The Great Jayne Debate!
POSTED BY: kef
UPDATED: Wednesday, December 4, 2002 17:05
VIEWED: 37090
PAGE 14 of 14
One thing I wanna add to this lenghty discussion is a response to the "Jayne rushed them out because he was un-betraying them" theory. Perhaps he was rushing them because he wanted to get it done with because after he saw what they had done to river he was starting to feel bad about it, and in a very Jayne like way he decided the best way to fix that feeling was to just turn them in a get his money 'cause money fixes everything.
-Docebo
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Quote:That's not what happened. I reacted to the way two other people treated ME. And I am now done with this thread.
to get snippy with the entire board just because not everyone agrees with you or changed their opinion
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Thanks to Persephonefor bringing the quote over here: here's what I took from this (although I could be wrong):
Quote:
From: ADAM_BALDWIN 2:36 am
So, I hereby offer to all (with a notable nod to I.L.J. from Fireflyfans.net), the official poop: Jayne never unbetrayed Simon and River, he simply redouble-crossed the low down dirty double-crossing fed who was intending to keep Jayne's "RE-WARD" for himself.
Jayne did in fact change his plans - he re-doublecrossed the agent. Re-doublecross is NOT the same thing at all as fighting to escape after having been caught. The use of the word implies exactly what Delvo has been saying - that there was a change in JAYNE'S plans. What caused him to change his plans? That's a good question. Maybe when he saw the extent of the Alliance evil, he realized that they would be doublecrossing him, and redoublecrossed them instead! But whatever the reason for his "redoublecrossing," what has been distinguished here is not the actions, but the motivations.
Quote:
Jayne is a mercenary after all, but he's our mercenary, and that's why I love the petulant child, "box-dropping man-ape gone wrong, thrillin' he-roics thing," that he is... A work in progress.
In short - he's a mercenary, so we have to understand his motivations from THAT standpoint. BUT... he's "our" mercenary - how does that fit in? I take it that he's got some feelings worth saving him for, but not too much. If I were talking with Jayne right now, and he were explaining to me about re-doublecrossing the ruttin' fed who double-crossed him, I'd be laughing at him (but not outloud!)... I'd be laughing at how much effort is given to amplifying the mercenary part of his character at expense of the part of him that might have felt bad about what he was doing in the first place...
But even if I were wrong about that, and I lived to see the day when Jayne stabbed me in the back without a thought or remorse, I think that Adam's response justifies the belief that Jayne changed plans, and backed out of the betrayal.
************
In fairness to Delvo...there were two responses to his assertion that the response given by AB to this issue didn't change his viewpoint that were slightly pointed - telling someone to "read it again" or stating that "people see what they want to see" is stating unequivocably that there is something wrong with someone who sees it differently. But I'll also point out that the assertion that "that's all there is to it" is rather dismissive of other viewpoints...
In short, can we all just come back to the table, acknowledge that this has gotten a tiny bit heavyhanded, and go back to enjoying the debate?
QT
QueenTiye, Companion Academy, class of 2006
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Quote:
Originally posted by QueenTiye:
In fairness to Delvo...there were two responses to his assertion that the response given by AB to this issue didn't change his viewpoint that were slightly pointed - telling someone to "read it again" or stating that "people see what they want to see" is stating unequivocably that there is something wrong with someone who sees it differently. But I'll also point out that the assertion that "that's all there is to it" is rather dismissive of other viewpoints...
In short, can we all just come back to the table, acknowledge that this has gotten a tiny bit heavyhanded, and go back to enjoying the debate?
QT
QueenTiye, Companion Academy, class of 2006
To me ignoring what Adam said in plain English just to forward your own opinion is the heavy-handed part of this conversation.
I'll tell you what: I'm 100% certain that what Adam MEANT was that a) Jayne never un-betrayed them (because he said so in plain English) and b) the double-cross was in helping get the Tams as well as himself away AFTER he'd betrayed them.
But I'll trot back over to the official board and ask for clarification.
This discussion reminds me of the Andromeda board, where we'd all be arguing about something and Zack or Ash would come on and say "THIS is what I meant when I wrote it" and someone would say "OK" and then go back to arguing the point just as if they'd never said a word.
And BTW, I agree that un-betray is a TERRIBLE word (well, a non-word, actually).
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First, let me offer an apology to Delvo. I certainly didn't mean to offer insult when I said "read it again"; unfortunately, pure text messages sometimes lack the nuances of intonation and meaning that are intended. So, Delvo, I'm sorry! :)
That said, I still don't think that Adam Baldwin was supporting your point of view with his response. All that I intended to impart with my original comment was that perhaps you had seen a phrase and jumped to a conclusion, rather than reading it all the way through.
History doesn't always repeat itself. Sometimes it merely shouts "Weren't you listening the first time?!?" and lets fly with a club.
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Being the idiot who started all this hullaballoo way the hell back when, all I can contribute to the debate at this point is to say that Adam Baldwin's reply answered the question to my own personal satisfaction.
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