Real World Event Discussions

7 in 10 U.S. Protestant pastors reject evolution

POSTED BY: SignyM
UPDATED: Wednesday, October 2, 2024 16:34
VIEWED: 9190
PAGE 6 of 9

DREAMTROVE

Friday, January 13, 2012 2:15 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
Mimivirus, am I right?

Mimivirus?

Magon,

But faith *is* policy. It's a problem when they try to push their rules on people who aren't members of their religion. But then again, is that what socialism is all about? And they're not alone, zionists have been doing it for a century at least, and christians before that.

Faith should be policy, but only for those who willingly join that faith. It should not be mandated for a piece of land.

That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

BYTEMITE

Friday, January 13, 2012 2:23 AM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mimivirus

FREMDFIRMA

Friday, January 13, 2012 3:05 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
Malachite is definitely on to something here. Evolution wouldn't be seen as a threat if it were not being used to bludgeon religion.

Maybe religion needs a little friggin bludgeoning.

I don't really care what someone BELIEVES, never did, I care what they DO, and when what they do involves trying to shove what they believe down my throat with a fucking bayonet I get a bit pissy about it - whether they do it themselves or by the proxy of manipulating the government and it's bayonets into doing it for them.

Man, you think I'm a little hostile to the religious now... back when I was little and every act of abuse, violence, hypocrisy and horror I saw came at the hands of those in good aroma with the christian faith, THEN topped by a PUBLIC schools attempt to *force* me to utter the McCarthyist pledge of allegience - when I hate, hate, hated "Their God" as only a wounded child can hate, a hatred so pure it blinded me for many years to those who weren't complete monsters within that faith.

And then I run into shit like Blue Laws, or other manipulations of the Government and Society we live under which serve to support and advance the cause of a single religion whether I believe it or not, whether I care for it or not, even if I believe it to be a foul, vile and inhumane subjugation of humanity... FORCED to play along with it by the threat of Governments gunbarrels.

And here we are again, what with the damn christofascists wanting to ram their beliefs down someone elses throat, manipulate the system to espouse and support their FAILED and useless belief which cannot abide competition since it seems any competition at all causes those trapped within it to flee in droves, to victimize people with no recourse against it, sponsoring it's ignorance, it's malice, with my tax dime.

Not on your life.

Oddly enough, imma fairly tolerant person in such regard, right up to the moment someone tries to force their beliefs upon another - at which point I would gladly roast them alive and toast mashmallows on the flames with glee.

See, it's a two way street - you wanna push yours on me, I'll push back, you leave me be, I leave you be... but when you wanna force your toxic theology upon others, you get no consideration from me about it.

None whatever.

-Frem

I do not serve the Blind God.

SIGNYM

Friday, January 13, 2012 3:22 AM

Quote:
"Actually, it is..." - what, your OPINION that a President needs to be in concordance with your personal views on all matters, including science ? Fine, but that's not what I asked.

No I clarified it by saying... just a sentence or so afterwards... that what I want is President who is grounded in reality, who is able to accept evidence even if... no, especially if... it contradicts his or her world-view.

Quote:
Per the issue of 'wars', I'm assuming you mean Iraq. A quick survey of quotes from the Clinton era and then the Bush era politicians will show that first Dems, and then Republicans both said nearly EXACTLY the same things, w/ regard to evidence of Saddam's WMD program. Funny thing is, it was the Dems who were rattling the sabres when their guy was office, and even after, only to eventually flip on the matter.

You see, rappy, by the the evidence had changed. There was "ground truth" with Hans Blix and his nosy minions poking aggressively into every corner that the CIA told them to look, and finding nothing. I know we've been over this before. The evidence is over 5 years old by now, and has been repeated at least five or six times to you, specifically. Either refute it or accept it, but try to remember it for next time, so we don't keep getting stuck in defunct arguments, OK?

Quote:
And read what I said again. I never said that evolution was 'cutting edge'. In fact, I specifically said CURRENT and cutting edge, to distinguish between more established topics ( like evolution )and other matters, say like string theory . Perhaps I could have made the distinction more clear, but the point I was trying to make is, the realm of science isn't, nor should be, a role for the President to concern himself with all that much. Policy, say like putting a man on the moon, sure, but that doesn't mean HE /SHE has to actually be a rocket scientist to take the oath of office.

I get your point; thanks for the clarification. But it might be helpful, though, if our politicians were more than lawyers. Just as we require more technical literacy of our workers, shouldn't we require more technical literacy of our politicians?

