How to win an argument with Liberals-Progressives-Socialists-etc...
POSTED BY: Wulfenstar
UPDATED: Thursday, June 16, 2011 09:23
VIEWED: 32999
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Niki2 wrote: "You only have to look back to ‘Nam to see how many who didn’t fit that description managed NOT to end up in the Army, and it’s still true today because of financial reasons and the fact that those people are disproportionately represented in the penal system, and the Army now takes criminals."
Its probably not the most political thing to say, but I disagree with your sentiment. The military has, traditionally, always taken who they can get. Colin Powell (I believe) once said, that the armed services was the one place where ANYONE can get a fair shake.
Also, as to the idea that minorities are somehow always ending up on the low-end, or getting the short-stick is likewise wrong, in my opinion. The last 2 jobs I've had, both of my bosses were black. They were great, and doing very well for themselves.
There may be something to an over representation of minorities in the penal system. However, that may have more to do with previous convictions than anything dark and sinister.
For example, a young black man getting 10 years for crack, with the intent to distribute. It may seem harsh, until you hear about the 4 other convictions for the same thing.
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Well... Colin Powell is relatively recent, remember, and it wasn't always near as equal as it is now, and it's only really improved in regards to race. If you're a woman or gay, forget about it, they actually kinda don't want you there and only grudgingly tolerate your presence, if that.
Secondly, two contradicting cases is insufficient to overturn precedent, especially when the sampling pool numbers in the millions. Thousands of contradicting cases wouldn't be enough, really.
However, I will give you that there is a chicken or egg argument that could reasonably be had here: do people live in slums because their families have chronically been poor, or do they live in slums because they've been chronically
My guess is that poverty is the main factor for most of the slum issues we hear about (including convictions, which you mention), and slum poverty is not necessarily confined to a single race. Though we can also wonder if demographics in a slum tend towards non-white because of much earlier 1960s and pre-1960s policies and discrimination.
The military largely approaches the poor for recruitment, because often the poor see little other way to get an education and improve their lot in life. So there are a number of poor blacks and latinos, but there's also a number of poor whites as well.
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To NewOldBrowncoat: You missed the entire point by your moronic "Gotcha". What you consider pork barrel, lets say as an example Bobby Jindals remarks on TV about "wasteful spending on monitoring Volcanos", may be "pork Barrel" to someone in Texas or in his case Louisiana, but its sure as hell not in Oregon, or even Wyoming, etc. Is it pork barrel to spend millions on the wetlands and barrier islands in Gulf of Mexico. Hey, I've never lived there no big deal spend the money elsewhere! Right! No you idiot, we are one country and we are all in this together, so what is important to you may not be worth a flip to me, but I want to see the standard of life rise for all Americans, so these things are needed. As to deciding what has to be cut, yes one needs balls, but also which gives us back bang for our buck (Econ 101). Military spending gives nothing back money wise, whereas Social security is spent within the system. Rich people not paying taxes and hiding money overseas, while they shut down plants here and send jobs to India and China are counter-productive. So pork barrle all you want congressmen, just make damn sure the $$$ stay in the USA.
Why is it that people like you just want to stick it to others rather than a real debate? We all have to share in the repair of the debacle left by the previous administration, but not on the backs of the elderly or sick. We do not need to become standard of living wise, a third world country to balance the budget and make Tea Partiers happy. It can be done within the current system if politicians pull their heads out of the *** and stop with the "Gotcha" mentality. You OldNewBrowncoat are in fact part of the problem, not part of the solution.
Lets fix the issues together and stop the schoolyard "Gotcha" mentality.
Terran57
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Quote:
Originally posted by Terran57:
To NewOldBrowncoat: You missed the entire point by your moronic "Gotcha". What you consider pork barrel, lets say as an example Bobby Jindals remarks on TV about "wasteful spending on monitoring Volcanos", may be "pork Barrel" to someone in Texas or in his case Louisiana, but its sure as hell not in Oregon, or even Wyoming, etc. Is it pork barrel to spend millions on the wetlands and barrier islands in Gulf of Mexico. Hey, I've never lived there no big deal spend the money elsewhere! Right! No you idiot, we are one country and we are all in this together, so what is important to you may not be worth a flip to me, but I want to see the standard of life rise for all Americans, so these things are needed. As to deciding what has to be cut, yes one needs balls, but also which gives us back bang for our buck (Econ 101). Military spending gives nothing back money wise, whereas Social security is spent within the system. Rich people not paying taxes and hiding money overseas, while they shut down plants here and send jobs to India and China are counter-productive. So pork barrle all you want congressmen, just make damn sure the $$$ stay in the USA.
