What's up with TARGET: EPA! ??

POSTED BY: pizmobeach
UPDATED: Friday, December 23, 2011 01:45
VIEWED: 10529
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1KIKI

Friday, August 26, 2011 1:41 AM

You know, they have what's called" secondary recovery" of (sour heavy) crude out of California wells - where they pump hot liquid and chemicals under pressure into the geological structure to get oil back out. And it's all cool until something breaks. Which it does btw. I spent about 60 hours straight analyzing the stuff coming up out of parking garage floors, fire hydrant openings, street manhole coverings etc. That was a big OOOPs on the part of the oil company. And did you hear the one about the gas company? They have these geological structures where they pump natural gas into them under pressure to store locally until they need to draw it out during high demand. Until they pressurize it too much and it breaks, which has also happened here in CA. And THEN, there is one PROVEN case of water table contamination due to fracking.

This whole scenario - breaking geological structures in an unanticipated way - is completely known by those in the biz. The whole idea that it's just a theoretical possibility is pure corporate BS.

And you are just a shill. Or, maybe, abysmally ignorant.

DREAMTROVE

Friday, August 26, 2011 2:26 AM

I might sic my mom on you. She has details on this stuff ;)

Kiki,

Also people's houses blowing up because the basements filled with methane.

Nick,

again, I say, just as a new yorker being familiar with our DEC, it's pretty thoroughly corrupt. If they're trying to cut ahead of the conclusion of the EPA study, you need no science to conclude that it is an action in favor of the gas companies.

That's what a ship is, you know - it's not just a keel and a hull and a deck and sails, that's what a ship needs.

M52NICKERSON

Friday, August 26, 2011 2:27 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
You know, they have what's called" secondary recovery" of (sour heavy) crude out of California wells - where they pump hot liquid and chemicals under pressure into the geological structure to get oil back out. And it's all cool until something breaks. Which it does btw. I spent about 60 hours straight analyzing the stuff coming up out of parking garage floors, fire hydrant openings, street manhole coverings etc. That was a big OOOPs on the part of the oil company.

....and what did you find? Was it ever determined where the "stuff" came from? I ask because you stated "it's all cool until something breaks", does that mean something went wrong and the "stuff" was pumped out of the well through a crack closer to the surface?

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:And did you hear the one about the gas company? They have these geological structures where they pump natural gas into them under pressure to store locally until they need to draw it out during high demand. Until they pressurize it too much and it breaks, which has also happened here in CA.

They do the same with treated water, the problem they are finding is not over pressurizing, but increased Arsenic levels in the water when recovered.

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:And THEN, there is one PROVEN case of water table contamination due to fracking.

Are you talking about methane contamination or contamination from fracking fluids?

If you are talking about fracking fluids you maybe talking about this. http://www.propublica.org/article/does-an-old-epa-fracking-study-provi
de-proof-of-contamination
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=chemicals-found-in-dr
inking-water-from-natural-gas-drilling&page=3
The contamination in Wyoming very well may lead to conclusion that fracking was the cause, in one way of another. Or it may not.

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:And you are just a shill. Or, maybe, abysmally ignorant.

Whats wrong? Don't like people asking questions and challenging your views?

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

M52NICKERSON

Friday, August 26, 2011 2:45 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:

Nick,

again, I say, just as a new yorker being familiar with our DEC, it's pretty thoroughly corrupt. If they're trying to cut ahead of the conclusion of the EPA study, you need no science to conclude that it is an action in favor of the gas companies.

....that maybe so, but that argument will not advance your cause. Unfortunately the burden of proof is on the opponents of fracking.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

1KIKI

Friday, August 26, 2011 3:50 AM

"....and what did you find? Was it ever determined where the "stuff" came from? I ask because you stated "it's all cool until something breaks", does that mean something went wrong and the "stuff" was pumped out of the well through a crack closer to the surface?"

Well, yes, we DID figure out where it came from. It came from an oil company that had over-pressurized the field and broke the rock, the pipes, and the well-casing - and the pressurized oil and extraction fluids, moving up to areas of lower pressure, came out wherever they encountered a surface penetration - alongside pipes and foundations - in downtown LA.

Did you not understand that? I thought it was abundantly clear. Do you need me to use smaller words? Or simpler concepts?

They broke the ground and pushed nasty out.

Got it now?

"They do the same with treated water, the problem they are finding is not over pressurizing, but increased Arsenic levels in the water when recovered."

That's a completely pointless bit. What does that have to do with companies accidentally breaking geological structures by over-pressurizing them? Unless you mean to say that they ALSO accidentally break geological structures with water. In which case - THANKS! - for making my point for me!

As for ground water contamination due to fracking: "Researchers from Duke University added to the debate, publishing a paper in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences that found a correlation between shale drilling activity and the seepage of contaminants, particularly methane, into drinking water wells.[4] "

[4] Methane Contamination of Drinking Water Accompanying Gas-Well Drilling and Hydraulic Fracturing, Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences (Apr. 2011).

So, sit down and shut up, unless you want to further look like a fool, and a tool.

ANTHONYT

Friday, August 26, 2011 4:12 AM

Hello,

I think it may be possible to discuss this, and even disagree, without insulting one another.

