7 in 10 U.S. Protestant pastors reject evolution
POSTED BY: SignyM
UPDATED: Wednesday, October 2, 2024 16:34
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Yeah
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Quote:I do. So it is possible.
Originally posted by Magonsdaughter:
Is it not possible to believe in a God and understand and accept the theory of evolution?
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I love, therefore I am.
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Quote:I don't think you're being quite fair, CTS. Perhaps to Raptor, but not in principle.
Originally posted by canttakesky:Quote:LOL. Pot, meet kettle.
Originally posted by AURaptor:
I believe you're right.
We are all believers. We just believe different things.
We are not all believers. Some of us are too much in the habit of mindfullness to believe anything too strongly or for too long without solid proof (anecdotal as it may be), and even then we drink deep of self-scrutiny on a semi-anual basis to weed out the nonsense. If you're saying that we all hold irrational beliefs even in spite of such introspection, then what you're saying is unkind (and it would also be a belief of yours in want of proof).
Throwing one's self whole-heartedly behind some notion or other, without self-examination or in acknowledgement of ambivolence is at best childish. When a whole nation takes hold of something as profoundly hostile to reason as Biblical infalability, then, yeah, "sheep" is prolly the nicest characterization I can think of.
HKCavalier
Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.
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I was unaware that the role of the President was to promote current and cutting edge views on science.
Where is that in the Constitution again ?
To Niki's point, I really don't see the need that a President holds my exact same view on matters of evolution. The odds that Newt's view, for example, that both magical bible creation and the mechanics of evolution can both be true, will have any meaningful effect on how he runs the country, is negligible. Many old Earth, evolution understanding ( evolution isn't a 'belief', btw ) scientist also believe in God™.
" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "
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Quote:No, not irrational beliefs. We all have values we believe in, despite evidence to the contrary. People marry, despite statistical evidence that they are likely to divorce later. People vote, despite evidence that politicians don't carry out their promises. It is not irrationality. It is hope.
Originally posted by HKCavalier:
If you're saying that we all hold irrational beliefs even in spite of such introspection,....
Evolution is a theory. Nobody has ever witnessed evolution occurring. Like, all theories in science, evolution is simply a model that best explains the evidence we have. But evolution has become more than a scientific theory that connects the dots amongst fossils.
Evolution has become a philosophy of the intentions of the Universe, a blueprint for what is natural and unnatural, a map for where humankind ought to be headed. It is, if you will, the closest thing to a "god" that atheists have.
There are plenty of intelligent, articulate, and highly educated fundies. At heart, it is not a matter of choosing a literal interpretation of the Bible over scientific theory.
It is a matter of rejecting Evolution, the "god."
That is what I meant by we all are believers. We all believe in some value, some hope, some unifying explanation that guides our morals and purpose. For them, it is the God of Abraham. For others, it is Evolution.
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I love, therefore I am.
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It seems inevitable that any potential US president must be seen as being Christian to the core, hence the discussion of evolution, especially when you have a big swag of voters who see evolution as being a threat to their religious beliefs.
Can you imagine a time when there might be an atheist president? Or no discussion of religion at all. I don't believe that the religious views of leaders are discussed in other parts of the world to the same degree, if at all.
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Quote:
Originally posted by canttakesky:Quote:No, not irrational beliefs. We all have values we believe in, despite evidence to the contrary. People marry, despite statistical evidence that they are likely to divorce later. People vote, despite evidence that politicians don't carry out their promises. It is not irrationality. It is hope.
Originally posted by HKCavalier:
If you're saying that we all hold irrational beliefs even in spite of such introspection,....
Evolution is a theory. Nobody has ever witnessed evolution occurring. Like, all theories in science, evolution is simply a model that best explains the evidence we have. But evolution has become more than a scientific theory that connects the dots amongst fossils.
Evolution has become a philosophy of the intentions of the Universe, a blueprint for what is natural and unnatural, a map for where humankind ought to be headed. It is, if you will, the closest thing to a "god" that atheists have.
There are plenty of intelligent, articulate, and highly educated fundies. At heart, it is not a matter of choosing a literal interpretation of the Bible over scientific theory.
It is a matter of rejecting Evolution, the "god."
That is what I meant by we all are believers. We all believe in some value, some hope, some unifying explanation that guides our morals and purpose. For them, it is the God of Abraham. For others, it is Evolution.
There is a flaw in your argument. Evolution is not a belief, it is a scientific theory based upon evidence. There is no longer any controversy around the issue that around this fundamental theory in scientific communities, the idea that all life forms have evolved.
Religion is belief based upon faith, and is not able to be countered by evidence. There is no evidence that a god exists, yet people continue to believe in god because of their faith. Faith, by its very nature, requires one to believe the impossible.
The two things are very different.
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Quote:
It is, if you will, the closest thing to a "god" that atheists have.
I'm atheist, and last time I checked I don't pray to natural selection or monkey.
Chthulu, on the other hand...
Quote:
We all believe in some value, some hope, some unifying explanation that guides our morals and purpose.
Eh. Hope and values and morals and purpose... The only fundamental thing I've seen all life has in common, the only end destination I can observe, is that all life dies. It only matters to the still living just how that happens, and sometimes not even then.
The impacts made in the course of that journey sometimes are statistically measurable though, at least relative to this world.
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Quote:
It is, if you will, the closest thing to a "god" that atheists have.
Sorry CTS. For me, that position is already filled.
" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "
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Remember the thread on whether or not universal and innate morality exists?
What did most of us use to justify and explain our positions on existence or non-existence of such morality?
Evolution.
Evolution the "god" is not about someone we pray to. It is about a unifying explanation that guides our purpose, morals, hopes, and philosophical understanding of the universe. This is the part that is in direct competition with the God of Abraham.
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I love, therefore I am.
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