Quote:
Now, if a sitting President declares that all ships must stay with in sight of US shores, for fear they may venture too far out and fall off the edge of the Earth, then yeah, we've got a big problem there.

Indeed!

MAGONSDAUGHTER

Friday, January 13, 2012 3:27 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:

Magon,

But faith *is* policy.

Que? DOn't follow you.

Policy should be based upon facts and evidence, not 'these are my religious beliefs, and everyone should adhere no matter how wacky'
Quote:
But then again, is that what socialism is all about?

Horse. Dead. Flogging. Why?

Quote:
Faith should be policy, but only for those who willingly join that faith. It should not be mandated for a piece of land.

Faith should be for the individual and have nothing to do with policy.

That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

AURAPTOR

Friday, January 13, 2012 3:59 AM

Quote:
There was "ground truth" with Hans Blix and his nosy minions poking aggressively into every corner that the CIA told them to look, and finding nothing.

But this wasn't at all what was going on. Iraq had the burden of proof to show where the KNOWN WMD they admitted they had, was, or if it had been destroyed, where that was done, show how it was done, and what came of it all. They failed to do much of any of that. Hans and Co. weren't suppose to traipse around Iraq, hither and yon, on some country wide Easter egg hunt. Iraq was suppose to present to them with what they had, and year after year, Saddam stalled, delayed and would not 'play along'. We know now that some of this was all a bluster, by Saddam, to make this neighbors think his WMD program was much more than it was. But even so, he still had some WMD or components he wasn't suppose to have, and it cost him dearly.

" I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend. "

DREAMTROVE

Friday, January 13, 2012 5:00 AM

Frem,

You're missing the point. The attacker is also a religion. this is a religious war. The religion that lives in academia is a different offshoot of the same lunacy, it's just more intelligent in its design so it learns to replace its creation myth with one that sounds like science, and so forth. This ain't a case of the truth attacking ignorant loons, it's a case of conflicting world view. Don't matter if you think all of 'em are wrong, that's just people for you, they're bound to be wrong.

And it ain't the blue laws that scare me.

Magon,

Quote:
Policy should be based upon facts and evidence

It never is.

Quote:
Horse. Dead. Flogging. Why?

Socialism is a religion.

That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

SIGNYM

Friday, January 13, 2012 5:26 AM

Quote:
But this wasn't at all what was going on. Iraq had the burden of proof to show where the KNOWN WMD they admitted they had, was, or if it had been destroyed, where that was done, show how it was done...

RAPPY- Hans Blix concluded that the "missing" WMD were missing because of recordkeeping lapses. The WMD were destroyed or abandoned with such haste in late 1980's that their destruction was not recorded.

Also, you have to remember that the Bush administration was not ONLY claiming that Saddam had unaccounted WMD from the 1980s. That wouldn't have been an existential threat to the USA and certainly not warranted a full-scale invasion. But as the UNMOVIC team drew nearer and nearer to their conclusion, the administration ramped up its claims. Colin Powell put up phoney pictures of WMD production facilities for a very unimpressed UN, and Rumsfeld was certain that the Iraqis had deployed WMD to the east, north and south somewhat of Bagdhad.

While Hans Blix was roaming Iraq???

Silly stuff, really. It would be impossible to hide a WMD production program which was large enough to threaten the USA at the same time that Hans Blix was poking his nose into every corner of Iraq, including Saddam's palaces. There was a real disconnect from reality.

DREAMTROVE

Friday, January 13, 2012 1:49 PM

Does it really matter?

Saddam Hussein destroyed his mass stores of WMDs in 1991, for fear that they would be discovered. He was, alas, a little weak. Someone should have told him this...

That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

SIGNYM

Friday, January 13, 2012 2:55 PM

Does it matter??

Not anymore, I guess. (sigh) Iraq was invaded, hundreds of thousands of Iraqis and thousands of US troops were killed, trillions of US dollars were spent and tens of thousands of US soldiers were maimed, and Iran gained a toehold in the resulting power vacuum.

But it certainly is a good example of what happens when people... the President and the population... don't pay attention to evidence. Because reality wins in the end, no matter WHAT anyone "believes". Didn't we all learn anything when we jumped off the chair/ doghouse/ garage roof because we believed we could fly? In any case, this wasn't my main point, but this thread, like all threads, is going to include a few diversions here and there.