulfie or Rappy, Jack. You don't give a god damn about "freedom" - you only want the boot off YOUR neck, and you'll happily sell out anyone and everyone else to make that happen.

How would you go about all this "terraforming"? Be specific. Get really deep into the details, if you can.

I point out Dubai because they are actually taking strides to DO SOMETHING. They are "terraforming", if you'd call it that, reshaping their land to something it's never been, explicitly because they know the oil is going to run out, and they need a post-petrochemical economy already set up and running before that happens.

Say what you will, but they're thinking much further ahead than you are on these matters, not that you'd ever show even an ounce of grudging respect for those you call "sub-human" and "animals", despite the fact that nobody from Dubai was any part of the 9/11 attacks (neither were any Iraqis or Afghans, but don't let that stop your hatred, either. I know how much disdain you have for facts that are inconvenient to your worldview!)

"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill

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