Christian Fundamentalists and the Rise of the Radical Right
POSTED BY: Niki2
UPDATED: Tuesday, September 16, 2025 22:02
VIEWED: 9272
PAGE 10 of 15
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In my view, it's pointless doing a body count of who has done what to whom, only that it is sufficient to say that there has been some horrible atrocities committed in the name of religion by extremists, and that therefore we should be wary of a rise in extremist religious views with in our society.
Bingo. That's been the entire point all along. It's not Islam, or Christianity, or Judaism; it's EXTREMISM. Religion is the easiest thing in the world to misuse, because there is always a violent core willing to do ANYTHING in the name of their religion.
The second easiest thing to grab hold of to wind up your base and turn it loose as a virulent mob is nationalism.
"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservatives." - John Stuart Mill
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Originally posted by Bytemite:
Huh. I don't think I ever encountered any Christians who don't believe in hell.
Well most of the Christians I know don't talk about hell, or don't believe that it the sulphur and heat underworld where sinners go. I was brought up in the Catholic religion and even then in those heady post vatican 2 days, they underplayed it. I seem to remember that redemption was a major theme. So yes, there are plenty of Christians out there who don't interpret the Bible literally, and don't believe that there is a fluffy, cloudy heaven and a smoking pit and that we get sent to one or the other after death. I'm figuring that living in Utah, you probably don't come across many of the more liberal Christians, but they would be the norm here and the fundies in a minority.
Quote:It may not affect you, but people describing you as a doom laden sinner because of your beliefs is offensive (even if you choose to shrug it off), and it is even more so if these people actually hold power.
Even still, I wouldn't consider that fundamentalist. I mean, someone yelling at me that I'm of the devil, and going to hell, that's not exactly forcing me to do anything. It doesn't affect me because I don't believe what they do.
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The creationist/Intelligent design thing gets a little closer, but then I realized the only reason they act this way and are pushing for the inclusion is because they feel that evolution has been pushed on THEM. And I think the intrusion has been so offensive to them that they can't even bring themselves to consider the reaction of other religions with no God or creation myth and how alienated they might be.
The history of science has been one of battle with faith, to the point where it has actually held us back from scientific advances, especially if you were likely to be killed for disagreeing with what the all powerful Church said was true. It's one of my major grievances with religion and why I don't really care whether people feel that an evidence based scientific theory intrudes upon their fairytale.
Quote:Byte, it's not like these people are a powerless minority. They hold huge political sway in the US, and the US is the most powerful nation on earth - for the time being. Allow these bozos more power and you'll find yourself pedalling backwards at a rather fast rate.
Ultimately, my thinking is, so long as no one complains, people can do what they want. Then create a safe environment to complain, like people asking to be excused with no repercussions. It's not like they'd be missing anything, and it's not like christian kids haven't left during sex ed or evolution themselves. I figure Intelligent Design simply doesn't matter.
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And sure, I don't really like irrational belief either, but after I got out of highschool, where I was constantly the target of all the Utah mormon christian nonsense and it chaffed at me, I began to realize that there's not a lot of point trying to dissuade people from this.
Why the article isn't aimed at them. It is a warning against them, not for them.
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Originally posted by TheHappyTrader:
Are you even interested in speaking with me, or would you rather talk at me? I haven't insulted your intelligence. If you'd like me to continue to reply, I would appreciate the same courtesy.
Perhaps I'm more forthright in my views, which differ from yours, than you are normally used to. I have been told that Australians can come across as insulting to Americans because of how we speak - usually quite forthrightly. That's all I've intended. I've responded to your posts, vehemently but without intent to insult. I have noticed that you do often get insulted simply by views which do not corrospond to your own, particularly when it comes to religion. And for that I can make no apology.
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I'm not so insecure about science that I feel I have to defend it or else it could blow away in the stiff breeze from a blowhard's mouth.
The past is done. Modern days are different from when religion held sway, I can be openly atheist, and even Christians will generally leave me alone for it, and the country is not so homogenous.
Denying people the option of believing what they want is in violation of that whole pursuit of happiness thing that we talk about so much over here. And focusing too much on the past just leads to desire for (intellectual and real physical) revenge on both sides. Whatever powers they have, they are on the decline, I think. I don't fear a return to the dark ages from religion.
But prudence is not giving them a reason to hold a grudge, if they ever do get power again. That means letting go of our own grudges.
As for them saying I'm going to hell, so they're offensive, so what. Over here you're allowed to be offensive in speech. It still doesn't matter to me because I don't believe in hell.
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Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
I don't fear a return to the dark ages from religion.
I do.
And that whole not giving them a reason falls flat too, since for most of the ones I have dealt with, my EXISTENCE is reason enough - remember what I said about ideologies which feel so threatened by any other alternative they need to crush it ?
Well, when that's one of the core beliefs, written directly INTO the religion itself, I take em as a threat till proved otherwise, and even then remain suspicious, cause of the perfidious nature of the belief itself.
However, also worth bearing in mind - challenging a persons BELIEFS, isn't challenging the PERSON, unless they chose it to be so.
A strong tower of faith withstands all force, but one with weak foundations does need that protection, I suppose.
-Frem
I do not serve the Blind God.
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Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
I'm not so insecure about science that I feel I have to defend it or else it could blow away in the stiff breeze from a blowhard's mouth.
The past is done. Modern days are different from when religion held sway, I can be openly atheist, and even Christians will generally leave me alone for it, and the country is not so homogenous.