Why is it that people like you just want to stick it to others rather than a real debate? We all have to share in the repair of the debacle left by the previous administration, but not on the backs of the elderly or sick. We do not need to become standard of living wise, a third world country to balance the budget and make Tea Partiers happy. It can be done within the current system if politicians pull their heads out of the *** and stop with the "Gotcha" mentality. You OldNewBrowncoat are in fact part of the problem, not part of the solution.
Lets fix the issues together and stop the schoolyard "Gotcha" mentality.
Terran57
You seem to be a little touchy this morning, especially since I started out by AGREEING with you. Which I mostly do about that stuff in the middle there, the nation's socio-economic needs, not balancing the budget on the backs of the poor, military spending, helping others, etc. "Moronic" and "idiot" seem a little harsh.
The point I was trying to make, rather sarcastically, is that the pols justify their "bridges to nowhere" and Lawrence Welk Heritage Museums as vital to security or the NATIONAL economy, when they aren't: and that Opposing pols of both parties love to go "Pork barrel! Gotcha!!", when they've done the exact same thing. Not that I do either one, nor that your suggestions were.
If I wrote something that offended you, that surely was not my intention, and I apologize sincerely.
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...Do you know NewOldBrowncoat? You've only been here a couple of days, and you're already pulling out the "idiot" gun? He was agreeing with you, actually.
I always had the impression that NOBC was rather moderate, if not left wing, which I noticed you were as well. I wouldn't be surprised if NOBC, and indeed most people here would agree with you about monetary spending especially the part where it goes overseas. Imperialism is not good.
But ultimately we're an internet discussion board, not politicians or policy deciders. Hell, a number of us don't even see any point in voting or participating in elections. Most of us are extremely anti-authoritarian and suspicious of anything resembling government and/or big business. We're also pretty suspicious of the partisan interests. We're kinda like herding cats, y'see.
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To NewOldBrowncoat: I cetainly appologize for reading that wrongly. I sent another thread that did not go through again, but what the hell. Anyway, yeah Byte I am new, but thats ok as I will not be on here again. I joined this to talk about Firefly/Science and related real world events, not to listen to Fox News fight MSNBC.
My thread that did not go through discussed my family and the civil war and hoe current events were echoed prior to that conflict, less the internet. We are heading there again.
May your path be true and straight.
Signing off
Terran 57
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Well, thank you, Byte. I think we've disagreed sometimes in the past, politely. Possibly more than we've agreed. Glad to see that your POV on me pretty much agrees with what I think about myself.
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To NewBrownCoat: Thanks for the e-mail. Although not an excuse, I deal with a great deal of pain From a 2000 accident and take alot of oxy. No excuse for not reading it right. Hell, if I am going to jump to wrong conclusions at every little thing then I should just join the Tea Party. :-)
I don't know how many have purchased Redemption. If you haven't, you should. I just watched it. It's not up to studio standards as they needed more cameras and better mic's, but for a fan film it's really good and the story line is pretty good too. Hope they make more.
It beats the hell out of the Star Trek "of Gods and Men" film. Although the trek film had several vetern actors that helped it along. Hmmmm is it blasphemy to mention Star Trek in here?
Again NewOldBrowncoat, thanks.
Terran57
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Terran, you can stay, we like new people and I'm curious about your Civil War thread and sorry it didn't take correctly.
How to win an argument with anyone: Don't start it in the first place.
"A completely coherant River means writers don't deliver" KatTaya
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Terran,
No problem. Always glad to have new Browncoats around. We usually treat 'em to an assortment of virtual FF treats- fresh bao, a round of mudder's milk, etc. You just maybe caught the complimentary load of buckshot.
But I ain't mad, Byte ain't mad, sometimes even family members fight. If RWED is too intense, take a break for a few days, or don't visit it. Plenty a' other stuff to do here.
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