Slinging insults is unnecessary when you have good science, logic, and evidence on your side.

--Anthony

_______________________________________________

“If you are not free to choose wrongly and irresponsibly, you are not free at all”

Jacob Hornberger

“Freedom is not worth having if it does not connote freedom to err. It passes my comprehension how human beings, be they ever so experienced and able, can delight in depriving other human beings of that precious right.”

Mahatma Gandhi

1KIKI

Friday, August 26, 2011 4:23 AM

My very bad. I got caught up early in the snark like this: I would read the story of Chicken Little if I w(h)ere you. Shoulda' stepped back and remembered - this is a very small part of my life, which is an infinitesimally small part of the world.

It's just that - I know what happens in the biz by experience. Shit happens. It has happened more than once in my very small area of the world in a very short span of time - less than a half-dozen years. Anyone who tries to pretend like it doesn't is, well ... annoying.

M52NICKERSON

Friday, August 26, 2011 12:21 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
"....and what did you find? Was it ever determined where the "stuff" came from? I ask because you stated "it's all cool until something breaks", does that mean something went wrong and the "stuff" was pumped out of the well through a crack closer to the surface?"

Well, yes, we DID figure out where it came from. It came from an oil company that had over-pressurized the field and broke the rock, the pipes, and the well-casing - and the pressurized oil and extraction fluids, moving up to areas of lower pressure, came out wherever they encountered a surface penetration - alongside pipes and foundations - in downtown LA.

Did you not understand that? I thought it was abundantly clear. Do you need me to use smaller words? Or simpler concepts?

You simply said something broke, you where not specific as to what. It makes a difference that the well casing broke and allowed the fluid to be pumped out much closer to the ground.

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
They broke the ground and pushed nasty out.

Got it now?

Yes, now that you added details above.

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
"They do the same with treated water, the problem they are finding is not over pressurizing, but increased Arsenic levels in the water when recovered."

That's a completely pointless bit. What does that have to do with companies accidentally breaking geological structures by over-pressurizing them? Unless you mean to say that they ALSO accidentally break geological structures with water. In which case - THANKS! - for making my point for me!

The point was that underground storage is not unique to the gas industry, nor are problems with it. Also I have not argued that this type of storage does not breaking geo structures.

Quote:
Originally posted by 1kiki:
As for ground water contamination due to fracking: "Researchers from Duke University added to the debate, publishing a paper in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences that found a correlation between shale drilling activity and the seepage of contaminants, particularly methane, into drinking water wells.[4] "

[4] Methane Contamination of Drinking Water Accompanying Gas-Well Drilling and Hydraulic Fracturing, Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences (Apr. 2011).

Have I at any time stated that I did not believe reports regarding the Methane concamination. No. Perhaps you should know what I'm arguing against before you jump on me.

NIKI2

Friday, August 26, 2011 5:56 PM

Nick, you're buying into the level of discourse, just as Kiki did, and it doesn't gain you any respect. Disagreeing is normal, but HOW we disagree says more about us than any facts or figures we offer. I know you can do better.

As to your remarks being aimed at Nick rather than at me, DT, there is a perfect example of how things that are not aimed or intended for one person can be misunderstood by another; something you've had happen to you.

As to

Quote:
...he has the air of that newly appointed king of the world

And that's how you come across to a good number of US, as has been mentioned previously by myself and others. Trust me, that's not your "former" self, by any means!

You have no problem hurling insults at others, yet are so sensitive to being "attacked", even when there are no attacks there (I'm not speaking of this thread, which has had its share of snarks going both ways).

You said you watched him "talk over others"...how exactly is that possible on a forum? He's free to express his opinion just as you or anyone else is; if what he says or how he says it pisses you off, you have as much right to respond. But if you respond with snarks, expect no sympathy when you complain about being picked on. At least Nick has never done that, and you have, repeatedly.

Anthony is quite right. He tried twice, but seems to have remained unheard, except by Kiki:

Quote:
I humbly submit that this thread has widely deviated from its purpose, and is no longer serving to deepen the wisdom of mankind, nor foster goodwill between fellow humans.

Quote:
think it may be possible to discuss this, and even disagree, without insulting one another.

Slinging insults is unnecessary when you have good science, logic, and evidence on your side.

I'm sure glad you came back, Anthony, you are probably our most civil poster and often act as our conscience, for which I thank you (whether it works or not).

I would love it if we could get back to the ACTUAL original point of this thread, but it may be to late for that, and that's fine. Threads go where they go, but it's sad to see those of us who AREN'T Raptor or Wulf, etc., dive into the gutter.

I will now shut up and stop acting like a mother hen; if nobody wants to hear what Anthony has to say, there's no point in trying further.

Hippie Operative Nikovich Nikita Nicovna Talibani,
Contracted Agent of Veritas Oilspillus, code name “Nike”,
signing off

RIONAEIRE

Monday, August 29, 2011 9:26 PM

I'm civil. ... Most of the time, plus its not like Anthony is the head saint of fireflyfans.net. I agree with him often, but he can be snotty and lack understanding sometimes, just as all of us can.

"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya

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