Denying people the option of believing what they want is in violation of that whole pursuit of happiness thing that we talk about so much over here. And focusing too much on the past just leads to desire for (intellectual and real physical) revenge on both sides. Whatever powers they have, they are on the decline, I think. I don't fear a return to the dark ages from religion.
But prudence is not giving them a reason to hold a grudge, if they ever do get power again. That means letting go of our own grudges.
As for them saying I'm going to hell, so they're offensive, so what. Over here you're allowed to be offensive in speech. It still doesn't matter to me because I don't believe in hell.
Show me where I am denying anyone the right to believe in what they choose? Really, I must be shocking at getting my views across, if that is what you think I am saying. I support the author's views that the rise of religious extremism is dangerous because of its enmeshment in politics and its sway over politicans. But I agree people are free to believe what they want. I don't oppose Christianity, Islam, Buddhism or any other belief system. I have found value in religious teachings, just don't believe that there is a big Kahuna who runs the universe. And I believe that the separation of power and religion is a sound principle.
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I believe in intelligent design and I've never blown anything up or bullied anyone or any of that, so Magon's a chara, why is not believing in evolution seen as the hallmark of an extremist who is cruising for trouble? And for that matter I do believe in micro evolution, all you've got to do to see that is look at dog breeds or the different kinds of frogs in the same swamp or animals who adapt to new habitats, if you look at the grand scheme of things animals have all had to adapt to changing habitats as the earth's climate has changed over time, if they didn't adapt they didn't make it so the ones with advantageous traits mated and ... you get the picture. It is macro evolution that I don't believe in, the billions of years and starting with a single cell out of nowhere by accident thing. I've never beat anyone up or blown up an abortion clinic, nor would I ever want to, that behavior doesn't solve anything and is just plain old mean. Ew. Am I a fundamentalist? Maybe. I like Niki's use of the word extremist better because it cuts out the middle man idea of believing in the fundamentals vs. being a "fundamentalist" which is a bit of a loaded term in this context. That being said I try not to boss people around about what words they're allowed to use, so if you want to call me a "fundamentalist" then go ahead.
Hitler: Quicko's quotes are indeed there and Hitler did say them. One can ask why: Did he say them because that's how _he believed, or did he say them to get others to come alongside him and get them interested in his cause. I don't know. There's this show on the history channel (which I've not watched) called Hitler and the Occult, which insinuates he was doing some things that I would consider unsavory that Christians tend to steer clear of. But then again he was a horribly evil awful person so none of what he did was something that a real Christian would consider savory or even remotely okay, so the point is moot.
Bottom line: Hitler is scum or the worst ilk, no matter what he says he believes in. Luh suh squared to the Nth power. And on that I think we can all agree.
"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya
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Originally posted by TheHappyTrader:Quote:
* The inerrancy of the Bible
* The literal nature of the Biblical accounts, especially regarding Christ's miracles, and the Creation account in Genesis.
* The Virgin Birth of Christ
* The bodily resurrection and physical return of Christ
* The substitutionary atonement of Christ on the cross
This is a set of beliefs/principles. I don't believe they necessitate an anti-intellectual mindset.
I bolded the first two - if you believe in the inerrancy of the bible and that it is literal, then you believe that we are descended from Adam and Eve a few thousand years ago. You believe that the earth was created in 7 days, and that the earth was created before the sun and the moon and the stars. This is not supported by scientific evidence. If you believe it despite the scientific evidence, then you are anti intellectual.
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Originally posted by RionaEire:
I believe in intelligent design and I've never blown anything up or bullied anyone or any of that, so Magon's a chara, why is not believing in evolution seen as the hallmark of an extremist who is cruising for trouble? And for that matter I do believe in micro evolution, all you've got to do to see that is look at dog breeds or the different kinds of frogs in the same swamp or animals who adapt to new habitats, if you look at the grand scheme of things animals have all had to adapt to changing habitats as the earth's climate has changed over time, if they didn't adapt they didn't make it so the ones with advantageous traits mated and ... you get the picture. It is macro evolution that I don't believe in, the billions of years and starting with a single cell out of nowhere by accident thing. I've never beat anyone up or blown up an abortion clinic, nor would I ever want to, that behavior doesn't solve anything and is just plain old mean. Ew. Am I a fundamentalist? Maybe. I like Niki's use of the word extremist better because it cuts out the middle man idea of believing in the fundamentals vs. being a "fundamentalist" which is a bit of a loaded term in this context. That being said I try not to boss people around about what words they're allowed to use, so if you want to call me a "fundamentalist" then go ahead.
I do not believe that all fundamentalist Christian are terrorists, any more than I believe that all Muslim fundamentalists, or Hasidic Jews are terrorists, but I believe that extremist views can lead to the path of extreme intolerance in society at best, and violence at worst. I find Fundamentalists to be extremists, but I am yet to hear another version of what Fundamentalists are, even though I've been told that what I describe isn't what they understand of the term. Someone enlighten me please.
Intelligent design. I guess its not as bad as straight out creationism, but it's been proven to be incorrect. If we've been designed, then god has done an awful job quite frankly, we're quite flawed, if you think about all the problems we encounter with walking upright and carrying this enormous noggin around - and don't get me started on childbirth - as well as those tricky redundant systems that make it look like we evolved? If he designed us, why didn't he give us wings, and a wider birth canal for that matter.
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Magon's I don't know the answers to those questions. But I can ask him and maybe I'll figure out some theories someday. On a side note, if we weighed just as much as we do now, how big would wings need to be to carry us? Just curious.
If I'd chosen a faerie tale to make up it wouldn't have been this life and all it has in it. It would involve all sorts of interesting pretend things, and possibly air ship pirates. :)
"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya
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