The President's Plan for Economic Growth and Deficit Reduction
POSTED BY: Geezer
UPDATED: Thursday, April 3, 2025 11:52
VIEWED: 2971
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http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/omb/budget/fy2012/assets
/jointcommitteereport.pdf
Includes the American Jobs Act, Mandatory Savings, Health Savings, and Tax Reform.
Tax Reform seems the most discussed. Here are the basics.
-Drop the Bush tax cuts.
-Limit Itemized Deductions to 28% for families with income of $250,000 or greater.
-Tax Partnership income as ordinary income.
-Close business loopholes.
"Keep the Shiny side up"
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I would also put capital gains tax on the same footing as ordinary income, and tax people on their "revenues" (net income), just like business is currently taxed.
As an aside, people often say that "the wealthy" and business already pay their "fair share" of taxes. If they knew the basics of investment and business tax rules, there would be no discussion about how bad business has it. First of all, businesses are taxed on whatever is left after expenses. That would be as if households were only taxed on their savings. Then, business gets to depreciate any of their physical assets. And that's not even counting the specific tax loopholes that businesses enjoy.
My reasoning is that if businesses are also people, they should be taxed like people. And, if they commit a serious crime, the business should be put to death.
But so far, the tax proposals look like a good start.
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Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
My reasoning is that if businesses are also people, they should be taxed like people.
They are. Businesses are taxed pretty much like any self-employed individual. They subtract expenses from gross income to arrive at taxable income. See an IRS Schedule C or Schedule F for the kinds of expenses they can deduct.
http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f1040sc.pdf
http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f1040sf.pdf
"Keep the Shiny side up"
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No, Geezer, if businesses are also people ... with privacy rights, and "free speech" ... they should be taxed like ordinary wage earners, who are (in effect) the smallest of all subcontracting units.
Think about it: MY "business asset"... my production machine... is myself. I have to maintain my machine,.. I have to fuel it and protect it and keep it in good repair, even upgrade it with new software from time to time, otherwise my small business doesn't go forward.
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Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
No, Geezer, if businesses are also people ... with privacy rights, and "free speech" ... they should be taxed like ordinary wage earners, who are (in effect) the smallest of all subcontracting units.
No, SignyM. If you want to compare businesses with individuals, compare them with the individuals with whom they have the most in common; the self-employed folks who have to risk their capital in equipment and expenses in the hope of enough return to make a profit.
Or, if you really want to destroy the country, tax both businesses and the self-employed on their gross income.
"Keep the Shiny side up"
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That doesn't work, Geezer. If corporations are "people", you can only compare corporate taxes to those of the BUSINESS the small-business owner runs, not the individual themselves, because if corporations are "individuals", so are small businesses.
Individuals AND actual small businesses (bearing in mind that "small business" can be made to include many, many HUGE businesses...like the Koch Brothers...by how they're defined) don't have the access to all (or even many) of the tax loopholes corporations do, the money to hire expensive accountants who know their way around the tax code or the lawyers to tell them what they can get away with.
There is actually no comparison whatsoever. Corporations have access to myriad tax-saving resources that ACTUAL individuals do not. And they take advantage of every single one of them, ergo what the tax code SAYS is their taxable percentage bears little resemblance to the percentage they ACTUALLY pay.
Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off 
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Quote:
Originally posted by Niki2:
That doesn't work, Geezer. If corporations are "people", you can only compare corporate taxes to those of the BUSINESS the small-business owner runs, not the individual themselves, because if corporations are "individuals", so are small businesses.
SignyM is comparing corporations to individuals, not small businesses. The closest individuals to corporations, from a tax treatment standpoint, are the self-employed.
Both corporate "people" (to use your and SignyM's conceit) and self-employed people follow pretty much the same rules in computing gross income, allowable expenses, and taxable net income. Seems the most reasonable comparison of corporations and individuals, unless you're trying to confuse the situation.
Also, both corporations and self-employed individuals, along with pretty much everyone else, uses all facilities available to them to pay as little income tax, or get back as much refundable credit, as possible.
"Keep the Shiny side up"
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Geezer: The comparison of corporations to people is not "my" conceit, it is that of the right-wing.
If corporations are people, according to Mtt Romney, then people are corporations. That's what happens when you put an equal sign between two terms- you make them equivalent.
Now, corporations spend money to make money. I spend money to make money. They buy or rent buildings for production and storage. I buy or rent buildings for production, or storage.
They need to buy materials and fuel. I need to buy materials and fuel. They need communications. I need communication. They need heating and cooling. I need heating and cooling. They need to upgrade, I need to upgrade. I even need employees of my own. How am I NOT risking my capital?
Now you may claim that some of my expenses are ... well, expensive. But I'm not asking for private jets or cristal champagne or team-building exercises in Cancun, so I guess what's necessary is all in the eye of the beholder, innit?
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Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Geezer: The comparison of corporations to people is not "my" conceit, it is that of the right-wing.
If corporations are people, according to Mtt Romney, then people are corporations. That's what happens when you put an equal sign between two terms- you make them equivalent.
Now, corporations spend money to make money. I spend money to make money. They buy or rent buildings for production and storage. I buy or rent buildings for production, or storage.
They need to buy materials and fuel. I need to buy materials and fuel. They need communications. I need communication. They need heating and cooling. I need heating and cooling. They need to upgrade, I need to upgrade. I even need employees of my own. How am I NOT risking my capital?
Now you may claim that some of my expenses are ... well, expensive. But I'm not asking for private jets or cristal champagne or team-building exercises in Cancun, so I guess what's necessary is all in the eye of the beholder, innit?
This is my very favorite post in a long time! You just won the interwebz, Signy!
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"If corporations are people, according to Mitt Romney, then people are corporations. That's what happens when you put an equal sign between two terms ..."
But in republicanland, some are MORE equal than others.
Remember when teachers, public employees, Planned Parenthood, NPR and PBS crashed the stock market, wiped out half of our 401Ks, took trillions in taxpayer funded bailouts, spilled oil in the Gulf of Mexico, gave themselves billions in bonuses, and paid no taxes?
Yeah, me neither....
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